[TonyB]

OK I feel like an A$$.....I pride myself on being a VERY safe shooter,always watching my muzzle,waiting for range commands etc...Last night at IDPA I did a HUGE NO NO...I dropped my freaking gun!!I was shooting a stage and I guess I overloaded my mag for my Glock 17.It was my reload,so on the second shot I had a FTF.while trying to fix the situation,somehow I dropped my gun,loaded ,w/ one in the pipe.It flipped end over end and landed in front of me ,pointing at the Safety Officer.......Usually it's grounds to be sent home,but there was only 3 of us there.We were both freaked,and my next 2 stages sucked,I was really shaken.....Thank God no one was hurt.Glad it was a Glock(those safeties DO work.)
Now I feel like quitting IDPA all together.The SA made me feel OK about it,everyone makes mistakes,but this is a BIG one.
Anyway I just had to get it off my chest........I'm going to call the director of our league(who wasn't there)and see what I should do...or am I making too much of this???:(

[Nightcrawler]

Relax. People drop things.

You carry a weapon with you (in your hands) long enough, and eventually you're going to slip. I've dropped M16s before. I've even dropped the SAW a couple times (when the sling gets twisted a certain way, it can actually unclip the front part of the sling, sending your muzzle into the dirt). All of these events were followed by pushups on my part, but it's nothing to beat yourself up over. A modern pistol will not "go off" when dropped.

[Sven]

Sorry to hear that, but nobody was hurt.

Don't quit - practice dry at home... put mags and live ammo AWAY and then get a training mag or a mag you mark, stuffed with snap caps. Practice mag changes while moving, etc. Make sure to press check before dry firing, even if you are SURE its a snap cap, and always point it in a safe direction.

The "bad guys" in my room are always in the brick fireplace. ;)

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Stuff happens----get over it and keep shooting---lesson learned.

[Sean Smith]

Not that big a deal IMHO, as long as you don't try to catch it on the way down (which is VERY unsafe). Dropping your gun isn't good, but it isn't anywhere near in the same class as stuff like a ND or pointing the muzzle at somebody. Just hold harder next time. ;)

[OF]

Don't sweat it. Guns only go off when dropped in the movies...unless it's a really old gun :) The big deal is to not try and catch the thing. Just let it go.

- Gabe

[New_comer]

It was my reload,so on the second shot I had a FTF.while trying to fix the situation,somehow I dropped my gun,loaded ,w/ one in the pipe Now, I'd like to be edumacated, need you to clarify something...

Could you go over this again? FTF due to stuck follower, jammed bullets?

Were you hammering the grip end against your palm or your knee to free up the bullets? Second shot FTF meant the bullet didn't go fully in the chamber?

You'll have to excuse me. I can't imagine a shooter letting a gun fall unless it was knocked off in a 'hard' collision with an obstacle, you tripped, or a sudden bout with epilepsy.

Not that the gun had a mind of its own and tried to complete the obstacle by itself, but as responsible gunowners it pays to be always deliberate in our actuations, even the manner we recall the error of our ways... ;)

[hksw]

That's what the safety trigger is for, isn't it?

[Silent Bob]

Even Dave Sevigny once dropped a gun during a match. Don't beat yourself up over it.

[Mike Irwin]

That's pretty mild, actually.

I've seen guys put rounds into the ground about a foot in front of them during the draw, and one guy put a round in a light fixture directly over his head...

[TonyB]

New Comer:When I put my 2nd mag in,I think it had 11 rounds in it.So after the one in the chamber went off,the next one went click.....I did the usual "tap,rack" deal but the slide was stuck back and one round was partially in the barrel and the slide was caught on the next one in the mag.While trying to get the mag out I dropped the gun...not really sure what exactly happened.....I'm thinking the slide slammed forward and I didn't have a good enough hold on the gun and it went flying.....again I'm not really sure.The slide was forward after it fell,and there was a round in the chamber...Probably couldn't do it again if I tried(hopefully).
Like I said I'm usually very safe when shooting,so that's why this bothers me..
I guess what I should've done is just stop.....forget about the stage and fix the problem SLOWLY.....I think I was hurrying,thinking I could still save the stage...Just glad no one got hurt..
and thanks for the words of encouragment....they mean a lot..

[FPrice]

Don't beat yourself up. That's what yer friends at THR are for! :D

Seriously tho, your best bet is to relax, take a deep breath, think about what you did, and train yourself to never do it again. Don't let it dominate your thinking. It happened, but everyone is okay, learn from it and move on.

Here endeth the lesson.

[C. H. Luke]

"....or am I making too much of this?"

