[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Just something you don't do? What if you are hunting, going in on a horse, then get off to do some hunting - how can you protect your horse, and still have him where you want him when you come back?

[ArmedBear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyrenees

[koja48]

Don't know what to tell you, Preme. If there are that many wolves, maybe don't use a horse. I both picketed & hobbled a lot of horses a lot of times in Griz country without incident. Matter of fact, the only time one was hurt was when it was heeled by a hippie hiker's dog . . . had to put the horse down. 2 weeks later, I put the hippie down for not apologizing & admitting his mistake (not "down, down" . . . he slowly crawled away, leaving a good blood trail . . . ). In the wild, life can be a crap shoot. You might consider leaving something drenched in man-scent near the cayuse, since wolves generally steer clear of men/man smell. Just a thought. Good luck.

[MMCSRET]

The USFS tells us to put all our meat and supplies in a tree or cache well off the ground!!! OOOOHHHH!!!!!!

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, MMCS, I suppose you could devise a harness for the horse and a pulley/hoist system, hoist him, tie it off, and let your horse dangle about 20 feet up from a rope while you're hunting, to keep him safe. :)

But I like the idea of putting scent out. Break out a sweaty sweatshirt that you do your workouts in back home. Maybe urinate before leaving the horse, too.

What's a good kind of horse for hunting & trail? I've been reading about mules, Irish sport horses (cross between Irish Draft horse & Thoroughbred), 1/2 Clydesdale crosses - what else should I look at?

[Shawnee]

Hi Sauce...

The workout sweatshirt might be worth a try.

Many breeds can produce good mountain horses. Qhorses are fine. A Haflinger would be good too but I don't know that there are many in the West.

You need to look at the individual horse more so than the breed. Look for a horse with a goodly amount of bone in the leg and insist on healthy legs. If you do a search for "ranch horse" breeders you'll be looking at pretty good stock.

Believe it or not, some of the draft horses do pretty well in rugged country.
I used a Belgian in Wyoming working at from 6500 to 8500 feet on really steep trails and he was as sure-footed and safe as I could ask for. Only problem with draft horses is women can ride them easily but men aren't really engineered to split that wide so stay on the small side.;)

:cool:

[WNC Seabee]

I did a pack trip into NW corner of Yellowstone a few years ago. Awesome fly fishing! Anyway, about 100 yards from our camp was a nifty sign on the trail that said, "Grizzly Management Area, No Camping" :what:

Our guides tethered the horses at night. The mules had a dominate type that all the others followed. They just hobbled her and let the other mules roam free. This was for 4 or 5 nights.

[Old Grump]

Look at a good riding mule. I enjoyed trail riding in the mountains and working horses down in cow country but for serious riding in the mountains my first and second thoughts are mule and mule, horse as a last resort, more pony size than thoroughbred size for mountain riding.

[Cosmoline]

If the wolves want to take your horse or dog they will. But such incidents are very rare esp. in the lower 48.

The bear won't bother your horse unless it's dying or dead.

[ArmedBear]

If the wolves want to take your horse or dog they will. But such incidents are very rare esp. in the lower 48.

Depends on the dog. Great Pyrenees have long been used by Basque shepherds in Idaho to protect the sheep from wolves and other predators, and apparently they do the job well.

Of course, a couple of over-200 lb. dogs will eat a lot...

[Harve Curry]

http://www.yellowstonenationalpark.com/wolves.htm

here's a incident story from this link: http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/horse-nothid-wolves.htm
Incident with wolves likely cost North Idaho elk hunter three horses

Nov. 6, 2002

On November 1 the Spokesman-Review ran an article telling how a North Idaho elk hunter "lost three horses after they were attacked by wolves at a campsite along the Little North Fork of the Clearwater River."

Before doing a story, I wanted to check out the facts to see if there was collaboration of the story of the "wolf attack" on elk hunter Bror Borjesson's horses.

I talked with Ed Bangs and Curt Mack. There are no witnesses to this attack except Borjesson himself and his family. He first told the U.S. Forest Service about his loss, and eventually the story filtered to Curt Mack, who co-manages Idaho wolves along with Carter Niemeyer.

The story goes that in the middle of the night, they were awakened by a "commotion near their horse trailer" where their 3 horses were tethered and by which the results of their elk hunt were hung.

By flashlight, the elk hunter saw four wolves attacking his horses, all of which were staining to break free. Two of them did break free and were chased some of the wolves. The third horse, a mare, flipped and broke her back. Borjesson shot the mare to put her out of misery. He has not found the other two horses.

When Curt Mack learned of the incident, Wildlife Services was dispatched to the remote area to investigate, but a heavy snowstorm prevented them from reaching the site. Mack told me that in their next wolf tracking flight (a week from now) they would fly the area looking for the 2 horses.

There is no reason to suspect the story is not true. However, it is more likely the wolves were after the elk carcasses, rather than the horses. The presence of wolves right next to the horses would likely cause a panic. Once the horses ran, wolves would probably pursue them a distance.

