A Rant In Progress.....


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Dave McCracken
September 13, 2008, 09:23 PM
Some things have been irking me, and maybe it's time to get these off my massive and manly chest.

No, not the usual things like PGO shotguns,ChiCom clone guns or folks taking pics of new looking shotguns and posting them on what Oleg says is my turf.

Well, no more than usual....

Here's a couple things that have been yanking my chain of late. Maybe you can identify.

First, and least, is folks who refer to their shotguns as "Shotties".

I doubt Myashi called his swords the Medieval Japanese equivalent of Washi instead of Washikazi,Katie instead of Katana,etc.

And while I've many friends with high dollar shotguns, I don't hear them referred to as Kreiggies, Parkies, ad nauseam.

Not to get all mystical and spiritual on this, but I think respecting the tools is a step towards using them better.

Of course, this doesn't mean we can't call our best shotgun a messed up piece of trash next time it misses, but you can get my meaning.

Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

If the perpetrators didn't want their loved ones to shoot, they could just have refused to take them.

Idiots like this deserve flaying or impalement. Or made to labor eternally in Hades shooting trap with 5 lb 10 gauges with wood chisel butts.

And finally, the latest thing that causeth my gorge to rise is folks who aren't going to vote this election, or who aren't going to make the Second Amendment the fulcrum on which their vote swings.

We won Heller by one Justice. The next Prez will get to pick three Justices at least.

The wrong vote or no vote can leave us bitterly clinging to our religions, because we sure as heck may not get to cling to our guns.

[/rant].....

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Rembrandt
September 13, 2008, 09:38 PM
....First, and least, is folks who refer to their shotguns as "Shotties".

The by-product of a society where language skills, spelling, and word craftsmanship have been relegated to abbreviation's, spell check, and one-to-two syllable words. We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?

Milkmaster
September 13, 2008, 09:42 PM
Well said Dave...

Did you have a bad day at the trap range or meet someone who just pushed you over the edge? I seldom see you rant here. It is nice to know you are human and especially nice to see you aren't always "politically correct" :)


I have been thiking about going ahead with my carry permit class before the election. My faith in my fellow voters is weak I guess. It makes my blood boil to see people voting for someone simply for color or charisma. I want to scream at them to at least look at what his/her positions are on a few basic points.


Guess that is enough politics for now.

rantingredneck
September 13, 2008, 09:47 PM
Amen Dave.

Though I have at times used the words Remmy or Mossy.

Shottie however is a particular peeve of mine as well.

RaisedByWolves
September 13, 2008, 09:55 PM
I have been guilty of using the "Shotty" word, please accept my apologies for I am new at this sport.


Is it still OK to Call my truck a Chevy?


.

Todd A
September 13, 2008, 10:04 PM
Your not alone. I don't like "shottie". Detest 3" magnum "funny tricks",and though I don't like political net talk I have always voted my guns.



Ohhh..and through my 500A is "ninjafied" some of us do shoot them.:)

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/toddma/100_0395.jpg

dogbob
September 13, 2008, 10:12 PM
Dear Dave, missed you at Chinese this week. If it makes you feel better I shot 11 or so.... Worst personal score ever!

I'd love to rant about things but that would not change anything that I ranted about.

I'm just glad to be alive and lucky to have so many wonderful people to be associated with.

Can't wait to see you the next time at P.G. Trap & Skeet.

I'll have some tomatoes with your name on them!


Brian

Jack R
September 13, 2008, 10:19 PM
Nailed It Again....dave, I Agree 100%

MAX100
September 13, 2008, 10:20 PM
Good Post! Gave me a laugh.


GC

Candiru
September 13, 2008, 11:34 PM
Well put.

I must confess to slipping a .357 into a cylinder of .38 my brother was about to shoot, but he was hardly just starting. It just earned me a dirty look and, on the bright side, he now loads all his own magazines and cylinders.

Also, it should be noted that "shottie" has the exact same number of syllables and letters as "shotgun," so efficiency is no excuse to use the former term in person or in print.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a revolvie to clean...

Chuck Spears
September 13, 2008, 11:40 PM
So PGO shotguns aren't good for home defense?

PJR
September 14, 2008, 12:23 AM
Shotties is a minor irritation. I don't use the word and consider the people who do foolish.

Those clowns who think it's funny if their wives unknowingly shoot a magnum round should be cautious their wives don't meet me. I will seduce them back to shotgunning with a 28 gauge and introduce them to fine guns. When they return home they will know what a lout they married and you will be showered with demands for expensive guns and ammunition. I've done it before and look forward to doing again. :)

But those are minor concerns compared to not being politically active. It's not enough just to vote. Offer time, treasure and talent to the candidate and party of your choice. Consider it another form of Homeland Defence but in this case what you are defending is your preferred way of life and not having someone else impose theirs upon you.

Speedo66
September 14, 2008, 01:10 AM
I believe there was a post where someone said calling a shotgun a "shottie" or something stupid like that was a crime in the great state of SC. lol

Jst1mr
September 14, 2008, 01:15 AM
mall ninjas, "tacticool", zombies

Cactus Jack Arizona
September 14, 2008, 02:08 AM
It's good to know that the dumbing down of America's kids and young adults is well underway. The first time I heard the term Shotty was from kids playing Halo 3. One of the scenarios in the game is called "Shotty Snipes". This obviously means shotguns and sniper rifles. It is rather irritating.

