hi-tec/low-tec .45 Colt BP loading...


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mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 03:05 PM
Many writers and posters make loading .45 Colt BP rounds seem like an arcane science, prone to failure and disappointing results unless expensive bullets, proprietary lubes, fiber wads, etc are used.

This is horse-hocky...using nothing but commercial hardcast bullets and a microwave, entirely satisfactory and accurate black powder loads can be assembled with not much more trouble than loading standard smokeless.

Firstly, let's deal with the bullets....commercial hardcast RNFP or SWC bought properly sized to fill chamber throat and bore are a must-have. If your gun has undersized throats swaging bullets down to a rattling fit going down-bore, you can stop right here....conversely, oversized throats/undersized bullets will allow a lot fouling blow-by/build-up. If your gun is properly made, simply place a folded papertowel in a stout tupperware container, set your bullets base-down on the towel, and micro-wave on a lower setting like "reheat" to melt out most the useless crayon-hard lube....the bullets will get hot very quickly, so keep an eye on things so they don't get hot enough to do a China Syndrome thing through the tupperware....then, set them aside and allow bullets and lube-soaked paper to cool....it's OK if traces of lube remains on bullets.

Secondly, let's deal with lube....BP and petroleum based stuff just doesn't mix....paraffin, petrolatum (Vaseline), etc, various greases, expensive additives, etc. either don't keep fouling soft, and/or make fouling cake-on and burn like spilled oil on an exhaust manifold. All you will need is a cake of beeswax and some veggie oil. Using another tupperware container, and using the microwave on "reheat", simply put chunks of wax in the container, add a little oil, and heat until melted. Allow the stuff to cool, and then add either more wax or more oil and re-nuke to adjust stiffness...expect this to take a couple of tries.

Thirdly, let's lube the bullets....using the tupperware you heated the bullets in, place your now-delubed bullets back in the container, without a papertowel, reheat your lube, and pour it into the bullet container until grooves are just covered...leave 1/2" min. spacing between bullets....after the lube/bullet cake cools, pop it out of the tupperware, hold it in your hand, and whack the bullets on the nose with a plastic mallet, piece of dowel, etc., knocking them out base-first from the back of the cake onto a waiting folded papertowel...it helps to knock them out between your spread fingers, the fingers supporting the cake so it doesn't break, ditto the space we left between bullets.

Fourthly, load them just like you load your smokeless rounds, but use Magnum pistol primers such as CCI 350's, the only caveat being BE SURE THERE IS NO AIRSPACE LEFT IN THE CASE OR YOU WILL BLOW YOUR GUN UP!!!.....do I need to repeat that?....no?....OK.....either fill the case with BP until bullet base contact during seating is guaranteed, or, add a filler such as Cream Of Wheat or cornmeal until bullet contact is guaranteed....IF YOU LEAVE AIRSPACE, YOU WILL BLOW YOUR GUN UP!!!....oh, sorry, you said you didn't need the repeating.

With this recipe, you will have assembled loads that will fire 50rds straight without the slightest hint of binding/fouling, and which will maintain whatever accuracy your gun started with until the last round is fired....in truth, the gun will appear cleaner than loads using Bullseye pistol powder.

Cleaning is a chore, no getting around it, but, again, and can be simple and cheap.....very hot tap water in the sink with ammonia-based household cleaners works great, as does Murphy Oil Soap....I recommend detail strip every time, cleaning the large parts in the sink, and small parts in a bowl. After cleaning, flush parts with very hot water, shake/blow, place on papertowel, and immediately lube with either a thinned version of your bullet lube or Bore Butter (same thing), then reassemble.

You'll note no fancy chemicals, lube, wads, greases or bullets were harmed during the filming of this....errr......film.....and neither were you by contact with any of them.....

The brass should be immediately deprimed after firing and chucked into a jug filled with a soap/water mix, occasionally sloshed around....once home, rinse/slosh several more times in the jug, then dump them out to dry on a papertowel, and then clean as usual.....or just be lazy, use your old cases, and trash them after firing.....but I would NEVER do such a thing.....

