Small 9mm Kel-tec vs Kahr


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GunLvrNLearner
September 12, 2008, 02:36 AM
Which do you prefer in a small 9 a Kel-tec or Kahr

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slashsplat
September 12, 2008, 03:27 AM
Rohrbaugh R9.

loop
September 12, 2008, 05:14 AM
I'm not interested in 9mm, but if you are asking whether I'd rather have a Kahr in my pocket or a KT the answer is Kahr. They cost three times as much and are worth three times as much.

Redlg155
September 12, 2008, 05:41 AM
I've owned both brands and I'd rather have the Kahr. Kahrs can be a little finicky until broken in, but after a couple hundred or so rounds you are usually good to go.

With the Kel Tec the quality can be a bit "quirky" at times. The one P32 I owned had the mag release assembly fall out of the weapon during the first range session. I accidently left it in a damp place and forever ruined the blue job. No amount of cold blue woulf fix it. I could never get past a couple of mags without a stovepipe jam. I did the fluff and buff treatment and finally just lost confidence. I eventually sold it to someone more patient than I will full disclosure of the problems. Would Kel Tec fix the weapon to my satisfaction if I had chosen to do so? Absolutely.

The crazy thing is that I now own a Kel Tec P380 that hasn't given me one tiny bit of trouble. I don't trust all Kel Tecs, I just trust my own individual gun.

To be fair, I've heard of positive things about the 9mm Kel Tecs. Still, for a qood quality weapon with a excellent trigger, it's hard to beat a Kahr.

jocko
September 12, 2008, 08:10 AM
loop, I disagree. how about 5 times :)

SureThing
September 12, 2008, 08:40 AM
Kahrs are over priced IMO. Being that said, I would rather have the Kahr, but would probably buy the Kel Tec. I don't have deep pockets.

The new Taurus Slim that is coming out, may be the ticket.

tinygnat219
September 12, 2008, 09:27 AM
Rohrbaugh R9.

I am not sure if I could own an 1100 dollar gun that couldn't fire +P ammo and needed a new recoil spring after 100 rounds.

mjrodney
September 12, 2008, 09:32 AM
I stopped into a local dealer yesterday and looked at the Rohrbaughs.

Just for a second.

The price tag was more than $1400. :eek:

jocko
September 12, 2008, 10:07 AM
You can find the kahr cw9 for alittle over $375. I sure do't consider that overpriced..

WC145
September 12, 2008, 10:09 AM
Had a Kel-tec PF-9, liked it alot, no troubles with it after replacing the plastic mag release button with a metal one, but found that I couldn't fit my finger in the trigger guard with gloves on. I traded the PF-9 away and bought a Kahr CW9 to replace it. The kahr is a little bit bigger and heavier (and has a much more space in it's trigger guard) but clearly a higher quality weapon plus it is stainless. The Kahr is easier to shoot and more accurate (for me anyway) and I've had zero malfunctions with it from the first round.
I paid around $280 for the PF-9 and $400 for the Kahr, it is well worth the extra money.

I still have two Kel-tecs, a P3AT and a 9mm SUB-2000, and they a great guns.

Dollar An Hour
September 12, 2008, 12:54 PM
PM9 all the way!

lazyeye
September 12, 2008, 12:56 PM
PM9.
Owned the Kel-Tec, it wasn't reliable enough.

Papaster
September 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
I haven't shot the 9mm, but I've shot the P3AT, and while I realize there are better, by far, ergonomics on the PF9, I still far prefer my wife's CW9. I got it for around $400 out the door, and it's one of the sweetest triggers I've got. Certainly the best double-action I've got on a Semi-Auto. I highly recommend the Kahr.

MrAnteater
September 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
I owned two Kahr's and they were a huge disappointment. Constant jamming and one kept dropping the magazine. Not to mention the hefty price tag. I would never own anything made by Kahr again.

I own a Kel Tec P11, P32, and P3AT. The P11 and P32 are 100% reliable with all ammo. The P3AT is also reliable but touchy on ammo brands.

I would look at the Kel Tec PF9. It has a little less magazine capacity than the P11 but is thinner and has a lighter trigger pull.

philbo
September 12, 2008, 02:00 PM
Kahr. CW9, P9, PM9. All more expensive than Keltec and worth every penny.

Defensory
September 12, 2008, 10:18 PM
One more vote for Kahr. I avoid GarbGuns (Garbage Guns) such as Kel-Wreck and Low-Point, like the plague.

Kahr, like every other handgun manufacturer, has produced some lemons in their time. However, their overall quality control, reliability and track record---is still markedly better than that of the GarbGuns.

As others in this thread have stated, Kahr's cost more, and are worth every extra cent.

mwells
September 12, 2008, 10:47 PM
My Kahr pm-9 has been a fantastic pistol. I trust it to go bang when I need it. No experience with the Kel-Tec, but I would buy another PM-9.

