Uh Ohh....."Honestly,someone stole it, officer"


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ScottsGT
September 15, 2008, 04:41 PM
http://www.thestate.com/breaking/story/524899.html



Man arrested after 7-year-old finds loaded gun at playground
A Lancaster man was arrested over the weekend after a loaded pistol was left at a Fort Mill playground and a 7-year-old girl found it, according to a York County Sheriff’s Office report.

A deputy was called to Plaza Fiesta just after 1:45 p.m. Saturday by a man who said a 7-year-old girl had given him a gun that she found on the playground.

The weapon was fully loaded when the girl discovered it, the report stated.

Later, another man asked a security guard if he could have his gun back, the report stated. Roberts told the sheriff’s deputy that he had his gun on the playground and must have dropped it when he went to get his son.

The suspect, 31-year-old Anthony Roberts, has a concealed weapons permit, but signs at the entrances to Plaza Fiesta said no weapons were allowed, the report stated.

Roberts was charged with trespassing after notice.

-- The (Rock Hill) Herald

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Aguila Blanca
September 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
Does PA state law allow local governmental entities to go beyond state law in creating victim disarmament zones? I didn't think so. I think they guy may have a statutory defense in the PA premption law.

ScottsGT
September 15, 2008, 04:58 PM
That would be good, it it were in PA. This is Lancaster SC. No the questioin is, was it the correct 30.06 sign required by law?

damien
September 15, 2008, 05:02 PM
I thought 30.06 was a Texas statute, or are we now using this term generically? Or is this a subtle "Texas is everywhere" jab?

deadin
September 15, 2008, 05:03 PM
Take notice that he is not being charged with a firearms violation. He is being charged with trespass.

againstthagrane
September 15, 2008, 05:04 PM
what is the "30.06" statute?

ny32182
September 15, 2008, 05:04 PM
If the sign is not 100% valid format according to SC law, it holds no legal weight and the trespassing charge shouldn't stick.

Wouldn't surprise me if they could get him for something about the wreckless endagerment of children though... holy crap, that was an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.

ScottsGT
September 15, 2008, 05:06 PM
30.06=generic, I guess. But heree's SC's law on the sign:
SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building's entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty-six inches wide by forty-eight inches tall in size; (2) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black three- inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty-four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety-six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.

Treo
September 15, 2008, 06:19 PM
he had his gun on the playground and must have dropped it when he went to get his son.

How could you carry a gun in such a way as to not noticed that you dropped it?

Dope
September 15, 2008, 06:53 PM
They don't say what kind of gun or the caliber or anything. Easily could have been a derringer or other ultra-small handgun that he was pocket carrying. I bet it would be easy to miss if you were focused on your child.

Dope

insidious_calm
September 15, 2008, 07:37 PM
This is a poster scenario for using a holster......


I.C.

Pat-inCO
September 15, 2008, 07:44 PM
This is a poster scenario for using a holster.
I think it is more a reason to revoke the turkey's permit. If he can't even keep track of his "concealed" weapon, he is too dumb to be allowed to carry one.

10 Ring Tao
September 15, 2008, 07:48 PM
So who lives near there that wants to get a picture of that sign and every entrance?

Duke Junior
September 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
Looks like the NRA's Eddie Eagle program worked out here.

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

hopelessjoe
September 15, 2008, 07:52 PM
I think it is more a reason to revoke the turkey's permit. If he can't even keep track of his "concealed" weapon, he is too dumb to be allowed to carry one.

And you have never done something stupid that could endanger a persons life?

How about the time you busted the speed record to get to work on time?

You aren't allowed to be the judge until you can be a compassionate and intelligent jury member.

SCKimberFan
September 15, 2008, 07:57 PM
This actually took place at a playground (play area) inside a mall. Plaza Fiesta is an outlet mall.

I have to agree with Treo on this:

How could you carry a gun in such a way as to not noticed that you dropped it?

