pistol grip or not for home defense??


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glock_17_4U
September 14, 2008, 11:47 PM
i am thinking o getting a remington 860 with a foregrip and pistol grip to defend the ole homestead. what are your opinions? the model i am thinking of getting is remington 870 express model#24823.it has pistol grip stock and foree. please give me your thoughts on this shotgun.

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Okiecruffler
September 15, 2008, 12:09 AM
Are you talking a pistol grip only, or a shoulder stock with a pistol grip?

Here we go again.

takhtakaal
September 15, 2008, 12:11 AM
Get an 18 to 20" smoothbore with a normal stock. Most people forget and don't shoot from the hip in an emergency as you MUST with pistol grip shotguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAjVvd4SjM

Youngster
September 15, 2008, 12:46 AM
PGO's have a lot more negatives than positives and forend pistol grips are lunky and unnecessary.

kcshooter
September 15, 2008, 01:09 AM
For PGO:
Useless on the front, even more than useless on the rear.

Stock with a pistol grip also isn't as bad, but you can't get a proper cheekweld on the ones I've tried. I have a AR stock on one, it's more of a novelty than anything, it's shootable but it points funny, and if it went back into use as one of my HD shotguns, I'd go back to the factory stock.

plexreticle
September 15, 2008, 01:21 AM
If you're looking for tacticool may I suggest a 870 express, extra barrel and a SPEEDFEEDŽ IV-s Shortened Stock Set (http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=SPEEDFEED%C2%AE+IV-s+Shortened+Stock+Set&btnG=Search)

It's short, it's controllable and you can switch it back if you want for hunting or whatever.

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 01:22 AM
Here we go again.

What Okiecruffler means is...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=391278

Welcome to THR. Search is your friend. Enjoy! :)


-T.

evan price
September 15, 2008, 01:43 AM
IMHO a proper buttstock is necessary in a HD shotgun. Sure you can say you intend it for room sweeping in tight quarters, but I find a proper buttstock doesn't interfere with this, and how do you butt-stroke an intruder with a pitol grip? Plus you might need to snatch it up to your shoulder and take a shot at longer than arm's length. Then, a buttstock is necessary.

Jeff F
September 15, 2008, 09:42 AM
PGO is a bad idea.
Check this knot head out.
And he gets a real knot on his head!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFSbWUzwFIE

md7
September 15, 2008, 10:01 AM
don't care for pistol grip only shotguns. get the full stock.

harmonic
September 15, 2008, 11:38 AM
Here we go again.


Welcome to THR. Search is your friend.

Unless you're the ones paying for the band width, leave the kid alone. It's an honest question.

To the thread starter. Here's mine:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/pinnedandrecessed/Right.jpg

It's a Remington 870 "tactical" with a Knoxx recoil reducing telescoping stock. I can adjust total length yet still have a shoulder mounted weapon. I don't like shotguns that only have a pistol grip: too hard to control during recoil and impossible to aim except at extremely close distances. Any distance that close and I'm better off with a handgun.

These guys seem to have some of the best prices for new:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/37

Best of luck. PM me if you want any other advice.

Old Grump
September 15, 2008, 12:22 PM
Have to go with the shoulder stock vote. Self Defense is self defense and you want to be able to get a decent mount and sight picture if you have to shoot. The 870 is a tactical shotgun used for room clearing by men on the offensive. Unless you are a policeman or fresh back from Iraq chances are you haven't been trained to search and clear. Just personal opinion but I want a gun that I can shoot for fun because then its more likely to be used for regular practice. With that gun you will be comfortable and with that gun you will be better able to do what needs to be done if God forbid you ever have to. A gun looking mean and cool doesn't make it a good choice. Not denigrating the 870, it has a good reputation as a tactical weapon but do you really need one or do you just want it for the cool factor.

foghornl
September 15, 2008, 01:20 PM
My HomeLand Security*** Shotgun is a Maverick 88, with the 18-1/2" cylinder bored barrel, #4 Buckshot in the tube and a butt cuff with 5 slugs in it. I tried the PGO on my Maverick....ONCE. Forgot it was equipeed that way, and swung it up as a standard-stocked Woods-N-Water gun. Results...Badly mooshed but not broken nose, fat lips, and a matched pair of "Shiners"..also known as 'dotting your eyes'.



***My shotgun Secures my Home and Land from those miscreants of felonious intent.

harmonic
September 15, 2008, 01:23 PM
Not denigrating the 870, it has a good reputation as a tactical weapon but do you really need one or do you just want it for the cool factor.


What are you talking about? You can buy the 870 in every conceivable configuration from wing shooting to trench warfare.

Set it up for the field with 28 inch barrel and interchangeable chokes on Sunday.

On Monday stick the 18 inch barrel with rifle sights back on, for HD.

You can't find a more versatile shotgun.

I personally have two. The HD one in the above picture, and a left-handed Wingmaster (one of the last to leave the factory with high polish blue and figured wood).