Tony,

Give yourself a break! Dropping your pistol isn't that big of a mistake in my book. Locally we don't DQ guys for dropping guns, etc. unless it's truly dangerous. All of us screw up no matter how much experience or skill we have.
Why not look at it as a learning experience? Chances are this is burned into your unconcious so well you'll never do it again anyway.
When I "hand-Out" FTDR's or DQ's I always ask myself how safe & how's this guys attitude in GENERAL, etc. The way you come across in your post provides an easy answer........you're obvioulsy more tthan able to get your act together
all on your own and don't need a proceedural penalty, etc. to keep you in line.
Give your mind time to work thru this and I think you'll be laughing about it in a few weeks!
Don't Quit! Your head is in ther right place................

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Well, you couldn't have found a better gun to drop.:D I'll bet it was hard to tell where it bounced off the concrete.

Had it been a really light triggered SA auto, who knows what would have happened?


Don't feel too bad. When I started there was a scenerio that involved carrying around a manaquin. I ended up pointing my gun at the RO while trying to manuever the thing. He saw my trigger finger was well outside the triggerguard, so no hard feelings. If he hadn't sent me home, I would have left myself, after that. Next week, no problems.

[Blueduck]

I know people love to "Cop bash" on gun handling skills but one of the best shots I've met who happened to be a Highway Patrolman put his whole G-27 through a sillouette target about 7 yards downrange during a quick draw at one qualification. He took some ribbing but didn;t turn in his badge over it ;)

It should not happen, but does. Sounds like you didn't grab for it as it was falling, thats what gets people killed.

[sshbiker]

TonyB,

Please don't stop shooting IDPA. The very purpose of training is to condition yourself to handle such unexpected problems. I remember a quote from somewhere:

"You don't rise up to an occasion, you sink down to the lowest level of training."

Continue your training . . . maybe add some grip tape to your Glock and do a few malfuction clearance drills a day.

-Shawn

[Navy joe]

I feel like you shoulda been DQ'd, but I'd have no problem shooting with you the next week. The DQ just enforces the lesson learned and it's the rules for unsafe gun handling.

Don't quit IDPA, but find a match speed that feels within your comfort zone, don't try and be rocketman and tense up. Less bad things happen that way.

How exactly were you clearing this thing? My fix is to actuate the mag button and rip the mag, the half fed round comes with it. Insert fresh mag and resume.

I've dropped two guns, one the holster broke as I caught the gun on the edge of my car seat and landed in the floor pointing at me, the other I dropped my pretty SR70 Colt on the sidewalk because I was lazy getting out of the car and just tucked it under my arm for the walk to the house. Never again.

It should not happen, but does. Sounds like you didn't grab for it as it was falling, thats what gets people killed.

Totally agree, get the heck out of the way.

[New_comer]

When I put my 2nd mag in,I think it had 11 rounds in it. So after the one in the chamber went off,the next one went click.....I did the usual "tap, rack" deal but the slide was stuck back and one. While trying to get the mag out I dropped the gun...not really sure what exactly happened.....I'm thinking the slide slammed forward and I didn't have a good enough hold on the gun and it went flying.....again I'm not really sure.The slide was forward after it fell,and there was a round in the chamber...Probably couldn't do it again if I tried(hopefully).
Like I said I'm usually very safe when shooting,so that's why this bothers me...
I guess what I should've done is just stop.....forget about the stage and fix the problem SLOWLY.....I think I was hurrying,thinking I could still save the stage... Now, that's more like it! :D

Experience is the best teacher. Knowing how it happened allows for corrections to preclude recurrence. You did good.

Thanks for sharing, and never stop shooting! ;)

[Standing Wolf]

Now I feel like quitting IDPA all together.

Shooters aren't quitters. Put your chin back up where it belongs, square your shoulders, bear your learned lesson in mind, and do better next time.

[WonderNine]

Relax. People drop things.

What he said ^^^^^^

[cool45auto]

Don't let it stop you from doing something you enjoy, live and learn.

[Jim Watson]

TonyB
You should have been disqualified in order to:
1. Impress on you the seriousness of your actions.
2. Get you off the range while shaken up.

As Navy Joe said, you would have been welcomed back the next match, no need to beat yourself up and quit shooting. Just take your lumps like a man and resolve to do better. Most of us do, including David Sevigny, the SSP National Champion... and me, captain of Team Mediocre.

I am against cutting people slack on rules, especially safety rules, because they are:
1. New and don't know better.
2. Experienced and hardly ever screw up.
3. The SO's best buddy.
4. At a small event.
5. Lucky that nobody got hurt, after all.

