Hunting with BP Pistols


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HB
September 16, 2008, 06:23 PM
I'm looking at getting a BP pistol, but are any of them powerful/accurate enough for hunting deer at 20 yards or so? Single shots included of course. Having a back-up shot probably isn't a bad idea when it takes forever to reload (I know, it's not that bad, but when you include a huge buck, a treestand, and heavy gloves, it becomes a little complicated.

I might get one any just to hunt squirrels :D

HB

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Chawbaccer
September 16, 2008, 08:26 PM
I use a Traditions BUck Hunter pistol. Prb and about sixty grains of 3f. Even have a scope on it. I have taken three small does with it.

mtngunr
September 16, 2008, 11:01 PM
Both the Ruger Old Army revolver and Lyman Plains Pistol can be loaded to approximate factory .45 Colt performance, and both can equal better grade modern centerfire revolver accuracy at 50yds.

HB
September 16, 2008, 11:20 PM
Would the revolvers be suited better to "finishers".....

HB

mtngunr
September 16, 2008, 11:29 PM
I've very little experience with repro C&B revolvers....I've a fair amount of experience with the ROA, and anything which duplicates a .45 Colt will shoot clean through a deer, and provide 2-3ft of penetration on hog or black bear....I'd hazard that aside from a Walker or Dragoon, the rest of the more energetic repro revolver loads would be lucky to see .38Spl striking energy....

HB
September 16, 2008, 11:51 PM
Thanks

mtngunr
September 16, 2008, 11:56 PM
Another option would be a brace of singleshots....zero chance of cap fragments from the first shot causing the gun to jam....of course, with a revolver, lowering the muzzle while cocking will greatly reduce cap fragment jams.

Voodoochile
September 17, 2008, 05:31 AM
I've very little experience with repro C&B revolvers....I've a fair amount of experience with the ROA, and anything which duplicates a .45 Colt will shoot clean through a deer, and provide 2-3ft of penetration on hog or black bear....I'd hazard that aside from a Walker or Dragoon, the rest of the more energetic repro revolver loads would be lucky to see .38Spl striking energy....

If you're talking about round ball loads then yes you are right but with a 200 - 220gr. Lee conical in either of my Remington Repros can get close to a .45 colts performance, my little Pietta with it's 5-1/2" barrel loaded with 30gr. FFFG & a 220gr. conical can produce what a .45 Schofield load in a similar barrel length can of approximatly 240 ft. lbs. & when I load 35gr. FFFG with the same bullet into my 8" model it's real close to what a factory loaded .45 Colt will do at approximatly 350 ft. lbs.

Now personally if I was inclined to take any of my collection out to hunt Deer then I would opt for either of my 8" barreled Pietta or Uberti '58 loaded like I mentioned but if I wanted more punch then a single shot like a Lyman Plains pistol in .50 or .54 caliber would surely fit the bill, also with using any black powder pistol "single shot or revolver" I would limit my shots to maybe 30 yards unless better sights are on it & I was to practice more often at a longer range.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 17, 2008, 07:05 AM
If you're talking about round ball loads then yes you are right but with a 200 - 220gr. Lee conical in either of my Remington Repros can get close to a .45 colts performance, my little Pietta with it's 5-1/2" barrel loaded with 30gr. FFFG & a 220gr. conical can produce what a .45 Schofield load in a similar barrel length can of approximatly 240 ft. lbs. & when I load 35gr. FFFG with the same bullet into my 8" model it's real close to what a factory loaded .45 Colt will do at approximatly 350 ft. lbs.

Now personally if I was inclined to take any of my collection out to hunt Deer then I would opt for either of my 8" barreled Pietta or Uberti '58 loaded like I mentioned but if I wanted more punch then a single shot like a Lyman Plains pistol in .50 or .54 caliber would surely fit the bill, also with using any black powder pistol "single shot or revolver" I would limit my shots to maybe 30 yards unless better sights are on it & I was to practice more often at a longer range.

Can these be bought? Or can you only get them by molding them yourself?

Voodoochile
September 17, 2008, 07:43 AM
Can these be bought? Or can you only get them by molding them yourself?