On the flip side, I shot MY new shotgun today for the first time. :neener: This is also the first shotgun I've ever owned. WOW. I've heard stories about how much the 12ga kicks and I thought I was prepared for it, but it still caught me off guard. :what: Nothing I couldn't handle though. Of course, it will be more manageable once I replace the Factory forend and buttstock with an ATI forend pistol grip and pistol grip/buttstock combo. :D

CDignition
September 14, 2008, 02:09 AM
Slow posting day??

conw
September 14, 2008, 02:33 AM
Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

That irks me to no end, too. There are tons of youtube clips with that kind of thing on there.

Really makes me mad...

sm
September 14, 2008, 02:45 AM
Dave,

Thank you again for a excellent and much needed post.
You and others around here, know my take on all this.


Have hickory axe handle - will travel

*thwack*

Sunray
September 14, 2008, 03:12 AM
"...slipping a .357 into a cylinder of .38..." That is malicious. Not that it'd fit anyway, but you'd have earned a hard female dog slap for even thinking about it.
"...instead of Katana..." I think they actually had names, much like early BP rifles. Crocket, I think, named his rifle, but I'll hold 'em if you want to hit 'em. Or hit 'em if you want to hold 'em. The use of The Queen's English gets abused far too often.
"...ad nauseam..." It's ad nauseum, but I'll still hold 'em for ya'll.

theken206
September 14, 2008, 03:23 AM
sorry yall, been saying "shotty" as slang with friends for many years, an' I aint apt to stop any time soon.

"Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun."

this I do have a bit of a peeve about though........ really not a cool move


"So PGO shotguns aren't good for home defense?"

if your not into really really large pistols that are highly difficult to aim and kick like a mule with decent loadings even for us stout strong young fellers......then no

alsaqr
September 14, 2008, 07:01 AM
"Bullet" when used to describe a cartridge. "Bullet" casing instead of cartridge case.

Grunt
September 14, 2008, 08:00 AM
"Shotty"...kind of like the shooting worlds "e-bonics" IMHO.

76shuvlinoff
September 14, 2008, 08:07 AM
Moving into my middle years I find there are things to fight about, things to just grit your teeth about, and things that just make you go ..huh?. On this (wonderful?) internet we are dealing with different regions, customs, and dialects from all over the world ....not to mention the generational spread among the posters on any given thread.
Personally one of my own civil disobedience measures is to refuse to use spell check or bother with correct grammar. I'm such a freakin' rebel.
:evil:

DaleCooper51
September 14, 2008, 08:37 AM
"Shotty" does annoy me, but not as much as deagle, snapping a revolver cylinder shut with a flick of the wrist, or shooting gangster style at a 90 degree cant. Although annoying at least it is not harmful to the gun or potentially dangerous to those in the lane next to them at the range.

Having been the butt of the high powered cartridge joke when I was younger, I find it in rather poor taste. I was shooting light loads from a 45-70 and the jacka** slipped a freight train hunting load in there without telling me. He and his buddies got one hell of a laugh out of it and I left bruised up and never shot with him again. Whenever I take a new person out shooting, I always start them off with a 22lr and wait for them to ask me about shooting something bigger and gradually move them up. Over the last few years, I have started a bunch of new shooters and not one of them has quit due to a bruised shoulder or ego from being the brunt of a joke.

Everyone has different political opinions. I respect but not always agree with peoples point of view and have always maintained that no one has a right to complain if if they do not make the effort to vote.

chas08
September 14, 2008, 09:25 AM
Good post, hope you feel better now. Don't worry... McCain/08.:)

BruceRDucer
September 14, 2008, 10:09 AM
/

*ISSUE THE FIRST*

I think respecting the tools is a step towards using them better.---Dave McCracken


It is a valid point. Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge.

Good point McCracken. You are doing your job.

____________________________________________

**ISSUE THE SECOND**

]"...a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load."----Dave McCracken


Again, you are doing your job, providing leadership ethics. I agree with this, because not only can people be injured, it violates the bond of trust which should exist between INSTRUCTOR / STUDENT if not FRIENDS & FAMILY.

Besides, it is a proverbialism that MEAN PEOPLE SUCK.

The ethic is especially important for a website, that encourages and desires membership. Otherwise, it seems that the idea is to laugh at and ridicule the general public and Novice shooters. Any attitude like that can virtually kill a website outright.

You know, we met a guy at the annual get-together, who had been lurking for several years, and never posted. I wonder if this indicates how sensitive some people can be, to the possibilities of being ridiculed for your grammar, your lack of knowledge, or just being thought badly of by "rounders" who do nothing but look "down" on you for posting a question, etc.

Good gripes, McCracken, and absolutely Top Drawer.

:):):):):):):):):uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::what::what::what:

JImbothefiveth
September 14, 2008, 10:26 AM
The wrong vote or no vote can leave us bitterly clinging to our religions, because we sure as heck may not get to cling to our guns.

Way ahead of you.

I'd also like to add that voting third party is just as bad as not voting at all.