[TonyB]

Yeah,this was the 1st thing I've done that was unsafe...I've been shooting IDPA for almost a year,and my record is good.
I'll keep shooting IDPA.It took a while to find a shooting sport I liked and did well in,so I'll definatly cut myself some slack.....I'll shoot next week and see how I do.I did regain my self and do pretty good in the last 4 stages(0 down on all 4)....I think next time I have a feeding problem ,I'll just handle it different...thanks again for the encouragment....:cool:

[Partisan Ranger]

Aren't most handguns pretty rigorously drop tested to prevent discharges in these situations? I know my K-9 was drop tested, I'd think Glocks are too.:confused:

[TonyB]

I hope so.....I did my own drop test,and thank God the safeties worked:D

[Archer]

One reason people are DQd after an event like that is similar to the reason the rules require the SO- not the shooter- to retrieve the dropped firearm- many people are so shaken after a mistake like that, they are highly distracted and possibly unsafe in subsequent action.


As for the clearance drill:
My fix is to actuate the mag button and rip the mag, the half fed round comes with it. Insert fresh mag and resume.

You missed an important step.

First lock the slide back, then rip the mag, rack-rack-rack and roll, then reload.

[Jim Watson]

True, most modern guns are intended to be drop safe but you shouldn't depend on a mechanical contrivance to take care of you. Also, you could make things worse by grabbing at it as it falls, there was one such case reported here this year.

And my second point might have been the more important. You need a cooling off period after an accident. We had a Cowboy shooter drop an **EMPTY** gun on Sunday. SASS makes that only a stage DQ so he could keep on shooting the match. He was both shaken and mad. He made an absolute fool of himself on the next stage and continued the rest of the day. IDPA or IPSC would have sat him down for the match to cool off and consider his error.

[Navy joe]

You missed an important step.

First lock the slide back, then rip the mag, rack-rack-rack and roll, then reload.

No, I see no reason to fart around locking the slide back. Everything I can set up in the gun from double feed, failure to fire, nosedived rounds, failure to eject, etc. can be cleared without locking back. Takes time and for me(lefty) re-gripping the gun. With his 11 round nosedive a firm whack to the mag followed by one to the back of the slide probably would have cured it, but if not, rip the mag. Glocks are good for that, there is a lot to grab of the mag. Insert fresh mag, rack and go.

[Mikul]

You did a major screw up. Understand what specifically led up to the problem and do everything possible to make sure that it ever happens again... but don't quit.

We have a standing policy at the IDPA matches we run and at our other shooting events that if anything like that happens, the shooter is done for the day. It's not exactly punishment, but when you do something like that, it messes with your head and makes it likely that you'll make another mistake.

[goon]

I was at the range last week. It is at a sportsmans' club so there are sometimes people that I don't know shooting with me.
One thing I learned about them is that you have to treat them like kids.
Keep your eyes on them all the time.
Case in point: There was this guy there last week zeroing in his rifle. I was getting some long overdue practice with my P-225. The guy would occasionally wander off to let the gun cool and escape the mosquitos.
No big deal since he stayed on the safe side of the range.
I had just finished reloading my mags, and I locked and loaded. I had the gun pointed downrange, at the ground directly in front of me about six feet away.
I look up, and there he is downrange looking at his target.
Not really that serious, but it still bothered me for about three days.
So another lesson; watch them like a hawk.

[Correia]

I dropped a gun once during a match. Luckily it wasn't while I was shooting. We had just finished a stage, and were moving to a different bay at the other end of the range. As I got into my buddy's jeep my gun caught on the door frame and got pulled right out of the holster. :D I felt it go as I sat down, and heard a clunk as it landed on the gravel.

The gun was empty, so no biggie, I just picked it up and shot the rest of the match. Nobody saw it happen except for me. Still felt like an idiot however.

[Correia]

And on a side note, we have had 2 guys drop guns at 3 gun matches this year. Both guns fell out of their holsters. Why? Guys will show up with IPSC speed rigs that are designed to hold the gun while you walk to the shoot box and thats about it. 3 gun requires you to do a lot of running around shooting a long arm with you pistol in the holster. Those speed holsters suck at retention.

[Akurat]

You're human. No one is going to think any less of you, so don't even worry about it. ** it happens.

[KarlG]

Thank you for posting TonyB. It has been reinforced in the thread to not grab for a gun that has been dropped. This may save my life or the life of a friend some day.

[spacemanspiff]

one of the best shots I've met who happened to be a Highway Patrolman put his whole G-27 through a sillouette target about 7 yards downrange during a quick draw at one qualification
maybe thats why my buddy tossed his shotgun at a bear last summer? heheh...

[EricO]

TonyB: I believe you should've been DQ'd for several reasons posted here, namely safety and also there shouldn't be exceptions made. However, as others have pointed out, this is no reason to quit or ostracise yourself from IDPA. Take it to heart, analyze fully what happened, and then move on.

