Are things getting better or worse?


September 8, 2003, 01:33 PM
After re-reading "Unintended Consequences" for perhaps the fifth time last week, I wondered a few things. How many here on THR have actually been harassed, had their rights violated by, or otherwise been directly affected by ATF, FBI, DEA or other government agencies? I'm not talking about paperwork annoyances, I'm talking about agents (thugs or otherwise) actually showing up at your door. Anyone had property siezed, guns confiscated, harassment, or other direct "chilling" of their rights?

I'm not trying to minimize the situation, just trying to get a feel for what's really going on out there. Have the various agencies gotten better or worse since UC was published? What are your thoughts on things going forward the next say 25 years? On the one hand, it seems the people (at least since 9/11) are moving toward more freedom and personal responsibility...while the feds move toward more expansion of government's power over the individual citizen ("Patriot" Act, Homeland Security, etc...) So which side is making more headway?

If you enjoyed reading about "Are things getting better or worse?" here in archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join today for the full version!
September 8, 2003, 02:21 PM
This is a great country and we're making it better each and every day.
Me? I've never been bothered by those of our faithful servants you've referred to as thugs.


September 8, 2003, 02:26 PM
Well, I didn't mean to call all of them thugs any more then I would call all of the local police in my town thugs. Most of them are decent people. Some of them ARE thugs who have no business in a position of authority.

That's why I said "thugs or otherwise"

September 8, 2003, 02:31 PM
It's really hard to get rights back once you lose them.
I don't think this BS with air travel will last forever--it's just too annoying for too many "important" people--but it may be many years before air travel is reasonably pleasant again. (And in both cases where terrorists were actually thwarted on US flights, it was because the passengers took action in spite of being disarmed!!) :banghead:

Mark Tyson
September 8, 2003, 02:54 PM
This is the friendliest RKBA environment we've had in a while in the US - I know that's sad, but it's what we have and we must work with it. Things could be much much worse, folks. Remember after the 1990's school shootings all the proposals being floated? They died - and that was with a much unfriendlier political climate. Now we have the Lawful Commerce in Firearms act on the table.

The key to the future will the the assault weapons ban. If we can let it die and keep it dead, it will be a major victory. Yes, they could always draft a new one, but it's very hard to put an issue on the agenda when you have so much else going on in the war, economy, health care, etc. Plus we have a lot of people thinking that victim disarmament/gun control is just a loser of a political issue. The enemy will be reluctant to spend their political capital on this issue.

If the ban dies the next step will be to repeal the 1989 restricitons on import, which should be fairly logical. After all, if the exact same gun is available in the US if domestically manufactured, why not allow it to be importedd as well? Then maybe we can talk about the amendment to the 1986 FOPA. Since legal, registered machine guns were hardly ever used in crimes(2 crimes I believe) we have a pretty good argument there.

Standing Wolf
September 8, 2003, 09:34 PM
The right to keep and bear arms is in better shape today for most Americans than it's been in a long time.

That saidâ„¢, citizens of a large number of cities and states have already lost or are rapidly losing enormous portions of their Second Amendment civil rights. As well as I can discern, the greatest immediate danger is from elected officials rather than federal agents. They're not obvious jack-booted thugs: they wear pin-striped suits.

September 8, 2003, 10:41 PM
Oddly, it often seems as if the state of RKBA is getting both better and worse at the same time.

Worse, as more and more cities pas stricter and stricter gun control laws, and the feds keep wanting their share of the gun control pie.

But also better, as more and more states pass "shall-issue" carry laws.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say. I can look at the cities -- NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. -- where strict gun control is in effect, and see the crime rates and trends there, and I can look at the states that have passed shall-issue laws and see the crime rates and trends there. And I'm glad I live in a shall-issue state.

Monte Harrison
September 9, 2003, 09:15 AM
The issue is becoming more polarized. While people on the left and right coasts are steadily losing what rights they are allowed, things for all of us in Flyover Country are better than they have been in many years, and getting brighter. More states have "shall issue" CCW, more gun bans have been declared unconstitutional, a US court of appeals has reaffirmed the 2nd Amendment as protecting an individual right, etc.

September 10, 2003, 01:42 PM
I find that it is all too easy to become infected with "sky-is-falling" syndrome.

If you read one too many articles about some new, draconian gun legislation being introduced, or about wanting to do thorough background checks on every airline passenger, and it is easy to get disillusioned.

I personally am still trying to get a grip on how bad it is or isn't.

If you enjoyed reading about "Are things getting better or worse?" here in archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join today for the full version!