another okie
September 7, 2003, 07:39 PM
cleaning three guns afterward.
The problem with 3 gun matches is...
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Carnitas
September 7, 2003, 10:23 PM
I thought the problem was that every other kind of shooting seems a bit boring in comparison.
lycanthrope
September 8, 2003, 12:11 AM
I thought it was chunking out the $3000 for 3 guns and mags........
Not that I need any help WITHOUT having a reason......
Not that I need any help WITHOUT having a reason......
Zak Smith
September 8, 2003, 12:56 AM
The problem with 3Gun for me is:
1. Now I want to shoot 3Gun all the time,
2. I want a $2200 JP CTR-02, and a $3000 Limited pistol ($2k gun, figure $1k for mags)
Damn!
I don't clean my guns so much anymore. The Benelli should run for years without cleaning. My RRA AR-15 seems to run very clean and has never malfunctioned. The only cleaning I do on the 1911 is to take the slide off and wipe the grime off the frame every few weeks. The Titegroup I'm shooting seems to leave a distinctive residue.
-z
1. Now I want to shoot 3Gun all the time,
2. I want a $2200 JP CTR-02, and a $3000 Limited pistol ($2k gun, figure $1k for mags)
Damn!
I don't clean my guns so much anymore. The Benelli should run for years without cleaning. My RRA AR-15 seems to run very clean and has never malfunctioned. The only cleaning I do on the 1911 is to take the slide off and wipe the grime off the frame every few weeks. The Titegroup I'm shooting seems to leave a distinctive residue.
-z
Hoser
September 8, 2003, 12:18 PM
The thing I dont like about 3-gun matches is I have to get to the range by 6:00AM to start setting up. By the time the shooting starts I am usually fried and end up shooting like a girl.
I do like shooting other peoples matches when I am just a shooter and not heavily involved with setting up and running things.
Cleaning? You mean we are supposed to clean these things?
I dont clean my STI but once every 1,000 rounds or so. I clean my JP rifle about the same. I clean my 1100's often as I shoot a lot of skeet and trap with it also.
Powder selection and not shooting lead (pistol) has a lot to do with keeping things clean.
I do like shooting other peoples matches when I am just a shooter and not heavily involved with setting up and running things.
Cleaning? You mean we are supposed to clean these things?
I dont clean my STI but once every 1,000 rounds or so. I clean my JP rifle about the same. I clean my 1100's often as I shoot a lot of skeet and trap with it also.
Powder selection and not shooting lead (pistol) has a lot to do with keeping things clean.
Correia
September 8, 2003, 12:39 PM
Hoser, that is why at our matches we set up Friday night. :D
I usually shoot an 870 for SG, a Vepr or a FAL for rifle, none of which needs much cleaning. My pistol gets cleaned about every 500 rounds or so, but I use lead reloads.
Shooting is fun. Cleaning sucks.
The bad thing about 3 gun? Hmm... If you ask my wife I'm pretty sure the downside would be that my duties around the home get neglected. And I spend too much money on it. :)
I usually shoot an 870 for SG, a Vepr or a FAL for rifle, none of which needs much cleaning. My pistol gets cleaned about every 500 rounds or so, but I use lead reloads.
Shooting is fun. Cleaning sucks.
The bad thing about 3 gun? Hmm... If you ask my wife I'm pretty sure the downside would be that my duties around the home get neglected. And I spend too much money on it. :)
Andrew Wyatt
September 8, 2003, 05:41 PM
Working at them for 15 years and never getting to shoot in them.
Skunkabilly
September 8, 2003, 05:45 PM
...living in an apartment complex with scarce parking and hauling your gear to the car.
I must be carrying 2/3 my body weight in ammo and guns.
I must be carrying 2/3 my body weight in ammo and guns.
Andrew Wyatt
September 8, 2003, 05:49 PM
Shooting is fun. Cleaning sucks.
I don't know if it's the engineer in me, but I like the cleaning as much as the shooting.
