Audit: ATF lost 76 weapons, classified laptops


PDA






30 cal slob
September 17, 2008, 08:54 AM
bwahahahhahahahah.

and they have the gall to bust our balls for sloppy record-keeping.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080917/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/lost_weapons

Audit: ATF lost 76 weapons, hundreds of laptops

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
47 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping.

Thirty-five of the missing handguns, rifles, Tasers and other weapons were stolen, as were 50 laptops, the internal audit found. Two of the stolen weapons were used in crimes.

The audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine found "inadequate" oversight of weapons and laptops resulted in "significant rates of losses" at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"It is especially troubling that that ATF's rate of loss for weapons was nearly double that of the FBI and DEA, and that ATF did not even know whether most of its lost, stolen, or missing laptop computers contained sensitive or classified information," he added.

In a Sept. 10 letter responding to the audit, ATF acting Director Michael J. Sullivan said his agency "agrees or partially agrees with most of the recommendations."

"We are revising our procedures of reporting losses of weapons or laptops," Sullivan said.

The audit looked at ATF's inventory of weapons, laptops, ammunition and explosives between Oct. 1, 2002 and Aug. 31, 2007.

It found that ATF lost three times more weapons each month than it had in a similar 2002 audit by the Treasury Department, which used to oversee the agency. It also lost 50 times as many laptops as reported in the earlier audit.

Of the 76 weapons, 35 were reported stolen, 19 lost and 12 missing from inventories, investigators found. Of the 418 missing laptops, 50 were stolen, 8 lost and 274 could not be found during inventory. Another 86 laptops were unaccounted for because ATF had either destroyed or lost documents showing where they were, the audit concluded.

Two weapons reported stolen were used to commit crimes. In one instance, a gun was stolen from an ATF car parked outside the agent's home and later used to shoot through the window of another residence, the audit found. In the other, a stolen ATF gun was taken from a burglary suspect.

Additionally, ATF employees did not report 13 of the 76 lost weapons, or 365 of the 418 missing laptops, to internal affairs as required. ATF officials also did not report much of the lost equipment to the Justice Department.

Investigators could not conclude what was on 398 of 418 missing laptops — except that few were encrypted. That means any sensitive material on the laptops could have been exposed.

Moreover, "we found that ATF did not regularly attempt to determine whether the lost, stolen or missing laptop computers contained sensitive or classified information," the audit said.

But few — only 18 of 7,500 — ATF laptops were authorized to hold classified information.

Compared to weapons loss rates for the FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration, the ATF misplaced almost twice as many guns. The audit found that the ATF lost .52 weapons per 1,000 employees, compared to .29 at the FBI and .28 at the DEA.

Fine's investigators concluded there were proper controls and oversight of explosives in ATF's possession, and good security for ammunition. However, nine of 20 ATF field offices surveyed did not have proper accounting methods for ammunition.

___

On the Net:

The Justice Department's report can be found at: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/a0829/final.pdf

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Bubbles
September 17, 2008, 09:09 AM
I'm keeping a hard copy of this... just in case. :evil:

Drgong
September 17, 2008, 09:10 AM
what, there paperwork wasn't in order?

I know a few FFLs who will get a chuckle out of this.

strat81
September 17, 2008, 09:15 AM
I know a few FFLs who would get furious over this.

Who will police the police?

romma
September 17, 2008, 09:18 AM
If I owned a gun shop, I would hang this article right next to where they audit the books...

KiltedClaymore
September 17, 2008, 09:32 AM
Lawl

foghornl
September 17, 2008, 09:34 AM
Time to do to the "ATF" or whatever their initials are THIS week what they do to FFL's that have 'lost' a firearm...


CLOSE THEM DOWN...PERMANANTLY


So tell us, "Maximum Mike" Sullivan, just exactly how well YOUR organization performs on record keeping.

Perhaps you should forfeit YOUR job.

Anyone else remember the Leatherman tools with "Always Think Forfeiture" on them passed out to ATF agents?

Borch
September 17, 2008, 09:49 AM
It's not totally outside the realm of possibility that a weapon could be stolen in a car theft or a burglary but the fact that many were just plain lost or missing is disturbing to say the least.

Only 2 were used in crimes where shots were fired. How many were used in crimes were there were no shots fired? Probably a hell of a lot more than 2.

Just another in a long line of ATF SNAFU's. It certainly seems that this agency more than any of the other federal LEA's just can't get stuff done right.

elChupacabra!
September 17, 2008, 10:18 AM
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Who watches the watchmen?

eflatminor
September 17, 2008, 10:19 AM
Ever ask yourself why we have all these Federal agencies in the first place? Do we really need an ATF, an FDA, an FTA, etc? I say no, we don't. The power of the marketplace combined with the ability of an injured party to sue is all that is required to "regulate" industry. Or, we can continue to waste billions of tax dollars on these inefficient and ineffective bureaucracies.

LaEscopeta
September 17, 2008, 10:31 AM
I usually don’t go for the BATFE bashing, but this recently closed thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=393511

… is funny and makes a good point.

