Indiana CCW No Longer Valid for NICS Check


PDA






Route 66
September 8, 2003, 08:57 PM
Well I just got a bad news letter today in the mail. I hold a CCW permit in the State of Indiana. Doing so allows me to instantly buy a handgun or long gun at a gun shop or from a vendor at a gun show without going through the FBI background check.

The letter today from the ATF says that effetcive 10-1-03 the background check performed by the Indiana State Police no longer meets the requirements of the Brady Law. Therefore on and after 10-1-03 I will need to go through the FBI background check when I want to buy a handgun or long gun! That stinks! :mad:

If you enjoyed reading about "Indiana CCW No Longer Valid for NICS Check" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Standing Wolf
September 8, 2003, 09:15 PM
<sarcasm> I can't tell you how glad I am that the A.T.F.E. has finally assumed the onerous burden of enacting legislation! </sarcasm>

cordex
September 8, 2003, 09:18 PM
Are they sending this warning out to all permit holders?

Haven't received any such notification yet.

AZRickD
September 8, 2003, 09:25 PM
What is the rationale?

Any links?

Here is on BATF page on the matter dated 1/10/02.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/bradylaw/permit_chart.htm

Scroll down to Indiana and note that it lists " Personal protection and hunting and target permits qualify."

Rick

El Tejon
September 8, 2003, 10:29 PM
Route, alright, which dealer told you THIS?

Route, could you send me a copy of the letter:

Law Office of Kirk Freeman
225 Main Street, 2nd Floor
P.O. Box 1132
Lafayette, Indiana 47902-1132

TIA for your help.:)

MPFreeman
September 8, 2003, 10:35 PM
Letter in the mail? What? Sender name?

Scan that letter and post it here.

Gray Peterson
September 8, 2003, 10:40 PM
According to Packing.org postings, the reason is that the Indiana State Police told the ATFE that they would only consider state law in terms of denying someone a LTC, not both state and federal. Therefor, the ATF will not give Indiana LTC's an exemption anymore.

MPFreeman
September 8, 2003, 10:44 PM
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/15308/

Route 66
September 8, 2003, 11:23 PM
My letter from the BATF, Wsahington, DC dated September 2, 2003, in oart has the following paragraph..........

"Recently, the ISP informed ATF that although they will continue to conduct NICS checks on all applicants for licenses to carry handguns, effective October 1, 2003, the ISP only will apply state law in determining if a license should be denied. Accordingly, licenses may be issued to persons prohibited from posessing firearms under Federal law. Therefore, effective October 1, 2003, Indiana licenses to carry handguns will no longer qualify as alternatives to the NICS background check required under the Brady Law. This means that starting October 1, 2003, an FFL must contact the FBI to conduct a NICS check on all purchasers, including those posessing an Indiana license to carry a handgun."

:banghead:

hilljack22
September 9, 2003, 12:57 PM
This morning, one of the guys that I work with that has an FFL showed me the letter. It might just be going to FFL holders.

Not very happy about this one...

Route 66
September 9, 2003, 01:31 PM
Another item from the letter I forgot to mention is the added check if the buyer does not have a CCW. In those cases the FFL will have to contact the FBI for the NICS check and contact the Indiana State Police for the state requirement! How about that? Why did the Indiana State Police decide to change? Is this political or are they trying to save cost? How different can the federal requirement be from the state? :fire:

cordex
September 9, 2003, 01:59 PM
Just sent an email to ISP. Will post the response here.
I've been hearing a lot of chatter about a change being made by the Indiana State Police to the licensing requirements which has given the BATFE cause to no longer recognize a valid Indiana pistol permit in place of having a NICS check run at the time of purchase.
Is this rumor accurate?
What caused the change?
Are there any plans for addressing this oversight?

Thank you,
***

garrettwc
September 10, 2003, 12:59 PM
Any response on this from the ISP?

Has anyone thought of contacting the state attorney general's office?

The following are some questions I would have:

1. Is ISP acting within the law? Does the Indiana Code specify what types of checks are done?

2. If this implies that ISP will only check records in the state of Indiana, can a prohibited person from another state establish residence and get a CCW from Indiana? If so does this then make the state a haven for illegal activity related to firearms?

