Security Guards allowed assault weapons


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Mark Tyson
September 8, 2003, 12:02 AM
Security Guards allowed assault weapons

09/06/2003

September 04, Today's Sunbeam (NJ) - New Jersey nuclear plant guards allowed better arms. Security guards at New Jersey's nuclear facilities won a concession from the state on Wednesday, September 4, when Gov. James E. McGreevey signed a bill that will allow security personnel to carry semi−automatic weapons. The new law addresses concerns by security guards that they were not equipped well enough to defend plants from terrorists.

The new state law will allow security personnel at nuclear power plants to carry and possess hollow nose ammunition and certain semi−automatic weapons classified as assault firearms while performing their duties. Prior to the measure, the guards were not allowed to use such weapons. Guards that carry both the weapons and ammunition would need to be federally licensed to do so and would be obligated to return the firearms daily to designated supervisors.

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WonderNine
September 8, 2003, 12:32 AM
hollow nose ammunition

:rolleyes:

Jeff White
September 8, 2003, 12:41 AM
Guards that carry both the weapons and ammunition would need to be federally licensed to do so and would be obligated to return the firearms daily to designated supervisors.

What's up with that? Anyone ever heard of a federal license for semi-automatic weapons and hollownose ammunition?

And what kind of special permits do the supervisors need? :what:

Jeff

Standing Wolf
September 8, 2003, 12:59 AM
Commoners have nothing worth defending, nor any right to do so.

Steve in PA
September 8, 2003, 01:22 AM
I did a LEO Patrol Rifle Instructor Course several weeks ago and several of the instructors were from nuclear facilities. Believe me, the hoops and regulations they have to jump through, go through is a major pain in the butt.

Some can't have the mag in the weapons (most use ARs) beacuse it frightens some of the workers. There is alot more that I don't remember right now. But in between classes we all talked and while they may carry "assault weapons"........its not what you think.

WonderNine
September 8, 2003, 01:52 AM
Jeff we're talking about New Jersey where everything from hollowpoint ammo to cell phones in cars are illegal.

Redlg155
September 8, 2003, 02:23 AM
What I want to know is what the heck were they carrying prior to this???

Good Shooting
Red

C.R.Sam
September 8, 2003, 02:27 AM
M&Ps ?:rolleyes:

Sam

Kaylee
September 8, 2003, 02:43 AM
Some can't have the mag in the weapons (most use ARs) beacuse it frightens some of the workers.

:confused:


Seems to me the appropriate response to said "frightened" workers would be along the lines of "you're presently standing 50 meters from a contained nuclear fission reaction. I think you can handle being 250 meters from a flippin' rifle."

jeez....



-K

jizzacked
September 8, 2003, 04:12 AM
where can I get some of that hollow nose ammo, sounds pretty neat.

c_yeager
September 8, 2003, 04:46 AM
I have a feeling that this "switch to assault weapons" in jersey political speak means that they are trading in their 30 year old smith and wesson .38's for used glock 17s with (gasp) some kind of actual defensive round as opposed to the FMJ they had.

dinosaur
September 8, 2003, 09:19 AM
The reference to "designated supervisors" is Yellow Journalism for Gun Custodian. I would imagine that with PRNJs gun laws, security can`t carry any weapons out of the plant. The Gun Custodian would have some kind of permit to transport weapons back and forth for repair, off site training etc.

The fed license might be for working security at a nuke facility. I`m just guessing but I`ll bet I`m closer to the truth than the intrepid, ahem, reporter. :rolleyes:

shfttrsh
September 8, 2003, 09:49 AM
As you all have guessed the reporter is full of manure. The Federal goverment (NRC) does not license Nuclear Security Officers, they are subject to the licensing requirements of what ever state they work in. The power company operating the facility is required to protect it from a specified level of threat by the NRC and 6they don't care how it is done.

joyadecarolina
September 8, 2003, 09:55 AM
when i left the Corps, wackenhut (sp?) attempted to recruit me. seems they have a division of mostly former and retired MP's, SP's, SRT, cops ect that work at level 3 areas. that was in 97 so i can imagine things have gotten a bit tighter.