Armed 24/7
September 12, 2008, 11:06 PM
I sold my Kahr PM9, and was happy to be rid of it. Mine was an overpriced POS, in my opinion. I will never waste my money on another one.

dontshakepandas
September 12, 2008, 11:52 PM
Of the two choices I would take the Kahr. I had to make a similar choice a few weeks ago and I went with the Walther PPS, if you haven't looked into them you should. It is kind of an uber thin baby glock.

usp9
September 13, 2008, 12:07 AM
I paid $328 for my Kahr CW9 at a gun show. That's got to be real close to the Keltec 9 price. The Kahr has been a good, reliable shooter, surprisingly capable. I carry a HK but the little Kahr is impressing me.

I paid $375 for a used K9 that was a great gun too. Kahrs can be had for decent prices compared to the Keltecs.

Dan-O
September 13, 2008, 12:11 AM
Kahr PM9

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2509.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2506.jpg

Mountie855
September 13, 2008, 10:53 PM
Have 3 KelTecs- (2) P3AT's, (1) P11- all reliable right out of the box, as were the (2) P32's and a previous P11. Accuracy not outstanding, but adequate.

Also have a PM9094N Kahr- 3 trips to the factory before it shot to POA and functioned reliably. Now, however, it is more accurate than the Kel Tecs, and so far, 100% reliable, though it has only seen maybe 200 rounds since the last trip to the factory. The Kahr trigger is a lot nicer than the KT's.

Kinda went back to the 640/357 and 642/38...just trust them more. Wife still uses a P3AT, lighter and easier to keep out of sight at her business.

guntotinguy
September 13, 2008, 10:57 PM
Kahr or Bersa 9...

MCgunner
September 13, 2008, 11:02 PM
I've got a 100 percent reliable and very accurate P11 I've been carrying for 12 years. I ain't spending 3 times the price for a gun that will not do the job any better, or even 50 dollars more. The KT is proven and I trust it. The gun will put five rounds into 3.5" from a rest at 25 yards and knock down 6" plates off hand all day long. Do what you will, and you know what opinions are like....:D I've got over 11,000 rounds though that KT, though, and it has never failed me, not even once, not even one jam. I've fed it all manor of cheap 115 FMJ, 105 grain lead SWC cast reloads, and carry it with 115 grain Hornady XTP/JHPs loaded to 1263 fps.

I've heard bad reports of Kahr service, none for KT, lifetime warranty. I've heard just as many complaints of the Kahr, maybe more than the P11. Only gripes I've heard on KT were the PF9 and they've been out long enough now to have the bugs worked out. Kel Tec has the absolute best customer service and warranty between the two, one of the best in the industry. Keep your Kahrs, I'll carry my junk. :rolleyes:

buenhec
September 14, 2008, 04:14 AM
I sold my KT's after repeated problems and trips to the manufacturer. My Khar MK9 has been flawless and a great carry piece.

brett30030
September 14, 2008, 09:56 AM
GarbGuns (Garbage Guns) such as Kel-Wreck and Low-Point

Brilliant:neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener:

Racinbob
September 14, 2008, 01:27 PM
My PM9 was the most unreliable gun I've ever purchased. After 386 rounds and about 50 problems I sent it back to Kahr. I wasn't happy about them refusing to cover the shipping ($58.00) but I had no choice. I had it back 5 days later with a new barrel, extractor and rebound spring plus some polishing. That's some fast service but I have yet to fire it. That will happen later this week. I love the size and feel of the PM9 but it will take some doings to build my confidence in it. In the mean time it's my 66 for pd until I get my hands on a pre-lock 60. Hopefully I'm on to what sounds like a nice one and priced fair for the both of us. If you go with a PM9, shoot it a lot before you stake your life on it. If you get a good one or if Kahr makes it good, I think they can be outstanding. If not, it could get you killed.

buenhec
September 14, 2008, 01:52 PM
That is why I got the MK9, same as the PM but in metal and reliable.

skers69
September 14, 2008, 02:20 PM
I have been looking at Kahr myself. They look like a good pocket gun. That being said I kind of like my G26 better than both of your choices.

rbernie
September 14, 2008, 02:59 PM
I have shot a CW9 and a PF9 and a P11. The CW9 was the nicest piece by far, and well worth the extra $$. The P11 had a decent feel but the trigger was bad without work. The PF9 was a literal pain to shoot due to its thin profile, but had a better trigger than the P11. The CW9 was as comfortable to shoot as the P11 with a better out-of-the-box trigger and far better fit-n-finish.

As an aside, I bought a clean used CW9 for the same cost as a new PF9 or P11. Dollar for dollar, it's not even a close debate.

krs
September 14, 2008, 03:23 PM
I had a PM9 and liked it fine but sold it because it was excess here and it's grip was too small around for me to hold in a repeatable way.