3. Dependent on the answer to #2 above, will this lead to other states no longer recognizing the IN permit?

cordex
September 10, 2003, 01:05 PM
Any response on this from the ISP?
Not to my email yet.
State police website is:
http://www.in.gov/isp/

Contact page:
http://www.in.gov/isp/contact/

Hey Kirk ... what's the word on this?

Update:
A friend ran by a local gun store and sent me this email:
I stopped by PSS [Plainfield Shooter's Supply] this morning. Everything you have heard is correct - and more. They also had a 15 minute discussion regarding this issue on the Garrison Radio Program this AM.

Basically, ATF will nolonger accept CCW permit in lieu of Federal Instant Check. Thus, all purchases after 10/1 will need to be called in. Even if a person has purchased many items w/no problem in the past, the Feds can still delay or deny approval.

Two bigger problems also will exist:

1. Because the state check is no longer acceptable to the Feds, all non CCW purchasers will need to have two phone calls made in the future. One to the Feds and one to the State for approval numbers. Even if the state gives approval, the person will be denied if the feds give a denial.

2. State Police have now decided that they will only be available for call ins on Monday through Friday (morning through 5PM). Thus anyone who attempts to purchase a handgun after 5 pm Monday through Friday or on the weekend will not be able to because there will be nobody there to give approval. This will basically eliminate all handgun purchases at gun shows in the future for NON CCW customers. PSS believes that gunshows will probably be greatly hurt after this one in October because non CCW people will not be able to purchase and all others will have a significant slow down in the processing.

According to some, this is a payoff to the Lake County Indiana legislators who attempted to push through crazy gun laws in the last session and didn't make it. The state gov't is now doing an end run to get the job done.

Even if the law is changed in the future, or if the State Police change their mind sometime in the future, there will still be that limbo period between Oct 1 and that event where the CCW will not be acceptable to the Feds. This will probably give the Feds the excuse to not allow CCW approval for another four years to insure that one issued during that period does not slip through.

IT NEVER ENDS!!!!!

El Tejon
September 10, 2003, 01:22 PM
cordex, word came down from O'Bannon's office to all admin agencies in the twin warehouses of bureaucracy to save money where they could. E.g. Judges of all counties received notice from IDOC (Indiana Department of Correction) that they could no longer receive DOC committments for lower substance offenders (OWIs, dope, etc.).

While I have better getting better offers on HSOs, et al, all agencies are scrambling to save money from A&TC to the Port Authority. Why ISP did THIS, I do not know.

Time to generate some heat, gentlemen, so that ISP and the General Assembly sees the light!:)

cordex
September 10, 2003, 01:42 PM
Thanks for The Word.

Indiana Senate/House contact info:
http://www.in.gov/legislative/contact/index.html

Light the fires.

Recently the Indiana State Police have gone out of their way to establish a policy that causes trouble for those looking to buy a firearm. They have changed their policies on background checks to be incompatible with the BATFE's - thereby causing the handgun carry permit to no longer be accepted for bypassing an additional NICS check as well as creating a new background check requirement. What this means is that anyone who wishes to buy a firearm will be subject to two checks - a Federal NICS check, and a State background check (which can be skipped if the buyer holds a handgun carry permit). What's worse is that the ISP have decided to change the hours they do business to 9am - 5pm Monday-Friday which means that someone who goes to a gunshow on a weekend, or a gun store after 5pm _can not buy a gun_.

I'm not sure what can be done from a legislative standpoint, but I'm not sure who else I can turn to. Please take some time to look into this and - if possible - work to fix it.

Thank you,
******

emc
September 10, 2003, 01:46 PM
El Tejon is correct. As an additional point, the restrictions that this creates for sales at gun shows will also occur at any estate auctions.

I cannot help but suspect that there are some other agendas working behind the scenes here, and the request for expense reduction measures certainly plays into them. :scrutiny:

txgho1911
April 1, 2004, 04:29 PM
Does anyone have anything to add for updates to this issue.
Last thing I have heard was certain documentation requirements where not met on time my the dearly departed gov office. This may be true or it was partly the ISP. In any case this is something that can be fixed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Indiana CCW No Longer Valid for NICS Check" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!