Best Tackdriving .22?


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Olympus
September 15, 2008, 09:32 AM
I went to the range yesterday for some stress relief and brought my Ruger 10/22. I hadn't shot that thing in a long time and forgot how much fun it was to shoot. I called my dad afterwards and told him about shooting it and how good it shot. He told me I needed to buy a tackdriver .22 and I'd really have fun. He says he has a Ruger bolt action that had been customized and he says he can put 5 shots in a dime at 50 yards with it. He's a pretty good shot so I think he probably could.

So here's my question, are there any bolt action .22s that are tackdrivers? If so, what are they and what price range are they in? I wouldn't mind spending a little more money on a really accurate .22 because I would save that much on ammo with a larger bore rifle.

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Double Naught Spy
September 15, 2008, 09:36 AM
I am looking as well. What I have come up with so far is the CZ452 as a likely best candidate at a reasonable price.

Olympus
September 15, 2008, 10:19 AM
Yeah those are pretty reasonably priced. Haven't heard much about how they shoot though.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 15, 2008, 10:22 AM
What's the budget?

Anschutz is the gold standard, among new rifles. Also Walther, Pardini, RWS, and some others.

Among used, Winchester 52 and some other ones are renowned for accuracy.

On a budget, yep, CZ452 is a good way to go.

johnson_n
September 15, 2008, 10:28 AM
Look at last month's rimfire shoot. Targets were at 50 yard and I believe someone had a 452 American with a scope that had great grouping.

Olympus
September 15, 2008, 10:30 AM
Well I'd say around $600 or $650 I'd give for the absolute most accurate I could get with that money. What's your suggestions for those criteria?

22-rimfire
September 15, 2008, 10:50 AM
Current Guns:
Thompson Center R-55 (semi-auto)
CZ452 or 453 American (bolt action)
Savage Mark II (bolt action)-great reputation
Weatherby Mark XXII (bolt action)-exceeds budget; price around $800
Remington Model 547 (bolt action) -exceeds budget at $1000
Ruger 77/22 (bolt action)-No experience with these; hit or miss in accuracy dept from what I read. Some great!
Marlin 39A (lever action) -probably will shoot 0.5" at 50 yds.

Other rifles-generally used :
Remington Model 541-S or 541-T; at limits of budget $ Excellent Rifles with the 541-S tending to shoot better (and cost more).
Anything Anschutz-generally >$1000 and budget $. Can be bought new of course.
Mossberg 144
Kimber Model 82-generally >$1000
Winchester Model 52-generally exceeds budget

Other Rifles:
Remington 504-hit or miss; many don't shoot good in 22LR without changing the barrel.
Remington Model Five-not sure how they shoot. Probably will do 0.5" at 50yds.
Winchester Wildcat-very new, made by TOZ (Russian)
Coopers-all exceed budget, however really fine rifles.
Suhl-Russian made and run around $1000; generally tack drivers and are classic target rifles

The best bang for the buck are the CZ's and the Savage.

retgarr
September 15, 2008, 10:55 AM
Just so you know, the Remington Model 5 is the old Zatava that was imported by Charles Daly

Old Grump
September 15, 2008, 11:00 AM
Most decent bolt action rifles will give you more accuracy than you can stand and Savage and CZ are on the top of my list for something that won't break the budget. I'm still putting them in there with a single shot savage I bought in 1964 for $28. Just keep in mind that your best results will come with the proper bullet. I spent nearly $1,000 trying to find the perfect bullet for my 10/22 with its 20" bull barrel and the 2 I found that worked best weren't anywhere near the cost of the more expensive bullets, go figure.

22-rimfire
September 15, 2008, 11:24 AM
Dime sized groups are not extremely difficult to shoot at 25 yds. It becomes more difficult at 50 yds and extremely difficult at 100 yds. Most of the good sporter rifles will often shoot 0.5" or better at 50 yds out of the box. You will probably need the help of a good scope. IF you can't see it, you can't shoot it. The high magnification scopes really help you have the exact same aiming point shot after shot which is what you need for good groups. Ammo comes into play also and generally standard velocity ammunition will be more consistant and give better groups. However, 22 rifles have this habit of preferring certain ammunition and it varies from rifle to rifle; sometimes even the same manufacturer.

Tarvis
September 15, 2008, 12:10 PM
A bolt action with hand loads and a good scope using either a good rest or perfect technique.

ambidextrous1
September 15, 2008, 12:30 PM
Hand loads? Hand loads? Hand loads? :confused:

Sleeping Dog
September 15, 2008, 12:45 PM
Hand loads?
I have some brass, just can't figure out how to de-prime it?

Anyway, my best shooting .22 is a Remington 40-x that I got from CMP a couple of years ago. Routine 10's & X's with the iron sight at 100yds (from a bench). Not something I'd want to carry all day, though.

rswartsell
September 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
I have a great deal of experience with a Ruger 77/22 (Leupold Rimfire 4X), and accuracy was great. Can't speak for all examples of the breed but this one was a legit tack driver. Especially with CCI Green Tag. Some frustration and replacement around those rotary mags though.

LopezEL
September 15, 2008, 12:51 PM
cz 452 lux if you want to shoot iron sights... the best iron sights on a 22 period.

cz 452 american if you want to scope it.

My 452 lux will usually give me .5" groups at 50 yards with American Eagle ammo. It has a cheap Simmons 22 mag 3-9x32mm on it. Its so accurate it gets boring... when I want a challenge I usually take the scope off and shoot iron sights at 100 yards. I just move the front sight to the 100 yard line and If I do my part, I can usually get about 1-1.5" group.

WC145
September 15, 2008, 01:31 PM
Any of the Savage MK II's with the Accutrigger are reasonably priced and wicked accurate. I recently purchased a MKII BV and have shot it with a Nikon 3-9 and a Mueller 4.5-14 and have no trouble with dime sized groups at 50yds with pretty much any ammo though the target and subsonic stuff shoots best.

yesit'sloaded
September 15, 2008, 01:34 PM
Just drop a nice barrel and a nice stock like a Fajen on that 10/22 and it will literally drive tacks at 25 yards.

CRITGIT
September 15, 2008, 01:52 PM
You can build a tack driver like one of mine for under your figures
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Rimfire01/WalnutCudasm.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Rimfire01/YellowJacket2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Rimfire01/Tundras2tkfin.jpg
All roll-yur-own 1022's...........All kill flies @ 50 yds!:)

CRITGIT

highlander 5
September 15, 2008, 02:01 PM
New barrel and a trigger assembly kit will make your Ruger shoot much better cost about $150.

elmerfudd
September 15, 2008, 03:43 PM
Since you already have the 10/22, why not build it up? This is one case where you really can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 03:59 PM
I have several tack drivers and have been using them quite a bit as of late (cheap shootin'). In short, I agree with everyone who has recommended the CZs and Savages. They both offer good selections, especially Savage, and so far, I have not run across one that would not shoot half inch groups at 50 yards. I do not have an Anshutz or a Cooper. I want one (or more) of each but they are just out of my price range.

Savage MkII BTV ($420 MSRP) with Weaver Classic V 4-16 target dot
Off of a bag, using cheap ole Federal Champions, 5-shot group
25 yards . . . one less ragged hole
50 yards . . . one ragged hole
100 yards . . . 1.2 inch (probably more to do with operator failure)

I got the same groups with Aguila Super Maximum Solids but I ran them through Paco Kelly's Acu-Rzr (more precise bullet diameter).

The AccuTrigger looks weird and takes a very little to get used to, but it is great and adjustable.