Even if it was a pocket gun, you would notice it falling out. This was not someone who should have had a gun. If you can't keep track of it when you are carrying...you shouldn't have one. :eek:

On another point, if you are going to ignore the sign, keep the gun out of sight. I am certain the sign does not meet SC No Weapons sign requirements, although I have not been to that mall for quite a while (and I am in Clearwater FL today).

cassandrasdaddy
September 15, 2008, 09:15 PM
you gotta wonder how some folks could defend someone who drops their gun in the playground.

SCKimberFan
September 15, 2008, 09:19 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if they could get him for something about the wreckless endagerment of children though... holy crap, that was an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.

I'm really surprised the York County Solicitor (DA) hasn't charged him with this. Although is would be "reckless endangerment".

cassandrasdaddy
September 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
yea the charge is a real break for him

Old School
September 15, 2008, 09:27 PM
I think it is more a reason to revoke the turkey's permit. If he can't even keep track of his "concealed" weapon, he is too dumb to be allowed to carry one.
you gotta wonder how some folks could defend someone who drops their gun in the playground.
No question. Losing a gun is bad enough, but on a playground for crying out loud. It is truly amazing that there was no tragedy. This guy is a poster child for our opponents.

Treo
September 15, 2008, 09:44 PM
and I am in Clearwater FL today

My profound condolences

tigre
September 15, 2008, 09:51 PM
Looks like the NRA's Eddie Eagle program worked out here.

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
Except for the "don't touch" part. It sounds like the little girl picked it up and took it to an adult. Four steps seem like too much for little kids anyways. I'd think "don't touch" and "tell an adult" would be all that's really needed.

Anyways, yeah, that's about the most stereotypically irresponsible thing someone could do with a concealed weapon. It sounds like the kind of hypothetical an anti would come up with. They've just got to be holding off on further charges trying to figure out what to throw at him. No way this is just trespassing.

cassandrasdaddy
September 15, 2008, 09:55 PM
god forbid i do something like that though at my age i've learned that i am capable of monumental screwups. if that was me i would kick my own butt pretty good

SCKimberFan
September 15, 2008, 09:56 PM
Treo:

could be worse, I could be in Detroit. :D

Duke Junior
September 15, 2008, 10:33 PM
Except for the "don't touch" part. It sounds like the little girl picked it up and took it to an adult. Four steps seem like too much for little kids anyways. I'd think "don't touch" and "tell an adult" would be all that's really needed.

Technically,you are correct.
But even a blind squirrel(me)finds an acorn once in a while.:)
4 steps with no mis-steps is not too many.
At the age of 7,I was handling Momma's .38 Colt Detective Special.

tigre
September 15, 2008, 11:08 PM
Technically,you are correct.
Well, it was a 7-year-old walking around holding a loaded gun without supervision (a 7yo we cannot assume to be familiar with firearms). To me that doesn't necessarily seem like a shining moment for Eddie Eagle. I'm curious who this guy was that she gave the gun to, and where her parents were.

4 steps with no mis-steps is not too many.
I mean it's too many because two of the steps are redundant. If you're not touching, you've already stopped. Stopping is part of not touching. In order to tell an adult you're going to have to leave the immediate area, unless there's already an adult in the area, and then there's supervision so there's probably not a problem. Really, you just need to not touch it and tell an adult. There's no reason to teach a four-step process when a two-step process gives the same information, especially when you're dealing with kids.

Duke Junior
September 15, 2008, 11:49 PM
Well, it was a 7-year-old walking around holding a loaded gun without supervision (a 7yo we cannot assume to be familiar with firearms). To me that doesn't necessarily seem like a shining moment for Eddie Eagle. I'm curious who this guy was that she gave the gun to, and where her parents were.

I give up. Eddie Eagle dims.At 9 I was going from Greensboro to NYC on my own by train.
It's all in the perspective.
To me the girl did good. Analyze it to death .2 steps,3 steps,4 steps, to me she got the job done.

Treo
September 16, 2008, 02:28 AM
SC,

Could be worse you could be in Omaha :(

Elza
September 16, 2008, 03:53 AM
againstthagrane: what is the "30.06" statute?Under Texas law any establishment that wishes to prohibit CCW must post a sign in accordance with Section 30.06 of the Texas Penal Code. It is a very strict standard for the signage. Anything else is not enforceable.

