[doctorhumbert]

I am not big revolver fan, nor have I shot many accurate wheelguns. On the other hand, I have shot many accurate autos from HK P7M8 to Sig P210-6. These ARE very accurate autos and I can easily do sub 1.5" group at 25 yards.

Of the revolvers I've shot, S&W 686, Colt Diamondback, and pyhton; non of them come even close to the sub 1.5" accuracy of the autos I have. More of 3-4" accuracy, which can be accomplished by combat accuracy autos such as Beretta.

With a fixed barrel, I would guess that revolver would be more accurate, but I've never seen sub 1" at 25 yards accuracy revolver.

I agree that revolvers should be 'generally' more accurate, but where are the 3" group at 50 yards accuracy revolvers?

[C.R.Sam]

They are out there, but you have to search for them.

Good bottom feeder is really close to fixed barrel at time of firing, and some actually do have fixed barrels.

Nearly all revolvers have fixed barrels but they also have a multitude of laterly moving chambers.....each of which has the ability to throw accuracy out the window.

Rare but nice....A shooter I helped a bit had gotten good enough to be a Walther contract shooter, and she could do just as well with one of my target S&W revolvers.

But needle threader revolvers are scarcer than x ringing semiautos. Takes more work to build em.

Sam

[Old Fuff]

In theory, the advantage of the revolver is that the barrel is screwed into the frame, and the sights are rigid in relationship to the frame and barrel. The disadvantage is that you have 5 or more chambers in a revolving cylinder that may, or may not be locked in concentric alignment with the barrel.

In times past, target revolvers were carefully hand fitted and careful attention was paid to chamber/bore alignment. Many if not most of these guns could and did shoot groups under 3 inches at 50 yards when using 148 gr. .38 wadcutters.

Today’s revolvers may or may not be as well fitted. As an example of the best, Freedom Arms and Dan Wesson revolvers will outshoot most automatics in the accuracy department.

Colt used to send a 20-yard test target with all of their target guns, pistols and revolvers, and it was most unusual to see a group that didn’t have all the shots interlocked in a hole that could be entirely covered with a fifty-cent coin. Sometimes you could do it with a quarter. All test firing was done by hand, using a rest.

As an aside, I would note that your H&K P7M8 has a rigidly mounted barrel, which would probably enhance its accuracy.

Last but not least, they're may be something in the way you shoot that favors pistols over revolvers. This is met as an observation, not a slam.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's To All-

Hello doctorhumbert - believe me there are some
wheelgun's out there that will deliver great accuracy;
provided that the shooter does there part!

I've owned a few myself, including 6" Smith & Wesson
model's 14, 19, 27, 28, & 686; along with a 6" Colt
Python that would turn in some very impressive group's.
However, I can't say that any groups were sub 1.5
incher's?

But, I can shoot self-loader's equally as well; provided
they are of quality manufactuer. Quite naturally
your SIG P-210 and H&K are going to out shoot most
other types of firearms; including other self-loader's.
Based on the economic factor alone, I have a .45 caliber
SIG P220A that delivers very tight groups.

I have to agree with my friend Old Fuff, and say
a lot of times accuracy depends on how one shoots.
The only way to tell for sure, is to TRAIN-TRAIN-TRAIN.

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Berg01]

A lot of us were originally introduced to shooting with wheelguns, so we have sort of a sentimental attachment to the ones we either own, or have owned.

Back when my 1978-vintage Smith & Wesson Model #27-2, 6" bbl. was new, revolvers were the thing to have! I don't get the chance to shoot it as much as I'd like, but then again, you don't need much practice to shoot dead-nuts on with them old N-Frames!

[10-Ring]

In theory, the revo should be more accurate. In reality, I'll never be able to experience the difference :rolleyes:
Like semi auto's, the extremely accurate revo's prolly come at a steep price!

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

You'll note that none of the various, whacky Olympic rapid fire pistols have cylinders. For ultimate accuracy, you want your chamber, barrel and sights all attached to each other.

When the most common centerfire pistols are compared, the looser clearances of the typical auto between the frame, slide and barrel create more shot to shot variables than the six holes in a cylinder, giving rise to this popular misconception.