CZ 452 Lux ($360) with Leupold Vari-X II 4x
First off, this thing will eat anything 40 grains and less, loves champions.
25 yards . . . one less ragged hole
50 yards . . . one ragged hole

Trigger is not that great, but better than Ruger's. However it is adjustable for poundage. Mine, with the factory spring, pulls at about 2.5-2.75 - as light as it will go. Eric Brooks has a trigger package for these guns (~$15) that can be ordered from his website. Fuzzy Limey (another available website) has instructions on adjusting the trigger with just a little effort. I adjusted mine for creep and overtravel. Pretty easy and makes a world of difference.

This gun no longer has an optic on it as the elevation adjustable rear tangent is just too fun open sight . . . and it's accurate for high velocity cheap stuff. Guys at the range with their ARs shoot at a 200 yard target, or try to. I can't drive tacks at that distance, but I can hit the paper plate, open sight, EVERY TIME. Be aware that this thing has a 3/8ths dovetail for mounting optics. Easy enough to find rings, just don't plan on using a Weaver mount without some adapters.

Back on the 40 grains and less. Hates 60s. I think it has to do with the 1:16 twist. You need a little quicker turn for the heavier stuff. I see that in my WMRs as well. Haven't tested them in other rifles but expect the same.

CZ 453 American ($550) with the Leupold off the Lux (Vari-X II 4x)
This thing has a wonderful set trigger and was my squirrel gun until I let my Dad shoot it. Now it's his squirrel gun.
25 yards . . . I didn't group it at 100 but it shoots just like the Lux only with a better trigger. Sorry, I've only started playing with 100 yards recently.
I did float the barrel to get the groups. It was pretty good to start, if I remember. I just wanted to float a barrel and it did improve.

Browning Buckmark Target Rifle ($550) with Weaver Classic V 4-16 (great scope!)
This of course is an auto . . . a nice one. It has a good trigger and I like the feel of the short rifle. It has also seen a great deal of action with squirrels and field rats.
25 yards . . . 0.4" group
50 yards . . . just under an inch
This rifle still sees rat action, but mostly I use it and the Lux for shooting steel targets at those two yardages. It's not a tack driver, but pretty decent for out of the box. Loves CCI Minimags and cheap Federal Copper Coated bulk. Hates Aguila and Winchester. I shot Remington Subsonics for quite some time. I only left them for something a little flatter shooting. Ironically, it soesn't like Green Tags. My Dad did buy one that wouldn't shoot well.

My buddies have different CZs and Savages - some cheap, some not. They all shoot the same. I have to highly recommend the Remington 541, as well. My buddy's is called "ticklicker". We put up a white sheet of paper just off the ground . . . ticks come running . . . then we shoot the ticks . . . really. I don't know offhand what the optic is, but it's big and clear. I think my new Savage will do the same . . . no ticks to try it at the range.

I also have a Kimber. It was given to me. Shoots great, fine trigger, really nice to look at. Scratched it at the range and cried. The Buckmark and the American . . . the scratches and dings are just part of their character. IF you can afford it, the Kimber IS nice.

10/22s can be very accurate. The Kimber and the Buckmark entered my life at the same time I was fed up with the Ruger trigger so it got put aside. However, I did take the trigger apart and just buffed off the rough with microfinishing film. Still safe and improved the trigger considerably. One guy with a Volquartsen unit outshoots me all the time at the range.

Last note to this epic . . . you don't see Lapua or Eley anywhere in my post. If I wanted to pay that kind of money for rounds down range, I can almsot load my .257 Roberts for that. Plus, there's the Acu'Rzr. I've gotten Remington Golden Bullets that were shooting at 1.5 at 25 yards to pull in to 0.5 inch. An inch better group! I still have flyers and even popcorn bursts, but for the most part, I'm getting target accuracy from bulk ammo, but giving up the true consistency of the higher priced stuff.

JTW Jr.
September 15, 2008, 04:00 PM
I purchased a Savage GVXP from Dick's Sporting goods , tossed the package scope after a few weeks ( Simmons 8 point ) , replaced it with a Mueller APV , for under $350 for rifle and scope , it will shoot dime sized groups at 50 yards with Federal 510 ( or Aquila ) when I do my part.
Havent had the chance to shoot it much past 50 yards yet as I keep the targets to a max of 50 when I have my 8 year old son with me.
Even with him behind the trigger , from the bench the 1 1/2" steel spinners are not even a challenge for him anymore.

ldp4570
September 15, 2008, 04:07 PM
CMP has Kimber 82's and Mossberg 44's for sale. Kimber will run you 600 and the Mossberg 175. The Mossbergs have issues, but the Kimbers are clean!!!! Well worth the 600.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 15, 2008, 04:17 PM
Cinteal knows how to make an entrance! Welcome. :)

kludge
September 15, 2008, 04:22 PM
Savage Mark II BV $235 + BSA Target scope on sale < $300 package.

Shoots <0.5" @ 50yd all day. I have shot a 0.32" group.

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 04:25 PM
Sorry for the long post. I was just impressed with my new Savage, looked up reviews, and found this site. Nice threads. I'll stop back often and try not to be as long winded.

cinteal

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 04:43 PM
One thing (and only one thing) I failed to mention about the CZ452 Lux . . . it has a hogback buttstock and Schnobel forend . . . perfect for iron sights . . . PERFECT! It's not so good for optics, especially if you have >40mm objectives. You have to crank your neck a bit. I'm repeating and have experienced what Eric Brooks and Fuzzy talk about on their sites. The other side to this is that the wonderful tangent sight, for which I bought the rifle, has to be removed for big diameter scopes especially over 12 inches. Forgive me that I'm not quoting the first poster, but there really is no better iron sight system available. For optic donned CZ, try the Americans, Satin Nickel, Silhouette, or Varmint.

If you like iron sights, the CZ452 Lux, Ultra, or training rifle . . . AND . . . they now make the Lux in 453 with the set trigger.

squirrel sniper
September 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
stupid question, but what kind of accuracy do you guys get out of those uber modified 10/22s? and how much did it cost to get it? Im thinkiing about building a tackdriving 10/22, and im tryin to figure out how much i need to save to do it.

Tarvis
September 15, 2008, 04:54 PM
Hand loads? Hand loads? Hand loads?
Wait, are we talking about rim or center fire?? Guess I could have read more than the thread title, but people in glass houses sink ships.

22-rimfire
September 15, 2008, 04:59 PM
Cinteal; great first post! I want to read your original post in one breath and it's hard. I can feel your passion. Where are you out of? We agree! I have to admit that I just love the high end 22 rifles. They are a work of art even if you don't shoot them often. Wish I had a Kimber, but it is low priority. I need to pay off my Savage Mark II Classic that I fell in love with at the store. Love at first sight. I want to get one of the H&K GSG-5's real bad.

Flyrodder
September 15, 2008, 05:23 PM
Last year I bought my CZ 452 American for $330(new) and a Tasco world class 4-16X For $90. I think I would try the Mueller APV if I did it again. A lot of people on this site like the Mueller all tho I haven't tried it. My CZ 452 is the most accurate 22 I have. Out of the box stock. The barrel is free floating factory. Flyrodder

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 05:23 PM
"I want to get one of the H&K GSG-5's real bad."

Thanks, rimfire . . . haven't heard of those before . . . now I've got another gun to look at.

I'm out of Little Rock, AR by way of LA . . . that's "Lower Arkansas". You?

I've gotten the rimfire bug again primarily due to folks shooting the cheaper rounds. The range where I shoot sees some pretty nice stuff and the guy I shoot with is a longtime member who knows everyone. We get to shoot each others' new finds. I don't know how many people wanted to fondle my Buckmark the first few times I brought it out. There's an H&K buff out there, maybe I'll get a chance at the GSG-5. If so, I'll post my thoughts.

I'll try and update a profile.

benzy2
September 15, 2008, 05:23 PM
There are a few ways to go. Personally I would skip the Ruger bolt rifles. They have the ability to shoot well but out of the box they tend to not have as nice of a trigger or barrel as others in the same price range. Some do but for the most part I haven't seen it near as consistently. They are a solid action, have great aftermarket barrels and triggers, but run up quite the bill to make them sing.