I don't know if it's the engineer in me, but I like the cleaning as much as the shooting.
Correia
September 8, 2003, 06:01 PM
Andrew, in that case you are more than welcome to come over and clean my guns anytime. :)
RM
September 10, 2003, 11:49 AM
The problem with three gun matches is : WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? I live in Maryland, and would like to see one. So far, I have been unable to find one anywhere in my area. (Also would travel to SE Pa.) Oh well, I will keep looking.
gl
September 10, 2003, 02:02 PM
.........That I can't shoot them everyday!
stipilot
September 10, 2003, 06:13 PM
The problem with three gun matches is : WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? I live in Maryland, and would like to see one.You don't want to watch one, you want to shoot one! ;)
Actually, depending on the COF, 3-gun type rifle can be pretty boring to watch. You generally can't see the hits and because of the distance, scoring takes a long time because of people walking back and forth from 100+ yd. targets. Shotguns on steel is exciting though.
In PA, York IWLA IPSC has either 3-gun or 2-gun (pistol/shotgun and pistol/rifle so as to be able to host a concurrent full pistol match). A pistol/shotgun match is scheduled for Oct. 12. http://www.yorkiwlaipsc.org.
Also in PA, Topton Practical Shooters also has one a year. The one that was scheduled for last spring didn't come off and they planned to have it later in the year. I'm hoping they still do. http://www.usshooters.com/
You can also check with some of the other clubs in the USPSA Area 8 region.
http://www.uspsa8.org I think Fredericksburg, VA has 3-gun matches periodically. I also recall hearing that they have them at Quantico, VA. Don't know any details on the VA clubs though.
Actually, depending on the COF, 3-gun type rifle can be pretty boring to watch. You generally can't see the hits and because of the distance, scoring takes a long time because of people walking back and forth from 100+ yd. targets. Shotguns on steel is exciting though.
In PA, York IWLA IPSC has either 3-gun or 2-gun (pistol/shotgun and pistol/rifle so as to be able to host a concurrent full pistol match). A pistol/shotgun match is scheduled for Oct. 12. http://www.yorkiwlaipsc.org.
Also in PA, Topton Practical Shooters also has one a year. The one that was scheduled for last spring didn't come off and they planned to have it later in the year. I'm hoping they still do. http://www.usshooters.com/
You can also check with some of the other clubs in the USPSA Area 8 region.
http://www.uspsa8.org I think Fredericksburg, VA has 3-gun matches periodically. I also recall hearing that they have them at Quantico, VA. Don't know any details on the VA clubs though.
Dr.Rob
September 11, 2003, 01:52 PM
... That I've never shot one.
Though I'd like to.
Are there minimum power factors etc. for shooting 3-gun? (in other words can I use a BHP/AK/870?)
What kind of web gear/holsters does one use?
I've been doing IDPA for a while.
Though I'd like to.
Are there minimum power factors etc. for shooting 3-gun? (in other words can I use a BHP/AK/870?)
What kind of web gear/holsters does one use?
I've been doing IDPA for a while.
Zak Smith
September 11, 2003, 03:01 PM
Dr.Rob,
You should come to the next local Rocky Mtn 3Gun match. The schedule is here:
http://www.ecouspsa.com/schedule.html
under the "RM3G" row in the table. The next one is Sept 20th at the Aurora Gun Club.
The equipment divisions and scoring mimic IPSC/USPSA. In summary:
No optics on anything, no comp/brake on pistol and shotgun: Limited division.
Same, but optics up to 4X power on rifle: Modified division.
Anything goes: Open division.
Scoring is like IPSC for Major/Minor:
A-zone hit: 5 points major or minor,
B-zone hit: 4 points major, 3 points minor,
C-zone hit: 4 points major, 3 points minor,
D-zone hit: 2 points major, 1 point minor.
