What is the purpose of a bob tail 1911?


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SureThing
September 13, 2008, 10:53 AM
Why was the bob tail created for a 1911?

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farscott
September 13, 2008, 11:11 AM
The Bob Tail was created to make the 1911 less likely to print, especially when carried IWB. If carried in the stock configuration, a cover garment can be caught on the lower corner of the MSH. The Bob Tail eliminates this possible source of snagging, allowing the cover garment to drape naturally. This is a Bob Tail.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/SAMil-SpecBobtail4.jpg

Another way to deal with the issue is to "round butt" the 1911. This is a round butt. I have both and prefer the round butt.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/StingerGrips1.jpg

krs
September 13, 2008, 11:26 AM
I thought about bobtailling my carry gun but decided to try eounding the butt first. It worked so nice that I didn't buy the bobtail jig.

Some people like the look of a bobtail but everyone does it for the purpose described by Scott, and both make a big difference in how a gun hangs up anytime you carry with a forward (FBI?) slant.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/afterCCOb.jpg

Careful grinding, more careful filing, and the magic of beadblasting.

rondog
September 13, 2008, 05:26 PM
Hmmmm, first time I've heard of the round-butt thing. I carry a RIA Compact 1911, and I have everything, including a bead blaster. Get me some DuraCoat.....hmmmm.....

Babalouie
September 13, 2008, 11:33 PM
I had my S&W 1911PD bobtailed about two months ago. I did it so it would not print but what I discovered is that it makes it much more comfortable to carry. The corner of the MSH its high up on the ribcage and would at times dig into my side. That never happens now with the Bobtail. I'm extremely happy with it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/PDBobtailholstered.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/PDBobtailBtcloseup.jpg

Frog48
September 14, 2008, 02:41 AM
I've seen lots of bobtail commanders, but has anybody bobtailed a compact 1911?

I think a bobtailed 3" 1911 would be a perfect concealed carry gun.

MICHAEL T
September 14, 2008, 03:16 AM
can't bobtail a 3" They conceal fine as is.
I have a carry both The bobtail makes a difference on a full frame . Ive considered doing my Govt.

9mmepiphany
September 14, 2008, 03:17 AM
you start running into reliability issues when you take the barrel or the 1911 platform shorter than 4.25". spring tension becomes more critical

Mickstix
September 14, 2008, 03:54 AM
Id like to see a "before and after" of a bobtail or rounding job.. I take it this is usually done by a specialist/smith?? Is bobtailing so specific that you can buy aftermarket grips already "bobtailed", that will fit, or once you have your gun done you have to have any grips custom made there after?? Just a few questions from a noob.. Thanks!!

Eric F
September 14, 2008, 04:38 AM
Why was the bob tail created for a 1911?


IMO just because some gun smith could. People can say all they want about printing and ccw and everything else but ultimately thats because they could. I think it makes the gun look silly. again its just IMO. After all it worked fine for almost 100 years with out bobtails right?

I've seen lots of bobtail commanders, but has anybody bobtailed a compact 1911?
Well now there is an idea in fact after you bobtail it then you can shorten the barrel down to 1" then make a 3 round magazine oh and re engineer it out of light weight alloy and put ultra thin grips on it too, then finish the gun off with a nice melt down


Disclaimer: at 3:30am at work been up for 25+ hours this responce seemed funny to me it was ment to be funny if its not just send me a pm and I will fix it after I get some sleep

Babalouie
September 14, 2008, 09:46 AM
Id like to see a "before and after" of a bobtail or rounding job.. I take it this is usually done by a specialist/smith?? Is bobtailing so specific that you can buy aftermarket grips already "bobtailed", that will fit, or once you have your gun done you have to have any grips custom made there after?? Just a few questions from a noob.. Thanks!!
__________________
Mick

A gunsmith installed the bobtail on mine and modified the grips. I wanted thin grips and made the ones for the bobtail. I think you can find grips but stock grips only require sanding to shape with a little finish touch up...anyone can do it quite easily. I've never had a gun modified before but the bobtail really intrigued me. I have to say, again, that I am quite surprised with how much difference it makes when carrying. Here's before and after.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/SW1911PDstockgrip.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/PDBobtailholstered.jpg

TexasRifleman
September 14, 2008, 10:36 AM
IMO just because some gun smith could. People can say all they want about printing and ccw and everything else but ultimately thats because they could. I think it makes the gun look silly. again its just IMO. After all it worked fine for almost 100 years with out bobtails right?

Just because JMB didn't do it doesn't make it a bad idea. JMB wasn't particularly concerned with building a handgun to wear under a Tommy Bahama shirt......