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scrat
September 13, 2008, 03:24 PM
good post i use winchester primers. no need for magnum though. never needed it.

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 03:49 PM
I get cleaner burning, less fouling, higher velocity, more consistant ignition/velocity using magnum primers....others have worked, just not as well....

scrat
September 13, 2008, 04:38 PM
i still dont see it. You ever compare caps and primers. the spark ie flash of a #10 cap is very small. #11 is really no bigger. Yet the #11 cap when properly used ignited my 55 grains of Goex in my Walker just fine. Now comparing that to a Winchester Large Pistol Primer is totally different. The ignition on a WLP is huge compared to a #10 or #11 cap. Same time im only loading 35 grains of black in a cartridge just using a regular WLP compared to a #10 or #11 cap is huge. Its already like using a Magnum cap.

Ok lets take a step back. In Line muzzle loaders were designed to use #209 shotgun primers. An excellent invention on an old design. About a year ago they came out with muzzleloading 209 primers. Why because what they found out was the 209 primers were so strong by itself it could move the bullet. With the change of the 209 muzzleloading primers the primers flash is at a slower rate allowing all of the powder to burn then propelling the bullet rather than allowing the primer to propell the bullet.


Now going back to using magnum primers on a colt shooting black powder. Your lucky you do not have fouling. I seriously doubt your are getting a higher velocity shooting magnum primers. This would have to be recorded with a meter. Most likely the powder is not burning all the way and is escaping through the barrel. Black powder is not designed to be shot using magnum primers. It is highly explosive and can be set off with a flint and piece of metal. Thats why we have the flintlock. However using a magnum primer could do the same with the 209's and that your moving the bullet before the powder burns thoroughly.

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 04:59 PM
The differences HAVE been chronographed.....higher velocity, lower standard deviation, both my loads and published loads, using 350's....better burn with less fouling, too....no luck involved....poofball cowboy games loads might be a different story, but 250gr+ bullets pressed into an undersized brass sleeve and then tightly crimped aren't going to start moving easily...if that were the case, recoil would cause bullets to creep out from the cartridge.

Now, musket caps in some rifled muskets were shown in an NRA article some time back to cause erratic ignition, along with 209's.....209's were really intended to light harder-to-ignite substitutes....the article writer postulated the musket cap started powder/ball moving downbore....however, a bullet tightly seated and crimped into a brass cartridge isn't the same thing at all as a muzzleloader....if the theory of bullet/powder movement had general merit, you'd surely see it with smokeless loads, too, and it's just not there....

I'm posting of actual results, which just today included a 5-shot/25yd/standing-braced group of 1" at rounds #41-45.....does this sound like fouling build-up/loss-of-accuracy/luck, or even anything vaguely debatable?

scrat
September 13, 2008, 05:11 PM
Well here is my hightec low tec on shooting 45 colt.

I dont microwave anything


I go to my back yard. Put in 10lbs of lead in my pot then do my standard casting. After i cast i take the bullets to my lubrisizer and i size and lube the bullets using spg lube.

After that i size my cases, then prime using WLP. then i use 35 grains of 3f goex. Seat the bullet to the powder and apply a very light crimp.

Once i fire all my rounds at the range i dont do anything chemical to my cases. When i get home i dump them in my case tumbler and turn it on. About an hour later my cases come out perfectly shiney brass. I then deprime clean the flash holes and primer pockets then repeat.

No leading of the barrel, fouling is no greater than shooting cap and ball, accuracy has always been good with my WALKER.