However, those who have much experience with production guns like the Mauser 96, Luger, Heckler and Koch P9S and Sig 210 know better. Those are all military issued arms with reliability on par with most revolvers. They also shoot on par or better than most revolvers.

A careful designer or gunsmith can make any design accurate - the match 1911 is testament to that. For most of the last century the CHEAPEST accurate gun was the revolver. From what I've seen of current production revolvers, I don't know if that is really so true any more. But I have more auto experience.

With $1000 to spend on a used handgun, you can get either type of gun and have terrific accuracy. Don't let anyone tell you different.

[Standing Wolf]

With $1000 to spend on a used handgun, you can get either type of gun and have terrific accuracy. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Amen!

My personal center fire preference is for revolvers; my personal rim fire preference is for semi-automatic pistols. Whatever I'm shooting is bound to be more accurate than I'll ever be again.

[Shane]

Of the revolvers I've shot, S&W 686, Colt Diamondback, and pyhton; non of them come even close to the sub 1.5" accuracy of the autos I have. More of 3-4" accuracy, which can be accomplished by combat accuracy autos such as Beretta.

Just a wild guess here, but this might have to do with trigger control. With a DA revolver, mastering the long double action stroke is difficult. With most semi-autos, all the shots are single-action but the first (on DA/SA semi-autos) or all the shots are single action only on 1911 and CZ/BHP style pistols.

There are some DAO semi-autos, but they seem to be the least popular type.


I know in my case, if I fire a typical revolver and typical semi-auto from single action mode (pulling the hammer back EVERY shot on a DA revolver) and compare, the vast majority of the time I get better groups with the revolver. Possibly due to the ergonomics and me being more use to revolvers. OTOH, if I fire the revolver in DA mode every shot and the semi-auto in single action mode every shot, the semi-auto is easier for me to hit with. While I can get decent combat groups in DA with a revolver, I can NOT get pinpoint accuracy with the DA trigger--which implies I need more DA practice.

[bountyhunter]

Of the revolvers I've shot, S&W 686, Colt Diamondback, and pyhton; non of them come even close to the sub 1.5" accuracy of the autos I have. More of 3-4" accuracy, which can be accomplished by combat accuracy autos such as Beretta.

The python was designed specifically for target shooting, it's one of the best guns ever made for it. It could easily shoot a sub 1.5" group at 25 yards with decent ammo in working order. I have two 686's and two 66's, they can do the same.

Bottom line, revolvers are inherently more accurate than autos because the barrel is fixed on a wheelgun, and it moves on an auto. Autos can be made to shoot 1" groups (a premium 1911 can, or my Ruger .22 Mk II can), but out of the box for a given dollar cost, revolvers beat autos generally speaking for target accuracy.

[355sigfan]

In rimfires the autos are more accurate. In centerfire guns revolvers tend to be more accurate. But the differeance is not as great as it once was. Depends on what you want.
Pat

[firestar]

Of the revolvers I've shot, S&W 686, Colt Diamondback, and pyhton; non of them come even close to the sub 1.5" accuracy of the autos I have. More of 3-4" accuracy, which can be accomplished by combat accuracy autos such as Beretta.

3-4" out of a S&W 686 doesn't sound right to me.:confused: I have a S&W 19 with a 6" bbl that I have got 1 1/5 groups with at 25 yards many times. The 4" 586 I had would do the same. I have only had one auto that would shoot as well as either of my sub $300 S&W revolvers and that was a $$$$$ Custom Colt .45acp.

For about $300 you can buy more accuracy in a good used revolver than you can buy in an auto. What $300 centerfire auto will give 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards? If you know of one, let me know.

[John Ross]

"I agree that revolvers should be 'generally' more accurate, but where are the 3" group at 50 yards accuracy revolvers?"

(Virtually) all Dan Wessons, Freedom Arms guns, new manufacture Smith .44s and .500s, a lot of Taurus revos, esp. the .17 and the .454s and other Smiths, esp. the M29.

My 647 .17 HMR Smith just put 12 shots in .660" @ 25 yds.

This assumes proper bullets (sized to the chamber throat, and of the right alloy and lube, or jacketed.)