Old Fuff
September 14, 2008, 10:54 AM
Just because JMB didn't do it doesn't make it a bad idea. JMB wasn't particularly concerned with building a handgun to wear under a Tommy Bahama shirt......

Actually Browning did (sort of) think of it. Look at his early .38 Automatics and the 1903/08 Pocket Model. So far as the 1911 is concerned you're right. It was intended to be a military sidearm, and nothing else was given any consideration.

2TransAms
September 14, 2008, 11:38 AM
It's primary function is concealment,and it helps tremendously,at least for a skinny guy like me.

Does it look better? Well I'm pretty impartial about that. I wouldn't spend the money to bobtail a range gun,but any and all carry 1911's will definitely have a bob job.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/2transams/DSC00154.jpg

kcshooter
September 14, 2008, 12:25 PM
IMO just because some gun smith could. People can say all they want about printing and ccw and everything else but ultimately thats because they could. I think it makes the gun look silly. again its just IMO. After all it worked fine for almost 100 years with out bobtails right?Your opinion is incorrect. It wasn't just so a gunsmith could, it was specifically designed to drop the harsh corner off, and if you had any experience carrying one against the other you would notice a HUGE difference in concealability. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a solid fact. I'm much less concerned about the appearance of my carry gun than its function, but hey, we all have our own priorities. As far as working for 100 years, the bobtail has been around a while, has proven to cause 0 issues and it is a simple fact that they conceal better. you start running into reliability issues when you take the barrel or the 1911 platform shorter than 4.25".False. While there are more concerns with critical tolerances and tensions, you do not automatically run into issues with 3-3.5" 1911s. They can be more finicky, but my 3" Kimber with a round count over 7k has never had a failure of any kind. has anybody bobtailed a compact 1911?The reason this can't be done is that the bobtail is actually based on the officer's MSH. All the bobtail internals are officers parts.

9mmepiphany
September 14, 2008, 01:06 PM
Quote:
you start running into reliability issues when you take the barrel or the 1911 platform shorter than 4.25".

False. While there are more concerns with critical tolerances and tensions , you do not automatically run into issues with 3-3.5" 1911s. They can be more finicky , but my 3" Kimber with a round count over 7k has never had a failure of any kind.

how about: you are more likely to have issues as they are more finicky as to tolerences and tensions

this isn't internet lore, it comes from a gunsmith, with 30+ years experience, who worked at Devel and developed the Gammon which was used by Chip McCommick in IPSC competition

kcshooter
September 14, 2008, 04:27 PM
how about: you are more likely to have issues as they are more finicky as to tolerences and tensions I was simply pointing out that just because it's a compact you don't automatically run into reliability issues. Almost all compact run just fine. Those that have issues can be tuned into reliability and yes, you are correct, there is more chance in having a critical tolerance slightly off causing an issue than with a gov't length ones. But the unreliability of compacts is greatly overstated.

harmonic
September 14, 2008, 04:48 PM
JMB wasn't particularly concerned with building a handgun to wear under a Tommy Bahama shirt......


A Tommy Bahama shirt is the big flowery thing, right?

I don't think "printing" is a problem with these. I could carry a Doberman in one of those shirts and nobody would know.

kcshooter
September 14, 2008, 05:06 PM
I could carry a Doberman in one of those shirts and nobody would know.Hehehe.

Prove it!

harmonic
September 14, 2008, 08:00 PM
Hehehe.

Prove it!


Well, you never noticed it, did you?

Prepster
September 14, 2008, 11:13 PM
I don't care for bobtailed 1911s, but a lot of people seem to think they look pretty and have a practical application, so to each their own I suppose.

Wes Janson
September 14, 2008, 11:53 PM
Anyone have any idea whether there's any appreciable difficulties involved in bobtailing an aluminum or titanium frame?

2TransAms
September 15, 2008, 12:03 AM
I know it's been done to a few Kimber Tacticals and CDP's,and I haven't heard of any problems. Obviously you'll lose the anodizing where you cut but that's about it.

Sniper X
September 15, 2008, 12:07 AM
KCshooter, you said Officers model did you mean Commander? All Bobtails I have ever seen done are Commander length. The officers model is a compact so won't lend itself to a bobtail job.....also, I can tell you non beleivers (:neener:) that I own 11 1911's now and one of them is a bobtail I got Friday, from now on it'll be my CCW gun as soon as I get it to the range and it prooves itself as a reliable shooter which it should being a Dan Wesson Bobtail Commander Classic........

Sniper X
September 15, 2008, 12:12 AM
posted by EricF IMO just because some gun smith could. People can say all they want about printing and ccw and everything else but ultimately thats because they could. I think it makes the gun look silly. again its just IMO. After all it worked fine for almost 100 years with out bobtails right?