Someone pointed out to me about the case tumbler. In the case tumbler i use 2 cap fulls of nu finish. 2 drier sheets and pieces of paer towels. I change these often. However i do have two tumblers. 1 i use for black powder and one for smokeless. Why the difference. The chemical residue left over from smokeless can be mostly lead. The chemical composition of black powder depending on what powder you use is sulfur burnt which we know is more caustic than regular smokeless. With this i change drier sheets and papertowels often and avoid any airborne particles.

scrat
September 13, 2008, 05:20 PM
with ammonia-based household cleaners works great

Works great but is the wrong thing to use. We have talked about ammonia based cleaners to many times on the reloading area. Ammonia and brass cases do not mix. Ammonia will leach the zinc from the cases turning them red. This actually breaks down the cases. If you are going to use a chemical the only chemical to use is warm water vineagar and dish washing soap. However you need to make sure the cases are not in there to long as the vinegar will still attack the brass. Im not too sure where your getting your information from but its wrong. Some people use to use brasso on cases but brasso contains ammonia. The only thing recommended in case tumblers is nu finish. You ever see what ammonia does to cases especially over a period of time and shooting. your going to start finding small pin holes in your brass first.

scrat
September 13, 2008, 05:26 PM
topics on ammonia based cleaners and brass

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=383472&highlight=ammonia
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=271001&highlight=ammonia
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=373732&highlight=ammonia
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=354924&highlight=ammonia
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=342545&highlight=ammonia

rcmodel
September 13, 2008, 05:29 PM
Delete!

rcmodel

scrat
September 13, 2008, 05:42 PM
Magnum primers and Black Powder

With the switch to modern black powder substitutes, even older Pyrodex, muzzleloading hunters realized some time ago that the added fire from a primer was needed to insure quick, positive and guaranteed ignition of these powders. This is especially true of the compressed pellet charges. However, the widespread use of the very same primers used for loading shotgun shells has not been without its problems. Noticed first by a few very experienced muzzleloading shooters (namely Cecil Epp of Precision Rifle Custom Muzzleloader Bullets), it was established that some of the hotter primers could actually have a negative affect on muzzleloader accuracy. And that's due to so much fire and pressure into the load in the barrel. "Magnum" No. 209 primers can actually cause the seated saboted bullet and powder charge to move forward slightly before the powder ever ignites. In severe cases, the movement can be enough to totally eliminate the compaction of the powder charge, resulting in a misfire. And at the very least, the inconsistency of where the sabot and bullet combination actually ends up in the bore at the moment of ignition often causes erratic accuracy. Many feel that this is the primary cause of unexplainable flierstaken from

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Technical3.html

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 06:15 PM
Scrat, I appreciate your taking over my thread on how easy .45 Colt loading/shooting/cleaning can be.....without your input, I would have been lost.

The ammonia cleaner was mentioned for cleaning the GUN.

For anyone not already bored to tears by this good-intentioned thread, if you're considering .45 Colt BP as something new, the detail strip/clean/reassemble as I mentioned above shouldn't take much over 45mins from start to finish, which is what many spend cleaning a gun with smokeless loads.

Rinsing the cases was mentioned to save on cleaning media if you use one of the fancy case cleaners....if you're working kitchen-sink, you can brush them out at that time.....

scrat
September 13, 2008, 06:23 PM
Well then good job thanks for the lesson. :what:


Im sure the bluing on my revolvers would love that ammonia.

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 07:01 PM
scrat, the entire purpose of my original post was to help someone who DIDN'T cast, DIDN'T own a lubrisizer, DIDN'T want to invest in special lubes or equipment just to give it a try, find out how easy and fun shooting black powder in their .45 Colt could be....especially to those scared of what corrosive salts might do to their pride and joy revolver, or worried over putting in a bunch of extra expense and trouble just to get a gun that lost accuracy or quit working due to fouling.....

To repeat, cheap storebought bullets, a little home-brew lube, and standard loading equipment will result in a gun/load that fouls LESS than many standard smokeless loads and gives sterling accuracy in guns capable of sterling accuracy with any other loads.