Detachment Charlie
September 8, 2003, 10:16 AM
I never use hollow nose ammo; it just boogers-up your gun.

Nightfall
September 8, 2003, 12:20 PM
Some can't have the mag in the weapons (most use ARs) beacuse it frightens some of the workers.

Sad thing is, it would probably take a nuclear attack by terrorists to wake people up as to why security guards should be allowed to ya know, secure a nuke plant. :rolleyes:

Dannyboy
September 8, 2003, 01:52 PM
Hmmm. I always thought that the guards at nuke plants were federal employees of the Energy Dept.

mattd
September 8, 2003, 02:08 PM
On nbc or one of them had a thing about how some special forces broke into the plant and stole the "package". So unless they get some training or something like watch towers, the rifles aren't going to do them any good. I doubt terrorists would try to break into one of these plants any ways. There are much easier ways of getting this stuff which doesn't really do anything but scare people unless they turn it into weapons grade.

longtom4570
September 8, 2003, 02:28 PM
If the plant is DOE they are fed certified, some are private security companys, others are run by the utillity that own the plant.

shfttrsh
September 8, 2003, 02:39 PM
I am willing to bet that it is a power plant, a DOE facility would not have this concern as DOE security have had federal authority all along. One of the concerns of the Congress-critters post 9/11 was the wide differances in the security forces at power plants across the country. This is due to state law/regulations and the operator's viewpoint of security.

jon
September 8, 2003, 04:16 PM
Security Guards allowed assault weapons


09/06/2003



It took almost two years after 9/11 for them to allow security officers to secure a nuclear building?


:uhoh:

:banghead:

VaughnT
September 8, 2003, 07:30 PM
Ya know, I would love to work security at a nuclear facility. That is one heck of a detail to get on with, just for the money, but stories like this really make me think twice.

Skunkabilly
September 8, 2003, 07:51 PM
Jeff we're talking about New Jersey where everything from hollowpoint ammo to cell phones in cars are illegal.

That sucks...do they have external compartments in their cars if they want to bring them to work? Or do they have to be in a locked container not including the glove compartment? :banghead:

4v50 Gary
September 9, 2003, 01:15 AM
I always thought that nuke plants were under DoE jurisdiction and that they had security guys who were SWAT trained. That's how we do it in California. They got toys the cops wish they had.

moa
September 9, 2003, 08:01 PM
One thing I heard on the news about nuclear power plant guards is that there are not enough of them. Many work very long hours to cover the shifts. The result is they loose their edge, and start making stupid mistakes and omissions.

Mannlicher
September 9, 2003, 08:43 PM
Since there are so many cult followers of the Mosin-Nagant '91 and it's many varients on this and other BBS, I am sure that most wold think that we could just arm the security personel with those. Oh, and lets lets issue them some Makarovs also. :D

DMK
September 9, 2003, 09:18 PM
What I want to know is what the heck were they carrying prior to this??? I don't know about NJ, but I knew some folks that worked security at a nuclear plant in NY. They had Berettas and ARs back around '90, '91. They certainly weren't trained like SWAT or anything though and didn't carry the rifles normally.

gunsmith
September 10, 2003, 02:59 PM
hard to imagine a place worse then where I am now.
Demon-crats will never ever get my vote again

raz-0
September 10, 2003, 04:06 PM
Or do they have to be in a locked container not including the glove compartment?

you pretty much nailed the answer with that one. Separate from the ammo.

You don't even want to know about the carry permit process and armed gaurds. The last few companies that do that here are talking about no longer offering armed gaurds in NJ.

Hmm, the doctors are leaving, the insurance companies are leaving, the armed gaurds are getting ready to leave.. You think someone would notice something was up. Me, I assume it will get real amusing after the armed guards leave and the banks start noticing... Wonder what happens when the banks leave?