No I haven't found anywhere that sells these bullets & the Buffalo Ballets I don't think are available any more but they were 180 - 190gr. so Molding them your self at this time is the only option.

If I had a larger supply of lead "which I can get" I'd sell 50 of the 220 grainers in a box for $9.00 per but then I'm not sure that there would be that much of a worth while customer base for that...

6Gun4Fun
September 17, 2008, 10:05 AM
I hunt with my Ruger Old Army. Deer size animals are no problem, but it's always best to let them get in close. I use the 220 gr. Lee hollow point, but I'm sure a round ball would be just as lethal.

Acorn Mush
September 17, 2008, 10:40 AM
6Gun4Fun, is that a trigger overtravel stop I see on your scoped Ruger Old Army?

6Gun4Fun
September 17, 2008, 12:27 PM
Yes it's a trigger stop that I made years ago. I also added a hammer offset so I wouldn't have to worry about thumb clearance. Both are clamp on units so I didn't do any harm to the firearm.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 17, 2008, 06:31 PM
:D Thanks for the picture 6Gun4Fun I'll have to look into getting that mold and some pure lead.

I assume that these .456 bullets could be fired out of my Pietta 58 new army?

Voodoochile
September 17, 2008, 06:43 PM
Quick Draw:
I'd check the chamber diameter on your '58 before you buy the mold because if your chambers are smaller than .450 then you'd be better off using the 44 Cal. Rem. 450-200-IR instead.My 23 year old Pietta '58 has .450 chambers but my 1 year old Pietta '58 had .446 chambers but I reamed them out to .451 to better accomodate the grove of the barrel.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 17, 2008, 06:55 PM
Will do Voodoo! Thanks for the heads up!!

Omnivore
September 17, 2008, 08:25 PM
I don't understand it, but during ML seasons, Washington State prohibits hunting or dispatching game with any pistol. You may carry one, but you may not use it on game. You may use a .38 Spec during modern firearm season ("minimum 24 caliber centerfire cartridge". I know a guy who's shot deer straight through with a .40 S&W auto pistol) but not a Walker or even a large singleshot during ML season. Illogical. Something needs to be done to change that.

Nice info on the conicals, Voodoo. I may have to try it with my '58. Thanks.

Omnivore
September 17, 2008, 08:53 PM
Voodoo; You're getting almost 890 fps from an 8" remmie with a 200 grain slug? I'm skeptical. Or are my calculations off? I'm using;
M(gr) x V squared(fps)/450400 = E (ft. lbs)

My 7.5" Colt .44 generates an average MV of 841 fps with round ball and 28 (weighed) grains 3F Goex. I haven't chronoed the Remmie, but that's a major difference. That sort of performance would be great.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 17, 2008, 09:19 PM
Hey Voodoo my chambers measure .444/.445 do you think the .450's will work?

Thanks for your help! Much appreciated!

mtngunr
September 18, 2008, 12:02 AM
Voodoo; You're getting almost 890 fps from an 8" remmie with a 200 grain slug?

Best I've heard of is just under 800fps with a 200gr bullet, which is better than I suspected.... a little below .45ACP, in any case...

6Gun4Fun
September 18, 2008, 01:56 AM
Here's a shot of the hollow point bullet mold by Lee

Voodoochile
September 18, 2008, 05:09 AM
When I have a max charge of 35gr. FFFG Goex & the 220gr. Conical "which actually drops a 222gr. bullet" over top it produces 831fps. average through my Pietta 8" '58 & that calculates to:
222gr. X 831fps. X 831fps. X .000002218 = 340ft. Lbs.
I did say approximatly 350 ft. lbs..

Quick Draw:
Yes the .450 Mold will work just fine in your case because it is a heeled bullet the first & second band are smaller diameter than the top which measures .450.
If I remember right it's .442 - .445 - .450 which will allow you to seat the bullet into the chamber far enough to push it home straight with the rammer.

BTW the .456 220grainers are .448 - .450 - .456 which makes starting them into my .450 & .451 chambers a snap.

6Gun4Fun:
That is an interesting mold there & I now wish I had that mold instead of the regular 1R mold that I have.
Where did you get that one?