No change in die settings desired or required....firm crimp for complete ignition/combustion, just not too firm so as to deform the bullet....easy as pie, guys.....try it....you'll like it....

mec
September 13, 2008, 07:52 PM
on a semi related note. I got hold of a box of circa 1913-16 factory black powder .44 specials. The primers were dead so I pulled them apart and replaced with new remingtons. I used both the original powder and some modern goex
Link to article:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/44special.htm
Interestingly enough, the old loads used a cupro-nickel jacketed bullet with small lube grooves filled with a still waxy light colored lubricant. The gun got dirty on the outside but the barrel fouling was less pronounced than I get with percussion revolvers and accuracy was good.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/cumpston/44special_3.jpg

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/cumpston/44special_1.jpg

scrat
September 13, 2008, 08:08 PM
Oh mec please tell me you didnt shoot them all. WOW nice find. Look at the bottom of the bullet. Kinda odd looks like it has a cover on it. you can see a folded edge. Id love to see that bullet

mec
September 13, 2008, 08:24 PM
mater of fact, I pulled most of the bullets and still have some left over Its a standard jacketed bullet.they wil polish out "whilte" because of the nickel content. When I return a package to you, I'll send one along. I'd always heard of black powder .44 factory loads but the jackets surprised me. We actually found two boxes. One was in better shape and was full so we passed that one along to John Taffin. He used it in one of his Krauss or DBI books. "Book of the 44" or something like that. He had never seen these loads either. The next year I went back and got this box which was almost full.

I used the 90 year old powder to check some things out with paterson and pocket model loads. Most loads were slower than modern goex though one or two were faster. The shot to shot variation was about the same as I remember.

scrat
September 13, 2008, 08:27 PM
Thank you very much that is so cool.

Pulp
September 13, 2008, 09:01 PM
mtrgnr, I enjoyed your article. I've done everything you've said with good results. Except I've done it .44-40. I've only recently gotten a .45Colt. Another piece of advice that I will add is: flat based soft lead bullets will work better with BP than tapered base hardened lead. But I've shot a bunch of the hardened lead bullet too, and can't really complain too much.

Concerning cleaning brass. The easiest way is to take a milk jug with some soapy water with you to the range. Put all your spent brass in the jug. The drive home will agitate them good, especially on Oklahoma roads. I've also vinegar cleaned, but with a diluted vinegar/water mix, and only let them soak for a few minutes.

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 11:46 PM
Pulp, although I totally agree that high quality soft-cast plain-base bullets are THE best way to go, I'll have to admit suprise at how well the USFA does with most any bullet....I think the soft PB bullet helps most with revolvers with internal dimension problems by obturating better....ditto the oversize factory hollow-base in Remington and Winchester loads.....also will hypothesize the heavy (35grs+ 3f) load possibly obturates even the hardcast to a degree.....but, mainly, the USFA minimum chamber, .4525" cylinder throats and matching .452" bore free of choke at the frame allows some mighty good shooting with the bevelbase hardcast, as they'll fit as designed....the good soft homebrew lube seals the deal, doing what BP lubes are supposed to do.
The lube leaves a light greasy coat on cylinder face and at the muzzle, and that's about it.....with 50rds straight, the gun ran like it was just cleaned, with zero leading in the bore (kudos to the USFA tolerances again).

There seems to be a bit of confusion on what chemicals hurt what (not on your behalf)....strong ammonia certainly isn't good for brass, and even will etch steel if left long enough.....vinegar makes a great blueing remover, which I have used to great effect on USFA Rodeos......but normal dilute household ammonia cleaning stuff like Parsons, or Windex w/Ammonia-D work great at cutting/nuetralizing BP fouling and salts with NO harm to finish, especially straight Windex or a sinkfull of hot water with a healthy splash of Parsons thrown in. If the ammonia bothers a shooter, Murphy's Oil Soap is also used to great effect.....I haven't tried Windex with vinegar for reasons I'd think are apparent.

My state roads must be a bit better....I have to manually agitate the jug a couple of times.....

mtngunr
September 13, 2008, 11:52 PM
Mike, that Smith STILL looks marvelous....simply mah'vlus.....

mykeal
September 14, 2008, 01:59 AM
posted by mistake, post deleted.

Smokin_Gun
September 14, 2008, 06:20 AM
using nothing but commercial hardcast bullets and a microwave, entirely satisfactory

Mtngunr, That comment made me read the rest of your Post, you really put Zinc alloy lead hardcast boolits in a micro wave and turn it on? Why not a Confection oven there is less chance of burning your house down.
Anyway whatever you like is fine as long as it's you doin' it.