Or put in short-hand Major is 5/4/4/2 and minor is 5/3/3/1. The power factory for "minor" is 125, major is 165. All 20- and 12-guage is considered "major." Scoring is generally like IPSC: total points (from which penalties are subtracted) divided by total time. This is different from IDPA in which penalties and non-Z-zone hits add time.
The guns you mentioned would put you in Limited division, unless you have optics on the AK. The BHP would be scored minor (9mm) which would be a competitive disadvantage. Shooting 10-round magazines is not that bad of a disadvantage, as long as you manage your reloads -- I just shoot my .45 1911 with 10-round mags.
The most common rifle used in 3gun is the AR-15 in .223, which is minor, so your AK would be fine as long as you can shoot it fast.
As for gear, most people just take their IDPA or IPSC pistol gear and add: something to hold an extra rifle mag (a rear jeans pocket works well), and something to hold 10-15 shotgun shells. I'm using a combination of cheap stuff I got from Sportsmans Warehouse and good stuff I got from 3GunGear.Com. If you show up and need something, I and others will be glad to lend you stuff for the match.
-z
You should come to the next local Rocky Mtn 3Gun match. The schedule is here:
http://www.ecouspsa.com/schedule.html
under the "RM3G" row in the table. The next one is Sept 20th at the Aurora Gun Club.
The equipment divisions and scoring mimic IPSC/USPSA. In summary:
No optics on anything, no comp/brake on pistol and shotgun: Limited division.
Same, but optics up to 4X power on rifle: Modified division.
Anything goes: Open division.
Scoring is like IPSC for Major/Minor:
A-zone hit: 5 points major or minor,
B-zone hit: 4 points major, 3 points minor,
C-zone hit: 4 points major, 3 points minor,
D-zone hit: 2 points major, 1 point minor.
Or put in short-hand Major is 5/4/4/2 and minor is 5/3/3/1. The power factory for "minor" is 125, major is 165. All 20- and 12-guage is considered "major." Scoring is generally like IPSC: total points (from which penalties are subtracted) divided by total time. This is different from IDPA in which penalties and non-Z-zone hits add time.
The guns you mentioned would put you in Limited division, unless you have optics on the AK. The BHP would be scored minor (9mm) which would be a competitive disadvantage. Shooting 10-round magazines is not that bad of a disadvantage, as long as you manage your reloads -- I just shoot my .45 1911 with 10-round mags.
The most common rifle used in 3gun is the AR-15 in .223, which is minor, so your AK would be fine as long as you can shoot it fast.
As for gear, most people just take their IDPA or IPSC pistol gear and add: something to hold an extra rifle mag (a rear jeans pocket works well), and something to hold 10-15 shotgun shells. I'm using a combination of cheap stuff I got from Sportsmans Warehouse and good stuff I got from 3GunGear.Com. If you show up and need something, I and others will be glad to lend you stuff for the match.
-z
rock jock
September 11, 2003, 05:30 PM
That they are dominated (by number only) by all the doggone IPSC pukes. ;)
Andrew Wyatt
September 11, 2003, 06:51 PM
Dr Rob: there's a 3 gun match coming up in september in laughlin, nevada.
It's a large (250ish) shooter event, and takes place over three days.
www.wc3gun.com has details.
as for our match, you can use any pistol or revolver caliber 9mm or larger (.40 and up is considered major, assuming it meets the power factor, which i forgot offhand), any rifle in a centerfire military rifle caliber, exclusing .30 carbine, and any shotgun as long as it's 12 gauge, and the ammunition is 2 3/4" or longer.
the rest of the rules are on the website; there are weight limits for rifles and pistols, and restrictions as to what you can hang off the guns.
It's a large (250ish) shooter event, and takes place over three days.
www.wc3gun.com has details.
as for our match, you can use any pistol or revolver caliber 9mm or larger (.40 and up is considered major, assuming it meets the power factor, which i forgot offhand), any rifle in a centerfire military rifle caliber, exclusing .30 carbine, and any shotgun as long as it's 12 gauge, and the ammunition is 2 3/4" or longer.
the rest of the rules are on the website; there are weight limits for rifles and pistols, and restrictions as to what you can hang off the guns.