Rshooter
September 16, 2008, 03:25 PM
I personally find pistol grips unnecessary and painful to shoot. People will come out of the wood work to tell you differently, my favorite gun is a pistol grip gun. :confused:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/ssgtward/870policefs2.jpg

If this is your first shotgun stick with the normal stock and learn how to hold and shoot it properly with range time. Learn to shoot your gun and handle it under pressure. Then you may decide you want to start playing with all of the extra have to have stuff like lights, grips, lasers, and heads up helmet displays.

1960 stock Remington Police gun.

357wheelgunner
September 16, 2008, 06:44 PM
Pistol grip only is for looking cool and shooting poorly. Get a shotgun with a full stock and learn to shoot well, then mess with it if you want.

My 870 Police was left stock for the last 3 years. Last week I added a Surefire weaponlight and a Speedfeed I magazine stock. In a month or two I will be getting some tritium express style sights, and it will be done.

Don't buy a bunch of addon crap until you've shot the snot out of the gun and know what you need to change.

M2 Carbine
September 16, 2008, 07:15 PM
I'm a fan of PGO shotguns in some roles.
I have a loaded PGO Ithaca and full stock Remington 870 by the house doors at all times.
I usually don't recommend the PGO shotgun because most people won't take the time to learn their proper use and practice with them.

Chuck Spears
September 16, 2008, 07:45 PM
Fun for the range. Not so great for self defense. It can still get the job done if you practice enough with it but not really worth the effort. Requires more training to be somewhat effective when you could have trained less and be more effective with a proper butt stock. Not advocating "training less," just making an example. Some people feel more comfortable with them and that's fine. But the vast majority of people shoot better with butt stocks.

wnycollector
September 16, 2008, 08:01 PM
I will agree, PGO is fun at the range, but when SHTF I prefer a stock on my 12ga:)

Bababooey
September 16, 2008, 09:15 PM
<----------Hug's his KNOXX SPEC OPS 870 Stock




;)

RockyMtnTactical
September 16, 2008, 09:59 PM
I am not big on PG's for shotguns, but as long as they have a stock...

Mike U.
September 17, 2008, 05:49 AM
If you have and shoot an AK or an AR or any other rifle with a pistol grip, then getting a stock like the Knoxx Industries Spec Ops may well work for you. The rifles I shoot the most have pistol grips on stocks so giving the same treatment to my 870 was a move that really works for me.
The fact that the Spec Ops stock seriously tames the recoil on those 3" magnum shells is a real plus too. Firing "Reduced Recoil" 2 3/4" slugs and buckshot is so easy it's sick. I believe my 73 year old mother could use my 12 gauge 870 with those loads. That is, if she could lift the gun. :neener:

BTW, forget about the PGO concept. Been there, done that, doesn't work very well. There is that little problem of aiming and the inability to do so with a PGO shotgun. Unless, of course, your an action hero in the movies that can shave the beard off the bad guys with your shotgun shooting from the hip. :scrutiny:

tube_ee
September 17, 2008, 02:58 PM
stick with a normal shotgun. You've got ingrained muscle memory that will be your saving grace when you've got fractions of a second to do what must be done. Your hands will know what to do when your brain is in reset.

Since "shooting flying" is an "instinctive" process, more akin to traditional archery than to any other shooting sport, shotguns are made differently than other firearms. A well stocked and properly-fitting shotgun will come up to the shoulder naturally, and should be pointed pretty much where you're looking without you having to do much of anything.

It's almost axiomatic that what is correct for any other firearm will be wrong for a shotgun. I find that even the skills don't carry over much. If I shoot my shotguns like my rifles, I miss. If I shoot my rifles like my shotguns, I also miss. There are some intermediate cases, like big-bore double rifles, but I'll never be able to afford one, so I've no idea how to shoot them well.

I don't even care for pistol-gripped stocks on shotguns. They point weird, and I can't shoot them worth a darn. My hands are telling me "rifle", the sight picture is telling me "shotgun", and the target tells me "you missed".

Shotguns are made like they are because, after 200 years of evolution, that's what works.

--Shannon

M2 Carbine
September 17, 2008, 03:40 PM
Unless, of course, your an action hero in the movies that can shave the beard off the bad guys with your shotgun shooting from the hip.


Oh, you mean like this?
#4 Buckshot and 00 Buck shot from 17 yards.
Slugs shot from 26 yards.
All shot from the hip.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/IthacaTLR2BGtarget.jpg

7 yards shot from the hip.
Slug and #4 Buckshot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/laserslughostage.jpg


OK, I admit it, my shotguns are equipped with Streamlight TLR-2 laser/lights.:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/IthacawithTLR2andBSA.jpg

Thernlund
September 17, 2008, 04:59 PM
I wonder where they find those guys to put in those "perp" targets. They look straight out of an episode or "Starsky and Hutch" or "Beretta".

Thinking about it, those pics were probably taken in the 70's anyway, but still....


-T.