Most of the rest I am down with the lube you would put on Home cast Soft lead boolits that expand twice the size a silhouette bullet. And if I buy lube boolits in a box I ain't removin' lube. But again I don't buy store bought boolits.

I don't use amonia on Blued or any type of BP firearm. I use very very hot ouch! it burns soapy water and Stator Bros. Blue or Green bottle dish soap is great. With Scaldin hot so the metal actually dries itself after wipin' it down..

The Primer well, it's usually fffg BP unless you use ffg and have a need to use that Magienum primer otherwise 35gr of FFFG can only burn so fast...a cap sets it off right now, ya know what I mean Vern?

Otherwise I liked your post and probly agree with you on it.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/FireShow.jpg

SG

Eric F
September 14, 2008, 08:11 AM
Lead in a micro wave oven............Where as I can see this just getting hot but not sparking as lead is non ferus metal, even warm lead emits lead particles into the air, I hope for your sake ant the sake of others this is a dedicated micro wave oven for which you do not place any food in. Lead poison is no joke..........

Ammonia......its an oxidizer it will rust metal and quiclkly, I am not sure of your wisdom on this for a cleaner, soap and water have worked for centuries now.

And last is the toss cases in soapy water, Sulpher is a compound in BP when sulpher and water come in contact you get acid, not good on brass, unless you have a really large quantity of water say a gallon per 10-20 rounds you need to be some what quick to a rinse over a period of just a few hours the mild acid will eat the brass and weaken it. Might be better to leave the cases dry until you can get to a source of running water where you can fill up a jug with a few drops of soap shake dump and repeat a few times then dump in the tumbler.

other than these issues and the brass thing being minor its a good read.

As a note I have read but never tried this if you put the bullits in boiling water and melt the lub off let them cool you can scrape the lube off the top of the water and pick up the freshly un lubed bullets after you drain the water. Use a dedicated pot on a burner of some fassion out doors again lead issued with this too execpt the lead is confined to the water.

mtngunr
September 14, 2008, 09:22 AM
The bullets get between warm and hot to the touch in the microwave, IF you do your part....at no point do they become hot enough to give off any sort of vapors associated with melting lead....otherwise, lead doesn't "emit" particles like kryponite or something.....but sure, if you think using an oven is safer, go right ahead, but all you'll accomplish is spinning the power meter faster.

I've never had a lick of trouble placing the fired/deprimed cases in a jug of soapy water until arriving home, and HAVE experienced hard caking and corrosion before getting home if the jug were NOT used....one specialized piece of equipment I DO recommend for new shooters is getting a universal decapper to keep crud out of loading dies when decapping/dunking.

Most objections raised against my original post have been purely theoretical, whereas my post is based on experience.....the 350 primers have worked best every time...primers in loaded cartridges do NOT perform like 209 primers with muzzleloaders.

Diluted houehold cleaners containing ammonia don't harm steel or finishes in the slightest, and I doubt they do much harm to brass, so long as both are rinsed off with hot water.....I don't leave guns or brass soaking in plain water overlong, either, as water is a sure-nuff oxidizer, too.

There's a bunch of different ways of running/maintaining black powder cartridge guns....this is an easy way for beginners (or anyone else)....you want to do it different, be my guest......but, argue is another story.....you're arguing with 1"/25yd/standing-braced groups after almost 50rds straight, so it WORKS.