Marlin makes some real nice shooters though their triggers suck. No matter how much I worked on mine it was always not fun to shoot because of the trigger. An aftermarket one fixed that and it shoots very well.

Savage is one of those rifles that I would buy one of the base models but not the more expensive ones. The accutrigger is decent but not better than the CZ triggers or the aftermarket for the rest. The action, like the Marlin, is cheap. It feels more like a toy than Ruger, CZ or Remington options, though the base models are very well priced. To me a nice stock on a cheap action still feels like a cheap rifle. I can't justify the extra expense when a much nicer action can be had for the same money.

Remington has had some ups and downs of late. Their 504s had great triggers, great actions, but terrible barrels in .22lr. I personally would love one though it would have to be either rebarreled or it would have to be in 17hm2 since they didn't have the accuracy problems.

CZ has some really nice shooters. To me the CZ is the best value for the dollar. It is priced in line with the more expensive Savage rifles yet below the Remington and Ruger rifles. They seem to be as accurate as you can get for the price. When you look through many of the monthly competitions on rimfirecentral you will see that CZ is a top competitor in their price range. Annies tend to out shoot them and you will see a few Savages hold their own. In general though you have to spend a bit more money to shoot smaller groups than the CZ will do. I also love the 452 action. It is very well built, very solid, and had decent quality control at the factory. While a Savage may hold groups the same as a given CZ the quality of the build is worth the difference. My CZs feel like rifles my grandchildren's grandchildren will be using. The Savage feels like something I will be tossing away in a few years. The Savage may last just as long, but that tubular action with the pinned barrel doesn't have the feel. CZ triggers can cheaply and easily be made to compete with most anything this side of an Annie.

I have been converted to a CZ fan from both their rimfires and centerfires. I can't say a single negative about them other than I have to drive a little to get to a store that stocks them. For my money they are the best combo of quality and price. Savage and Marlin rifles can be had for less but to me the extra money is well spent to get a rifle I feel is built much better. The Annies/Weatherby is a far better rifle but for my use and ability it isn't something I would pay that much extra for. If it is to you great because they are truly amazing rifles.

The one thing that really needs to not be overlooked in rimfire is the ammo used. Cheap ammo often won't shoot dime sized groups at 50 yards in real world conditions. It just isn't consistent enough to hold the groups people often expect. Its like the difference shooting Wolf vs the best handloads. Wind drift is a big factor with the little .22lr as well and it is something a lot of people shooting fast centerfires forget. After a bit of break in the best thing you can do is buy as many different types of ammo you can find and see what shoots the best. I know it holds true as well in the centerfire world but it seems to be an even bigger deal in the picky rimfires.

Oh and when it comes to upgrading the 10/22 that is a money pit in and of itself. I spent way too much trying to get my 10/22 to shoot how I wanted. It shoots well but I wish I would have saved the money and left it stock. The 10/22 bug starts out as a new hammer, then goes to a new barrel, then a new stock, then the bolt being trued, pinned, etc, then to a top end barrel, a top end trigger pack, a BR stock, and, and, and, and it never ends. I got lucky that before I spent money on the second round of upgrading I got into a few nice bolt rifles and cut my investment early.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
You can handload a rimfire (in theory). You just have to make sure that you don't fire it first. Pull bullet, dump powder, insert your chosen load (powder type & amount), and re-seat a bullet. Dunno where you're gonna get heel-based bullets from though. I guess you could make your own. Or, you could try to re-seat the one you pulled, but I'd imagine it would be deformed. Possible though, is all I'm saying, to customize your charge anyway, if not your bullet. It's probably a really really bad idea. But I could see maybe possibly in .17 HMR for certain specialty applications. Not being heel-based, I'd guess you could TRY any old .172" bullet. Gotta wonder if these would fly straight from a .17 HMR:


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=260540

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 06:04 PM
the 10/22s can get expensive to upgrade. You can buy a nice factory gun with good resale value for less than you can upgrade the 10/22, which to some (not me) is still just a 10/22. However, it's what you like. And, once customized, 10/22s are bad boys. Some people like playing with them. Those were some good looking rifles posted earlier in this thread and I've seen similar guns do just what he claims.

Question is, do you want a bolt, pump, or auto. When I was thinkning about customizing my Ruger, Fajen Stocks ran around $200, the Volquatzen drop-in trigger group was $200, let's take the middle of the road in barrels and say $175. You're already $575 in and you haven't even purchased an optic worthy of the upgrades. And think of this . . . the only thing you have left from your original 10/22 is the aluminum receiver. Now I know that others can probably do it cheaper, that was my route. I put my scope on a new Buckmark and just shot the mess out of golf balls, cans, and shotgun shells with the Ruger . . . relieving stress and having fun . . . what you said in your first post.

If you do want the Customized Ruger, why not buy one already customized. I bet the previous poster with the cool pics can direct you. Still, in my personal opinion, bolts are inherently more accurate and can be purchased for considerably less than you will spend on 10/22 upgrades . . . And you've still got the 10/22 for "automatic" plinking fun.

benzy . . . my Marlin 925 22 WMR had only one action screw. I just couldn't get it to pattern. I finally countersunk a screwhole in the rear of the action where the receiver splits. Now I've 2 points where the action is secured to the stock. The accuracy improved dramatically but still aint what my CZ 452 FS in WMR is. What exactly did you do to help your Marlin . . . or is that an auto?

benzy2
September 15, 2008, 06:12 PM
My marlin is actually the 917V. I have bedded it and replaced the trigger with a Rifle Basix trigger. Those two together made it a real shooter. When the wind isn't blowing it will hold 1" at 100 yards. That little 17 blows around too much in the wind for me so it stays home on windy days. Over on RFC it seems a lot of people have done similar work and gotten good results from the heavy barreled Marlins. What ammo have you been using in 22 WMR? I would try all the different loads out and see if you can't find one that shoots better. Other than that I don't know. My groups went from 1" at 50 yards to .3-.5" after I bedded the stock. It was poorly fit and made a big difference. The trigger made shooting those groups much easier and more enjoyable. Bedding can often make a big difference in rimfires.

Damon555
September 15, 2008, 06:53 PM
Save yourself some grief and just cut to the chase.... Anschutz is the way to go. You don't need to do anything extra to the rifle. If you save a few more pennies you can get a 64 MPR. They are able to shoot great groups even with cheap ammo....Here is a typical 50 yard target

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/DSCF1971.jpg


And guess what? They shoot even better with target quality ammo....


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/DSCF2473.jpg

cinteal
September 15, 2008, 07:22 PM
I floated the barrel and smoothed the trigger (felt like it was full of sand). Also added the second action screw. The best ammo I've found is the Federal 30 grain gold dot hollow point. The light bullet seems to like the twist. I've tried others as well. Still, I'm talking 3 inch group at 100 before I added the action screw. It's about 1.5 now. This was sort of a hand-me-down. I'm just an aspiring gunsmith looking for information. Thank you for the reply.

NotSoFast
September 15, 2008, 08:27 PM
Savage Mark II with the Accu-Trigger, especially with the target barrel. I'm getting under an inch at 100 yards out of the box. I paid $249 for it plus dros and fees.

Olympus
September 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
Well I've thought about customizing the 10-22 that I already have. But it was the very first firearm I ever bought with my own money. I was probably 10 or 11 when I saved up the $200 or so and bought it. And it's not the cheap stocked version either. I bought the gray and green laminated stock with the stainless iron. It's a pretty little gun and I didn't really want to break it apart and put a new barrel and stock on it. It has quite a bit of sentimental value to me.

hksw
September 15, 2008, 09:17 PM
IMO

IMO, for the price range specified and straight out of the box precision (and build quality):

If you are shooting a lot off hand,

1. CZ 452/453 American or Varmint. The limited trigger adjustable 452 will shoot well but will usually have a creepy trigger which can be fixed for as low as $20. 453 is adjustable to your liking.