6Gun4Fun
September 18, 2008, 12:33 PM
I've had this mold for some 10 years now. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where I bought it, but it's just not coming to me (yes, I suffer from the over 40 CRS syndrome).

Voodoochile
September 18, 2008, 01:22 PM
Oh Crap don't say that because I'm eding the Big 40 my self & to top it all off I work on cars for a living so I've got it real bad.

StrawHat
September 18, 2008, 03:25 PM
Voodoochile,

I don't believe Lee is making them anymore.

I got mine almost thirty years ago and haven't seen a new one in a long time.

I have both the 36 and 44 in HP form.

A good machinist should be able to convert your mold to a HP version.

Voodoochile
September 18, 2008, 03:32 PM
Ah well that's alright, I use pure enough lead that will give some expansion & I like the weight of my 222 grainers. :D

mausgun
September 20, 2008, 11:19 AM
Voodoochile,

I don't believe Lee is making them anymore.

I got mine almost thirty years ago and haven't seen a new one in a long time.

I have both the 36 and 44 in HP form.

A good machinist should be able to convert your mold to a HP version. Lee Conical Molds
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/conical.jpg
Ruger Old Army
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690384
Remington
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690382

Does look like the hollow points are gone.

6Gun4Fun
September 20, 2008, 12:23 PM
I think he's looking for the hollow point version of Lee 456-220-1R

RadioTech
September 20, 2008, 12:26 PM
I have a Pietta 1858 Remington replica and used it last year to kill a 126 pound buck at 25 yards. The round ball broke a rib going in and going out, went through both lungs in between.
I have an extra cylinder from Cabela's and it isn't step drilled as the original and will hold 45 grains of powder, I use Pyrodex with an Ox Yoke patch under the ball.
I'd say yes, give it a try if legal. Work up a load and practice.
Brian

6Gun4Fun
September 20, 2008, 04:59 PM
I did a search on the internet trying to find a hollow point mold but couldn't find one. I guess I'm lucky to have found one when I did. I'll keep my eye open for them from now on though.

Quickdraw McGraw
September 20, 2008, 05:13 PM
I live in Pennsylvania and I usually carry a rifle but during some drives I go through some pretty heavy thickets and carry my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag.

However this year, I was thinking I would take the ole 1858 Remmie with me. Got my booklet that comes with my license. Wanted to be sure I was legal.

Sad news for me - ". . . muzzleloading long guns of any type, 44 caliber or larger, or a muzzleloading handgun 50 caliber or larger . . .".

Guess I'll reload some ammo for the RSP 44, damn state laws! :cuss:

Quickdraw McGraw
September 20, 2008, 05:14 PM
dad burn computer!

Quickdraw McGraw
September 20, 2008, 05:16 PM
dang it

Quickdraw McGraw
September 20, 2008, 05:28 PM
Oh crap!

Having a rough time of it!

6Gun4Fun
September 20, 2008, 07:12 PM
They won't let me use my Old Army in Ohio unless I have a straight walled cartridge. So I bought a R&D conversion cylinder.

arcticap
September 21, 2008, 01:28 AM
There's ways to convert a bullet into a hollow point. For instance, there's a hollow pointer attachment for the Bonanza case trimmer that uses a drill. The bullet would simply need to be lightly inserted into a brass case to center and hold it straight in the device.
TC has a kit with a set of punches to aid the expansion of round balls.
Or just slicing a cross or indenting a small cavity into a bullet with a sharp object could help it to expand better at lower velocity.

Voodoochile
September 21, 2008, 09:28 AM
I remember those tools arcticap but honestly I've never had seen any that could keep the bullet consistent on the target.

I'll stick with the soft lead conical, it does expand decently on it's own just not as violently as a hollow will.

amber69lynn
January 25, 2009, 05:55 PM
Voodoochile: I just saw a new one on ebay of all places.

I have one that I have had for years and they work great and I actually get the same accuracy out of mine as a round ball and more to the point of aim as it is a heavier bullet and will print higher on the target. Using a round ball it prints about 4 inches low at 25 yards, and with the conical it is almost exactly where I am aiming in my 58 remmy.

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