Why not flick cylinder closed?


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retgarr
September 15, 2008, 02:01 AM
I am inexperienced with revolvers so maybe you can forgive my ignorance. I would like to know why it is bad to flick a revolver cylinder closed. I must admit I am guilty of doing this to the SW 617 before I'd heard it was ad for the revolver. SO I certainly hope someone can satisfy curiosity as to why it's bad. Please use terminology I can understand, I may not be up to speed on all revolver parts.

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sm
September 15, 2008, 02:07 AM
This causes stresses on yoke and crane which will cause the cylinder to not lock up, (amongst other things).

A revolver will show a very slight "line" where yoke/crane fits onto frame if closed and used as designed.

Abused revolvers such as those flicked like hollywood movies portray, will show a very definite 'gap' and some are so bad, the cylinder will not close.

Close revolvers, "zip" Zippos, and flicking is for Bics.

retgarr
September 15, 2008, 02:16 AM
Thank you for that info. Before I can teach this to others though I hope you can tell me what the yoke and the crane are.

earplug
September 15, 2008, 02:18 AM
The weight of the cylinder will bend the yoke and put strain on the locking rod (the rod that is inserted in the recoil shield)
The yoke and rod are very strong for the normal firing situation of rotating the cylinder by the action of the hand.
The snap of a wrist on the heavy cylinder will knock the revolver out of time if your unlucky.
Kind of like letting a unloaded match pistol slam a slide shut on a empty chamber.

Sylvan-Forge
September 15, 2008, 07:09 AM
'Yoke' also known as 'Crane'.:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=84747&d=1221484654

.

Catherine
September 15, 2008, 08:08 AM
What sm said.

That is what I was told and taught.

Thanks sm.

Catherine

Catherine
September 15, 2008, 08:10 AM
Sylvan,

Good picture that you posted on here. Thanks.

Catherine

Iggy
September 15, 2008, 08:49 AM
Take a look at your car's driver's side door. Imagine that it only had one hinge at the bottom.

Imagine the wear and tear on that hinge and mounting bracket if you continually flung it open and slammed it shut by driving your car around a parking lot, braking rapidly to open it, and accelerating to close it.

It wouldn't be long before it would be hanging out of kilter and no longer shut properly.

The yoke, crane, and cylinder could be loosely compared to your car door.

jjohnson
September 15, 2008, 09:01 AM
Car door was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the opening of the thread..... augh.... just 'cause you've seen cop shows where they do that doesn't mean you should do it, any more than shooting "gangsta style" with an auto canted off 90 degrees to the left so it dumps brass on your head....:banghead:

TOGGLELOCK
September 15, 2008, 09:45 AM
That ruines your centerline alignment of your Yoke. We had been warned in Armorers school in Springfield, Mass that that had been bad for the gun. TOGGLELOCK

Sylvan-Forge
September 15, 2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks, Catherine.

.

I've edited the pic to show the cylinder stop and cylinder center pin.

.

kcshooter
September 15, 2008, 02:21 PM
It also pegs you as a numbskull at the range.

batmann
September 15, 2008, 05:14 PM
NO knowledgeable revolver guy would be caught dead doing that, strickly movie fiction.

Phydeaux642
September 15, 2008, 06:08 PM
I watched a young Mall Ninja do this at a store the other day. Surprisingly, nobody said anything to him.

steak-knife
September 15, 2008, 06:33 PM
^^beat me to the punch, but if you did that in public at the range, you would automatically get labeled a Mallninja or worse.

Also, like everbody else mentioned, it's bad for the gun.

theNoid
September 15, 2008, 06:38 PM
:cuss: Well crap, just color me a mallninja then...lol, sorry haven't done it much and really had no idea it wasn't a smart thing to do...DOH!!! :banghead:

Noidster

Zeede
September 15, 2008, 06:41 PM
Forgive my ignorance, I am new to revolvers, but I have just pushed them closed with my thumb. Are you supposed to hold the cylinder release button as you close it, then release the button? Or is just pushing it home okay?

Cameron

Sam1911
September 15, 2008, 07:40 PM
Pushing them closed is fine. No need to hold the cyl. release.

foghornl
September 16, 2008, 10:12 AM
I have also seen the Single-Action Revolver equivalent of the "Bic Flic"...

Idjit with a brand new .44Mag Super Blackhawk (box, docs, and receipt are on the bench next to a box of ammo....loads the cylinder full, spins cylinder as fast as possible, then slams loading gate closed while the cylinder is still spinning...You can see the revolver 'torque' in his hand when the cylinder stop latches in.

Made me want to remove the gun from his hand, and then demonstrate {on his forehead} how the "Old West" town sheriff drove in tacks while hangin up the new wanted posters.....