Detest 3" magnum "funny tricks
+1


Or shooting gangster style at a 90 degree cant.
+10

MMCSRET
September 14, 2008, 10:45 AM
Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology. I own and use a number of shotguns, but none of them well and it is not the guns fault!!!!

Leadhead
September 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
What really pisses me off is people who insist on being different then me!:mad:
I mean they like different music, books, guns,words etc....why can't we all be the same?:confused:

;)

Actually, I try not to get upset by external factors..... I got enough internal crap to deal with.....but I don't like the sound of "shottie" either it seems to be a mix of shi ty and potty which are not terms I would use to describe any of my shotguns.

Athanasius
September 14, 2008, 11:44 AM
Jimbothefifth

does this include the primary elections? I live in a guarenteed mccain state. I'm thinking about writing in ron paul as a kind of silent rebellion. I still say the media didn't do many of the candidates justice and is run by big money.... which runs the govt.

Hollywood Marine
September 14, 2008, 11:54 AM
Sheez, you miss a geezer shoot and get all grouchy on us. Any way, good post Dave, I'm with you 110%

boomvark
September 14, 2008, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Dave McCracken:
[...] two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

Ooohh, now that is canonical rant fodder. From what I've seen on YouTube and various forums, there are more than a few such people. Nobody has ever pulled this crap in front of me in my adult life, though, and it's just as well; I might very well go off on him (verbally!) right then and there.

<rant mode="TMI">
I have personal reasons for this reaction: My dad did the same thing to me, but in a deliberate effort to kill my interest in shooting. Magnum 00 buck in an old H&R Topper 158 12-gauge is no fun for a good-sized adult; for a decidedly runty 12-year-old, it borders on child abuse. The look on his face when I insisted on shooting up the rest of the 5-pack was priceless (and practically indescribable). It took a week to get over the pain, and the bruises lasted longer. It took six months of serious work to get over the flinch. But the long-term satisfaction--and being mostly left alone for the duration--was worth every bit of that.
</rant>

BTW, I still have that shotgun, and take particular pleasure in shooting it. With the right loads, it really isn't half bad for singles trap.

Originally posted by Sunray:
"...ad nauseam..." It's ad nauseum, but I'll still hold 'em for ya'll.


That's what the vast majority of people in the English-speaking world seem to think, but ... no. It really is "ad nauseam".

http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/lphrase.html

And just to show this isn't uniquely a US quirk:
http://latin-phrases.co.uk/dictionary/a/

Anyone who wants to can have hours of fun with either one of those sources, and incidentally acquire enough gratuitous Latin to make people leave him alone at parties he really didn't want to attend in the first place.

:)

plumberroy
September 14, 2008, 01:15 PM
Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

If the perpetrators didn't want their loved ones to shoot, they could just have refused to take them.

Doing this to a begainner is unacceptable,
doing it to a smart-ass-know-it-all is fun :evil: Heck I'll even go first sometimes (most 300# hillbillies aren;t recoil sensitive;))
McCain08
Palin 2012:D
Roy

Flyboy
September 14, 2008, 03:07 PM
We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?
Based on what I've seen so far, fingers.

Rant on, Dave.

torpid
September 14, 2008, 03:25 PM
The by-product of a society where language skills, spelling, and word craftsmanship have been relegated to abbreviation's, spell check, and one-to-two syllable words.

And, of course, incorrect apostrophe usage. :D

PJR
September 14, 2008, 04:11 PM
Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology.Up to a point I don't disagree but there is a limit. Not everyone shares the same breadth of volcabulary particularly when it comes to shotgun.

I would for example not snub someone who incorrectly used the term "furniture" when describing a gun stock.

torpid
September 14, 2008, 04:37 PM
Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology.

Well, this thread (and in particular this quoted post) have actually inspired me to be a bit less critical of people's use of slang at the range.

Thanks, I guess. :)

Chuck Spears
September 14, 2008, 05:47 PM
"So PGO shotguns aren't good for home defense?"

if your not into really really large pistols that are highly difficult to aim and kick like a mule with decent loadings even for us stout strong young fellers......then no

I was just kidding. But as far as calling one a "shotty" I don't really have a problem. I'm sure old men were shaking their fists when some young whippersnappers starting referring to their pantaloons as "pants." Vernacular evolves. Expecting it to stay the same as you've always known it would be vain.

Chuck Spears
September 14, 2008, 06:06 PM
Speak of the devil. Look what I found:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4914794&postcount=85

Go get him!

Loomis
September 14, 2008, 06:32 PM
"I'd also like to add that voting third party is just as bad as not voting at all."


Oh, no, I dissagree. It entirely depends on who their second choice is. If their second pic for prez is a gun grabber, by all means, let them vote third party. And in that case, your phrase "just as bad" can be replaced with "just as good".
:)

conw
September 14, 2008, 07:42 PM
Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge.

How do slang terms suggest hierarchy any more than jargon words, which are usually necessary? Aren't there insiders or outsiders with any hobby or sport? The democratic part should be deciding which you, personally, happen to be.

Plus, I think most people could figure out what a "shotty" is - they'd just be annoyed in the process of doing so.

BruceRDucer
September 14, 2008, 10:11 PM
/

Quote:
We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?

