I am a new man


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HANDLOADER
September 15, 2008, 09:19 PM
Went to the range with my new 243 and a box of Wolf ammo. I know a reloader shooting factorys is strictly tabo. Any way I drive up to the rifle bay park the truck. There is already 2 guys there. Father and son. The old man I say was about 69 and the boy was about 35. I can't reamber the exact age now. Any way I grab my usual shooting bench. And the usual hellos and range clears are given. The Father and son group has a M-1 and a Mauser. Nice spicemens i'll say. I have the target set up and that is when it hits me. No spooting scope. Bo ho for me. Lucky a 9 power scope on the rifle. I set down and fire off 14 rounds and and am pretty happy with the group. Which is 1 1/4 inch at 100 yards pretty good for cheap ammo. Any way the old man yells out son I think you need some help with that rifle. I say what am I doing wrong. He says "you aren't shooting as close as you can":what: He says bring the rifle over to my set up and he will show me what I need to do. I bring it over he says have you bore sighted this rifle. Deer in head light look and I said no. He showed me how to do it and next thing I know the rifle is hooting out the bullseye. Whoopie. I thank him for the advice and continue to talk with him. Turns out he is a 1000 yard competior. So I wind up leaving the range a hour latter with 2 feelings in me. First one is the gladdness of posssinf this new knowlidge. The 2nd is of stupity for never thinking to do this in my past 20 years of shooting. So the question for today is "Has anyone else left the range with a new found knowledge"?

GOD BLESS

Handloader

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Auburn1992
September 15, 2008, 09:22 PM
Yea, don't get next to kids who have dads that have no idea how to teach safety.

Thernlund
September 15, 2008, 09:26 PM
I learned that you don't have to have hands to enjoy shooting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4667718&postcount=10


-T.

moooose102
September 15, 2008, 09:32 PM
No it isnt! thats how i get about 1/2 of my brass to reload with. buy ammo on sale, shoot it up and load it with good bullets for hunting. you get to practice with the new sale ammo, fireform it, and have fun at the same time.

scrat
September 15, 2008, 09:46 PM
ya i dont reload for .22lr. just no point

bogie
September 15, 2008, 10:00 PM
I don't see how bore sighting would improve accuracy.

And 1.25" high at 100 yards sounds just about right... You wanna twist that back up there... Think a 2.5-3" circle around the bullseye - Basically, don't want the bullet to go over that circle, or under it. The max distance you can sight "dead on" the bullseye, and still be "on target" for the critter is the distance where the group goes below the circle.

Last time I offered to help someone sight in a rifle, after they laboriously worked their way through a box of expensive factory stuff, they told me to get lost. And ran through another box. I could have had them on paper, and zeroed enough for Bambi, in two shots.

Win75
September 16, 2008, 08:25 AM
I don't see how bore sighting would improve accuracy.

+1
This one had me scratching my head also.

If he was already on the paper, he had no need to bore sight. All he needed was to make corrections in the scope for up/down or right/left to get zeroed. :(

JohnL2
September 16, 2008, 12:22 PM
Are you kidding me? I've met great folks at the range.
One day I was zeroing my new scope and was having a bit of a time with it. I knew I should have zeroed at 25 yards and then 100 and so forth for longer ranges, but no, being impatient I jumped onto the 200 yard range to zero. Hey I was was just starting out with long-range scoped shooting. All by myself with no one to guide me.
I still remember his name. Randy saw I was having some trouble and came over to help. He taught me the "rock method" as he called it. Zeroing a scope on a rifle on the fly. It will use up some ammo but it is the best way when you don't feel like walking back and forth on the range all day checking targets. He expressed his concern that it would burn up some ammo, I said that I did not care because the rifle and scope were worthless if it couldn't hit anything. He answered that I had a good attitude.
I learned that day also to never underestimate the value of a good quality spotting scope.

MinnMooney
September 16, 2008, 12:38 PM
both quotes are from bogie -

I don't see how bore sighting would improve accuracy.
I don't see how it took until the 5th reply poster to catch this! Bore sighting is only good enough to get you "on the paper" at about 20-25yds. It certainly isn't meant for "fine tuning" after you've already shot a 1 1/4" group @ 100 yds.!

And 1.25" high at 100 yards sounds just about right...

He never said that he was 1.25" high...... he said a group that was 1 1/4". We still don't know where the group center was.


I can't believe that a 1000 yd competitor would be giving that kind of incorrect advice - somebody got something wrong somewhere.