The incident was on public land. The horses were not involved in livestock operations, so they don't meet Defender's of Wildlife's criteria for compensation, although Defenders can always compensate for anything they choose.

The lesson is a hard learned by hunters in bear and wolf country. Elk carcasses should be hung well away from camp and certainly not next to horses.

Mack said the wolves were likely from the Marble Mountain Pack. This pack has been little studied. B48M, thought to be the alpha male, was found dead last year. He had the only radio collar, but recently a new collar was placed on a member of the pack after a successful summertime trapping operation. The Marble Mountain Pack is thought to be the most northerly in Idaho replacing the Snow Peak Pack, which lost all of its collars and might have disp.............

Return To Maughan Wolf Report Page

Copyright © 2002 Ralph Maughan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We have wolves here in SW New Mexico. Wolves killed a horse in a corral right next to the barn wall a few years ago in the Gila NF area.
Tough luck, no compensation.

I picket my horses on a high line with breakaway string made from a loop of bailing string. The halter shank is tied to the loop in the string, which can be cut or break in a emergency. I deal with finding the horse later if that occurs. At least the horse will have a fighting chance, but so did the one in the corral. At night I keep a SUREFIRE flashlight next to my gun so I can see/check when the need arises.

[telkontar]

Main lesson: Do not hang raw meat next to your mounts.

[koja48]

over-200 lb. dogs

Bag the horse & ride the dog in (sorry; the devil made me say that).:evil:

[paintballdude902]

sauce ill give my brother in-law a call in the morning him and my sister have a stable

we dont have wolves but i remember he was having problems with yotes' trying to corner the horses in the pasture (they were minies) but i seam to remember the horses actually killing 2 yotes

i think that the best thing you could do is actually get a portable electric fence (if your planning on cmaping not a bad idea) the things weigh about 50lbs with the wire and charger and are solar or battery powered


a quarter horse is an ok choice but i wouldnt want one for hunting just a personal thing though , id actually want a draft horse a large one but powerfull and has endurance or a mustang if you can find one they are a small but powerfull horse with alot of stamina but any horse with good stamina and is used to being in the woods and around wildlife is a good choice id like something around 16 hands or more

if your hunting in a rocky area id like a mule they are more sure fotted than a horse

i got a few links for you that may help with selecting the horse

http://www.horseprotection.org/id51.html
http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/breed_profiles/horses/

is it your first horse?

[35 Whelen]

+1 on the mules, but they're different animals. My Dad has raised them for years and we've been using them for elk hunting for quite some time now. A horse will perform a particular task because it's "supposed to". But a mule wants to know why. That is exactly why horses hurt themselves in the same situation that a mule won't.
Don't get me wrong, I have two incredible hunting horses that I'd never part with. They will go where you point them, ride little kids safely, and pack strong smelling bull elk without batting an eye, but the mules are much tougher, are bothered less by altitude, and just generally better thinkers.
I've never hunted in wolf country, but Dads mules take great sport in trying to kill dogs...I mean they work at it! They'll ignore a dog, I mean act like he's not there until he's within striking distance, then go after it with those front hooves. A few years ago they cornered my German Shorthair Pointer in the lot, and to this day I don't know how he kept from getting killed.
Here's a shot of Sugar and Lilly:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/ElkHunt20055red.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/ElkHunt20049red.jpg

35W

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

So a mule is more sure-footed and is better at fighting off wolves, but will be stubborn as a well, you know.... :)

Great replies; thanks all. I'll be re-visiting this thread as my research goes along.

On the story, yeah, sounds like you would want to hang your game a fur piece from where the horses are - maybe 50 yards.

[Harve Curry]

As outdoorsman and hunters we are all going to have to start thinking differently about how we handle ourselves, family, children, and livestock while hunting or just enjoying the National Forests and other back country. With the USF&W and enviromentalists reintroduction of aggressive predators like wolves and later planned grizzly.
These animals were never endangered, just not here anymore. They'd been gone about 80 - 100 years through the efforts of the US goverment.
So the hunter in Idaho hanging meat to close to camp or horses, probably never entered his mind as it had'nt been a issue in his lifetime.

As to horses vs mules. It takes alot to get a good mule, time, training, the quality of the training, mules age, the list goes on. If you ain't riding the hair to a close shave off a mule from the britchin, you probably ain't riding him/her enough.
On the other hand a horse will generally mature faster, with competent training and exercise be a good predictable mount sooner then a mule. I have had a couple of BLM mustangs that behave much like mules. One I still have is 28+ years old and has packed meat from bear(which is generally very hard to do), deer, elk, dudes, roped and held calves, poles and barrel raced with the kids. I'm an outfitter and guide, my own prefrence is horses, but I enjoy riding some of my outfitter friends mules as they are used alot and have a good handle on them.
Both can be hard to catch in the open, sure footed can be had in both, so that's something to consider on a individual basis.