Trying to decide which compact


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sogarimfire
September 11, 2008, 10:09 AM
Hi guys 'ive been reading these forums for a while and I am already addicted to them LOL Well I am in the market to purchased a CC 9mm or 45.Not wanting to break the bank here.Just a nice reliable pistol I can carry when I need to.How about the Taurus Milinium series? I hear good and bad.Any other I need to consider? Thanks.

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test drive
September 11, 2008, 10:14 AM
check out the compact Bersa in 9mm or 45acp verry reliable and a good price only down point, extra mags are a bit pricey

HoosierQ
September 11, 2008, 10:24 AM
S&W M&P 9c. About $425, two mags (plus two more if that mail in offer is still good) and they are selling them here (Indiana) without the locks. Great ergonomics with the three interchangeable backstraps.

armoredman
September 11, 2008, 11:07 AM
Taurus has a rep for poor customer service, and breakage on some older poly framed pistols. To be perfectly fair, I have not dealt with Taurus in 8 years, so things may have changed.
If you like it, it fits you well, and works every time, go for it.
Now, if you are dead set on Taurus, ignore the following.

CZCZCZCZCZCZCZCZCZ....LOL

My personal choice, bet my life on it everyday.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/czbath.jpg

CountGlockula
September 11, 2008, 11:16 AM
Welcome aboard!

Try a Glock:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/NewG23001.jpg

redneckrepairs
September 11, 2008, 11:22 AM
I have carried for close to 30 years now and the last couple of years settled on Kahrs due to the light weight and slim formfactor . I carry the p or pm series but Kahr does offer the cw series that is more affordable with no loss in utility and little loss in any real features . I had an early mil pro Taurus in .45 and liked it other than the thickness of the pistol . For my ccw comfort thin is in and formfactor of the pistol overrules almost any other consideration. My other semi common ccw choices are HK p7, and 1911.

dontshakepandas
September 11, 2008, 12:32 PM
I would recommend the S&W M&Pc or the Walther PPS.

The M&Pc is available in both of your options, .45 and 9mm, with the 9mm being quite a bit smaller.

The Walther isn't available in .45, but it is in 9mm, and .40 if you decide to look at other options. This pistol is about the same size as the M&P but it is much thinner, and has 3 different size magazines you can swap out to conceal it easier or add more rounds.

I went with the PPS because I have a pretty thin frame, and as one of the younger members here, I tend to wear tighter clothes and can't conceal a double stack very well. The PPS can also be carried in a "larger" pocket, the front pocket of my cargo pants for example.

rocinante
September 11, 2008, 01:46 PM
I have a Taurus PT145 for a month and like it a lot so far although I have only put about 80 rounds (trouble free) through it. Very compact and 11 rounds of 45. As concealable as the comparable glock but without the glock grip angle slant which to me makes it more comfortable and compatible with my other pistols feel wise. Didn't like the sights so I replaced them with Williams Fire Sights.

ice monkey
September 11, 2008, 04:33 PM
My friend has the Taurus in .45. It’s a nice gun but when he first got it, every time he shot it he would hit the mag release. When he asked me to shoot it, I did the same thing. :eek: It was frustrating to say the least. But then after a few 100 rounds he got to handling it so that he wouldn’t release the mag as he shot. Other than that, it’s never jammed or had any failures of any kind – and that’s saying a lot as buddy doesn’t seem to enjoy cleaning his guns. :)

I guess that’s all to say - go out and hold them to see which one “fits.” Welcome to THR.

jocko
September 11, 2008, 05:48 PM
just pretty darn hard to beat the Kahr PM9 for ultimate carry. they go bang every time, super quality, super trigger, all stainless slide and oh yes goes bang every time..

jeepmor
September 11, 2008, 05:54 PM
My PT145 and PT111 both work flawlessly. They are second or third generation DAO pistols. No SA trigger on either of mine. No issues whatsoever with literally 2-3K plus through the each gun, more with the 45 because the 9mm is the wife's pistol.

My neighbor has a Kahr PM40, man it runs sweet. Tiny little gun too. It runs about 50-100 rounds of dirty UMC ball ammo before it starts to hiccup because the buildup gums up the works.

wheel
September 11, 2008, 09:22 PM
Jocko said: "just pretty darn hard to beat the Kahr PM9 for ultimate carry. they go bang every time, super quality, super trigger, all stainless slide and oh yes goes bang every time."

Uhhh..... I've never owned a Kahr, but they certainly don't have a great reputation for reliability. Granted, if you get a "good" one it might be, but there are so many reports of problems. And almost everyone states that even the best ones need a significant break-in period.