Ala Dan
September 16, 2008, 04:06 PM
Cuz its something that "gun idiots" do~! :rolleyes: :eek:

Tom Servo
September 16, 2008, 11:01 PM
Because the ghosts of Samuel Colt, Dean Wesson and Horace Smith kill a kitten every time you do it.

Also, bad for the yoke. I've several times turned away used revolvers because I saw the previous owner flick it shut.

(Sidenote: I finally saw the Miami Vice movie and noticed Will Farrel's character doing it in one scene--the one in the hotel in Haiti. I thought Michael Mann would know better.)

Bush Pilot
September 17, 2008, 12:04 AM
Do it at a gun store, it'll tell the owner you've watched too many black and white detective movies.

SwampWolf
September 17, 2008, 09:21 AM
The practice of flipping the cylinder shut has been called "Bogarting" (after Hollywood tough guy, leading man Humphry Bogart who routinely snapped the cylinder closed on various Dick Specials).

theNoid
September 17, 2008, 10:50 PM
Very interesting SwampWolf, thanks. I had never heard of it being referenced as such, although I may I have heard my sisters cousins uncles brothers roommates pizza delivery guy mention bogarting the bong once or twice...:uhoh:

Noidster

benderx4
September 18, 2008, 01:35 AM
Continuing with this theme, when examining a used revolver for purchase, how would one go about checking the yoke for proper alignment? Is it just a visual thing?

jakk280rem
September 18, 2008, 01:51 AM
bender, kinda like a pool cue. with the cylinder out, rotate it and check for ejector rod woble. and visa versa rotate (not fast) the ejector rod and look for cylinder wobble. also see here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430)for other revolver check out procedures. also, the crane should rotate smoothly with no play in the frame, in and out or side to side.

Daizee
September 19, 2008, 08:26 PM
jakk20rem,

and what do you do about yoke endshake, say a thou or two?
assuming you've already got the gun.

-Daizee

david_the_greek
September 19, 2008, 08:36 PM
hhhmmmm I've definitely never done it..... ok maybe I did. Relatively new gun, thought it couldn't be good but definitely couldn't help myself. Anyone know the likely hood of damage if this has been done maybe 2 dozens times? Knew I should have stuck to auto loaders! Naw, love my 442!

Master Blaster
September 19, 2008, 09:32 PM
Actually the centerpin and ejector rod are most suseptable to damage from this practice and they can be replaced. A bent yoke is more expensive to fix and requires a gunsmith.

Do you pick you dog up by its hind leg?

Dont flick the cylinder closed.

General Geoff
September 19, 2008, 09:38 PM
Unless I have to reload RIGHT NOW and one of my hands is broken, I'm not flicking the cylinder open or closed.

Phydeaux642
September 19, 2008, 11:51 PM
Because the ghosts of Samuel Colt, Dean Wesson and Horace Smith kill a kitten every time you do it.

Who's Dean Wesson?:neener:

swampshooter
September 20, 2008, 12:09 AM
to check for this situation, open cylinder and make sure it's unloaded. then pointing in a safe direction place your index finger at the front of the crane, on the junction of the crane and frame, just under the ejector rod or ejector rod shroud if so equipped. then dry fire it double action, if you feel movement at this joint, the crane is bent. and no , dry firing will not hurt a good revolver in any way. competition shooters dry fire thousands of times.

Dionysusigma
September 20, 2008, 04:55 AM
In a slightly related topic, why is it bad to pull the hammer back slightly and spin the cylinder? I know it's awful to do to the revo, but why?

bigjohnson
September 20, 2008, 11:35 PM
The reason that you don't do this is because unless the cylinder stop is fully depressed, you'll end up with it dragging against the cylinder, leaving a drag mark around the circumference of the cylinder. With single action revolvers, there is a half-cock notch, and when the hammer is in the half-cock position, the cylinder stop is fully depressed. Double action revolvers, however, have no half-cock notch, so when you just pull the hammer back part way, you really have no assurance that the cylinder stop is fully depressed, and may very well end up with a drag mark around the cylinder. A drag mark like that usually indicates that the gun is not timed properly or that it has been handled by an idiot.

TonyB
September 21, 2008, 04:38 PM
had a buddy w/ a new smith and wesson 625(?)Michulek version bring one to show everyone.Another guy who has been shooting for years and should know better,slapped it closed....he almost got slapped himself.If you want to beat your gun up,go ahead,but I always try and respect other peoples guns.I usually even before I dry fire them.

Odd Job
September 21, 2008, 04:50 PM
I have to admit that I also "Bogarted" two revolvers, purely out of ignorance. I learned on this forum that it is a no-no.
I didn't see any warning in the manuals...is this something that should be in the manual or is present in most manuals?

jad0110
September 21, 2008, 05:43 PM
Don't know if it has been mentioned or not, but a bent yolk from "bogarting" a cylinder can cause misalignment of the cylinder to the forcing cone. If it is misaligned enough, you will have a lead spitter on your hands. Not to mention accuracy will suffer, as the bullet will shave itself a bit on one side.