2. Browning new model T-Bolt Sporter or Target/Varmint. The wood stock models are much more beautiful than the composite.

If shooting off of a bench or from position,

1. CMP Kimber 82G (as noted above). Incredible bargain for the price.

jaholder1971
September 15, 2008, 09:20 PM
Kimber 82
Winchester 52
Anything starting with Anschutz
Savage Mk II FVT
H&R M12/5200

Floppy_D
September 15, 2008, 09:23 PM
I have a Stevens 62 that can put a 10 shot group on a quarter at 50yds... an egg at 100 yds. My better groups at 50 yds were 10 shots inside a nickel. This was from a sled with a 3x9 50mm scope.

CH47gunner
September 15, 2008, 09:42 PM
I'm actually kind of embarrased to show this one. It's a tack-driver tho.
I won't tell you how much and I wouldn't do it again but, I won't sell it, it's one of a kind.

Bruce

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/ch47gunner/P9010006.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/ch47gunner/P9010008.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/ch47gunner/P9010001.jpg

308sc
September 15, 2008, 09:49 PM
as stated before, the CMP Kimber .22 rifles would be the best for the money if you want just bench rest accuracy.

VARifleman
September 15, 2008, 09:58 PM
The CMP Kimbers or H&R Model 12s.

22-rimfire
September 15, 2008, 10:01 PM
Cinteal, I'm in East Tennessee. I have passed through Arkansas many times over the years.

Hope you are visiting Rimfire Central forums. If not, you'll like it.

Floppy_D
September 15, 2008, 10:51 PM
Wow, Ch47gunner, that's GOOD LOOKIN'!! I've kicked around a build like that... sure looks fun.

rangerruck
September 15, 2008, 11:18 PM
plenty. for cheapos, anything marlin new, or used, especially 7000, 2000, 880sq.
for more money, anything cz. savage btvs.
for more or lots of money,
cooper arms,
anschutz,
biathlon basic,
finnish lion.
oh yeah, Kimber and Thompson/center have to be on the list...

sarduy
September 15, 2008, 11:45 PM
another vote to

Savage Mark II

CH47gunner
September 15, 2008, 11:53 PM
Thanks Floppy_D,

This is what happens when you spend too much time hanging around RimfireCentral. If you want (or don't want) to know anything about .22's, that's the place to go.
My 10/22 has no Ruger parts left after about one year of modding it. Tho it still uses the Ruger magazines. Now she's too big & heavy for a field gun so she either shoots from a rest or stays at the range.

Facts about the Custom 10/22:
Volquartsen Superlite Reciever
Volquartsen Machined Bolt
Volquartsen TG2000 Trigger Group
Volquartsen Compensator
Volquartsen Bedding Kit
Fajen Target Stock
Green Mountain Match .920 Barrel

As I said, she's a tack-driver but, I wouldn't suggest doing this again.
My field .22 is a CZ452 Special/Trainer with a Simmons 3-9x32 scope. Nothing spectacular but, the CZ is a heck of a gun.

Bruce

benzy2
September 16, 2008, 12:06 AM
Really that many people suggesting the CMP Kimbers? Ive never seen them shoot that well. From personal experiences they wouldn't shoot 1 MOA at 50 yards. I'm pretty sure the reason the Government quit buying them was that they didn't meet the accuracy demands. Kimber is a great name but I've seen a lot more unhappy CMP 82G owners than happy. Maybe everyone at my range got lemons and the rest are great but I wouldn't spend that much money on one. For $600 I might as well just get an Annie.

RancidSumo
September 16, 2008, 12:16 AM
I don't have anything bad to say about my CZ 452 FS in 22WMR. When I do my part it will put them all under a dime at 25 with a crude rest over iron sights. Go for the CZ, you won't regret it.

plexreticle
September 16, 2008, 12:23 AM
Well I'd say around $600 or $650 I'd give for the absolute most accurate I could get with that money. What's your suggestions for those criteria?

One of the CMP Kimbers is a good deal in that price range. Anschutz 64 if you can find one should be about $500.

wheelsandlevers
September 16, 2008, 12:24 AM
These are from a use CZ American 452 I got for $275.

5 shots at 50 yards off a bench.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/1014248c729428866b.jpg

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/1014248c729432f4c1.jpg

I know I can do better with a better rest and a bit more ammo testing but for the money, the CZ is a winner.

plexreticle
September 16, 2008, 12:27 AM
These are from a use CZ American 452 I got for $275.

5 shots at 50 yards off a bench.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehost...729428866b.jpg

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehost...729432f4c1.jpg

I know I can do better with a better rest and a bit more ammo testing but for the money, the CZ is a winner.


Nice. I may look at one of these for my next toy.

IndianaBoy
September 16, 2008, 01:22 AM
We seem to be very fortunate to have so many choices for an excellent 22 rifle. Practically speaking, the savage would be ideal because it gives up nothing in accuracy until you start looking at anschutz. This will allow you to buy a better optic with the left over funds. It is hard to beat a CZ lux for iron sight shooting. And a green mountain barrel could really dress up your ruger. I prefer a bolt action for precision shooting so I would suggest the savage or a cz american.

IndianaBoy
September 16, 2008, 01:34 AM
I just read page 2 and want to give some of you a heads up. The gsg5 is NOT an HK firearm. It is a cosmetic copy of an mp5. They are made by a company which I believe is called german sport guns. I have not fired one, thus I am not commenting positively or negatively. But it is not manufactured by HK.

Dookie
September 16, 2008, 03:49 AM
Thanks Floppy_D,

This is what happens when you spend too much time hanging around RimfireCentral. If you want (or don't want) to know anything about .22's, that's the place to go.
My 10/22 has no Ruger parts left after about one year of modding it. Tho it still uses the Ruger magazines. Now she's too big & heavy for a field gun so she either shoots from a rest or stays at the range.

Facts about the Custom 10/22:
Volquartsen Superlite Reciever
Volquartsen Machined Bolt
Volquartsen TG2000 Trigger Group
Volquartsen Compensator
Volquartsen Bedding Kit
Fajen Target Stock
Green Mountain Match .920 Barrel

As I said, she's a tack-driver but, I wouldn't suggest doing this again. Technically you don't have a custom 10/22, you have a Volquartsen with a GM barrel and a Fajen stock, AND a stock 10/22 :)
Almost the same as mine.

Olympus
September 16, 2008, 09:46 AM
IndianaBoy made a point that I was just about to say myself. After giving this some thought, I don't know that I want my first real tackdriver to be at the very top end like Anschutz or Cooper. I think maybe that I should start towards the average range. Here's my thinking, I can go with either the Savage MKII or the CZ then spend a little extra on some good glass. I'm probably not going to be doing any off-hand shooting so I'd like to look into a custom stock and aftermarket heavy barrel. Just my thinking so far. I'm not planning on going to any competition shoots, but I would like to have a rifle that really turns heads at the range.

This is just my initial thinking...but thanks a ton for everybody that has posted. I've really learned a lot.

Smaug
September 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
I think the better question is: "Are there any 22 bolt actions that aren't tack-drivers?"

I've got a Ruger 77/22 in 22LR that will also put all shots on a dime at 50 yards. It is just a really nice gun. (and it is American-made too :scrutiny: )

Just for fun, I started shooting mine at 100 yards, and found that is more accurate than my 6mm Rem rifle, which is easily a 300 yd. rifle.

22-rimfire
September 16, 2008, 10:18 AM
The gsg5 is NOT an HK firearm.

Thanks. I didn't know that.

Olympus
September 16, 2008, 11:37 AM
Called a dealer friend for a price quote on a Savage MKII. I had him quote the BV model which is laminated and has the heavy barrel. Website says MSRP is $322. He said he could get it for $283 +tax.