scrat
September 14, 2008, 01:20 PM
Im not saying it doesnt work. First of all your on the black powder forums. Not the smokeless powder forum. For most of us if you want to shoot 45 Colt then you need to have a competant revolver and must purchase a Conversion Cylinder. As for cleaning up black powder. Well again your on the black powder forums. So if we dont know how to clean our guns then we have a problem. As for making cartridges. Most people who shoot black powder cast their own. Those who dont buy powder, caps, balls, patches and conicals. Those of us who cast and dont already know the size of the bullets we need and what we need to accomplish. Same time for those that purchase a conversion cylinder its not a question of wanting to try 45 colt. If we didnt want to try 45 colt why would we buy a conversion cylinder. What decisions need to be made now is what do you want to shoot. Now we all know that low powered cowboy action loads is what we need to be shooting. Not high velocity loads. As we are shooting these out of Cap and Ball Revolvers. We talked about this before and i would still recomend low charges. Using a filler or not using 45 colt cases but 45 schofield. We talked about this already. in fact i just got my 45 schofields this week. If your having success using a microwave then so be it. I do not think its wise to go on a public forum and tell people to use a microwave. What makes sense is to find out what the lube is that was used in the first place. Then it makes better sense to use a pot with boiling water. As for the way you lube the bullets. This is called pan lubing. its been around a long time. It actually works better with a punch. Lee used to make a kit years ago. Its a very slow method of lubing. One might find its easier to hold the bullet by the front and use spg lube running it over the grooves or using your finger to apply the lube into the grooves. Opposed to panning. Panning is a pain and does not always come out correctly. sometimes when striking the bullet from the lube they will come out with too much lube or the lube will not be in the lube grooves. this is why the punch was used. As for accuracy. Accuracy will be an individual thing. Some revolvers may or may not achieve this accuracy. When shooting a conversion cylinder you may sometimes find that cap and ball shooting is more accurate than shooting a conversion cylinder. The loads may or may not make a difference. as a reloader and shooter you need to try out different combinations per gun to achieve a desired effect regardless of who is telling you what works.

mtngunr
September 14, 2008, 02:43 PM
scrat, it's apparent that several of you here look upon this sub-forum as your own little kingdom, and that you can't wait to try to pick apart a newcomer's post.

This is the Blackpowder Shooting forum.....NOT the muzzleloading forum, civil war weapons forum, CAS forum or buckskinner's forum....shooting cartridges/guns designed in 1873 is plenty enough antique for this forum.....if blackpowder cartridges don't interest you, then pass over the thread.

I'll take issue with your unproven assertion that "most" BP shooters do their own casting/lubing......I'd go as far as to say that most BP shooters purchase 20:1 cast/soft-lubed bullets from specialty suppliers such as www.cowboybullets.com, or (and even more likely) shoot a majority of swaged balls from vendors such as Hornady and Speer, and that most black powder shooters have never run/cast a ball in their life, and certainly don't own a ball mold.....and many of these same shooters have struggled with getting commercial hard-cast to shoot well with BP before giving up in disgust.

Your comment of Now we all know that low powered cowboy action loads is what we need to be shooting. Not high velocity loads. As we are shooting these out of Cap and Ball Revolvers. We talked about this before just leaves me scratching my head....most folk would agree "high velocity" and "black powder" are mutually exclusive terms, where you'd be lucky to see 1000fps with a .45Colt using black powder....and "we" don't all shoot C&B revolvers exclusively....

The original post reached out to those/new sorts of shooters, not self-appointed experts. I have been casting/handloading/shooting for over 30yrs, and I wasn't born knowledgeable about any of this stuff.....and neither have been any of the new shooters that show up on sites like this...

New shooters might be more inclined to give BP cartridge or muzzleloading a whirl with simple-to-try kitchen-sink handloading, and might then move on to more advanced methods.....they are certainly scared off by experts proclaiming you have to cast your own soft bullets, buy speciality lubes, own/operate a lubrisizer, own double-boilers, convection ovens etc if you want decent results....my posts take issue with such assertions, and always will......so, why don't you cease and desist from trying to throw a monkey-wrench into things? I find it petty and meanspirited.

I didn't claim to invent pan lubing....it's NOT messy if the lube isn't left to goo consistancy, and sticky beeswax base will give 100% groove filling, and without tracking down a KakeKutter.

mtngunr
September 14, 2008, 03:18 PM
There seems to be a wide streak of paranoia or resistance to trying the microwave...so, I'll add a few safety caveats.

It entered my mind when first trying the bullets that even if things didn't spark (and they didn't), there might remain an airpocket in poorly cast bullets that might cause a rupture as the bullet heated up.....this is why I mentioned using a low setting on the microwave, and keeping an eye/hand on things....plus, too hot a bullet will melt the tupperware.