"Based on what I've seen so far, fingers."---Flyboy

That's PRICELESS Flyboy.:):):):):)

---------------------------------------------------------------

STATEMENT:

"Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge."---BruceRDucer

QUESTION THE FIRST:

"How do slang terms suggest hierarchy any more than jargon words, which are usually necessary? "-----Conwict



"Plus, I think most people could figure out what a "shotty" is - they'd just be annoyed in the process of doing so." ------Conwict

ANSWER THE FIRST:

I was not familiar with a SHOTTIE when I first got here about 9 months ago. I had to figure out the term.

I do not know that there is a distinction between "jargon" and "slang". It seems that both may be used in the same way.

One identifiable fact however, may the the specific context in which it is used.

For example, in a private conversation concerning a firearm, two acquaintances may use either slang or jargon with equal familiarity, and there is no identifiable negative impact, because it is private.

A public forum is a different matter. It is entirely public, not private, and language can be used to create a barrier of separation between the general public who visits, and people who know each other, and know the subject they discuss.

-------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION THE SECOND:

"Aren't there insiders or outsiders with any hobby or sport?"-----Conwict

ANSWER THE SECOND:

Yes there certainly are.

But we may well ask if it is the policy of this particular forum to distinguish in a prejudicial way, a clear distinction by way of jargon or slang between "insiders or outsiders".


Any public forum, and especially one which espouses a specific advocacy, such as Second Amendment Rights, Firearms Safety, Concealed Carry issues, and arguments about increased Gun Control will want to ENLARGE, rather than DIMINISH its client base.

Such a public forum will most benefit by policies which draw mainstream citizens into its fold, rather than offer messages which suggest that only users of "insider" jargon are welcome, and the rest can stay or go as they choose, and the owner/operator/moderators don't care one way or the other.

Therefore, if the forum and the general public and firearms owners can benefit by a more informed public, it will best serve the interests to have as many of the general public as possible feel welcome, so that they might join us in advocating the Right To Keep And Bear Arms. If the generally uninformed public does not feel welcome, or cannot identify with other forum users in plain language, they may very well decline to participate, and even to adopt the opposite point of view.

This can be particularly so if they feel that forum "insiders" are actually thoughtless thugs, who are all too happy to spray lead, or arcane language which excludes them from a common purpose and a common fellowship.

___________________________________________

QUESTION THE THIRD:


"The democratic part should be deciding which you, personally, happen to be."------Conwict

I would exercise personal caution about that, because it is in finality, an absolute value.

In public forums and public affairs, it is far wiser to always be diplomatic, and I would not pursue an advocacy that the critical distinction is whether the general public can be compelled to decide whether they are part of an "insider or outsider" group.


If group identification is merely to be established on the basis of a willingness or unwillingness to adopt jargon or slang, then we might well look to ghetto culture, where slang provides a quick and easy acceptance, and readily excludes all persons who use language that is generally appropriate and generally acceptable.

I might have my own THANG; but if such slang causes people to eschew my company in a public forum, or to feel alienated from my "insider" group's ethics or values, then I've contributed to the feeling that people who advocate RK&BA [Right to Keep & Bear Arms] only wish to associate with their own kind, and worse, do not share common values with the rest of society.

It is much better Conwict, to make as many people as possible, feel that we are in every way just everyday working people, who care about human life, the property and feelings of others, and who propose Self Defense in the most responsible manner possible.

:)

Dave McCracken
September 14, 2008, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the responses, folks. I DO feel a bit better.

Mising a Geezer shoot wasn't the cause. This has been building a while.

"Shotty" does bug me, though Chevy and Mossie do not. Maybe I like and respect them too much to feel the term is appropriate.

And, my Webster's Unabridged says it's ad nauseam. So there....

Back to "Shotty". If you use the term in my presence I shan't cast the first stone. The term jars me a bit, but I'm full grown and expect less than complete conformity to my wishes in the world. If a newbie uses it, so be it.

Louts, on the other hand, I'm less inclined to tolerate as I age. And those who pull stunts like these mentioned are, plain and simple, an enemy to us and ours.

Maybe as much as Sarah Brady.

As to voting, I've been doing it for a while, like 1968. I would like to have a presidential election once in my life where I didn't feel as if I had to choose the lesser of two evils. But then I'm an idealist.

RaisedByWolves
September 15, 2008, 12:37 AM
"though Chevy and Mossie do not"



:D Thanks for letting the new guy get his feet wet.



I even gave the wife managed recoil target loads for her first shotti..... Er..... Shotgun shoot. She knocked off 5 in a row to my surprise, didnt come no where near the birds, but it was a good start.



.

stiletto raggio
September 15, 2008, 12:43 AM
Yo, D-bizzle! Why the hate, dawg? I just love takin' my shotty out, droppin' a maggnum in da chamber and handin's it to shorty. Shoot, dawg! Her shoulder be black and blizzue 4 dayz!

All kidding aside: I do not think Obama is a Muslim (and I don't consider being Muslim a bad thing). I do not think he is stupid or evil or out to defile the Constitution. I do think he is a left-winger and a product of one of the most corrupt political environments in the country. I believe he is beholden to traditional liberal interests, namely organized labor and feel-good nanny-staters, and that he sees the Second Amendment as not only expendable but primative. I think he will do whatever the American people will allow him to get away with should he get elected, and that if that happens, we need to be very conscious of what that entails.