Every ask yourself why we have all these Federal agencies in the first place? Do we really need an ATF, an FDA, an FTA, etc?Google “Muckraker” or “The Jungle by Upton Sinclair” to see what the USA was like in the past, and the problems that led people to support the alphabet soup of Fed agencies we have now.

Standing Wolf
September 17, 2008, 10:36 AM
See? That proves it! Only the police and military are qualified to have guns!

Chrome
September 17, 2008, 11:14 AM
The NRA should hop on this like ugly on ape.

"Time to reform the ATF! Look at how inadequate the enforcement is. How can we enforce the existing gun laws without an efficient agency?" Of course the NRA would be helping the gov rebuild the ATF along the way.

Maybe in a weirder world we could have the ATF as a firearm owner friendly (read neutral) agency.

Later,
Chrome...

Kingcreek
September 17, 2008, 11:42 AM
Hey, at least they could account for the explosives!
time to shut down or redesign some of those bloated alphabet agencies.

eflatminor
September 17, 2008, 11:42 AM
The alphabet soup of Federal agencies does a piss poor job of protecting citizens compared to what a free market, a free press, and a civil law system can do...and it cost taxpayers dearly. 'The Jungle' does not justify what we have now.

Every ask yourself why we have a post office? Don't you think companies could deliver the mail? UPS and Fed Ex seem to manage. Why is there a FTA? Don't you think airline companies would work out flight paths and landing schedules to avoid their billion dollar planes crashing and the ensuing lawsuits? Name ONE Federal agency that performs it's function better than a free market. Just one.

Old Grump
September 17, 2008, 11:43 AM
I just think of Reds in Idaho and what they put him through and he wasn't even accused of losing guns. ATF by its own nit picking cross every T dot every I fill in every space no exceptions allowed should shut themselves down.

kingjoey
September 17, 2008, 12:07 PM
This is what happens when you have a gov't agency that runs with no supervision or accountability. They will become progressively more hypocritical and they won't show any remorse about it. If an FFL did this they would get shut down, I think the same should be done to the ATF, or at least the officers involved. It smacks of 'gross negligence'.

ranger335v
September 17, 2008, 03:31 PM
"WASHINGTON - The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping. "

No agency, organization or individual "loses" anything, especially valuables such as guns and laptops due to "carelessness and sloppy record-keeping". Those items were taken - stolen - by ATF employees.

And it's likey the supervisors know pretty well, if not exactly, who took them but are unwilling to hold the known thieves within their ranks accountable. After all, that sort of thing doesn't reflect well on the bosses and making waves is not a good career move within the government.

ranger335v
September 17, 2008, 03:35 PM
"WASHINGTON - The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping. "

No agency, organization or individual "loses" anything, especially valuables such as guns and laptops due to "carelessness and sloppy record-keeping". Those items were taken - stolen - by BATF employees. And it's unlikley the supervisors don't know pretty well, if not exactly, who took them but are unwilling to hold the known thieves within their ranks accountable. After all, that sort of thing doesn't reflect well on the bosses and making waves is not a good career move within the government.

The bosses obviously feel that since it has been revealed, it's better now to take a little heat for sloppy-record keeping than for having knowingly protected in-house BATF batmen thieves.

DoubleTapDrew
September 17, 2008, 03:47 PM
Who is going to raid the BATF, seize all their assets/firearms/computers, lay them out on the lawn and call the news reporters to come photograph their "haul", then drag them through court for a couple years?

Do we really need an ATF, an FDA, an FTA, etc? I say no, we don't.
Government jobs and bureaus are never eliminated, just reassigned.

eflatminor
September 17, 2008, 04:31 PM
Time that we the people demand they be eliminated, don't you think?

Guns and more
September 17, 2008, 04:36 PM
No agency, organization or individual "loses" anything, especially valuables such as guns and laptops due to "carelessness and sloppy record-keeping". Those items were taken - stolen - by ATF employees.
Indeed. Then ask yourself how some ended up in crime scenes?

dalepres
September 17, 2008, 07:14 PM
Seems to me that government officials should not be allowed to own, use, or otherwise possess guns.

Eyesac
September 17, 2008, 07:20 PM
Oh man, that's embarassing...

RancidSumo
September 17, 2008, 07:49 PM
I think Cavalry Arms should bring that up next time they have to deal with the BATFE to get their inventory back. (Or have they already got it back?)

yesit'sloaded
September 17, 2008, 08:00 PM
Assuming their stuff wasn't part of the stuff stolen.

TBeck
September 18, 2008, 08:51 PM
The irony must pinch a little bit. Treasury or Justice, it's the same old F-Troop.

dalepres
September 18, 2008, 08:57 PM
The irony must pinch a little bit. Treasury or Justice, it's the same old F-Troop.

That's not exactly accurate, :). Under Treasury, this would have gone unreported. There's not much hope for a change of attitude but there is hope they'll at least quit losing firearms to bad guys.

Kind of Blued
September 19, 2008, 01:15 AM
I'm surprised that there wasn't a complicated cover-up operation.

Things would be just fine if everybody's memory and the very existence of the ATF evaporated overnight.

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