Armed 24/7
September 11, 2008, 09:47 PM
A Kahr that goes bang every time? I wish the one that I bought did that. I bought a PM9 (very pricey), and had nothing but problems with it. After the usual 200 round break-in, I still had problems. I called Kahr, and they suggested a longer break in! I sold it after about 400 FTE filled rounds, bought another Glock, and never looked back...

chupacabrah
September 11, 2008, 10:07 PM
bersa UC in 9mm or .45

My m&p is good, one in compact would be nice. either caliber would work great, whatever you shoot best and are able to practice with is what you should go with

357sigRog
September 11, 2008, 10:36 PM
Give the Glock some thought, the 26 is nice and if you want a little more
umph get the 33. Bersa also makes a good 9 for a reasonable price.

Exmasonite
September 12, 2008, 12:31 AM
Springfield XD .45 Compact... 4" barrel with the short compact grip. 10+1 or 13+1 capacity depending on the mags.

also, the 9mm subcompact with 3" barrel is a VERY nice gun.

modifiedbrowning
September 12, 2008, 12:57 AM
Bersa Thunder 9 or .45
Walther P99 Compact
Walther PPS

searcher451
September 12, 2008, 09:49 AM
+1 on the Walther P99C. It's a great gun, easy to conceal, and 100% reliable. The little buggers are amazingly accurate. You also can turn it into a close-to-full-sized P99 with a magazine extender ($20 from Earl's) and a 15- or 16-round capacity magazine ($39 at CDNN Sports) ... a neat little trick for range work.

jocko
September 12, 2008, 10:02 AM
just where are all these many negative reports on the kahrs??Humm, I'm all over the gun forum, I sure don'tsee what you are saying. My two kahrs have never needed 200 rounds break in out ofthe box. they have performed flawlessly since I got them. (PM9 14,600 rounds, K9 3500 rounds) I read that alot to. they are no more issue guns than other guns made out there. For sure some give issues and if one is disleased with his kahr or smith or ruger, sell it and move on. You just seem to insinuate that kahrs are very problematic and that is pure B.S.

and now ur hear shooting ur mouth off and YOU DON'T EVEN OWN A KAHR.

benderx4
September 12, 2008, 10:10 AM
+1 on big time problems with Kahr. Seems like it's either hit or miss with these guys. (Kinda like Keltec) You either have problems, or they work flawlessly. But in my case, from day one, mine never worked properly - a stovepipe factory. Sent back twice, new mags, different ammo - didn't matter. I probably got one made on a Friday afternoon but it definitely was a lemon.

However, as many bad reports you hear about them, you hear as many glowing reports so go figure.

The Bushmaster
September 12, 2008, 10:15 AM
Just purchased and have ran 500 rounds through a Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II in .45 ACP...I'M SOLD!!!

jocko
September 12, 2008, 10:25 AM
ITS THE INTERNET. More trolls running aroundon these forums than you can shake a stick at. They can and will post just to be posting. They wil lhammer the product of conversation at that time just to be hammering. If one pays alot of attentiion to the reports on these gun forums, he will never own a handgun, for all in the eyes of some are just POS guns.

My advice is to shoot a gun that you think you want to own. They are out there and can be found and shot. Do your own research, Don't rely on people like me braggin to hell about how good kahrs are or someone knocking a kahr that has never owned one. Do your own research, If you think the Glocks are superior to others, buy um, don't pay any attention to no glocksters. It's ur money, it's ur life when you stick that gun in your pocket. If you buy totally by price and quality, normally you will get a damn good quality gun. If you buy by price only, well you get what you pay for. I read also of $1000 guns giving many issues. I can only speak for my $900 Para Carry 9, loved it to death, It just never worked reliable for me after 3 times back but yet I read bragging reports on that Carry 9. It just happens. they are all still made by machine and man and combined will give issues....