First question is the BV an accurage model? Second question is the price he quoted me much of a deal or can I find a better price somewhere else? I ask because he's not a very close friend and he's gotten me good deals in the past and he's quoted me some really high numbers before too.

What about this idea? Would it be smarter to get the cheapest model MKII, with the synthetic, model F (MSRP $191) and go ahead and buy the custom stock and barrel that I'd plan on getting later on if I bought another model and just go ahead and get all the customization done at one time?

cinteal
September 16, 2008, 11:41 AM
You said that you wanted to turn heads at the range. Yeah, some of these tricked out guns will do that. However, people do notice how you shoot at the range and when they see tight groups, they turn their head to see what you're shooting. A lot of people on this site seem to know a lot about CZs. At my range, however, I'm one of the few that shoot them. I have a 452 Lux, 453 American, and 452 FS in 22 mag. 95% of the time someone comes up to me to ask about the rifles. Some of those guys have the really tricked out guns. They come ask me about them because on the same target board that they are shooting, I'm puttin up groups as good as or better than theirs . . . from a stock gun. When it's me and my buddies (one has 5 CZs, the other has 2), it's like we're celebrities.

Couple of things on Savage and CZ offerings. You said you wanted an aftermarket varmint barrel. Both comanys offer them stock; anything with a "V" in the Savage model designation and the Varmint in CZ. IN A BOLT 22, I've never understood why one would need a "Varmint Barrel". I guess you could load up 20 ten round mags and just shoot, shoot, shoot, but if you're going for groups you're methodically and inherently firing slowly. I've put probably 20,000 rounds through a standard barrelled Winchester Model 61. It still shoots the same as it always did - Dead On.

You also wanted a custom stock. CZ doesn't offer them but their stocks are Turkish walnut except in the Training Rifle and Ultra Lux and are pretty nice. They are traditional . . . "svelt". My Savage, the Mk II BVT, has a "custom stock" straight from the factory.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to get a really nice 22 these days, straight from the factory. FYI . . . My CZ American I bought new for $300 3 years ago. My Savage ($420 MSRP) I bought new for $349 a month ago. Both produce less than dime size groups at 50 yards. I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't seen aftermarket barrels for either . . . they don't need them.

But still, if you want the flashy customized gun . . . get it. My 300 Win Mag looks like something out of a sci-fi movie . . . love it.

Optics, Optics, Optics. Got to have money left over for good optics. However, because we're not talking about heavy recoil, don't forget about the cheapo stuff. I may get hammered for this but NCStar, Barska, Nikko, BSA, and Tasco . . . if they're clear, they'll probably work on a rimfire. Anything built for rimfire or with an adjustable objective. Even if they don't have AOs, they can still be adjusted for rimfire yardage. I like my newer Weavers and my Leupolds but I get the same groups from my Barska Excavator. It's not as nice, but still pretty cool.

cinteal
September 16, 2008, 11:47 AM
Oh, Talo makes custom stocks for Savage. The Mako is Savage's 22 Talo. It's radical. I realy thought about buying it instead of the BVT.

Last time I looked on GunBroker.com, several Talos were offered. You can also get an idea of what a good price is from these auctions. I can usually beat them or equal them locally, but I have a buddies with FFLs.

Olympus
September 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
cinteal...

Thanks for the informative post. I totally see what you're getting at. When I said I wanted to turn heads at the range, I didn't mean that I wanted this totally wicked looking custom stock. Most of my larger bore rifles are fancy walnut and they look great. But I don't know if you'd seen the pics I put on here of my custom Mauser, but it is the first gun I've had that I tried something really different. And it's not even that crazy, it's a laminated stock called Tigerwood from Richards. I'm kind of in a laminated phase right now and thought I would like to try one on this .22 whatever I get. I know most manufacturers have laminated stocks as offerings. But they're kind of in boring colors in my opinion. At least boring in regards to the fact that you see them alot. My big thing is I want something that looks totally different. I don't want the crazy wild purples, pinks, and yellows or anything like that. I just want something with some color that you don't see too often. As for the barrel, I've seen some places that offer custom barrels for the Savage at least. Personally, I like the looks of a silver barrel in a blued action, like some of the Coopers that I've seen. That was my thinking on the barrel part.

I've seen the Mako and that's a lot more radical than I'm wanting to go.

CH47gunner
September 16, 2008, 12:20 PM
Sounds as tho you're sold on either the Savage or the CZ.
So the choice would be between the Savage Mark II-BV or the CZ452 Varmint, both of which have the Bull/Varmint barrels. And both of which are very fine choices.
Good, I personally think you'll find that the bolt guns are much more fun & challenging than the semi's.

Bruce

cinteal
September 16, 2008, 12:22 PM
Yeah, the Mako was a bit much for me, too. I also agree on the boring/ugly colors offered on most laminated stock stocks. I was probably in your mindset when I bought this Savage AND I bought it off of gunbroker. The reason, the stock offered on this particular gun had multiple color laminate. Not the pinks, fluorescent blue, but a fairly natural red, green, tan, and black . . . I think. I'm not looking at the gun right now and I've slept since I last fondled it.

The standard on the Savage laminates seems to be reddish tan on a darker reddish tan. Not ugly but not impressive. Don't know why mine was different . . . but it sold me on this particular gun.

I know Remington custom makes guns fairly reasonably. My 257 Roberts is a custom Remington 700. I think Savage has a custom shop, as well - not for sure. I know they make stainless barrels and blued actions and Vice Versa. They just don't offer them mixed on standard guns. Worth a phone call if you're interested in Savage. I can say with confidence that Savage barrels do not need to be replaced with "better" aftermarkets. All but one of my 22s can outshoot my abilities, and I'm cetainly not a bad shot.

One comment on which I haven't commented . . . Savage actions do feel Kinda cheap . . . nothing like CZ. However, the results say they're not cheap . . .and it's a 22. You don't need a Rem 700 action for a 22.

Good luck.

Olympus
September 16, 2008, 12:30 PM
Yeah I think I'm pretty much focused on either the Savage or the CZ. I've found a lot of great reviews about each. I'm just going to have to keep my eye open for a CZ because my dealer friend said he couldn't get any of the 453s. And the barrel deal isn't really that important to me. As long as the factory barrel is as good as people say then I can overlook that part. But I do want to go with a custom laminate stock. I like the style of the Cooper BVT with the wide beavertail forend. I'll have to keep my eye open for some custom stock companies. The Rimfire Central forum has some good pictures on there so I might peruse through there.

hksw
September 16, 2008, 12:56 PM
Really that many people suggesting the CMP Kimbers? Ive never seen them shoot that well. From personal experiences they wouldn't shoot 1 MOA at 50 yards. I'm pretty sure the reason the Government quit buying them was that they didn't meet the accuracy demands. Kimber is a great name but I've seen a lot more unhappy CMP 82G owners than happy. Maybe everyone at my range got lemons and the rest are great but I wouldn't spend that much money on one. For $600 I might as well just get an Annie.

Here is the ctriteria the government applied to the Kimber (and I'm sure all of the other .22 manufacturers):
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j26/villan535/Kimber8203.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j26/villan535/Kimber8202.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j26/villan535/Kimber8201.jpg

Not high end benchrest precise but then again, I don't think the government had benchrest in mind for the guns.

Here are some 10 and 15 round groups I shot at 50 yds prone with my iron sighted Kimber (Anschütz 9733 up front, 9550 at the rear (at the time), OE Kimber sight platforms, RWS R50). Only mod to the Kimber was adjuting the trigger down to about 10 ounces. For me, this is pretty good.