But all is not lost, even if Obama gets elected. Congress just has to know that there are lines you don't cross, and there are many democrats who, while they may not personally give a damn about gun rights, know that their constituents do. Instead of throwing up our hands and stocking up on primers if Obama wins, we need to double the pressure on our elected representatives in congress. There will be no new AWB if the "red state democrats" stand their ground against the party leadership and represent their people honestly.

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 12:49 AM
If you use the term in my presence I shan't cast the first stone. The term jars me a bit, but I'm full grown and expect less than complete conformity to my wishes in the world. If a newbie uses it, so be it.

Well Dave, was going to respond to your original "shotty" rant with :rolleyes:, but given the above, I will go with ;).

Words are just words. People give them power. Besides, every word, no matter what it is, can be useful in the proper context.


-T.

GigaBuist
September 15, 2008, 12:56 AM
First, and least, is folks who refer to their shotguns as "Shotties".
This also annoys me. The term, as somebody else already mentioned, has been popularized by the Halo series of games. Nothing about the weapons in the game resemble reality, so I immediately dump anybody using the term into the "uninformed" category. Much like folks that use the term "Deagle" when talking about a Desert Eagle. Counterstrike is to blame for that one.

Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

I'm guilty of that... sorta. :D I let my uncle shoot a Vaquero in .44 Mag after watching me shoot a full cylinder of Magtech .44 Mag from it. Thing was, I loaded the 1st 5 cylinders with .44SPL Winchester Cowboy loads and only one real .44 Mag when I handed it to him. He got real complacent with that thing, and by the 6th cylinder he was shooting one handed. He didn't hurt himself, which was never my goal, but his eyes sure did get real big and wide. :D

He had it coming. You'll have to trust me on this one.

GRB
September 15, 2008, 01:03 AM
Well it does not get my upset, but it concerns me that all too many voters are one issue voters. I do not vote based upon the RKBA alone, that would be ludicrous and a waste of my vote in many cases. That you do not like it - well tough noogies with all due respect. When I vote I try to base my decision on whom I beleive to be the best candidate to serve the people based upon multiple issues and the RKBA may not be the end all be all of my decision making process when I cast my vote. Sure it is important, it is simply not the pivotal issue in all elections.

conw
September 15, 2008, 01:52 AM
Bruce, quite fair.

I didn't mean to sound disagreeable; in fact, I do get the gist of what you meant. But jargon is terminology outside the colloquy that applies to a specific endeavor (hobby, sport, profession, technology, etc). The way our language evolves, there is often a very blurry line between colloquy, jargon, and slang.

10-15 years ago, "ISP" would have miffed most people, as would "LOL" or "BRB." But now they're pretty much accepted aspects of our language (unless someone specifically avoids the internet - in which case they are placing themselves outside the great majority of living persons in our culture).

I don't understand a lot of reloading jargon, for example, or military jargon that is used on here, but I can pursue it if I desire to (and believe me, I'm thankful for the resources on here that allow me to).

Anyway, I agree for the most part. I just think that for personal edification it's always a good idea to take a look at what you consider "normal" language, "slang," and why you consider them such. Before you know it, you might be saying the same thing in a few years.

Except for "shotty" of course :neener:

Dave McCracken
September 15, 2008, 07:45 AM
Shotty may become common usage, there's more video gamers these days that shotgunners. But I don't have to like it.

Acronyms don't irk me, I grew up right after WWII, when stuff like ASAP, FUBAR and SNAFU became common.

Raggio, well meaning idiots can do more damage than purely evil people sometimes. Manson killled a handful,the folks behind the AWB may have killed hundreds.

The IL political machine has been in more pockets than a buffalo nickel.

I always find it hard to completely support any candidate. I'm pro choice and education,anti big goverment,(yeah, I recognize the conflict) a lifetime registered Dem and a vehement supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. I term myself a Jeffersonian Democrat.

Ever see the Jefferson Memorial? As I recall, around the rim of the ceiling inside is written.....

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of Man "....

That's been a personal motto for close to 50 years....

Joe Cool
September 15, 2008, 07:56 AM
Dave - I can heartily agree with your second point about handing someone a shotgun with a magnum load. My spouse had her first and only shotgun experience that way as a little girl and she is still reticent to try out my shotgun. At least she likes shooting pistols with me...but I am slowly gaining her trust to try out my son's 20 gauge... with reduced recoil loads of course!

Dave McCracken
September 15, 2008, 10:18 AM
Good approach, Joe. Maybe a gift of a lesson or two from a qualified, FEMALE instructor will help.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 15, 2008, 10:19 AM
I don't mind shottie that much.

100% in agreement on the other issue, though.

foghornl
September 15, 2008, 10:32 AM
Had the 3" trick done to me when I was first learing about shotgunning.

I eventually returned the {ahem} favor to that {koff koff} ahhh 'gentleman' by slipping one of my duck loads into my Savage 94B 16-Ga and letting him have a go.

Have not done that since then.

