Noob question about loading my 58 Rem


Quickdraw McGraw
September 14, 2008, 08:13 AM
Shot my newly acquired 58 remington yesterday (brass frame) for the 1st time.

Started with 20gr of Goex fffg
then a wonder wad
then a .454 ball (seemed to have a good seal as it shaved off a little ring of lead)
then topped of with bore butter

My question is if I am using a wonder wad over the powder and getting a good tight fit with the ball do I still need to use the butter bore?

I've read elsewhere that if you use the wonder wad over the powder no bore butter/crisco is needed. Being new to black powder my biggest fear is a chain fire.


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Acorn Mush
September 14, 2008, 08:17 AM
When you use a wad between the powder and the ball, there is no need to put more lube on top of the ball. Be sure your wads are lubed, however.

Best of luck with your new toy. :)

Quickdraw McGraw
September 14, 2008, 08:26 AM
thanks AC! :)

September 14, 2008, 08:28 AM
I use Crisco over the balls without a wad underneath (works as well as Bore Butter at a fraction of the cost). I use Bore Butter as an internal lube on everything. Even better are lube pills (under the ball) made of paraffin, beeswax, Bore Butter and whatever else the chef tosses in that day.

Lately, I've been using the vegetable spray PAM as a lube on the cylinder pins of my guns, and down the barrel, and I have had great luck. Last week I took the barrel off my Pietta 1851 .36 after shooting for awhile, sprayed the PAM down the barrel and put it down for a few minutes. When I picked it back up there was a huge glob of PAM and Crisco and BP residue clogging the barrel. I flicked it out and the barrel was clean and shiny. The PAM acted like an oven cleaner, flowing down the barrel and taking all the crap with it.
Like I said, this worked for me, but I cannot guarantee it for anyone else. It worked really well on my Paterson's cylinder pin, a gun that is more prone to binding due to fouling than any other gun I own.

Also (dang, the coffee went right to my typing fingers) I've had two multiple chamber firings (two different guns), and both were caused by roundballs that I had cast that were not perfectly round.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 14, 2008, 08:40 AM
I just checked the packaging and they are "wonder wads 1000 plus" - center lubed with wonder lube 1000 plus so I should be OK.

I have everything to make my own wads (beeswax, parafin, bore butter, crisco, punches) except felt. My felt will be here this week.

Just thought of another question. When I seat the ball should I be sure it is seated against the wad and powder. I know when reloading with smokeless powders you don't want to compess the charge. Any concern with black powder?

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated!! :D

September 14, 2008, 08:48 AM
You do not want any air space between the black powder and the ball.

When I used to make lube pills, I'd mix up the concoction of beeswax, paraffin, Bore Butter, then pour it down the barrel of the gun (I blocked off the other end of the barrel with a ear plug). I let it harden for a minute or so, then pushed out the perfectly sized "stick." I'd just bring the lube sticks to the range and cut off pills as I needed them.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 14, 2008, 08:54 AM
Thats pretty slick idea there pohill!
:rolleyes: I like it.

Shotgun Willy
September 14, 2008, 08:55 AM
I've tried using the wads, with no great success. That's just me though. Wierd stuff tends to happen if I try to get too fancy. You might want to put lube on the first, and maybe second, chamber when you shoot, just to get some lube into the barrel. After that you ought to be fine with just the wads.

Loading black powder is different than smokeless. Never leave space between the powder and the ball, that's bad news. You want to compress the powder some. Happy shooting.

September 14, 2008, 08:57 AM
Pohill, did you really get a Paterson to fire more than 2 rounds without binding up solid? The Uberti Paterson I had would get two rounds off and it was finished. I sent it back to Uberti, they could not or would not repair it, so they replaced it with a 3rd Model Dragoon. This one works.
Uberti no longer makes the Paterson model. I believe the problem goes back to the original design as the cylinder is flush with the barrel, there is no flash diverter.

September 14, 2008, 09:32 AM
The first few times I fired the Paterson using Crisco, I could get 2, maybe 3 shots before the cylinder stopped rotating from fouling. When I switched to Lube Pills that I made, or some made by Rifle (Wayne) on this forum, it would shoot all five. With the PAM, it just keeps going and going, though I do wipe it down as I reload (seperate loading lever - gotta remove the barrel to load).
I traded a Remington for the Paterson with Smokin' Gun. He guided me on the phone through the re-assembly the first time I tried. It is one complicated gun to put back together, but it's a great shooter.

September 14, 2008, 09:37 AM
Here's an added advantage of lube pills. As you can see, the balls missed the target, but the lube pill found its mark (this was at 50 feet). It actually sat on the target burning a pretty flame for a few seconds.

September 14, 2008, 01:21 PM
I've found that with Bore Butter over the ball, over the wad, over the powder, I get less of a fouling problem. My best guess at this is that the Bore Butter 'greases' the fouling, causing it to be moved out of the way more than the caking I get with dry (no Bore Butter) shooting.

I usually get about three to four cylinders shot dry as opposed to 6 or so with Bore Butter before the cylinder turns hard and has to be cleaned. :p

Since I hardly ever shoot more than six cylinders per gun per shooting session, I don't really know how far I could go. For some reason, it seems that I shoot on hot days without much of a breeze to cool things off. Yes, I know, that makes me somewhat of an idiot, but it seems that is the way it works out for me. For instance, today, it is cloudy, and 65 degrees, so what am I doing, sitting here typing this answer! :(

Dang, I am a dunce! :banghead:

The Doc is out now. (pondering why I am sitting here) :cool:

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