IndianaBoy
September 16, 2008, 04:27 PM
Olympus you won't need an aftermarket barrel for a Savage or CZ bolt gun to shoot. All the CZ bores I have encountered had a nicely lapped internal finish. I will say that CZ bores are somewhat tighter than standard 22 rifles. Do a search on rimfirecentral for tight bore cz and you will see what I mean. This is not a detriment.

Rebarreling a CZ is unnecessary, but also very difficult. They barrels are threaded into the receiver and they are extremely tight. To remove them, a relief cut almost always has to be made in the barrel. So removing a barrel will destroy it.

Savage rifles show excellent accuracy with the factory barrels as well.

I don't know where to point you for a good aftermarket stock but I'm sure they are out there for the Savage.

Some people don't like the stock CZ triggers. My Lux came from the factory with an excellent trigger, light and crisp. It does have some overtravel but it doesn't bother me. The Savage accutrigger is excellent. Don't skimp on glass if you want to shoot itty bitty groups. I am not very knowledgeable about scopes so I will leave that discussion to someone else. I do know that nobody complains about Leupold.

CH47gunner
September 16, 2008, 06:10 PM
+1 IndianaBoy -

I have to use a .17 cleaning rod, for my CZ452, 'cause the bore is so tight. This is not unusual either.

The Savage barrel is pinned, making it near impossible to change also. Either you get a good one or you don't.

Sharp Shooter Supply is probably the best aftermarket place for anything Savage. Including Stocks & triggers for Savage rimfires.
Link - http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/

For more aftermarket stocks, you might try Boyds or Richards.

Good luck,

Bruce

ps.

Olympus -

I'm gonna attach a pic of my 93R17-BV so you can see what the laminated BV stock looks like. Mine's a .17HMR but, it's the same stock as the Mark II.
I like it.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/ch47gunner/P8070017.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/ch47gunner/P8070020.jpg

plinky
September 16, 2008, 06:21 PM
It seems there are plenty of accurate .22LRs out there. I have recent editions of the Savage Mk II FVT and CZ 452 Lux. The Savage has been shot much more and it's best groups are a little better but it is less consistant. Both need shot a lot more though before they are broke in.

The CZ does look and feel more like a grown up rifle if that matters. A real stand out feature to me is the smoothness of feeding in the CZ. You really can't tell if it's loaded or not. Amazingly smooth. I don't know if this is always true. The Savage feeds rather roughly and it seems that this is common. It never really jams up though. The Accutrigger is tunable to be very good.

The CZ costs more but I'd say either way you're getting a good value. Handle every rifle you are condidering and shoot them if possible.

hksw
September 16, 2008, 07:51 PM
Cripes, forgot the photo.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j26/villan535/Kimber1007.jpg

I'm guessing medium OK for someone shooting position for only a year (when the targets were shot). But, the group size is mostly the shooter (me) and not the gun which shoots much smaller.

gvnwst
September 16, 2008, 08:08 PM
I have a $100 savage MKII (base model) with a $50 bushnell scope. i shoot single holes at 50, at 25 i shoot flys and literally one hole groups. at 100, 2 in groups are no problem. a higher end model should do anything you want. I like my savages.

Rembrandt
September 16, 2008, 08:10 PM
The head of a tack is about 1/4"......what distance you place it might define which rifle can do the job. Any number of rifles are capable at 25 or 50 yards.......that number dwindles at 100 yards.

There is only one rifle by which "all .22 bolt actions" have been measured against for nearly 90 years, the Winchester model 52. Herbert Houze aptly described it as Perfection in Design in his book on 52's. I've never heard of a bad shooting 52.....ever.

Anshutz, Kimber, and Cooper would also fall into the elite 100 yard club. Money buys accuracy....if you want a tack driver spend the bucks and get a good one.

52's came in several configurations, Sporters and target versions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/52/52collection.jpg

Olympus
September 16, 2008, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the pictures of your BV! I did an image search on Google for pictures of the BV and found quite a few. Stock looks good and I wouldn't mind it, however, I have a Remington 700 VLS that is the exact same color. That's another reason why I'm planning on doing a custom stock. I like the color but it's just kind of average for me. I saved the Sharp Shooter Supply website to my favorites so I'll peruse there for some things.

I used a Richards for my Mauser conversion and I am less than impressed with their company. They have absolutely horrible customer service. 75% of the time that you call the number (during business hours) nobody answers the phone. It's about 50/50 on whether or not they call you back if you leave a message. It took almost 11 weeks for them to ship me my stock. And when they did ship it, they shipped me someone else's stock as well. It even had the other guy's invoice in the package with a competely different state. I don't recommend them to anyone unless they're looking for headaches.

Geno
September 29, 2008, 10:02 AM
Rembrandt:

Do the Winchester Model 52s have a threaded barrel-to-receiver, or are the barrels pressed and pinned to the receiver? I saw a model 52 at a local gun store, and while I have heard that they are excellent rifles, the dealer was not able to advise as to the rifle's construction.

Doc2005

DPStx
September 29, 2008, 02:53 PM
All variants of the 52 had threaded barrel/receiver interfaces, per engineering drawings in the Houze book.

DPS

Geno
September 29, 2008, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the Info DPS.

Wow, how cool! The Model 52 that I found was listed at $750.00, and was recently reblued. I have no idea of the value of a 1952 model 52. It was nice, and I especially liked the locking system of it. To call it a sturdy barreled action is an understatement. The barreled action made even my Kimber Gov't Model 82 look light a lightweight.

DPStx
September 29, 2008, 06:29 PM
My 52C match rifle impressed me so much, I wouldn't settle for any less than a 52 for a sporting rifle, so I sold my Marlin 781 and went looking. found an already modified very early 52 on Auctionarms that I got for $225. I replaced the stock and did alot of modifications to the bolt and such, but it still has the all the original receiver, bolt and barrel (shortened to 22") Shoots 3/8" groups at 100yds with top notch ammo. Love the 52!!

DPS

SpeedAKL
September 29, 2008, 09:41 PM
I have a Savage Mk.II BV. Laminated stock, heavy barrel, Accu-Trigger, and Simmons 3-9x scope out the door for $220 at a sale at Dicks. Incredible accurate, and very fun too!

Olympus
November 2, 2008, 09:25 AM
I'm bringing this thread back to life. I still have yet to make my decision. I was originally going to go with the CZ varmint and still might. But I've decided to pool a little of my cash so my budget has grown. I've got roughly $1000 that I can spend on this project now. But as I've been looking, I've noticed there is a HUGE gap in the pricing. You can get a CZ for around $350 then it jumps up to Annie's and Coopers for well over $1000! I can't find any middle ground there. I can't seem to find anything in like the $600 or $700 range. What's up with that? Am I passing over something that I just haven't discovered yet?

Highland Ranger
November 2, 2008, 09:31 AM
Great thread and posts - for other opinions, there is a forum dedicated to rimfires - - http://www.rimfirecentral.com/

Olympus
November 2, 2008, 09:50 AM
I'm already on there too!

hksw
November 2, 2008, 10:26 AM
Since you now have more funding, the Anschütz 64 MPR (as mentioned above) or new 64 SBR. (I'm guessing you will be shooting off of a bench as these guns are relatively heavy and bulky for carrying around.) They are still well below $1K.

Click on Anschütz then Anschütz Target Rifles.
https://www.championshooters.com/index-ssl.html

flyboy1788
November 2, 2008, 10:39 AM
i bought a marlin .22 bolt gun that will shoot 1/2 in groups a 50 yards all day

onebigelf
November 2, 2008, 10:46 AM
I've shot a 10/22 (highly customized) that could do 1/2" at 50 yds. My Savage bolt (MK2) will do it as will any number of other MK2's I've shot. So will my girlfriend's cheap $100 surplus Romanian training rifle!

John

Brad Clodfelter
November 2, 2008, 06:26 PM
I don't come around here that often, but I seen this thread and I'll add my opinion for what it's worth.