KahrKarrier
September 10, 2003, 04:47 PM
My fishin buddy here in S. Florida is a Fla Licensed Security Officer (don't call him a guard) additionally he underwent 40 hours of training to earn a "G" license (at great expense to himself and not his company) which authorizes him to carry, exposed, a loaded weapon ONLY while on watch at the jobsight, not authorized to wear exposed while traveling to and from
the job. The only weapon authorized by Fla law is a .38spl, 4"revolver stoked with FMJ only, no JHP's allowed. He has to requal every year at his own expense. This man is assigned to duty solo in areas that the Sheriff's deputies have told him they only go into in pairs, he guards banks, construction sites and believe it or not, grocery stores in the "bad" part of town. All this and only armed with a .38, no mace, no batons allowed. He is totally out gunned by just about anyone he comes in contact with. He works for a well known international security agency who supply him only with uniforms and an old Taurus .38. If he wants body armour, he has to buy it himself. You have to know this man to understand why he does what he does for $10 an hour, he is a thrill seeker who thrives on risk and danger, better him than me.
My point here is that states need to recognize that highly trained security officers (don't call them guards) go into some pretty seedy areas and watch over some places that LEOs avoid. They should be trained with and allowed to carry semi auto weapons of at least .40 cal.
My freind carries a Glock 33 .357sig in a very expensive ankle holster as a BUG to his .38. If his company found out, he'd be fired. If the SHTF and he pops a cap on someone with the Glock, he will probably go to jail. But like he says he'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.
My personal hat is off to all private security officers (don't call them guards) who go into harms way to provide a service for meeger wages. Something needs to be done to help these guys.

VaughnT
September 10, 2003, 07:05 PM
Kahrkarrier, you're dead on about something being done about the quality of personnel in the security business. With low pay and little training, you wind up with Barney Fifes all around. With nothing but Barney Fifes in the employee pool, customers don't see the need to pay good money to security companies who therefore can't increase hourly wages or better the training. States are also at fault for not adhering to the rules regulating security officers (don't call them guards). With some of the rules on the books, 90% of the barneys would be terminated forthwith. Failure to enforce the rules only brings everyone down. And don't believe you can't get good people to take low-paying jobs in high-risk areas. If you can get cops to sign on for $19-22k/yr, then you can get good people into security operations.

MOA, our local nuke plant (Oconee Station) promises temporary security workers $12.60/hr.....and no less than 55 hours per week. They work 12hr shifts, which means you're dead tired by the tenth hour. And what's worse, it's a swing shift so you'll be on days for one week and then switch to nights for the next week. Your biological clock has got to get fried after awhile on that, nevermind a workweek that often goes over sixty hours. Sure, you get time-and-a-half after 40hrs, but when do you get to enjoy that money? I'd hate to think of all the mistakes and snafus that are taking place out there.

Still, given what I know, I'd give my eye teeth for a job out there. It's just such a different type of job! And they are the largest purchaser of ammunition in SC!!

Deepdiver
September 10, 2003, 07:17 PM
Guards that carry both the weapons and ammunition would need to be federally licensed to do so and would be obligated to return the firearms daily to designated supervisors.

...sounds kinda like Barney Fife - some guards get to carry weapons, and others get to carry ammunition, and maybe some really SENIOR guards get to carry BOTH :banghead: (Now, I know what they were trying to say, but they still sound pretty stupid.)

.....now, tell me again why we are so extra secure by placing our personal safety into the hands of the zipper-heads that took two (2) (yes, count them, one, two) years after 9/11 to issue reasonable weapons to the security guards at a nuclear power plant??? These folks are starting to scare me.

shfttrsh
September 11, 2003, 12:16 PM
dd- You only the know the half of it. VaughnT has a fair amount of the story (I work for the company he is talking about) and we are rated as one of the best Nuc. security organizations in the country. A large part of the problem is the simple fact that we do not produce power(money) for the shareholders, therefore the mangement wants to keep the expenses at the minumum the Federal goverment will let them get by with. State laws dealing with private security vary widely and dispite what some think we are subject to those laws. Remember that quite a few in goverment and in the industry still do not believe it will ever happen at a nuclear plant.

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