What constitutes a 'hot' load?


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NavajoNPaleFace
September 15, 2008, 04:24 PM
Got to thinking of a conversation I had the other day with an acquantance who said he likes a "BIG" bang out his .357s and .44mags.

He had a guy reload some, admittedly, hot loads for him and I asked him what the load was.

He didn't know...trusted the reloader (bad,bad STUPID move) but that, at any rate, he likes the hot loads that were loaded for him.

My question is: what constitutes a hot load? Is it 10% over published max....20%....I dunno.

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Eric F
September 15, 2008, 04:32 PM
Anything that is over sammi limmits but still not showing signs of being over pressure would be a good book answer, More realistically anything over posted "factory" standard speeds.

For example 38 super(only because I know this one) for a 130 gr fmj most factory stuff is about 950-1100 fps agulia however is hot burnning the barrel up at 1450 fps.

Sunray
September 15, 2008, 05:00 PM
"...Is it 10% over published max..." That's just dangerous. It has nothing to do with being over SAAMI limits. Hot loads have to do with high velocity and the subsequent pressure for the bullet weight, not being over max.
There are lots of perfectly safe hot loads in loading manuals. Mind you, just because a load is hot doesn't mean it'll be accurate out of your firearm.

scrat
September 15, 2008, 05:07 PM
useless unless you like big bangs. tell him to shoot a .22lr without ear plugs that should do. here is why

When you reload you reload for the gun. Every gun likes a certain bullet with a certain load.. This is what you need to find out. So a reloader will start off light. Shoot a few rounds bench rest. mark the results then go a little hotter. More powder but in the spectrum. do the same. keep doing this until you find the spot where your accuracy is very very good. going max out does not give you the best accuracy. here is another way of looking at it. In a race car the engine will perform best up to a certain rpm. Up to that certain rpm the horsepower is rising. AFter that peak you can still kick out rpms however the horsepower will start to drop. So is the same for shooting. After that then you need to try a different powder or a different bullet and keep repeating. Recording your results. But shooting at max loads or over does not give you accuracy. just big bang. THen like i said. you might as well shoot a 22lr without ear plugs.

ranger335v
September 15, 2008, 05:47 PM
"My question is: what constitutes a hot load? Is it 10% over published max....20%....I dunno."

Well, 37 gr. of Bullseye under a 200 gr. SWC in .45 ACP would more than qualify, but don't be foolish enough to try it. Nor should anyone attempt to hot-rod ANY handgun cartridge, there is simply too little to gain and a great deal to lose.

We don't get as many warning signs with a handgun as we do with rifles so overload KABOOMS often fall into the SURPRISE! catagory.

zxcvbob
September 15, 2008, 05:56 PM
useless unless you like big bangs. tell him to shoot a .22lr without ear plugs that should do

Is that why you shoot a Walker?

(To the original poster: just use W296 or H-110 powder with published load data and magnum primers. You can substitute small rifle primers in the .357 with these powders if you don't have small pistol magnums, but don't substitute regular pistol primers. HTH.)

scrat
September 15, 2008, 06:03 PM
Is that why you shoot a Walker?

The walker i have found the loads to be very accurate with 45 grains of black. But thats a different type of powder. It will hold up to 57 grains. i could never get any accuracy with that type of load. im actually trying to tayler down. i have been shooting 45 colt through it. using 35 grains of black. Accuracy so so. i just recieved my shipment of 45 schofield. so next im going to be trying that. Then for the 45 colt i am thinking of going tripple 777. Hopefuly this will improve my accuracy. As for shooting big loads once in a while is fine. But im not shooting over sammi or max loads. The walker was designed to shoot 60 grains of black. Most i have ever shot was 55-57 grains. Then i dont do that anymore as i find it does more harm than any good. especially on the wedge

WNTFW
September 15, 2008, 06:20 PM
No offense to NavajoPaleFace, he is not the guy loading hot.

Is this a true statement?
"When increasing powder charges at some point the pressure begins to increase way more than the velocity."
I'm sure I've read something to that effect in more than one reloading manual. A guy that I know locally that likes to load to the upper limit seems to disregard this type of thing.
I just don't need to reload hot at this point in my reloading. Maybe I'm just too lazy to keep my loads on some ragged edge. Diminishing returns is no fun.

rcmodel
September 15, 2008, 06:33 PM
If you have to beat the empties out of a revolver, it is a hot load!

Too hot, in fact!