Dave, I'll be happy to hold 'em while you "Whomp 'em upside the head with a wet squirrel".

MCgunner
September 15, 2008, 10:34 AM
Well, Dave, a cold Shiner Bock will make it all better. :D

MMCSRET
September 15, 2008, 10:57 AM
I'm well into my 60's and use my supposed hearing loss to my advantage. My hearing is good as tested regularly. That said, my grey hair and beard are an advantage, I can ignore with impunity and the "shotty,remmy,mossy " people just chalk it up to poor hearing. I love it. They always speak with full words when they do get my attention. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hawk
September 15, 2008, 11:26 AM
Spotted in a related rant in "general":
Wook at da widdle Bushy-Wooshy.
Does hims wants a lighty-wighty and an eotechy or a big boy ACOG-y?
Yes hims does!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375882
<chortle>

I believe there was one legitimate inclusion of the term "shottie" in the firearms lexicon: A spokesmodel at the SHOT show.

BruceRDucer
September 15, 2008, 01:57 PM
/
Thanks Conwict. I was only writing with the intention to be supportive of what Dave McCracken wrote.

Besides, sometimes I have trouble finding a topic to comment on. Everybody's more knowledgeable than me, and more experienced often as not. I'm in the middle of trying to find places to hunt small game with my Mossberg 500, which I have come to love, humble as it is.

:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

ShunZu
September 15, 2008, 02:14 PM
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of Man "....

That's been a personal motto for close to 50 years....

Good words to live by. I would no more call my Citori a shottie than I would my 700 a Rifie, or my PSE compound a Bowie... lest someone mistakenly think I was referring to a big knife. :p

Cosmoline
September 15, 2008, 02:20 PM
I'm not sure I understand why people get upset about the phrase "shotty." I don't use it myself but I do call them "scatterguns" quite frequently. I call my black powder rifles "smoke poles" or "fire sticks" as well. Why is "shotty" in particular so offensive?

Rokyudai
September 15, 2008, 02:21 PM
Tell ya what chief: I'll NEVER use the term 'shottie' if you agree never to refer to your chest as 'massive' and/or 'manly'. I hope you feel better now that this wave of curmudgeonliness is over.

LOL

Rok

MMCSRET
September 15, 2008, 02:58 PM
The term 'scattergun' has some historical significance, therefore it is grandfathered in. Smoke pole and firestick are also referenced in writings from early America.

torpid
September 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
The term 'scattergun' has some historical significance, therefore it is grandfathered in. Smoke pole and firestick are also referenced in writings from early America.

Why grandfather them in?
Weren't those just examples of "denigration of terms and terminology" of their day? :p

JohnBT
September 15, 2008, 05:33 PM
"Why is "shotty" in particular so offensive?"

It is terminally cute. Cutsey cute. Oh so cute. Shotty has 2 syllables and so does shotgun, so it's not like anyone is saving any time and energy with an abbreviation. Nuts, it's only one letter shorter, too.

It's just so cute. Not a cute as a puppy, but a lot more useless. :)

John

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 06:22 PM
Mmm-hmm. Manly men go limp when their guns are referred to as "cute". Can't have that.

:rolleyes:


-T.

throdgrain
September 15, 2008, 06:40 PM
I dont like the term Shottie either, glad there's people here who agree! Would you call you pistol a Pissy? :D

SuperNaut
September 15, 2008, 06:45 PM
Did I miss any Boom-Stick references?

http://www.iconsoffright.com/Elias/boomstick.jpg

conw
September 15, 2008, 06:52 PM
The term 'scattergun' has some historical significance, therefore it is grandfathered in. Smoke pole and firestick are also referenced in writings from early America.

Hopefully this is tongue-in-cheek, but I hope you aren't suggesting that we freeze all linguistic progress and jump all over anyone who uses a recently coined word.

PS, I'm not taking sides or trying to bash anyone, but shottie does annoy me. It's natural to be annoyed by some new usages of words (like, I hate when people say "invite" in place of "invitation" - "thanks for the invite")

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 06:56 PM
The term 'scattergun' has some historical significance, therefore it is grandfathered in. Smoke pole and firestick are also referenced in writings from early America.

You know, assuming this country lasts long enough, today could one day be referred to as "early America".


-T.

SuperNaut
September 15, 2008, 07:05 PM
You know, assuming this country lasts long enough, today could one day be referred to as "early America".

As long as I get to wear a tricorne.

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 07:15 PM
http://www.costumesofnashua.com/CNWebSite105/Active905/Pictures/PicHat/HPirate/hatPirateEA3455.jpg


-T.

SuperNaut
September 15, 2008, 07:19 PM
*dances jig*

Dave McCracken
September 15, 2008, 09:33 PM
Shiner sounds good, but my limit's one. And I'd better skip carbs at dinner if I do.

Thanks, Bruce. BTW, a 500 is, IMO, a good gun. Enjoy....

Rok, at 62, I still take a size 50 coat and can lift 100 pounds without grunting. Massive and manly applies. Refer to the Geezer Pics Bobdog has posted.

"Scattergun" is something I don't use either. Dunno why.

Nor "Boomstick". That movie is so bad it's funny.