Hoser
September 11, 2003, 11:03 PM
Rob, in addition to the Denver area 3-gun matches, you can find them every third Sunday just north of Pueblo.
Expect 3 shotgun and 3 rifle stages. Bring 100 rounds of each to include 15 buck and 10 slug. One short range hose-um rifle stage, one medium range stage out to 250-ish, and one long range rifle stage out past 400 yards. The long range stage is scored as a side match for those that havent shot long range before.
Most of the shotgun is steel, we have over 100 plates of various shapes, 20+ poppers, and a couple plate racks with some of the more devious plates bolted on. We also use the MGM clay bird flippers which are in no way tactical, but fun.
Rifle targets past 50 yards are reactive steel. We have a dozen flash targets and 10 of Larry Cohen flasher targets. We have run a plate rack at 200 yards with six inch round plates. Know your zeros.
Any questions feel free to get in touch with me.
Tom Freeman
HMFIC, Pueblo West Sportsmans Assn
Expect 3 shotgun and 3 rifle stages. Bring 100 rounds of each to include 15 buck and 10 slug. One short range hose-um rifle stage, one medium range stage out to 250-ish, and one long range rifle stage out past 400 yards. The long range stage is scored as a side match for those that havent shot long range before.
Most of the shotgun is steel, we have over 100 plates of various shapes, 20+ poppers, and a couple plate racks with some of the more devious plates bolted on. We also use the MGM clay bird flippers which are in no way tactical, but fun.
Rifle targets past 50 yards are reactive steel. We have a dozen flash targets and 10 of Larry Cohen flasher targets. We have run a plate rack at 200 yards with six inch round plates. Know your zeros.
Any questions feel free to get in touch with me.
Tom Freeman
HMFIC, Pueblo West Sportsmans Assn
Correia
September 12, 2003, 01:57 PM
Rob, if you are up for a road trip we have a Utah 3 gun match September 20th. Your guns would work just fine. 9 stages. Rifle targets out to 200 yards or so.
We don't follow USPSA rules, and we just use IDPA targets and lots of steel. We don't score major or minor so bring your guns and have fun.
We don't follow USPSA rules, and we just use IDPA targets and lots of steel. We don't score major or minor so bring your guns and have fun.
Sunray
September 14, 2003, 12:51 AM
Skunkabilly, go buy a 4 wheel cart. One of the type that can be a 2 wheel cart you can switch to 4 when you need it. Everything goes in one lift. Makes life so much easier.
Dr.Rob
September 17, 2003, 12:46 PM
Wow thanks for all the replies!
I think I'm working this Saturday, though. Thanks for tips on scoring!
Rob
I think I'm working this Saturday, though. Thanks for tips on scoring!
Rob
rajaniblue
September 26, 2003, 01:38 PM
The thing I dont like about 3-gun matches is I have to get to the range by 6:00AM to start setting up. By the time the shooting starts I am usually fried and end up shooting like a girl.
Hoser, for shame.
Actually, you might want to shoot like THIS shotgunning girl, if you were smart. ATA 2001 State and 2002 Zone lady champion, and 5th out of over 900 shooters, open class, in 2001 Zone Handicap.
And I'm left handed, to boot.
Hoser, for shame.
Actually, you might want to shoot like THIS shotgunning girl, if you were smart. ATA 2001 State and 2002 Zone lady champion, and 5th out of over 900 shooters, open class, in 2001 Zone Handicap.
And I'm left handed, to boot.
Helmut
September 28, 2003, 09:02 PM
"WATER THE *** ****ROADS!" .....2003
edited by Correia 9/29/03, because a whole lot of folks find that kind of thing offensive, what with a commandment about it and all. :)
edited by Correia 9/29/03, because a whole lot of folks find that kind of thing offensive, what with a commandment about it and all. :)
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