Armalite AR-10 Carbine Vs. M1A Scout Squad


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dodging230grainers
September 11, 2008, 12:20 AM
Ok, thanks for the replies in my other thread with the FAL and the M1A. Hopefully the responses from this thread will help me reach a final decision.

So, please do not suggest a FAL, this is between these two guns only:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=87044

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=85539

Armalite AR-10A4 Carbine and Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad.

Things I like about both, and the rest is up to you guys...

M1A Scout:
Better iron sights, but not by much
Cleaner operating system (no direct gas impingement)
Feels more like a "rifle" than the AR
Less "fragile" than an AR

AR-10A4 Carbine:
Optics (much easier than M1A)
Lighter weight (.308 rifles are heavy enough...)
Familiarity with AR-15 system

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SomeKid
September 11, 2008, 12:22 AM
Links not working.

Snapping Twig
September 11, 2008, 12:33 AM
I'd buy the Garand. Viet Nam soured me on the AR platform, not saying it isn't a good one, saying I personally don't get turned on by it.

Now the Garand, that's a design I like. Simple, accurate and easy to maintain.

What I don't like about the M1 is the weight - far too heavy for what it is IMO.

Loomis
September 11, 2008, 12:43 AM
Forget about the M1A. It's a "has been". the AR10 is a "never was". Save your money and wait for something better. Something like an AR10 that has an AK-like gas system. Any of these are worth waiting for...

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as47-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_Masada

sarduy
September 11, 2008, 12:45 AM
i think that ar are for .223 and M1a for 308 ;)

dodging230grainers
September 11, 2008, 12:47 AM
links work now.

SomeKid
September 11, 2008, 12:51 AM
Of the two posted:

It'd cost more, but I would go with the M1A, minus that optic they show mounted.

I say this as someone who would like to purchase an AR10 someday. The AR10 pictures just is not one I would take over the linked M1A.

kcshooter
September 11, 2008, 12:55 AM
Stoner designed the AR around the 308.

dodging230grainers
September 11, 2008, 12:56 AM
Can anyone confirm that the linked Armalite AR-10A4 Carbine has a weight of only 7.4lbs? It's listed as such on the able ammo website.

On Armalite's website it's listed as 9lbs, the same as the M1A Scout Squad. Where are the AR weight savings?

keep em coming!

Loomis
September 11, 2008, 01:01 AM
I'd hafta say the 9 pound figure is probably correct.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as16-e.htm

Jason_G
September 11, 2008, 01:03 AM
I chose the M1A between the two when put in the same dilemma. I like some things about both platforms, and both have their weaknesses. I suggest you try to handle, if not shoot, both. Decide which one "speaks" to you.

For me, the AR just feels soulless. I didn't have that "this is my rifle" feeling with it. It felt like a toy to me. I am sure others feel differently, and that's a good thing, because variety is the spice of life and all that, but for me, the M1A/M14 platform just felt "right." It felt like a rifle. Like a rifleman's rifle. I know the AR has as many credentials, if not more, than the M14, but I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling with the AR.

So for me, the choice was easy. Yes, matches are dominated by AR's, and yes the M14 is the shortest lived MBR in American history, and yes AR's are more easily accurized... but if the rifle don't do it for you, it don't do it for you.
For me the M14 is a classic and justifiably so, but you may end up feeling that way about the AR or some other platform.

Pick the one that you feel you would enjoy the most.

Jason

sacp81170a
September 11, 2008, 07:02 AM
AR's have superior ergonomics, IMO. I haven't read the other thread you're talking about, but have you considered a DPMS LAR variant? Less expensive than either, yet all the advantages of the AR 10. I have an AR-10 A4C and love it, but I also have a DPMS LAR-308 and an SA M1A. For a go-to brush rifle, the AR-10 is the hands down choice. It's more accurate than my M1A.

huntershooter
September 11, 2008, 07:39 AM
My AR-10 has been totally reliable and is extremely accurate. Will shoot 1.25" @ 100 yds. with milsurp ammo/ iron sights.
The M1A platform has proven to be a bit tempremental IME.

Auburn1992
September 11, 2008, 07:41 AM
I'd probaby choose the M1a, not because of any quality it's just what I'd prefer.

EShell
September 11, 2008, 08:28 AM
I'd hafta say the 9 pound figure is probably correct.Yes, never weighed mine, but I know it's NOT a 7-1/2# rifle. . .

FWIW, the requested comparison isn't really between similar rifles . . . what about a SOCOM 16" M1A?