Some correction help here "HANDLOADER" ?


from "JohnL2" -
He taught me the "rock method"

What exactly is "The Rock Method"? Don't leave us hangin' like that!!!

bogie
September 16, 2008, 12:49 PM
Paper method is better...

Gitcherself some sandbags.

Now, bed that rifle down good. You don't want it to be able to move side to side (but it -does- have to move front to rear).

Pull your bolt, or use a dental mirror, and look down the bore. Aim the bore at the center of the piece of paper (this works at 100 yards...). Dial the scope until it is centered on the piece of paper.

That is bore sighting.

Now, aim at the center of the target, and when you fire your first round, it should be somewhere on the target. Bed your rifle down so it isn't going to move, with the crosshairs on the original aiming point. Now, without moving the rifle, adjust the scope until the crosshairs are on the hole. Fire a second round to be sure.

You want to be slightly high at 100 yards with most rifles.

JohnL2
September 16, 2008, 01:09 PM
Okay. The "rock method". Taught to me by Randy.

You should have a second pair of eyes to watch the bullet impacts so you can adjust your windage and elevation. If you don't then try to adjust your scope to its widest field of view if you have an adjustable power scope.

Look downrange and pick a rock in the dirt. It should not be too far away. Maybe 30 yards or so. Now put your crosshairs on it and squeeze off a round. Have your spotter tell you where the bullet impact was and now adjust accordingly until your rounds are hitting that rock. Perhaps even blow it away. I blew it away.
Now, look downrange. Choose another larger rock further downrange or even a large tree or some other object where you can see your bullet impacts. We shot at some steel lying out there. We actually could see the bullets hit and go TWANG. Are they impacting close together? Adjust accordingly.
Now you might be able to get on paper. My target was at 200 yards. I squeezed off a round and we were on paper. I adjusted elevation a little bit. And about a dozen or so rounds later from when we started I was zeroed for 200 yards with a little bit of fine tuning.

hksw
September 16, 2008, 01:24 PM
I don't see how bore sighting would improve accuracy.

+1
This one had me scratching my head also.

Maybe as the 1000 yd shooter was helping zero the rifle he was also conveying some of his shooting techniques to HANDLOADER for better precision.

I had a similar experience from the other side one time. At a range I use to go to in WV, I was benchrest shooting one of my .22s and a guy getting ready for the hunting season rolls in two or three tables down. He had set up and was trying to zero in his new scoped Ruger M77 (do not recall the centerfire cailber). He had only brought a box of 20 rounds to zero in. As shooting went along he couldn't get on paper at all and finally came over to ask me for a little help. I went over to his station and asked him if he had bore sighted it. From his look it did not seem like he knew what the process was and said, "no". At this time I asked if I can do it for him to show him and he let me at it. (At this time, another shooter down the line decided to go down range to change targets without informing anyone. Sheesh. When I saw this, I quickly placed the empty rfile on the bench with the action open and told the guy I was helping, "I'll wait until that guy gets back from down range.") When the range was hot again, I pulled the bolt out and showed him how to do it. He finally got on paper (I let him do all of the shooting as it was his gun), but he wasn't able to zero it in as he had run out of ammo. He packed up and left when he ran out but came back with a new box as I was leaving.

I didn't teach him any shooting skills as I had none to teach.

MinnMooney
September 16, 2008, 01:30 PM
JohnL2 - Thanks for the explaination of "The Rock Method". I kinda figured that was what you were getting at. My son & I did that exact thing when he lost his 'zero' due to cranking back & forth, up & down on his turrets for extremely long range shooting and high winds. We got him back on the correct rotations by using "The Rock Method". We had shear 20' high cliff of bare dirt/gravel and just picked out a white rock to shoot at. I watched thru the spotting scope and told him where he hit. He dialed back to his original settings and hit the 3" rock (325 yds) that next shot! He was 1 rotation off in elevation and 2 rotations of windage (it had been an extremely windy day in North Dakota!). His 1st shot at "the rock" had been 3 1/2' high and 7' left! I was lucky to have seen the bullet dust 'cause my FOV was small from the 45x setting.

bogie
September 16, 2008, 04:16 PM
Look downrange and pick a rock in the dirt. It should not be too far away. Maybe 30 yards or so. Now put your crosshairs on it and squeeze off a round.

DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE A HIGH BACKSTOP. Rounds skip off the ground, and can go over what seems to be a high enough berm.

Walkalong
September 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
I had my eyes opened shooting over wind flags for the first time. ;)

I don't see how bore sighting would improve accuracy.It doesn't. It helps you get on paper faster. Saves ammo.

Having your group form where you are aiming vs off to the side etc, does help you shoot better groups.

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