BruceRDucer
September 15, 2008, 09:57 PM
Mmm-hmm. Manly men go limp when their guns are referred to as "cute". Can't have that.--Thernlund


No doubt "Pretty" in reference to a shotgun, is inappropriate?

:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

Well, how come some guns are called "Betsy"?

(Betcha didn't think of that, didja?):neener::neener::neener:

JohnBT
September 15, 2008, 10:10 PM
"Manly men go limp when their guns are referred to as "cute"."

Really? I did not know that. Must be the blessed silence of earplugs. :)

Chuck Spears
September 16, 2008, 12:03 AM
Did I miss any Boom-Stick references?

That's actually the exact term I use for my shotgun. Then again, I'm a big Bruce Campbell fan and the people around me when I use that term understand where it comes from.

forrestd
September 16, 2008, 01:57 AM
Rok, at 62, I still take a size 50 coat and can lift 100 pounds without grunting. Massive and manly applies. Refer to the Geezer Pics Bobdog has posted.


Manliness is a measure of brain, not of brawn.

conw
September 16, 2008, 03:26 AM
Manliness is a measure of brain, not of brawn.

Seems like men with brains want that to be so, while men with brawn prefer the other approach. Why not go for both?

wolf_from_wv
September 16, 2008, 06:35 AM
Of course, it will be more manageable once I replace the Factory forend and buttstock with an ATI forend pistol grip and pistol grip/buttstock combo.

I wouldn't count on that, unless you add some weight to the stock. I changed mine back, because it hurt to shoot.

Mossy...

Remmy (Remy?)...

Dave McCracken
September 16, 2008, 08:31 AM
Forrestd, seven semesters on the Dean's List, 3.48 cumulative. I'm the poster kid for the old GI Bill.

Brains and muscles.

Socrates was a stone mason and as needed, infantryman.

Most of the Elizabethan poets we had pounded into our skulls in English Lit classes were soldiers.

" I could not love thee so much loved I not Honor more"....

I've been blessed.....

And, manliness has more to do with attitude then grey matter or testosterone.

Men provide. That's our job description.

308win
September 16, 2008, 08:49 AM
I have called my shotguns shotties; I will atone by voting my Second Amendment rights as I agree with you - Heller was no better than a tie as a one vote flip changes the whole paradigm. The next President could very well get to appoint three Supreme Court Justices including the pivotal vote. I don't have faith in the Second Amendment positions of either candidate but I do believe that BHO would limit gun ownership/use of any type in a New York minute given the opportunity. Hope this political talk doesn't get the thread closed. Rant off.

JImbothefiveth
September 16, 2008, 08:24 PM
does this include the primary elections?
No sir, that's the time to get the best, most pro-gun candidate you can get.


If their second pic for prez is a gun grabber, by all means, let them vote third party Thanks to gun owners voting in the primaries, it hasn't happened yet.

conw
September 17, 2008, 12:46 AM
Socrates was a stone mason and as needed, infantryman.

He also, word has it, made his students exercise with the wrestling team.

Nolo
September 17, 2008, 01:25 AM
The by-product of a society where language skills, spelling, and word craftsmanship have been relegated to abbreviation's, spell check, and one-to-two syllable words. We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?
How about the fact that your last sentence is grammatically incorrect? "We can only wonder" is an action, not a question.
'Course, I dun' no' nuthin', I is jus' a teenager... :D
Seriously, though.
There are some of us who keep the English language alive. I am seventeen years of age, and I send text messages with perfect grammar and spelling.
It's a pain, but I give respect to my language.
Having said that, I also refer to shotguns as "shotties".
Why? Well, I have nicknames for my friends. I regard shotguns as my friends, at least when they act right.
We yung'uns have a word for people who start newbies out with magnum 12-gauge loads (or magnum loads of any kind):
******bags.
Oh, one last thing:
Voting.
My birthday is November 3rd, 1990.
I will be 18 the day before the election, and six states over from my state of residence.
I should also be getting my absentee ballot tomorrow.

Nolo
September 17, 2008, 01:37 AM
Oh, did I mention I am also currently involved in a campaign to unseat Steny Hoyer? (Yep, he's from my district...)

Dave McCracken
September 17, 2008, 08:39 AM
Good luck with Hoyer, he's entrenched. He also did good work for the Patuxent Refuge, getting 8K acres turned over to hunting. A mixed blessing, he believes in cop killer bullets and evil Assault Weapons.

Kudoes on text messages with correct spelling and grammar.

Should we meet, say at PGC, I'll forgive you a "Shottie" or two.

forrestd
September 17, 2008, 12:17 PM
And, manliness has more to do with attitude then grey matter or testosterone.


Certainly. When I said brain I meant being practical, rational, logical, etc. as well as having a positive attitude. I wasn't trying to imply that mo' diplomas = mo' manly.

556A2
September 17, 2008, 03:06 PM
I agree 110% with everything you said Dave!

I really hate hearing people gripe & moan because their wife/son/daughter/friend won't shoot with them because they gave them a 2oz turkey load, a Mosin-Nagant, or a .44 magnum to shoot for the very first time. I know several women who won't touch a gun again because their dumba$$ family member did something like that. It ruins a new shooter who will start fighting for our gun rights at the expense of a cheap laugh.