JR, the .500 Specialist

[355sigfan]

Virtually) all Dan Wessons, Freedom Arms guns, new manufacture Smith .44s and .500s, a lot of Taurus revos, esp. the .17 and the .454s and other Smiths, esp. the M29.
END

Cough Cough Bullcrap. I would like to see a Taurus revolver do better than 2 inches at 25 yards much less 3 at 50. The Smith revolvers are more able but their are more that can't do 3 inches at 50 yards than can. The new 500 is no accuracy queen from what I have seen.
Pat

[John Ross]

"I would like to see a Taurus revolver do better than 2 inches at 25 yards much less 3 at 50."

I have two .454s (my only Taurus guns) that better this with good ammo. A friend has a scoped .17 Taurus from which I put two cylinders in an inch and a quarter off sandbags at 50 yards.

"The Smith revolvers are more able but their are more that can't do 3 inches at 50 yards than can. The new 500 is no accuracy queen from what I have seen. "

Most of my experience is with 29s, a few new 629s, and two .500s. All shoot well with the right ammo. I am still in the fairly early stages of experimenting with the .500, but I do have seven different mold designs from 400 to 725 grains, and some are VERY accurate. (Some are mediocre at best, at least so far.) I have a 650 grain design with a bore-riding nose section that may become the best long range wheelgun load I've ever fired.

YMMV

JR, the .500 Specialist

[bountyhunter]

The Smith revolvers are more able but their are more that can't do 3 inches at 50 yards than can.

I must be the luckiest SOB on earth then. I've got a 686-3 (6") with a red dot that would on occasion do 1" five shot groups (two hand hold, free standing) at 25 yards. The new model 66 I relaced the aging 686 with will do the same when my hands are steady and lady luck is generous.

[YodaVader]

In the 16 years or so that I have been shooting handguns I have never seen a stock SERVICE semi-auto pistol ever do 1.5" at 25 yards ever - by anyone. The most accurate semi-auto centerfire pistols that I have ever fired or owned were customized 1911s that were tuned for bullseye competition - capable of 10 ring accuracy on the 50 yard bullseye target.

When firing the revolver in single action mode I have always been able to achieve better accuracy using the wheel gun over any STOCK semi auto centerfire. As a test to see how accurate my revolvers are I mounted scopes and fired off bags on a solid bench. MY 686 and 629 both are capable of placing the entire cylinder under an inch at 25 yards.

[Peter M. Eick]

I have been monitoring this thread and would add the following:

I think it has a lot to do with what you learned on!

I started out on a diamondback and learned to shoot revolvers in DA mode. I definately shoot a revolver better in DA then an auto in DA. In SA I still shoot a revovler better then my auto's but it is a lot closer. My new (to me) 38/44 outdoorsman can be shot better then my 210-5. I am going through a revolver resurgence because of this....

[doctorhumbert]

In the 16 years or so that I have been shooting handguns I have never seen a stock SERVICE semi-auto pistol ever do 1.5" at 25 yards ever - by anyone.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/p162f3a09d6acede8a0f5b4a3fb91f875/fb240213.jpg

There are many service autos out there that can, especially. My P210-6 can. Those groups are shot with Wal-Mart Winchester 115gr 9mm FMJ.
My HK P7M8 also comes close.

[355sigfan]

I have never seen a stock SERVICE semi-auto pistol ever do 1.5" at 25 yards ever - by anyone.

END

Well I could do it from a bench with my sig 239 in 357 sig, my previous sig 226 in 9mm, my previous sig 220 in 45 acp. My kimber classic is close being right at 2 inches at 25 yards. My glocks are not as good by not bad. My 21 will do 2.5 inches at 25 yards and my 31 will do about the same. I should have qualified the smith statement. Long barreled Smith revolvers 6 and over can usually do 3 inches or less at 50 yards. Service revolvers 4 inches or less its usually can't quite do it.
Pat

[BigG]

I guess we really should compare apples to apples. from some of the statements on this thread it would appear that some posters could blow the doors off of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. in his heyday.

Wearing my short pants. :o

[YodaVader]

Did not say it could not be done! I just have never seen it! By the way impressive groups! By service auto I meant that one that would actually be used for police work - the P210 is a fine piece , but I doubt that many depts are using them. It is definitely a shooter though.