As others have said, if it is bent badly enough the cylinder won't even rotate, assuming you can even get the yolk/cylinder assembly closed at all.

jacksawyer
June 18, 2009, 05:41 PM
Went to the range yesterday with my sp-101 and brand new 686. My friend tried to flick it 2-3 times on both revolvers. I then told him not to do it. Whats the possiblility of damage?

Jack

rcmodel
June 18, 2009, 05:51 PM
Used to be, you could just look at the frame / crane joint on a S&W and tell if the crane was sprung. They were so well fitted that you could hardly see the gap.

Now, they make them with a crack big enough to stick your fingernail in!

rc

Blakenzy
June 18, 2009, 06:04 PM
What about the ejector rod and the rod (whatever its name is) that runs down the center of the cylinder? Can that assembly get bent right where the cylinder contacts the yoke, leaving an off center cylinder?

rcmodel
June 18, 2009, 06:07 PM
Yes, it could get bent, but probably not from flicking the cylinder closed.

The rear locking pin would engage the recoil shield hole at the same time the crane slammed into the frame, so the rear of the cylinder would be stopped at the same time as the front.

It will eventually beat out the hole in the recoil shield & loosen the gun up however.

rc

Blakenzy
June 18, 2009, 06:31 PM
So could any of this damage cause the stop to get hung up on one of the cylinder notches (not clear it in time to rotate smoothly), creating a heavy and jerky trigger pull? So you get five "normal trigger pulls and one or two adjacent "unusual" ones..

.38 Special
June 18, 2009, 09:27 PM
In a slightly related topic, why is it bad to pull the hammer back slightly and spin the cylinder? I know it's awful to do to the revo, but why?

I have seen a great number of NRA action shooters do this after every reload, to ensure that the cylinder will not drag during the string. Yes, it makes a line on the cylinder, but this does not affect the functionality of the gun in any way. And on a stainless competition gun that sees 100,000 rounds a year and already looks like hell, nobody cares.

But try it on that blued, unfired collectible S&W and the owner may well smack you for it.

CTSigLover
June 18, 2009, 09:49 PM
although I may I have heard my sisters cousins uncles brothers roommates pizza delivery guy mention bogarting the bong once or twice...

Bogarting has a completely different meaning when applied to cannabis or paraphernalia...;)

Bogart (noun): A very long inhalation of smoke, particularly marijuana.

Bogart (verb): To selfishly take or keep something; to hog; especially to hold a joint (marijuana) dangling between the lips instead of passing it on.

dullh
June 18, 2009, 10:12 PM
"Flicking" the cylinder shut will bend the crane. That's the thick metal thing that swings out, holding the ejector rod, rod shroud and cylinder. Bend the crane and wreck the charge hole-to-forcing cone alignment. "Flicking" the cylinder open/shut like you see in the movies is the mark of someone with poor handling skills. It ain't cool to wreck a revolver in such a fashion.

BCRider
June 18, 2009, 10:38 PM
This is one of those things where it may or may not do any damage. It all depends on how hard the person flicks it. Done just right so there is just enough force to slide into place and stop the travel just as the cylinder pin snaps into place there would be no damage at all. But good luck on THAT count. Most folks that flick the cylinder into place do so with gusto to feel the cylinder SLAM in their hand and THAT means a lot of left over force to do the damage so often mentioned above.

Design wise the typical double action swing out crane and cylinder pivots is not all that tough. In fact it really is a tradeoff in a lot of ways. It's not intended to be abused and won't tolerate much unknowing ignorance or determined stupidity.

orionengnr
June 19, 2009, 01:01 AM
Because it is what idiots do. Want to be one of them? Carry on.

This is one of those things where it may or may not do any damage. Yeah, just like shooting yourself in the head with a blank. :rolleyes:
Go for it.

danbrew
June 19, 2009, 01:28 AM
Also, bad for the yoke. I've several times turned away used revolvers because I saw the previous owner flick it shut.

It kept me from buying a brand new $900 gun a few days ago when I handed it back to the guy behind the counter and was moments from saying "I'll take it" when he flicked the cylinder closed. Ouch. I decided to look at a few more and he did the same to all of them. I had to ask myself how many times he had done that when showing revolvers and how many times for the particular gun I wanted. I passed on it, figuring I'll find another one elsewhere.

loneviking
June 19, 2009, 05:38 AM
And flicking it closed may not bend the crane but may bend the locking pin and a handful of other internal parts including the pawl. The first S&W I bought was a Mod. 65-6, and the cylinder release felt odd--like it was sticky. I tried a couple of other S&W's and they also felt a bit odd so I figured it was because I was used to Colts. This was a used gun, and I got it home and tried firing it with snap caps and the cylinder would hang up from time to time and refuse to open. I tried firing the gun with different weight bullets, same deal---sometimes the cylinder would release, sometimes it wouldn't but the gun would always fire.