If that were a valid argument for everything we would be in a hell of a fix there Eric! Just because someone does something, doesn't mean it was done just because it could be done. Plus, the Bobtail IS and was done for practicality of stated reasons, not just because it simply could be done......it does work as specified, and to that I can attest 1000% as a 1911 owner, shooter, and carrier for over 30 years.

M203Sniper
September 15, 2008, 12:36 AM
Somewhere I saw a picture of a bobtailed longslide.

Here it is on 1911auto.org (http://1911auto.org/forum showthread.php?t=2603) built by Fusion Firearms. Personally I haven't carried one and can't speak about them, but I don't like grip safeties either. That would be the first thing I would change if it were up to me. :)

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/servarw/JHHunter-4.jpg

kcshooter
September 15, 2008, 12:37 AM
KCshooter, you said Officers model did you mean Commander? All Bobtails I have ever seen done are Commander length.No, I think you misunderstood me. What I said was the bobtail housing is based on a officers housing, and that all the internals were officers parts. Yes, the bobtail goes on full-sized frames, but what I said was the bobtail is designed around a modified officers mainspring housing. Which is why it can't be done to a compact.

has anybody bobtailed a compact 1911?

The reason this can't be done is that the bobtail is actually based on the officer's MSH. All the bobtail internals are officers parts.

Babalouie
September 15, 2008, 09:04 AM
Anyone have any idea whether there's any appreciable difficulties involved in bobtailing an aluminum or titanium frame?

See the pics I posted (Post#5) of my S&W 1911PD. Its the lightweight scandium frame which means an alloy of aluminum with a small percentage of scandium. It machines just like aluminum and is easy to work with. The only refinishing it needed was some aluminum black burnished into the exposed edge where the frame was cut. Can't tell you a thing about titanium.

Eric F
September 15, 2008, 09:14 AM
Ok folks after having a day off and being refreshed with a clear thinking process, my opinions were based on my experience. I know the bob tail concept has a purpose, I do not and have never had a problem with the standard 1911. I have handeled and shot a bob tail. I do not care for it. I fail to see any advantage to it as a shooting modification, and I do not really lok to modify 1911's to aid in the ability to conceal one. Again as I have never had an issue with 1911 concealment. Aparently some folks do have problems with it. No big deal. Any other arguements are a non issue. I was just in one of my cranky no sleep moods again, didnt mean to get anything started.
Eric F

Babalouie
September 15, 2008, 09:28 AM
I was just in one of my cranky no sleep moods again, didnt mean to get anything started.
Eric F

Yep, we can all relate to that, or at least I can! :)

Sniper X
September 15, 2008, 12:54 PM
Eric, I understand that! I wasn't getting on your case either, I was just leting you know my personal opinion and that it was truely done for a viable reason. In my personal opinion it works great for the reason it was designed, and I do like shooting it after the tape went on, not so much before, a tad slippery!

Kev

2TransAms
September 15, 2008, 01:11 PM
I fail to see any advantage to it as a shooting modification, and I do not really lok to modify 1911's to aid in the ability to conceal one. Again as I have never had an issue with 1911 concealment.As a shooting mod,you're right,it won't really help you shoot better. But for me it helps a lot with concealment. I'm a pretty thin guy and if any corner of the gun sticks out,it's gonna show. :)

krs
September 15, 2008, 02:30 PM
The photo I posted above was of the rounded butt of my Colt CCO which is a Commander length slide on an Officer sized alloy frame. It couldn't be bobtailed because it's an officer size, not that I'd do it anyway. I like my rounded one and it serves the need in not catching up my shirt when carried. It's my most often carried 1911 pistol and I bought it for the purpose. It's actually rollmarked "Concealed Carry Model on the slide...http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/CCO_ARCH1.jpg

I rounded it on my fine grinding wheel mostly, finishing with files.


Oh.........I originally rounded it with a flat MSH, but later made the arched one seen here.

9mmepiphany
September 15, 2008, 03:37 PM
very nice.

the proportions of the Commander slide atop the Officer frame has always been my favorite. i really like the way you've rounded the butt of the frame.

hecate
September 15, 2008, 04:23 PM
I had a custom Wilson Combat built with a bobtail, and it helps tremendously with ease of concealment on a 5'4" short-waisted female. It's easier to conceal than my CCO-size Kimber.

Others who have shot it feel the grip digs into their hands, but my hands are small enough that they stay above the corner.

Mickstix
September 17, 2008, 01:36 AM
Babalouie, thanks for the before/after pix! It looks like a pin (bottom left) has been removed in the process? Is that correct? Did they redrill/relocate it?? Thanks again!

Here's the pix for quick reference..
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/SW1911PDstockgrip.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/PDBobtailholstered.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "What is the purpose of a bob tail 1911?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!