10 lashes in the public square would be a fitting punishment for that.

Matt-J2
September 17, 2008, 03:51 PM
I'm surprised that the term 'shottie' bothers you, and yet you don't mention the term 'gauge'. If there's anything that bothers me, it's referring to one's shotgun as a gauge.


Also, I'll vote for who I think should win the election, not for who I think is most likely to win, regardless of party affiliation. If everyone else did the same, we'd all be better off. Anything less is somewhat degrading to self and country.

Dave McCracken
September 17, 2008, 09:18 PM
Agreed, Forrest.

Thanks, SB. 10 lashes for first offense.

Matt, no one I know socially uses "Gauge"....

Matt-J2
September 17, 2008, 10:05 PM
I only know(knew, I suppose) 1 in person, but I've seen it pop up more frequently on these forums. Pretty much at least twice in any thread talking about HD weapons. I dunno if it's use is more frequent, or if I've just noticed it more.

conw
September 17, 2008, 10:39 PM
My birthday is November 3rd, 1990.
I will be 18 the day before the election, and six states over from my state of residence.
I should also be getting my absentee ballot tomorrow.

I turned 18 either the day of or the day after the 2004 election :(

Nolo
September 17, 2008, 10:55 PM
Ouch, dude.

forrestd
September 17, 2008, 11:08 PM
Matt, no one I know socially uses "Gauge"....


I may be mistaken, but I think he meant when people refer to their shotgun as their 12 gauge or 20 gauge.

Matt-J2
September 17, 2008, 11:11 PM
No, not that. If they did that, no biggie, that's what it is. I'm talking just the word 'gauge', as in: "For HD, I keep my gauge loaded with...", or something similar.

Larry Ashcraft
September 17, 2008, 11:24 PM
On number one, I dislike the reference to "shottys". I wouldn't call a classic Thunderbird a "birdie", and I refuse to call my Citori or my dad's Rem Model 10 a "shotty" on the same principal.

On the second part, guilty as charged. When my wife and I were first married, I wanted her to enjoy dove hunting with me. I saw some doves on a fence and invited her to take a shot. She didn't like it, one bit.

Thirty-some years later, thanks to sm, she finally shot a 28 ga and was immediately hooked on clay pigeons.

Last Sunday, Justin and I were shooting some clays when Sandy said "Gimme that gun for a minute" (my 12 ga Citori), and she fired 6 or 8 shots, smoking a couple clays. "OK, that's enough" and she handed it back.

She's a game girl...

Nolo
September 17, 2008, 11:25 PM
No, not that. If they did that, no biggie, that's what it is. I'm talking just the word 'gauge', as in: "For HD, I keep my gauge loaded with...", or something similar.
Now that just makes you sound dumb...

yenchisks
September 17, 2008, 11:40 PM
Dear Dave,like the name ,remineds me of gold dredging video ive seen,is that where you got the name,are you the real Dave

Thernlund
September 18, 2008, 12:44 AM
I wouldn't call a classic Thunderbird a "birdie"...

But you may refer to it as a T-Bird.

This whole debate over pet names for things is ridiculous. :rolleyes: They're just words. All words have a use in a certain context.


-T.

conw
September 18, 2008, 02:09 AM
Thernie,

Although I was arguing earlier that language drift/change is inevitable (and indeed makes language much more interesting in the long run and reflects cultural changes), it IS a democratic process...discussions like this, too, are important.

The whole debate over the debate over pet names for things is ridiculous. :neener:

Thernlund
September 18, 2008, 04:51 AM
Although I was arguing earlier that language drift/change is inevitable (and indeed makes language much more interesting in the long run and reflects cultural changes), it IS a democratic process...discussions like this, too, are important.

Cultural change is a democratic process.

Well... that's it for me kids. I'm out. (...of the thread.)


-T.

Dave McCracken
September 18, 2008, 09:02 AM
Yenchisks, I am the real Dave. Not that real Dave, though.

Nor do I play keyboards for sundry rock groups nor Irish football.

Google can mislead people....

Larry, we all make mistakes. In this case,a happy ending.

WW will not shoot shotguns much. She got hammered once not long after we met and utterly refused to shoot any until recently. She has gone out with a 20 gauge 391 at PGC a bit.

PJR
September 18, 2008, 10:10 AM
I'm talking just the word 'gauge', as in: "For HD, I keep my gauge loaded with...", or something similar.
For the etymologists among us (people who study word origins) the first published use of the term "gauge" was in the 80's movie "Colors," a movie about LA gangs. A police officer performing a search said he found a "gauge." IIRC, it was a PGO Ithaca Model 37.

"Shotty" was and is used by various rap artists. The first use of the term "shotty" might have been in the song "Big Gun" by the rap singer now actor Ice-T.

The poster that termed the phrase "shotgun eubonics" was right on the mark.

1KPerDay
September 24, 2008, 12:59 PM
Dave, just for this I'm not going to let you shoot my Tommy gun. :p :D

BruceRDucer
September 24, 2008, 04:44 PM
/

[re Socrates] "He also, word has it, made his students exercise with the wrestling team."----Conwict


Ho ho ho ho ho! (yikes! and ouch!:what:)

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