I'm more interested, and concerned, in why you dropped your handgun during what appears to have been a type 3 malfunction (double feed). In order to have dropped from your grasp, you must have opened your hand up at some point, or altered your firing grip to allow this to happen. For all malf. clearances, perhaps the only time you would have to alter your grasp (from a strong, firing grip) would be on the type 3, when and if you needed to shift slightly in order to lock the slide back (if you utulize that method). You mentioned that you dropped it when you were trying to insert the fresh mag, which makes me believe you probably compromised your firing grip, got flustered under the stress of a malf clearance, and then dropped the handgun. On a fullsize Glock frame you don't need to move your little finger off the frame so you don't pinch it during the reload, unless you have very, very big hands. Think about how you must have had your handgun gripped at the point of your dropping it and you'll be able to find out how it happened.

Aahh..., I just reread your postings and see that you dropped it during attempting to extract the mag, after you performed an immediate reaction drill/type 1-2 malf clearance (TRB-or assess). I believe you possibly became flustered after this didn't clear the problem and under the stress of the timer going, you bobbled the more time consuming type 3 clearance.

Train on that clearance method, and keep a firm grip at all times. The slide slamming forward (as you stated) should not have any contribution to you losing your grip and dropping the handgun if you had the proper, firm grip during the drill. Set up (with dummy training rounds) the same malf and train at home until you can do it 2nd nature. Good luck

EricO

[Al Thompson]

Use it as a learning experiance. One of the best IDPA shooters and supporters here DQ'd his first match.

Frankly, you learn more from mistakes than successes.

[TamThompson]

Don't beat yourself up over it--it's now a valuable lesson you'll never forget. Keep going out to IDPA. I seriously doubt you'll drop another gun. All of the recent model Glocks (generation 3?) are drop-safe. Most LE departments won't buy them if they're not.

Learn your lesson, and keep going forward with the IDPA!

[TonyB]

I shot again last night,w/out incident...I actually did really well.I'm back,baby!!I'm taking things slower when there is a malfunction(although there was none last night)and being less concerned w/ my time.Thanks for all the encouragement>>:cool:

[W Turner]

Don't ever forget what happened, or more importantly, how it happened.

I had a much worse screw-up a few months ago (broke one of the four rules). I don't want to get into details, but suffice it to say that I should have been DQ'd, and would have been at most other matches. I will never forget the mistake I made, but I still shoot IDPA and love it.

mino

[GSB]

redacted as question was already answered, had I read.

[whitebear]

I dropped my pistol on the third to last stage of my first IDPA match and was DQed- then while walking back to the truck, I stepped on something wrong and blew out my left knee, requiring surgery.

At least you are back! I'm still rehabing...

[New_comer]

All's well that end's well... ;)


Enjoy your shooting. Remember, it's only a game... :)

[akanotken]

I know I've learned something, warnings never to try to catch the firearm in midair. I could see myself trying that if I hadn't got these warnings. That trigger guard has got to be a finger magnet in that situation. Much better to let it drop!

My learning experience. (Also IDPA) Borrowed a vest, shooting one of my pistols I haven't shot a lot. Swiped the vest a couple of times before being on the line (testing the weight in the pocket). At the line when going for time I swept the vest and found an empty holster, half sec later I heard it rattle at my feet. Vest had caught the pistol's rear sight, lifted it up out of the holster and dropped it right at the back of my foot. If I had to do it all over again I would have remembered my vest, and I would have practiced the combo using an empty gun and a par timer at home.

Also, my free advice. This only after a handful of malfunctions. Once I have a malfunction I mentally shut the match down and get excited about clearing a malf on the clock. Don't know if that makes sense. There'll be plenty of matches to win later, but these are the only time I get to work on this valuable skill with a little pressure.

Changed my mind, you owe me $.02 :neener:

[Dashunde]

One night, after cleaning several guns, including my USP.40, I cycled a round in then dropped the clip to continue loading it - I had a HUGE brain fart 3 minutes later when I put the clip in and then pulled the trigger and hit the decocker at the same time!
Fortunately, as habit, the muzzle was pointed up and away and the ceiling and my ears paid for my error. (Bullet was caught by a rafter and did not leave the house.)

I had inteded to manually decock, (why? I dont know.), but I put my thumb on the safety/decocker instead of the hammer.


The following rules were driven home permanently by my error:

I own several guns - PAY ATTENTION to which one is actually in my hand!

Do NOT let anyone or anything else in the room distract me... TV, wife, Dog, etc..

No matter the situation - always keep it pointed in a safe direction.
Having this habit during my "brain fart" kept things from getting very ugly.

Develope a consistent routine for handling and DO NOT deviate from that routine - Normally, I load the clip, then insert it, chamber a round, decock, set safety - THEN I drop the clip and add that last round. I did not follow my normal routine and the results were not good.

I now prefer simple guns with very few leavers and gadgets...