I've played around with all of the Keltecs and still have a P11, a 3Pat, and a P32. They keep working fine and are a great gun for the money. But they're triggers all bite my finger no matter what I try. The .380 is the worst - that little sucker is downright painful to shoot. I probably need finger surgery or something 'cause my trigger finger gets pinched between the guard and the trigger every time I fire Keltecs. Other than that they are surprisingly accurate and the P11 hasn't missed a beat in over four years - probably more than 500 rounds.

M2 Carbine
September 14, 2008, 03:23 PM
I've had the 9mm/40S&W Kel Tec since they first came out.
Although I don't carry it because I prefer 45ACP (Kimbers) I wouldn't hesitate to carry the P-11.

I've looked at buying a Kahr a number of times, just because, but IMO they are too expensive.
But then I've never seen a Kahr for $329 like the deal usp9 got.:)

denfoote
September 14, 2008, 09:18 PM
MK9 for me.

My PF9 is on the fritz again and I don't have the ready cash to send it in, so it sits!!

single stack
September 14, 2008, 09:47 PM
Between the Kahrs and the KelTecs it appears that
the Kahrs are in the lead in this poll.
With a little deeper look it also appears that your
selection will be a good choice or a stinker with either.

Love 'em or hate 'em.

SS

DZL HOG
September 14, 2008, 10:20 PM
Another vote for the PM9 here. I did have about 3 FTFs early on. No probs lately at 323rds, and its still tight. I had not shot it in about a month, so I ran a couple mags through it Friday afternoon. Im going to take a CCW class in Oct and plan to see how the PM9 will perform. I took a tactical class a couple weeks ago, but only used the XD and CZ. So I think it will benefit me to use the gun that I actually carry. I do carry the XD some.

Im getting ready to change the PM sights for Big Dots and pickup a couple extra mags for the class and an IWB holster.

Browns Fan
September 15, 2008, 12:36 AM
On saturday, we had a BUG side match after our IDPA match. A friend let me borrow his PF9, I'll have to say, it's now on my short list. Shot very well, recoil was manageable.

gbelleh
September 15, 2008, 01:33 AM
I've had both and they both worked well and served as good carry guns. These small guns don't allow much room for error, so Kel-Tec and Kahr can produce some lemons. Either will have to be tested and proven reliable.

MCgunner
September 15, 2008, 10:23 AM
On saturday, we had a BUG side match after our IDPA match. A friend let me borrow his PF9, I'll have to say, it's now on my short list. Shot very well, recoil was manageable.

I've snot my P11 a couple of times at IDPA shoots and did rather well with it. It was a little slower to acquire sights on, they're so short in radius, but it's very accurate. I impressed a few shooters with it who would normally call such a gun (or any polymer non-1911) plastic junk. Don't like it, fine, but I'm well armed with mine. :D My choice, my gun. If you think the Kahr is any better, you delude yourself.

jocko
September 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
I guess I "delude myself..

krs
September 15, 2008, 01:44 PM
The little polymer Kahr with non dovetailed sights, CW9 or CM9 or something like that is sold for under $400. It's the same gun as a PM9 but lacks features. My PM9 was the black slided night sighted version and Kahr charges pretty high prices for black and for NS.

So don't judge them by price until you're familiar with their pricing because it ranges pretty far between models and versions of models at MSRP, and the sellers don't get MSRP for them.

45crittergitter
September 26, 2008, 04:14 PM
Having had both, I like both, but would probably pick the Kahr if it fit the particular pockets I was gonna carry in.

dairycreek
September 26, 2008, 08:15 PM
What is your purpose for choosing the gun? I have owned both and shot both and, for me, both were dead bang reliable. Accuracy for a small gun was acceptable for both. The Kahr did, in fact, cost about 4-5 times that of the Kel-Tec. If you want a gun for carrying. Both are good choices. If cost is an issue then the Kel-Tec wins hands down. Your choice:neener:

orionengnr
September 26, 2008, 08:46 PM
Having owned four Kel-Tecs (note the use of the past tense) and one PM9 (my every day carry for 9 months of the year for the last three years and thousands of rounds) it's a pretty simple choice for me.

Yes, my PM9 was within the suspect s/n range and suffered from the dreaded barrel peening. I talked it over with Dottie and sent back the slide, barrel, recoil spring via USPS Priority Mail for about $5 (since I did not send the frame, this is legal). Kahr sent back all new parts within a week and it's been great ever since.

loop, I disagree. how about 5 times
Guess I don't shop where you do...or one of us is bad at math. :neener: Around here, K-T PF9 or P-11 is $275-300. My Kahr PM9 was less than $600. My PM9 is worth more than all four of the K-Ts that I sold, simply because it works...