I refuse to believe that “30.06” just happened to be the next code number for this law. Someone in Austin has to have a sense of humor!

Kind of Blued
September 16, 2008, 05:57 AM
I'm glad this didn't turn out worse than it did.

The guy got lucky. Very lucky.

ny32182
September 16, 2008, 10:28 AM
According to SC CCW law, you can't carry in the following:

-Classic list of specifically prohibited places like schools, govt buildings, places that serve alcohol, post office; all the usual suspects. If you ignore this and get caught I believe you can be charged with a serious crime, though I don't recall exactly what the charge is.

-In addition, can't carry in any place that posts the *correct* signage as outlined earlier in the thread. If you ignore an incorrect sign, there is no consequence. If you ignore the correct sign, you can be charged with trespassing.

SO, assuming the sign was a correct one, he is being charged correctly, and is not getting any sort of "break" based on that particular law. HOWEVER, in all my years of carrying in SC, I've only seen one correct sign; at an IHOP in Myrtle Beach. So if the sign at the mall was incorrect, he should be able to successfully fight the trespassing charge in court. All the above assuming his CW permit was valid.

That is how the CCW aspect of the law works. Now, if they can't find something else to charge him with based on the fact that he left a loaded handgun on a playground, I'll be real surprised. And that will have nothing to do with the CCW laws.

I grew up on the Fort Mill area, but that was years ago and I am not familiar with that particular location.

ny32182
September 16, 2008, 10:43 AM
If nothing else, I'm sure they will get him for "brandishing" or something like that.

SCKimberFan
September 16, 2008, 05:12 PM
ny32182 -

It is the Crossroads Outlet Mall at Carowinds entrance. It now caters to the Hispanic population of the Charlotte area.

7.62X25mm
September 16, 2008, 05:32 PM
How can you drop your handgun and not notice?

ny32182
September 16, 2008, 05:32 PM
SC,

Ah yes, I am familiar with that spot. Its about ten minutes from where I grew up.

Well hopefully the guy will pull his head out of his rectal cavity if he ever gets a second chance.

Duke Junior
September 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
How can you drop your handgun and not notice?

But he managed this stupidity and this is why I believe the 7 year old should be commended.
Had she went off to alert an adult, leaving the gun in the open,another smaller child or one with less commonsense could have picked the gun up and killed or injured themselves or someone else.
In most cases, I agree the child should alert an adult without touching.But there always will be exceptions and in this case,a smart young girl seems to have made the right call.

SCKimberFan
September 16, 2008, 08:55 PM
Here is a link to another story on this with a bit more info.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/wcnc-091508-krg-gun.7ce2295f.html

cassandrasdaddy
September 16, 2008, 10:27 PM
i'll be darned the penalty is loss of permit for a year? if it happens again? thats a wrist slap

Duke Junior
September 16, 2008, 10:42 PM
"It really disgusted me the fact that somebody would bring a weapon in here," said customer Mark O’Day.

Well,obviously,even with the stupidity by Mr.Roberts,Mark O'Day needs a few Constitutional lessons.
The O'Day's, in so many respects, are even more threatening to the RKBA's than the Roberts'.

Child finds loaded gun at mall playground

06:08 AM EDT on Tuesday, September 16, 2008

By MARIO ROLDAN / NewsChannel 36
E-mail Mario: MRoldan@WCNC.com
Young girl finds gun; man arrested

FORT MILL, S.C. -- Parents at a popular playground got a major scare after a little girl found a loaded handgun and picked it up.

"Oh my God," said Plaza Fiesta patron Ana Moreno. "Imagine if the little girl would try to use it, be curious about it."

The playground is inside the Plaza Fiesta shopping center in Fort Mill near Carowinds. Saturday afternoon, a 7-year-old girl grabbed the 22 magnum from the playground and handed it over to security, according to investigators.

"It really disgusted me the fact that somebody would bring a weapon in here," said customer Mark O’Day.

Anthony Roberts, 31, claimed ownership of the gun. York County sheriff’s deputies arrested him.