Ditto the lube mix in the tupperware....nuke until liquid, and then stop....the wax/oil are self-mixing, no stirring required.....flimsy plastic might warp from heat.

Don't use the tupperware in contact with the lead for any food uses, just to be safe.

Don't stick your finger in light sockets, try to mug a uniformed cop, or call-in sick at work with the excuse of "abducted by aliens."

Son of Sam
September 14, 2008, 07:59 PM
I think the "kitchen sink" reloading information is definitely pertinent, especially in these crazy times we live in, and I found the thread to be mostly informative. (I love makeshift ways of doing things even if it takes alot more time and effort to get reasonably good results. One never knows when the commercial ways or materials/channels will dry up and what then?).

The KNOWLEDGE to do what needs to be done with minimal tools, common materials, and much ingenuity is not always commonplace, let's face it. IMHO, it is extremely important if you value your God given freedom, though, and I prefer to learn from those who have done it than to stumble along all by my lonesome. Even the rebuttals by naysayers are important to me in any thread.

I don't go for the microwave idea unless really necessary, myself. That's my decision to make. Then again, I prefer to have already done things the "open fire/cast iron pot/bellows" way at least a couple of times just to know how if need be, so knowing it can be done in a microwave is nice for the flipside of the coin, too!

All in all, I think this is a great thread. Wish there were more like it here at THR. It's WAY better than re-reading old questions in new threads that have been answered countless thousands of times because people cannot locate the search button, IMHO. :)

mtngunr
September 14, 2008, 08:15 PM
Thanks, SOS...there are surely better ways of loading BP handgun cartridges....this one's just field-expedient for those wanting to give it whirl with hope for success....personally, I recommend 20:1 plain-base bullets with deep-cornered large lube grooves for all non-manglem handgunning, but that's just me....lube batches larger than experimental are much more efficiently done with a double-boiler, with numerous cakes cast and put aside....the lube itself works about as well as any, in my experience, with BP, anyhow....the bevel-base bullets with shallow grooves would probably allow blow-by leading and run out of lube going down longer barrels....the bullet lubing via cake/pan method is suprisingly efficient and tidy, and unless as-cast diameters are too large to chamber in loaded rounds, sizing is sorta wasted to some degree....glad you found some of it of interest.

There are many successful loading/lubing-recipes/cleaning methods...this just happens to be one of them.

mtngunr
September 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Just sort of a microwave vs. alternate method delubing of cheap bullets update.

I was suprised small batches of the bullets that I nuked didn't spark....in fact, your bullets might spark, large batches might spark, etc etc...

Several responders to the thread suggested boiling them....I've never tried that one myself....never needed to, actually, being a caster/loader myself....but gave it a try today.

Firstly, you'll about wreck any pot you try it in....at least the red crayon hard lube on bullets I boiled will wreck a pot.

After cooling (which takes a while even to get to where you might try the fridge), it left a frothy plastic-like scum on the water, and caked on plastic-like residue on the pot....bullets are clean enough, as pouring hot lube on them will finish the job when pan lubing....but, it does work.

scrat
September 15, 2008, 08:35 PM
Ok lets add to this on a positive note.
Im still against the metal in a microwave. However i still welcome guys to load 45 colt. Here are a couple of well respected casters that sell unlubed and lubed bullets.

Keeds bullets
http://www.keadbullets.com/45_Colt.htm
unlubed
9.51 for 100

Buffaloarms (fantastic bullets come lubed with spg which is an excellent black powder lube)

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=13&catid=84&step=2
14.99 for 100

Now bp shooters i typically use my black powder measure. pour in 35 grains of 3f then press the bullet to meet the powder.

Coyote Hunter
September 16, 2008, 11:59 AM
Here's my super low-tek way I've been doing for years on hundreds of .45 rounds and never a miss fire or hickup.

I use an old lee hand loader and rubber mallet. My powder flask set at 30 or 35 grains, according to how I feel that day. (I do mark the boxes according to grains), my gunstore bought lead bullets (made by the owner's friend I think. I buy 500 at a time). Then I begin taking out my aggressions and start wacking with the old mallet.