Rustynuts
September 27, 2008, 08:37 AM
Realistic street prices for Kahr is only 2-3 times the KT, not 3-5 as stated. Still the Kahr is WAY more gun than the KT and would be my choice. Although I carry a P3AT and have a PF-9. I'm waiting for the Kahr P380, or may switch to a PM-9 later. The P3AT is just so easy to carry though! I also have the steel framed Kahr MK40 which is also a dream. Too heavy for pocket carry, but goes nice in a holster.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/familypics006-5.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/familypics008-3.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/familypics-4.jpg

akluvr
September 27, 2008, 09:02 AM
Both are good guns. I had the PM 9 and like others had to go to the MK series. They are good guns, but can be pricey unless you fall into the right deal. I also own the KelTec PF9. I carry it every day. It is light, and mine has about 400 error free rounds through it. WWB, Hydra's, Pow'r ball, it eats them all, and is surprisingly accurate. I shot my Keltec and my father-in-laws CW9 side by side, and I prefer the Keltec. It was more controllable, and more accurate- for me. You really need to set up a time to do the same thing yourself, shoot them side by side. Both companies have problems from time to time, so it's luck of the draw with the guns. I am one of the lucky ones that got a great Keltec. I would and have take(n) it anywhere. I highly recommend the Pow'r ball round when you do choose either one. GREAT round.

Charles S
September 27, 2008, 10:09 AM
I have own both Keltec's and Kahrs both are good guns and have their place. If you are comparing the polymer framed version of both guns I do think the Kahrs are a little nicer and are worth the extra money.

When you step up to the steel framed Kahrs I think you are in a different realm. The steel framed Kahrs (for me) require a holster for carry because of their weight, not their size. They are very durable and very user friendly for a small gun. I have shot a couple of classes where I put about 1000 rounds through a K9 in a 2 day class. One just cannot do that (I cannot) in a small polymer framed gun. My hand was pretty sore with a steel framed gun.

I lean toward the polymer framed Kahr for pocket carry, although I probably carry my P32 more than any other gun when I am just running up to the grocery store.

jocko
September 27, 2008, 10:37 AM
Kahr any day, every day, like comparing apples and oranges..

rbernie
September 27, 2008, 07:28 PM
Around here, K-T PF9 or P-11 is $275-300. My Kahr PM9 was less than $600. And a CW9 is $400 NIB and $300 used.

Today I ran another box o' ammo thru my CW9. I bought it for the princely sum of $325, and it has been 100% since I picked it up.

If you think the Kahr is any better, you delude yourself.The trigger on my CW9 is far better (smoother, lighter) than any fluffed-n-buffed PF9 or P11. That's not delusion; it's a fact. Does that make a KT a POS? Of course not. But I pick up a CW9 and a P11 and I see more than a $100 worth of better in the CW. YMMV.

EHL
September 27, 2008, 09:02 PM
I'd go Kel tec. I shot my brothers 9mm kahr and that thing was both inaccurate and failed to slide lock after the last shot twice in the same shooting session.:eek:
I think Kahr is a decent company but if you happen to get one of these lemons, Kahr is not known for their great customer service like Kel tec is.;)

pap1105
September 27, 2008, 09:16 PM
i dont own a kahr but my pf9 works fine but i had to put houge hand all jr. on it to control recoil. very accurate.

Legionnaire
September 27, 2008, 10:21 PM
I've owned two P11s, and both were very good guns for the money. I never got used to the long, heavy trigger, even after a complete fluff 'n buff per ktog.org. The magazines also rattled when fully loaded; never could get that solved.

In contrast, I really like the Kahr PM9. Bought mine second hand, and it has functioned perfectly. Great package. So I chose the Kahr over the Kel-Tecs.

That said, I handled a PF9 the other day, and I must say that that single stack 9 feels far better than the P11 ever did. Would like the opportunity to shoot one.

Defensory
September 27, 2008, 10:38 PM
Perfect Pocket Protection

The abbreviated Kahr 9mm PM9 could render most .380 autos obsolete.

"Enter the PM9, a concealed-carry pistol for the millennium. It fires any kind of 9mm Luger ammo, remains simple to operate, fits in a 5 1/2 x 4-inch box and weighs 16.9 ounces empty. Kahr's new pistol is smaller than any contemporary pocket auto of serious power. Some of the popular .25s and .32s are smaller than the PM9, but they're not adequately powerful for defensive applications.

There are also plenty of comparable-sized .380 autos that are easily miniaturized because of their blowback systems. But in my view, .380s are not even marginally powerful for personal defense, as some contend. By virtue of its power and small size, the PM9 virtually obsoletes the pocket .380s."

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/Perfect+Pocket+Protection?packedargs=pagenum%3D1
....

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