"It’s a big playground, a lot of kids running around here," said O’Day. "It could have been horrible, a little kid with a gun."

Roberts told investigators he must have dropped his gun when he went into the playground to pick up his son. He returned and approached a security guard asking to get his pistol back.

"No guns, knives or weapons allowed on premises," read signs at Plaza Fiesta.

Even though Roberts carries a concealed weapons permit, the Lancaster man faces a misdemeanor trespassing charge.

Under South Carolina law, Roberts could lose his permit for up to a year if he’s charged a second time.

ScottsGT
September 16, 2008, 11:03 PM
Sign is WRONG for SC.

ny32182
September 17, 2008, 09:32 AM
In that case it should be a clear cut aquittal on the trespassing charge, I believe.

LaVere
September 17, 2008, 07:42 PM
I remember several years back. I dropped my kahr k40. I was middle of winter maybe 20 degree I was wearing wool shirt big goose down coat over that " Think Michelin man". The gun was in a IWB holster in my pants. I got out about 1/2 block from my driveway to remove the new frost that built up since I left my driveway. I must have bent over the front fender and scraped away. And it fell off holster and all. I could not feel anything missing. When I got to the restaurant and removed my Down coat. I felt it missing.
I went to my car immediately. Not there. Went back to the only other place I stopped. There it was "ON" the top of the snow bank where it fell. Since there was no or little traffic on my street no one saw it.
I was sure up set that morning. It can happen.

SCKimberFan
September 17, 2008, 08:06 PM
LaVere

I can understand it with all the clothing on you had on. However, in Fort Mill SC where this took place, it was probably close to 90 that day, so I am certain he wasn't wearing a parka. :D

ny32182
September 18, 2008, 11:44 AM
How could anything get way up under a parka to pull a holstered gun out from inside the waistband of your pants? I'd think with a parka on, the chances of that happening to a correctly holstered gun would be even more miniscule than if the gun was completely uncovered.

Heartless_Conservative
September 18, 2008, 12:41 PM
The article said it was a .22 magnum. NAA mini-revolver perhaps? I've heard they're pretty tiny, still pretty darn irresponsible though. I can't see how something can just fall out of someone's pocket (well there was one time my pocket knife fell out of my pocket, but that was because it had worn a hole through the bottom).

siglite
September 18, 2008, 02:48 PM
Wasn't there a thread around here a while back about a cop that left his firearm in an airport bathroom? Wasn't there universal and venomous condemnation of the aforementioned cop?

Was that because they're better trained than us, and should know better? You know, those cops that've had all that training that qualifies them to carry firearms, as such, we should not? That training?

Or was it simply because he was a cop?

See, I'm the first guy to scream loud when I see police misconduct. But let me tell you, hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves. And boy are we sure quick to crucify some cop who does this. How about we hold each other to the same standard.

This case is absurdly irresponsible. And no one should be making apologies or coming up with "understandable scenarios" for it to happen. This is outrageous negligence, and nothing more.

SCKimberFan
September 18, 2008, 04:28 PM
siglite,

I think most of the posts were calling this person irresponsible. There may have been 1 or 2 that gave him more of a pass. I am of the former group. People like this guy who is that careless about his weapon should NOT have a permit to carry it.

Events of this nature cast a negative light on responsible gun owners. We can have 25 positive stories about responsible gun owners defending themselves or others, but when something like this happens, it gets the attention, which then takes 25 more positive stories to begin to turn public opinion back to the positive side.

deadin
September 18, 2008, 07:33 PM
In the service we used to say that one "AW****" cancelled out 25 "ATTABOYS":D

Officers'Wife
September 18, 2008, 07:54 PM
Hi Hopelessjoe

How about the time you busted the speed record to get to work on time?

So one wrong justifies the other? When discovered stupid behavior needs to have consequences.

You aren't allowed to be the judge until you can be a compassionate and intelligent jury member.

A judge's duty is to interpret the law and the jury member's duty is to weigh the facts and decide guilt beyond the shadow of doubt or not. Neither requires compassion, only intelligence and common sense.

Selena

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