Now, sub one inch groups at 25 yards I won't get, but I can usually keep em in the black and for defence against man or beastie, I trust them 100%.

I bought and shot up some 45 schoffield and have reloaded them at 25 grains 3fg. I actually like them a little better as far as recoil and you don't need filler.

mtngunr
September 17, 2008, 12:46 AM
I did my very first handloading with a Lee .45ACP Loader...many happy hours at the cobbler's bench, banging away.....

scrat
September 17, 2008, 12:50 AM
hahahah i got you beat i have a whole bunch of lee loaders. The hardest worst i ever did. Will never do again was 30-06. Talk about banging with a hammer. wow

PRM
September 21, 2008, 11:24 AM
MEC,

That is one nice gun.

mec
September 21, 2008, 12:43 PM
it is kind of cute

Jim Watson
September 21, 2008, 12:48 PM
I don't load BP for revolver, but I do shoot a little BPCR and will comment on only such stuff as will work across the board.

It is normal if not universal to decap black powder brass at the range and drop in soapy water for the trip home.

I used to scrub out each case with a test tube brush, then dry and run in a vibratory tumbler with nuthull. They ended up clean but tarnished.
Now I clean and polish them in a rotary tumbler with wet ceramic medium. Takes a little time to rinse and dry but those suckers are CLEAN and shiny.

I clean my rifle on the range with Windex All-Surface + vinegar diluted 50:50 as recommended by Mike Venturino. Cleans the gun and I am sure I have dripped some on the blue without eating it off.

I am not at present set up to cast, so I am shooting bought bullets. I was fortunate to find an outfit that had the same mould I had been using, so I did not have to fiddle with my loads. I note that most suppliers have soft cast pistol bullets with black powder lube, no need to improvise.

dwave
September 21, 2008, 06:47 PM
*Note: I am not responsible if you try it.

Just to get that out of the way. I don't think that I am doing anything dangerous, but hey just in case! :)

Reloading .45 Colt for me is easy. After the first fire'n I don't resize, I just deprime (brass goes into the same revolver and I haven't had any problems with the non-resized brass yet. If you have 1 chamber larger than the others, it could become a problem though.) I use regular Large Pistol primers and load it up with 30 grs. of FFG 777. Bullets are .454 255 gr. FP. Other .45 colts use .452 for lead, but my barrel slugged out at .454 so..... (cylinder mouths too).

Eric F
September 21, 2008, 10:19 PM
Windex All-Surface
Does not seem to contain any vinigar or amonia see this http://www.scjohnson.com/msds_us_ca/PDFs/126002008_Windex_Multi_Surface_Vinegar.PDF

with a ph of 9.5 to 10.5 at best it could only be a very mild corrosive being equal to ordinary hand soap.

me, to clean at the range I run 2 wet patches(spit usually) and 2 dry patches, 2 hour ride home and clean with hot soapy water.

the brass issue. So long ad you have plenty of water there shouldnt be a problem if it is for a short period of time. Deprime dont deprime I dont see a real diffrence other than prefrence. My method is now take dry brass home fill my sink with hot soapy water and drop brass in and agitate by hand rince and repeat rince again and let set for 5 minutes. Shake off excess water and tumble for an hour, deprime and tumble for another hour.

I did change my method after depriming and finding wet primer pockets.

Jim Watson
September 21, 2008, 11:08 PM
Sorry for the misnomer. I am actually using Windex MULTI Surface Cleaner With Vinegar, Ammonia Free. Or so says the label. But with a pH of 9.5 to 10.5, there is something in it to more than neutralize the acetic acid, that is a mild basic solution.

No matter, it cleans, as do a lot of other aqueous mixes. What counts is the water. The main constituent of black powder fouling is potassium carbonate, with small amounts of potassium sulfide, and likely some unburnt powder constituents.

scrat
September 22, 2008, 12:53 AM
its funny. i used vinegar to de blue my gun.

DixieTexian
September 22, 2008, 02:31 AM
Why even bother with lubing the bullets at all? Just smear some Bore Butter over the chamber mouths like a cap-n-ball.:neener:

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