Lets not totally brag on Glocks being perfect. I love my G19, geos bang every time.
but you might want to ask the Indiana state police why when they went to the glock 22 that they had so many issues that glock came in and exchanged every one of them for the G17,which to this day they carry and love. IT JUST HAPPENS.

kitsapcharly
September 12, 2008, 03:43 PM
You'll get many answers and no two alike. All guns have cheerleaders and haters. My personal experience is with Kel-Tec, Bursa, Taurus, Springfield Armory XD-45c and now an EAA Witness (Tanfoglio) 45/22 convertible.
The first thing to note is that since people's hands differ a lot in size and shape the gun that fits one hand just right may not fit another very well. It's one thing to hold a gun fairly well but something else entirely to have it point straight naturally...then, there's the issue of not rocking it off aim with trigger pull and related issues. You can take two very good guns and find your accuracy is good with one and bad with the other. you may need to modify your shooting in various ways or add a little tape or something to pad out a part of a grip.
The other big point with autos is that they can be veerrry picky about ammo. Two guns of the same make and model may not always work too well with the same ammo.
These things mean all pros and cons are highly subjective.
I have a little taurus 22 that runs perfectly but when I bought a look-alike in 25 it was the worst lemon ever passed off as a firearm...don't knw why but so many different things went wrong it seemed to be haunted. :cuss:
Taurus customer service is so slow it took months to come back. The 22 still seems nice but I couldn't in good conscience recommend them to anybody. A complete crapshoot.
In contrast, both Bersas I have run happily and their customer service is what customers always dream about. Excellent first gun for a beginner.
Kel-Tec also has wonderful customer service. Their little p-3ATs are with me when nothing else can be. You could almost hide one in a g-string. :eek:
The Springfield Armory XD-45c is the gun I shoot best of any. It points as if it was my index finger. If I lower it down, look away and point it in the direction of a target the sights are level and pointed about where I would want them to go. You can try this with varying guns and see which point naturally for you. It also doesn't seem to pull off target or rock any when I fire if I don't forget myself and jerk it. It just simply works well in my hands which are about average/medium. It's my favorite gun to fire and I can carry it all day in a SmartCarry. Customer service is good at SA.
The EAA Witness is too new to give more than a preliminary report. Seems very well made. With 45 top I fired off both magazines for a total of 20 shots without trouble. With 22 top I fired about 120 to 150 shots using both mags and had 2 or 3 failures to feed which isn't bad at all. 22 is usually hard to feed through autos and occasional ailure to feed is about normal with most of them. Still, this gives me cheap target practice for both the Witness and other similar guns. Grip is very much like XD-45c and I'll probably like this gun well. Design is based on the CZ and made in Italy by Tanfoglio. Customer service does not have a great reputation but may be improving.
Try to rent shooting range guns if you an in your area. They're often worn and likely dirty so they probably won't be as reliable as a clean gun but will let you get the feel of shooting them. A 45 really won't hurt you and the slow recoil doesn't bother me nearly as much as a 9MM or even a 380 which snap sharply but others feeldifferently. 9MM, 40 and 45 all have about the same power but bigger is more effective than smaller. You can get lighter bullet loads in45 that feel not too much different than the others.
Read bersatalk and the XDforum plus the ktrange and ktog. See what owners say and take anything too pro or anti with a grain of salt. You might do this first before starting to rent at a range. Don't be too impressed with what "official" guns are adopted by military or police. There are political stories about military issue and police often get guns at wholesale or possibly less from companies that know if their guns are carried by the "pros" they can sell a ton of them to the rest of us. Lots of off-duty cops carry something way different than duty guns. You'llfind many on the forums.
Get ahold of something and send a few down range. :)

PX15
September 14, 2008, 09:52 AM
JMOfartO:

FOR THE MONEY I think Bersa/Firestorms are the best firearms value for the buck..

Extra mags are pricey, and the finish is not top notch, but all you have to do is regular maintenance and the finish is fine.

Other than that the two Bersa's I had (BT9/UC & Firestorm FS22) were excellent pistols.. Actually the Bersa was as accurate as any pistol I've ever owned, other than the HK P7.

Lifetime warranty, and would probably only run $300-350 to buy new.

I highly recommend the BT9/UC.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

Lookn4Brass
September 14, 2008, 05:37 PM
I'll have to agree with jocko. Well said. Please get out there and shoot as many guns as you can. Another idea too: find out if there's a good full-time gun range in your area with someone on duty on the premises during the day. Go buy yourself a box or two of factory ammo for 9mm and .45 - target ammo for now, not the expensive, small boxed protection ammo yet. Some Remington UMC or Winchester USA brand is a good value at most places. Phone the range person, tell them what you would like to do (shoot some various guns) and ask them if they know of any members who might be willing to let you supply the ammo and shoot a bit. Please remember that everyone is going to have their own biases and opinions. Shoot some pistols and decide what YOU like. A few boxes of ammo and some time spent is alot cheaper than taking a big hit in the $$wallet for buying a gun (or two) that you don't want to shoot or don't feel comfortable with. OH yeah... keep it fun, and make notes about what you like or don't like. Good luck!

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