As far as a 4" revolver not being able to shoot as good as a 6" - that is a crock. In a an older reloading book where various handguns were tested the most accurate gun tested - or most accurate group fired was by a 4" Ruger GP100 - .4" at 25 yards.

[doctorhumbert]

I came to conclusion that it all depends on the gun. Since I am not a big fan of revolvers, I guess I just haven't seen super accurate wheelguns.

By service auto I meant that one that would actually be used for police work

P210/M49 was an official military/police sidearm of Danish for many years. It was built as a combat handgun. Its match accuracy doesn't hurt though.

[caz223]

I used to think that revolvers were inherantly more accurate than autos.
My first auto was a H&K usp compact in .45 acp.
That laid that concern to rest immediately.
As far as 25 yard groups, and accuracy, why are you standing so close to the target?
My S&W and ruger .41 mag revolvers equipped with red dots can do 6" at 70 yards.
Offhand.
If you got an accurate gun, and can shoot it, step back from the target a ways and challenge yourself.
(Assumng you have access to wide open spaces and a good backstop.) Try this.
Get a 6" metal swinger target, and shoot at it.
If you hit it, back up a few feet.
If you miss, shoot again.
Start at 25 yards, and see how far you end up from the target when you run out of ammo. Bring a box or two of ammo with you.
Once you miss about 50% of the time, step forward 3 paces, this is the distance you should practice at for accuracy.
This is where accuracy is determined.
(I hope you're not standing closer than 25 yards. :p )
I'll bet you start missing at the same distance with a good revolver or a good auto. (Provided you have equal practice with both.) No offense, but I suspect that if you had equal practice with both, we wouldn't be discussing it. ;)
Silhouette shooters amaze me, 200+ meters and farther, iron sights, magnum revolvers.
Quality revolvers are every bit as accurate as quality autos.
The quality part is more important. :p

[bountyhunter]

Published data clearly shows some stock autos shoot under 2" with their best ammo. Sigs are notorious for accuracy, kind of strange because they routinely beat autos with 5" barrels when theirs is a shade over 4". Good 1911's usually can do a 2" group with one brand of ammo, but average group size for all is larger. Premium 1911's like Wilson are sometimes sold with a 1" group guarantee (and a target to prove it) assuming the specified ammo is used.

[bountyhunter]

If you hit it, back up a few feet.

If you hit it, back up a few feet.
If you miss, shoot again.
Start at 25 yards, and see how far you end up from the target when you run out of ammo. Bring a box or two of ammo with you.



I'm not sure the owner of the range would let me shoot across the lobby out into the range... and I have no idea who I could get to hold the door open while I shoot through it.

[YodaVader]

As far as 25 yard groups, and accuracy, why are you standing so close to the target?


Well caz if you can shoot one hole groups at 25 yards off hand with an entire cylinder - then you are the MAN! :) I have shot NRA silhouette where we shot up to 100 meters and with open sights. Never seen anyone use any type of centerfire semi-auto in any of the matches I participated in.

I have shot bullseye where off hand shooting was required as well as one handed and , yes, used a semi auto centerfire. A good custom 1911 is a shooter - and in timed and rapid a revolver just does not cut it these days.

My own swinging metal plate is about 9" and I seldom use it these days but when I did I usually set it up at 100 yards and I found I could hit it far more often with my centerfire revolvers than with my centerfire autos - although I have hit more than a few times with a Sig P220 in 45ACP! Now when we talk rimfire pistol that is another story - with the MKII and open sights it was a rather easy target. Have fired the 45 USP and was impressed with the accuracy. Apparently some of the higher end autos can be suprisingly accurate.

[PaladinX13]

Old thread, but any new thoughts, posters, or expriences?

[Double Maduro]

I shoot both equally well. Better than some, not as good as others. I carry a semi auto, Ruger P90 and have no trouble keeping everything in the black at 25 yards offhand, most in the 9 and 10 ring, not many outside that.

However, the single most accurate handgun I have ever fired was a .41 mag Ruger that belongs to a friend of mine. At 1oo yards, from a rest, we were shooting tighter groups than most of the guys sighting in their deer rifles. Most groups were in the 3 inch range. I'm sorry, I don't remember the ammunition we were using, may have been factory or handloads.