I took it to a master gunsmith that lives locally to have him look at it. He said somebody had been flicking the cylinder shut hanging up the locking rod and bending/stressing other internal parts. Somebody had also been fanning the hammer, another thing you should not do to a double action revolver. I was patient and he took his time fixing the gun better than new, but it took quite a bit of work. Learn your weapons and how to handle them! And don't take lessons from Hollyweird!! :banghead:

bottom shelf
June 19, 2009, 09:56 AM
Somebody had also been fanning the hammer, another thing you should not do to a double action revolver.
What's "fanning the hammer"?

TexasRifleman
June 19, 2009, 10:08 AM
What's "fanning the hammer"?

You know, the old cowboy movie trick of holding the trigger down and continually smacking the hammer back, letting it fall onto the next round.

Puts a lot of extra wear on all the trigger group parts and can ruin a nice trigger pull.

geologist
June 19, 2009, 01:18 PM
Whenever I take a newbie shooting with revolvers, I make sure to tell them twice, not to snap the cylinder shut or I'll be forced to smack them on the head.

BCRider
June 19, 2009, 01:23 PM
Because it is what idiots do. Want to be one of them? Carry on.



This is one of those things where it may or may not do any damage.

Yeah, just like shooting yourself in the head with a blank.
Go for it.

Orionengnr, you read my post out of context or perhaps I didn't explain it well.

The point I was trying to make is that it is POSSIBLE to snap it in without damage if JUST the right force is used. But then I went on to say that anyone doing such a thing generally uses way too much force and THAT is bad.

I've never snapped mine in and never will because I don't trust myself to do it "just right".

yeti
June 19, 2009, 02:13 PM
Why not flick cylinder closed?


Cause it is not really all that hard to close the cylinder correctly.

jad0110
June 19, 2009, 05:20 PM
It kept me from buying a brand new $900 gun a few days ago when I handed it back to the guy behind the counter and was moments from saying "I'll take it" when he flicked the cylinder closed. Ouch.

Saw a gunshop employee do that, literally, about 20 times with an older S&W Model 65. Quite violently. I'd just about bet my house that revolver was FUBAR after he was done with it.

:barf::barf::barf:

I remember handling a Ruger Speed Six (chambered in 9mm - could have been a Service Six) with loads of slop/play in the cylinder / crane assembly. To my eye, the cylinder was clearly misaligned with the forcing cone. I can only assume that the same knucklehead had tortured that once fine revolver as well. :cuss:

Too bad, 9mm Ruger Sixes are pretty freakin' rare. Sigh, what disappointment after feeling such initial excitement.

psyopspec
June 19, 2009, 05:30 PM
The OP was asked and answered 9 months ago. Probably no need to continue piling on responses that were voiced by others the better part of a year ago.

jacksawyer
June 23, 2009, 11:37 PM
What's OP

BHP FAN
June 23, 2009, 11:57 PM
the Original Poster...or guy who had the question that started the ''thread''.

Tom609
June 24, 2009, 12:01 AM
OP = Original poster...

Just yesterday I was watching "The Deer Hunter" and noticed this practice in the scenes where they played Russian Roulette and the ref (?) would spin the cylinder and slap it closed before presenting the revolver to the player.

Funderb
June 24, 2009, 12:08 AM
I lick them shut, is this bad?

Ty 357
June 26, 2009, 02:36 PM
Quote: "I lick them shut, is this bad?"

Only if you forget to wipe it down...saliva, while a perfectly acceptable tooth lubricant, can reek havoc on a licked cylinder. Lick away just don't forget the rem-oil. (Gold cylinders and gold teeth excluded of course)

Reid73
June 26, 2009, 06:01 PM
Well crap, just color me a mallninja then...lol, sorry haven't done it much and really had no idea it wasn't a smart thing to do...DOH!!!At least this thread has served some purpose. I am sure that you will not do it again, now that you know better.

It kept me from buying a brand new $900 gun a few days ago when I handed it back to the guy behind the counter and was moments from saying "I'll take it" when he flicked the cylinder closed. Ouch.
Saw a gunshop employee do that, literally, about 20 times with an older S&W Model 65.Well, let's face it: like those in other retail sales positions, many gunshop employees are bored, uneducated dolts who are unqualified for better paying jobs.

Fortunately, some gunshop employees are real aficionados with a genuine knowledge of and passion for firearms. Those are the people I try to deal with.

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