It's just simply hard to out shoot a good shooting Suhl 150 barreled action whether it being in the original factory stock or dropped in a benchrest stock like the one I bought. The Suhl 150 and Suhl 150-1 guns are tack drivers. Also, the Suhl triggers can go down to 2oz, and you don't have to have trigger work done or after market triggers installed.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/23790Suhl_150.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0285_Small_.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0302_Small_.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/23790Suhl_Groups_Custom_.jpg

Here's a few at 25yds where wind doesn't play as much of a factor and you can really see the accuarcy potential of a rimfire barrel. That first group measured .021ctc. It was 21 thousandths from being perfect and all through the exact same hole.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0239_Small_.JPG

I think I over measured this one, but it's still a good one.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790Suhl_150_5_Shot_25Yds_006_Custom_.jpg

Olympus
November 2, 2008, 09:23 PM
Never heard of a Suhl but I'll do some checking.

I'm really hurting here on what to do. I kills me to be so torn between things. I can't seem to make a decision on which one to go with. Should I go the cheaper route and do the CZ 452 Varmint or go all out?

And even if I go all out, I can't decide which ones I like the most. I'd rather have a varmint type with a heavy barrel and beavertail forend. I like the Finnfire varmint but they're hard to find and I haven't heard much of it's accuracy. I like the Annie 64 mpr but I'm just not crazy about the stock. I don't really know...I'm so dang confused!:banghead:

Brad Clodfelter
November 2, 2008, 09:48 PM
Olympus,

If your wanting a 22lr soley for target shooting without having to do anything else to the gun like adding another barrel or trigger, it's just plain put hard to beat a Suhl. The Win 52D's and Rem 40X's are great shooting 22's. But they don't have the great trigger a Suhl does. A Suhl 150 or 150-1 which was the later model Suhl has no safety just so you know. They don't make Suhls anymore, so parts can be hard to come by. But I have yet had a part on my Suhl go bad. The gun I have was made in Nov of 1974, so I don't think you will have to worry too much about parts.

The Suhl 150 was an East German gun and had a date of origin from my sources as Dec 1973. I don't know when they quit making the Suhl 150, but my guess would be around mid 80's. The Suhl 150-1 came out after the Suhl 150. They made these until 1991 from my sources. The Suhl 150-1 shoots from what I have been told as good as the first version Suhl 150 models. They also have the same type factory trigger which can be adjusted down to 2oz as well I believe.

Here's a refinished Suhl 150-1 model on gunbroker that is priced pretty good. I'll bet money it will shoot holes. All Suhls are said to shoot exceptional unless someone messed the barrel up from improper cleaning.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114677790

Brad Clodfelter
November 2, 2008, 09:53 PM
Another good choice would be an older Anschutz modle 54 like a 1411 model. They had killer triggers as well, and they shot real well. Check on gun broker or gunsamerica and you should be able to locate one. Thad Scott also sells the annies. www.thadscott.com

I would want one in very good shape. Look to spend about $800 for a good one.

Brad Clodfelter
November 2, 2008, 09:59 PM
Here's a picture of an Anschutz 1411 model to give you a better idea of what type of rifle you want and the condition to look for. This one was for sell at RFC for $650, but I believe it has found a new buyer. It was priced right for the condition it was in. A very good price really.

Brad Clodfelter
November 2, 2008, 11:45 PM
Rembrandt mentioned the Win 52 above and shooting tacks at 100yd with a rimfire. He's right about the Win 52's being great shooters. They were definatley in the top 5 best factory rimfires ever made. I never shot a 52, but I have seen some of the groups from the guys that own them. They shoot real well. Speaking of hitting a tack at 100yds, here's a 5 shot group I shot on a near calm day without any windflags to boot. I think the Suhl will definately hit a tack at 100yd on calme days. This group Joe Haller measured at .375ctc. I only shot the Suhl at 100yds on two different occasions, but I think I could have improved on this one with more opportunities. The dime will very easily cover all 5 shots.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/IMGP0256_Small_Custom_.JPG

Here's another pretty good one that a dime will cover as well.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0249_Small_.JPG

ifit
November 3, 2008, 03:10 AM
with all the .22 rifles to choose from, i decided on the cz452fs. heres a pic, and range results

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/452008.jpg

from the factory

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/452fs003.jpg

frist time at the range, my best 5 shot group top right. with a rest and scope

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/452fs001.jpg

mgkdrgn
November 3, 2008, 07:39 AM
If you don't mind spending a whole lot less money ($175) ... I do believe the Mossberg M44US that the CMP is selling could take a run at this "tack driver" title. I've put about 100 rounds through mine using just the peep sights and am VERY pleased with the results.

I can't give it a true test as my visual acuity isn't what it use to be (ie, I can't even -see- the target at 100 yards, much less hit it!), but it's being tapped for a scope right now, and THEN we'll see! Even with my eyesight, I was getting groups at 50 yards about 1 - 1.5 inches across on that "fuzzy dot" I could see out there.

Olympus
November 3, 2008, 10:41 AM
Well a small hurdle for me is the fact that I've never used an online gun auction site. There's just something about not being able to see and handle something until after it's already mine makes me a little nervous, especially on used guns. I can't remember if I made the comment here or on rimfire, but my definition of 95% condition may not necessarily be someone else's. And as a general rule, I don't buy used firearms anyway. I've only ever bought one used gun and it was a pistol from a friend of mine so I knew how it had been handled and taken care of.

So for me, finding a dealer than can get me an Annie is pretty difficult. And I know they're great shooters, but they just look like they use cheap wood for their stocks. I'm not impressed with their looks at all. But what about the Weatherby Mark XXIIs? I've read that they use Annie actions and they have the same quality stocks as you can expect from Weatherby. I just haven't heard anyone talking about their accuracy....whether good or so-so.

I basically keep going back and forth and can't seem to decide on one model. I keep falling back to the CZ 452 varmint though. I've looked at a lot of pictures of them and some of them have really pretty wood and I haven't heard a single complaint about their accuracy. And since it's cheaper than an Annie then I could get the aftermarket trigger kits and have it all tuned for me. I don't know....just thinking out loud I guess.

skinewmexico
November 3, 2008, 02:28 PM
I don't know about 22s, but I made some guys with thousand dollar 10/22s mad by outshooting them with my $165 Savage FV93R17.

Olympus
November 3, 2008, 08:55 PM
I looked at the Savages as well...the first time in my life I seriously debated owning one! I knew as soon as I picked it up that it wasn't for me. Felt a little too light and the action felt cheap compared to the CZ I handled. I like the fact that you can get some custom stocks for the Savages easier than the CZs, but other than that, no other sellings points for the Savage.

alexanderplatz
November 3, 2008, 09:09 PM
I'm totally thrilled with my CZ 452, which I have scoped. I couldn't shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards with anything, but I enjoy shooting at clay pigeons (they're biodegradable -- it's awesome) at 125 yards. With the 452 I can keep breaking up the shards into smaller and smaller bits. I will probably get a 452 American and transfer the scope to that, and go back to shooting the 452 with its iron sights.

Olympus
November 4, 2008, 10:35 AM
I've been thinking about which model to get, the 452 or 453. I've read the 453 varmint comes with a floated barrel, but the 452 has a barrel lug so it isn't floated.

So maybe someone can answer this: How important is it to the accuracy on the CZ to have the floated barrel? Is it possible to float the barrel on the 452?

I know the 453 is more expensive but I don't mind the buy the 452 and buy the Brooks kit. I'd rather have a nice trigger set to about 10 to 12 ounces. I've read that trying to get the 453 trigger that light will make the bolt come out while cocking.

MrBorland
November 4, 2008, 12:02 PM
I know the 453 is more expensive but I don't mind the buy the 452 and buy the Brooks kit. I'd rather have a nice trigger set to about 10 to 12 ounces.