It will be:
Bad for accuracy.
Bad for the gun.
Bad for the shooters shooting habits,
and could eventually be

Bad for his health as well.

rcmodel

Eric F
September 15, 2008, 06:45 PM
not being over max not being over what? Max pressure? Oh like SAAMI? every one who knows anything about SAAMI knows that SAAMI goes under what the case can take. Now wait you ask why? Because of liability. I have loaded almost everything I shoot to go over the SAAMI limit some by 15% with no signs of being over pressure at all.

NOW I WILL NOT RECOMEND DOING THIS BECAUSE OF LIABILITY!!!!

and again I say

More realistically anything over posted "factory" standard speeds.

Floppy_D
September 15, 2008, 06:55 PM
Nearing max published data is a hot load. Most factory loads are a safe distance from max. I won't exceed published data.

If the goal is accuracy, work up a load. If the goal is "bang," approach max data with caution. I wouldn't exceed it.

scrat
September 15, 2008, 07:05 PM
not being over what? Max pressure? Oh like SAAMI? every one who knows anything about SAAMI knows that SAAMI goes under what the case can take. Now wait you ask why? Because of liability. I have loaded almost everything I shoot to go over the SAAMI limit some by 15% with no signs of being over pressure at all.

This is true. we talked about this a long time ago. If you look at the load manuals from lets say20-30 years ago. The load data has changed. The max loads are a lot less than what they used to be. Believe we all agreed it was due to liability. Today a max published load may not be as radical as a load data from 1970. Going over a max load from that data could be dangerous.


Nope im not recomending going over either

rcmodel
September 15, 2008, 07:08 PM
Today a max published load may not be as radical as a load data from 1970.Nobody made a 11 oz scandium .357, or a 13 oz 9mm poly-frame pistol in 1970 either.

rcmodel

DWARREN123
September 15, 2008, 08:23 PM
For me the top 5% of published data, anything over is a overload.

plinky
September 15, 2008, 10:25 PM
The term "hot load" is not very specific. It will mean something different to most people. So to request and shoot "hot loads" without knowing what they are is kinda foolhardy. I suppose you could say that a hot load will tend toward the upper end of the performance scale. No guarantee of that though.

(To the original poster: just use W296 or H-110 powder with published load data and magnum primers. You can substitute small rifle primers in the .357 with these powders if you don't have small pistol magnums, but don't substitute regular pistol primers. HTH.)

I would add, use the lightest bullet you can find with the largest safe load of 296/110. The effect is like a handheld thunderclap. Not pleasant but I guess some people enjoy it. People shooting next to you will NOT enjoy it.

NavajoNPaleFace
September 16, 2008, 01:08 AM
Indeed, I was NOT the one who loaded his rounds.

I know better. :)

cliffy
September 16, 2008, 03:12 AM
70 degree Fahrenheit should represent some sort of norm. DROP powder grain weight above 70 degrees, and possibly add a tenth grain for every 10 degrees of additional coolness. No SUCH thing as a HOT load, until ambient temperature indicates otherwise. Yes, in Texas-type heat-waves, some loads are TOO HOT pressurewise. On the frontier of Canada, the same load could be considered merely adequate. Factory loads take this into consideration, so Alaskan hunting could be valued as whimpy loads, whereas Texas loads could be considered excessively HOT pressurewise. How can a factory load be perfected for temperature extremes? I don't know because no known powder I've run across is truly temperature insensitive! Allow them to tell you how it's configured. ONLY handloading can compensate for varibles regarding temperature EXTREMES. Only expert handloads can work BEST for one's application. Since I fire 200 rounds a week, I beg to differ with TEMPERATURE-INSENSITIVE powders. cliffy

Clark
September 16, 2008, 11:56 AM
Some guy was telling me that my load was crazy and dangerous.

I produced an old load book that had the same load.

The guys said, "Oh.... that's ok then."

The load was not so hot and the burning load book fundamentalism in Joe's mind.

Steve C
September 16, 2008, 03:53 PM
If someone was to ask me as a reloader to put together some HOT loads for them in .357 or 44mag I'd just load 'em up some standard loads using W296 or H110. Big bang and flash and good velocity but not anything super special. It would make them feel like they're shooting a cannon and be perfectly safe to fire. Its mostly a matter of perception as to what is HOT and what is not.

FM12
September 17, 2008, 03:01 AM
Any load that makes my hand hurt anymore is a hot load! The days of needing a recoil/noise/blast/smoke/flame fix are gone. Make mine mild now, please (that's one reason I reload!) Like 3.0 Gr Bullseye for 148 and 158 lead .38 spls.

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