Guns and more
September 17, 2008, 06:19 PM
I can see it now.
"I'm a model, no really, you may have seen my stuff. I'm the guy holding the chick by the neck in the targets." "No, not the store Target, gun targets."

M2 Carbine
September 17, 2008, 09:11 PM
I wonder where they find those guys to put in those "perp" targets. They look straight out of an episode or "Starsky and Hutch" or "Beretta".


The top one looks like the guy I grew up with, right down to the T shirt.:D

Mike U.
September 17, 2008, 09:19 PM
M2 Carbine,

Excellent and viable solution to the PGO aiming problem. Now I'll have to look into that because your targets are impressive for from-the-hip shooting.
Great job! Thanks!

possum
September 17, 2008, 11:07 PM
i am thinking o getting a remington 860 with a foregrip and pistol grip to defend the ole homestead. what are your opinions? the model i am thinking of getting is remington 870 express model#24823.it has pistol grip stock and foree. please give me your thoughts on this shotgun.
welcome to thr, i have had all that crap on my shotgun and more at one time or another and it has all came off. all i use in addition to the stock 870 is a mag extenstion. the +2. go by the kiss principle and you will be fine. you need to have a regular butstock, and there is no need for a vfg. look down the sight snone of that point and shoot crap that people like to say. use your sighhts when you can. with a pistol grip it is alot harder for you to aim the gun like you need to to achieve the hits that you need.

M2 Carbine
September 18, 2008, 02:24 AM
Mike U.
M2 Carbine,

Excellent and viable solution to the PGO aiming problem. Now I'll have to look into that because your targets are impressive for from-the-hip shooting.
Great job! Thanks!
The accuracy of the slugs surprised me because I was firing right fast and both groups, in the small target and in the BG's butt, are small.

I'm a big fan of (good) lasers. Any gun I consider a defense gun is equipped with a laser or laser/light, if available.

A couple months ago I was just blasting and checking the zero of the Ithaca's laser. What came to mind is quick accurate hits with this gun/laser were so easy it's almost cheating.:)

I'm not married to the PGO Ithaca. The 870 is a keeper to.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/870stockTLR2.jpg

ElToro
September 20, 2008, 04:35 PM
ive shot 23 and 24 out of 25 on a skeet field with my 18 inch 870 with speedfeed IV (pistol grip w/rifle stock, shortened) and front bead site only

i would avoid PGO.

Mike U.
September 20, 2008, 08:24 PM
M2 Carbine,
How does that laser/light combo work for you? Do you get enough light out of the flashlight?
I have a budget light/laser combo from NC Star I got for the .45 about 2 1/2 years ago . I bought it on a fluke till something better showed up, but, it turned out okay. I believe the Xenon bulb could be brighter, but the laser is abosolutely great. It holds it's zero even with the 230 Gr. +P rounds I run thru my .45.
I started seeing the combo your running about a year ago and was wondering about it.

arjppj
September 20, 2008, 08:28 PM
I shot my mossberg 500 with 2 3/4 bird shot, not bad. Then i put in 3" 000. That mutha hurt. Took that sh#t off and put and put the regular stock back on.

the foot
September 20, 2008, 09:17 PM
I am an experienced shotgunner, so I decided to go Without the pistol grip when I purchased my home defense shotgun. I am comfortable with the setup, and I know I will be effective with the weapon when the need arises.

M2 Carbine
September 21, 2008, 12:30 AM
Mike U.
M2 Carbine,
How does that laser/light combo work for you? Do you get enough light out of the flashlight?
I have a budget light/laser combo from NC Star I got for the .45 about 2 1/2 years ago . I bought it on a fluke till something better showed up, but, it turned out okay. I believe the Xenon bulb could be brighter, but the laser is abosolutely great. It holds it's zero even with the 230 Gr. +P rounds I run thru my .45.
I started seeing the combo your running about a year ago and was wondering about it.

Mike I like the Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light so well that to date I've bought six of then. I've got them on the two shotguns, a Kel Tec PLR, a Ruger Mark II, a FN 5.7 and a Bushmaster M4. I could use one more.:)

The Ruger is my walking around the place at night gun and for inexpensive laser/light practice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/TLR2andironsights-1.jpg

To give you an idea of the light's brightness, in total darkness I can shine it across the room to the far corner and I can read a newspaper in my hands. Everything in the room can be seen just from the reflected light.

When I first heard of a laser being used with a light I thought that sounded strange but it's not strange at all. When the target is lit up with the light you also know exactly where the bullet will hit if you decide to shoot.
There's a switch so the laser, light or both will turn on. On the HD guns I leave the switch on both.

geologist
September 21, 2008, 12:43 AM
I have a Choate top folder on my Mossberg 500. It makes the 500 very compact in length. I find I shoot high from the waist with the stock folded. I generally shoot it with the stock extended.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000002-1.jpg

But this is what I keep in my bedroom closet.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000001e.jpg

Mike U.
September 21, 2008, 01:01 AM
Thanks M2 Carbine!
It's time to start saving for a Streamlight TLR-2. :D

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