I haven't read all the replies in this thread, so I don't know if this has been covered yet, but I'll offer a word of caution about the Brooks kit:

I found the Brooks kit to be a terrific little kit, but IMO it has it's limits and shouldn't be used to attempt to turn the factory trigger into some kind of competition bench trigger. If you go crazy with it to get as light and creep-free trigger as possible, you may very well end up with an unsafe trigger.

The kit utilizes shims and springs that are installed in different combinations to get the trigger quality you're looking for. The problem is that if you go overboard, you can, without knowing it, take too much creep out, such that the sear is engaged by mere microns. Especially when combined with a light trigger, there's very little holding the sear. Even if it passes an initial bump safety test, it may finally let go when you least expect it.

No matter to what pull weight you adjust the trigger, safety bump test before you proceed, and repeat the test at regular intervals. You'll probably find more info on this at rimfirecentral.com.

My recommendation is to be conservative with the Brooks kit; but if you do make your 452 trigger this light with it, consider it a bench-only rifle and chamber a round only after you've got your target in your sights.

rhoggman
November 4, 2008, 01:49 PM
I guess you could go out and spend all kinds of cash on all kinds of rifles, but for $200 you can buy a winchester wildcat (bolt action) that has a shaved down target barrell.

I put a bushnell scope on mine and can knock the eye out of a squirell at 50yds.

Aguilla supermaximum hypervelocity (1750fps) 22lr ammo

I could have paid much more money for something else, but I can't remember needing to fire off another shot immeadiatly because I don't miss with it.

Also it is a nice looking little gun.

pbhome71
November 4, 2008, 01:54 PM
Olympus,

If you decide to buy CZ, try to shoot it first before you upgrade anything. My 452 training has been great. I lighten the trigger-pull by only adjusting it and it is good enough for me. I like mine at about 4 lb.

If you decided later that you need a better trigger, you can get Timney trigger for 452.

There are also a couple of folks who make replacement stocks for CZ. If you take a look at rimfirecentral.com, you can find sources for the replacement stock.

Good Luck,

-Pat

gotime242
November 4, 2008, 02:21 PM
I bought a marlin 7000 (bull barrel) 5 years ago, and it still shoots almost through one hole consistently at 50 yards with jsut mini-mags. With a 6.5-20x50mm scope. I shot it at 100 yards recently but the ammo accuracy just wasnt there. I need to try again with some sub-sonics.

30Cal
November 4, 2008, 03:28 PM
Got this from the CMP for a pretty good price.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/2317732782_2234bc18ae.jpg

Olympus
November 4, 2008, 06:54 PM
Olympus,

If you decide to buy CZ, try to shoot it first before you upgrade anything. My 452 training has been great. I lighten the trigger-pull by only adjusting it and it is good enough for me. I like mine at about 4 lb.

If you decided later that you need a better trigger, you can get Timney trigger for 452.

There are also a couple of folks who make replacement stocks for CZ. If you take a look at rimfirecentral.com, you can find sources for the replacement stock.

Good Luck,

-Pat

I wish that was an option. I don't know anyone that has a 452 or 453 that I could shoot. I wish I could shoot one though.

I like my triggers to be a lot lighter than 4 pounds too. I have a Timney on my custom .308 and it's set at 22 oz. I'd like to have the CZ set to a little lighter than that.

And I've been on rimfire and I can't seem to find any aftermarket stocks. I'd really like to find a maple stock too.

Schleprok62
November 5, 2008, 07:19 AM
Remington Model Five is easily on par with the CZ 452... for about $100 less... but that could be because it's made in the same part of the world...

scythefwd
November 9, 2008, 06:08 PM
My old mans anschutz has taken a gold medal. That was before it came into my family and my uncle, the man that bought it, knew the man who took the medal with it.

My grandfathers winchester 52 really is sub moa in the right hands at 100y.

My fathers mossberg 144 is similar to the winchester.

My mossberg 44 is a little more open and only does about 1.5 moa.

All groups are at 100y. All rifles have redfield sights. The anschutz has internationals on it, the others have olympics on them.

P.B.Walsh
April 14, 2009, 11:50 PM
Not to sure about groups, but I've got about a "3rd or 2nd generation" Remington 34, and she's a real price of art, just wish I could get a picture up, because it's deadly accurate, espesially considering it was made between 1932-1935, serial no. 29871, so probaly made in 1933 I suppose.
Look at Remingtons firearms library. It's a beauty, aulthough the picture last time I checked, discredits the rifle.

Oh yea, I'm really wanting one of these rifles posted here for a .22 that I don't have to sweat over it if it bumps agains a pillow, my '34 is my baby:)

oklahoma caveman
April 15, 2009, 12:11 AM
ok so... i havent read this entire thread but, look around and find yourself a nice used remington tagetmaster single shot with a heck of a long barrel:D. i have no idea how long the barrel is on mine but id guess 28". that gun is the most accurate gun i own

CZguy
April 15, 2009, 02:10 AM
Not to sure about groups, but I've got about a "3rd or 2nd generation" Remington 34, and she's a real price of art, just wish I could get a picture up, because it's deadly accurate, espesially considering it was made between 1932-1935, serial no. 29871, so probaly made in 1933 I suppose.
Look at Remingtons firearms library. It's a beauty, aulthough the picture last time I checked, discredits the rifle.

Oh yea, I'm really wanting one of these rifles posted here for a .22 that I don't have to sweat over it if it bumps agains a pillow, my '34 is my baby

Here ya go. Remington model 34 is the top rifle and a BRNO #1 Sporter is the lower one.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/DSC0190800000.jpg

hinton03
April 15, 2009, 03:34 AM
I have a 77/22 heavy barrel and it can out shoot me.

Dahm
April 18, 2009, 12:09 PM
I'm pretty much in the same boat right now as everyone else who is debating between a CZ 452 Varmint or Savage MKII BV (I'm into the heavy barrels, but an American and Non-V Savage would be the same comparison).

I've read the good and bad of both, and it really seems like it comes down to cost. I haven't been able to handle either yet, but it seems like the CZ's action is better. Many people on have commented on the Savage's cheap feel in the action.

From what I can tell, it all comes down to where you buy from to get the best deal. Id like to save as much money as I can, and I'd ultimately like to pick up a CZ. However, if I can't find one for the right price, I'll end up getting a Savage.

My plan is to get a harris bipod and a Mueller APV 4.5-14 (or possibly a Bushnell Banner 4-16.. haven't decided yet), and do some competition shooting. That is why the CZ is ultimately a more tasteful option.

If anyone else has any more input that might truly sway me 100% over to the CZ side of life AND/OR drop some hints as where would be the right place to buy a CZ at a good price, it would be most appreciated by me and anyone else in the similar boat.

CZguy
April 18, 2009, 12:20 PM
The best place in the US to buy CZ's is Whittaker guns. If you can't go there, look up the price on their website and then add approximately thirty to fifty dollars to that, and you'll have your local price.



http://www.whittakerguns.com/

Dahm
April 18, 2009, 12:42 PM
Ah thank you. I'll have to call them and see what kind of price they can hook me up with.

JTW Jr.
April 18, 2009, 03:28 PM
My plan is to get a harris bipod and a Mueller APV 4.5-14 (or possibly a Bushnell Banner 4-16.. haven't decided yet), and do some competition shooting. That is why the CZ is ultimately a more tasteful option.

For competition , you would probably be better suited with CZ , I am enjoying the heck out of my GVXP , shown with Tasco , but was replaced with a Mueller APV , which really allows me make accurate hits with.

http://members.cox.net/subguns-lv/MarkII%20GVXP.jpg

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
April 18, 2009, 03:35 PM
Did not read all the posts but agree with most of the rifles suggestions. Just as important though, is the ammunition. 22 rimfires can be picky but a little patience in finding the right ammo will reap satisfying rewards for you.

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