If optics are desired, I'd suggest the AR-10.

I have an M1A and love it, but anything that pulls your head up above the OEM line of sight kills the "shotgun-like" feel. By the describing the feel this way, I mean the speed and ease in which it comes up on target, and the natural way it points.

The AR-10 isn't quite as smooth for me to mount, but a scope or other optic can be installed to co-witness the OEM line of sight, so the cheek weld remains constant and the rifle handles naturally with either irons or optics. The AR-10 controls are MUCH more convenient and ergonomically placed than the M1A, so once it's up and running, it's easier and simpler to operate from the shoulder.

I personally had trouble making up my mind and eventually got both.

I have a 20" A4 rifle upper and a 16" A4 carbine for my AR-10 and both have been perfectly reliable. I think the 20" barrel is really the ticket for impromptu CQB. The 16" gun is LOUD and the fireball is pretty tough to see past. If I wanted a 16" gun for close work, I'd go to an M4-gery in .223. The 20" version is toned down considerably and does a better job when the ranges get longer too.

H2O MAN
September 11, 2008, 08:40 AM
I had both and sold of the 16.0" AR-10 to fund another 18.0" M14 :evil:

The M14 has much better iron sights and the AR-10 carbine is not much lighter.
18.0" M14s are currently used by our military, AR-10 carbines have never been issued.

gcrookston
September 11, 2008, 08:55 AM
Though not exactly in the catagory of the rifles you list (AR10 carbine, M1a scout), I do have an M1A custom built super-match and an AR10 SASS.

weight: both exceed 10#.
optics: The M1a has a Leupold Mk4 16x fixed power, the SASS has a Burris XTR 3-12. Both are mil-dot
Trigger: Both have two-stage match tiggers
Accuracy: Both have 1:11 match barrels. The Armalite guarantees 1". Both rifles are consistantly 1/2 MOA (and often less).

Which one would I pick if I could have only one? The SASS, but only due to it's ease of maintenance...

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00119.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/dsc00133sv2-1.jpg

dodging230grainers
September 11, 2008, 12:40 PM
On a side note, I have heard that hot 7.62x51 surplus can bend the op rod on the springfield armory guns.

Any truth to that? I have some hot German steel jacketed ammo with the NATO cross, just making sure this won't hurt a M1A Scout op rod. (or an AR-10, though I doubt it would)

H2O MAN
September 11, 2008, 12:47 PM
Maybe some of Springfield Armory reproduction op rods failed, but
USGI and Chinese op rods should be fine with 7.62 NATO rounds.


The reproduction op rod on my Scout Squad bent before firing 160 rounds of Portuguese NATO.
Springfield replaced it with a USGI TRW op rod and I have fired close to 2K problem free rounds.

EShell
September 11, 2008, 12:51 PM
Dunno about SA's M1A op rod, but the original version of the rifle was supposed to accept NATO spec ammo . . .

Armalite makes a big deal about their AR-10 being designed for full power NATO ammo and don't cry & while if it doesn't function with regular (underpowered) .308 ammo.
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2057,%20Ammunition%20Reliability%20030903.pdf

gcrookston
September 11, 2008, 12:51 PM
I've never personally experienced a bent op-rod on either an M1 or M1a, though I have seen it done. I doubt the ammo had much to do with it, but rather lack of proper maintenance and lubrication.

W.E.G.
September 11, 2008, 01:00 PM
Both are excellent rifles.

Get whichever one is warmest/fuzziest for you.

FWIW, it appears that the DPMS magazine is becoming the preferred design for .30 caliber mags in stoner-pattern rifles. Armalite is using something different.

gcrookston
September 11, 2008, 01:10 PM
W.E.G. -- excellent point on the mags. The Armalite mags are about $45.00/piece, modified M14 mags

H2O MAN
September 11, 2008, 01:19 PM
Armalite Gen-II mags are awesome, they are made by CMI - they are not modified M14 mags.

dodging230grainers
September 11, 2008, 01:43 PM
Cool. So is it recommended that I change out the M1A scout op rod with a USGI one asap, or is the stock one okay?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whenever one field strips and cleans an M1A, the op rod should always be properly lubricated and left wet to the touch, sort of like an AR?

H2O MAN
September 11, 2008, 01:51 PM
Your current op rod should be fine, but a back up plan is not a bad idea.

Grease the op rod at the points of contact - I use MD Labs XF-7 weapons lubricant.

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