One thing I learned that day. Even though the Ruger has small grips and I have big hands, it is not a good idea to put your little finger under the grip when firing from a bench, lol.

I think that the only way to get an accurate hand gun is to try several and buy the one you shoot the best. Then practice, practice, practice. That reminds me, I think I'll go shooting tomorow.

DM

[pauli]

all i can say is, there's a different between shooting an accurate gun and shooting a gun accurately.

and then there's saying the heck with it, realizing that you're using a handgun to do a rifle's job, and just picking up a darn rifle ;)

[TwoGun]

I once read an article in some gun magazine that described everything a revolver had to overcome in order to be accurate. Its a tribute to engineering that any of them shoot worth a darn at all! That being said, my 629 Classic Hunter, (the only revolver I own) will generally hold groups about two and a half inches with my pet handloads if I manage to do my part right. So with an iron sighted pistol, I anticipat groups of about five inches at 50 yards. That's my personal limit for the rig when deer hunting.

I've got an out of the box Para P-16 Limited that's a tad ammo picky but will give me better groups if I've got the patience to get it.

Personal preference rules here as much as mechanical accuracy. A person's build, shape and size of hands, mindset, and training and historical experince tends to give us a preference one way or another. I know that revolvers can be pretty accurate, but I shoot auto's better. But then I shoot several thousand rounds a year through my auto's and only a hundred or so through my single revolver. I'm sure others have similar experince with thier perfered platform. So go with what you know.

[grendelbane]

Physical condition of the shooter has a great deal to do with handgun accuracy, especially the eyes.

A quarter of a century ago I would have chosen my 6" .41 magnum if I had to make a tight group at a long range. Now, with eyes nearly a half century old I would grab for my 4" model 58. Same basic gun, but with less flexible eyes it is easier to shoot the short barrel at long range.

I do better with wheelguns at long range, if I can fire SA. The primary purpose of a handgun is close quarters security. All of mine, of whatever persuasion, are more than accurate at close range.

I have had a few autos over the years that would shoot with my wheelguns, but if accuracy is your main concern, it is usually cheaper to buy a wheelgun.

[albanian]

One of the biggest advantages of revovlers is the amount of accuracy you get for the money. Go buy a $300 S&W 586 or 19 and compare that to ANY $300 semi-auto. I have owned many handguns over the years and it is very rare semi-auto that can outshoot a decent revolver like a S&W.

I have never seen a stock semi-auto that could hang with a used S&W .357 at even twice the price. I had a couple that were three or more times the price that could shoot as well.

The point is, you can get a 30 year old $300 S&W 19 and it will shoot rings around a $600-700 auto. That is just the way it.

It sounds like you don't shoot revolvers as well as autos, that is fine but there is more accuracy in a revolver than most people can ever get to.

[unspellable]

If you want to spend the money you can get a revolver that will shoot minute of angle. That's about an inch at 100 yards. If you are serious about silhouette shooting, you have to have a revolver that can reliably hit a pigeon at 200 meters. Figure out what that group size would be at 25 yards. Less than an inch.

As for pistols, the old C96 Broomhandle and the C98 Parabellum (Luger) service pistols without any accuracy work done on them at all will generally match a fully accurized 1911 type pistol. One wonders what would have developed if the millions spent the cottage industry that developed the 1911 to its full potential had been spent on the Parabellum instead. Most people never realize the Luger's accuracy because if stock, it has poor sights and an indifferent trigger. They never bother to find out what it likes for ammo.

None of this does me any good because I can't shoot that accurately with anything.

[jc2]

While there is a lot variation from individual weapon to individual weapon (e.g., exceptionally accurate autoloaders and inaccurate revolvers), the revolver, as a whole, is more accurate than the autoloader (particularly when talking about service grade weapons). The rub is people can generally shoot autoloaders more accurately with less practice--it just plain takes more practice to master the revolver.

[unspellable]

I can get a smaller group with a double action revolver in single action mode than I can with a single action revolver or most self loaders. In the case of DA revolver vs SA revolver, I'm inclined to think it's mostly which grip shape works better for me. I have no explaination for the self loader as some of them have pretty decent grips.