Lead Ammunition in Jeopardy in Washington State!


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Ari
September 17, 2008, 06:21 PM
:cuss:

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4175

Lead Ammunition in Jeopardy in Washington State!

Wednesday, September 17, 2008


Please Stand-Up and Make Your Voice Heard!
The lead ammunition you use for hunting as well as target and competitive shooting will be banned from purchase, use and ownership in the state of Washington if the state's Department of Ecology has its way. Lead ammunition is a target of a series of recommendations in the "Lead Chemical Action Plan" prepared by the Department of Ecology.

The plan is open for public comment until Monday, October 6. The plan and information about submitting comments are available at: http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/swfa/pbt/leadcap/.

Lead shot has been banned in waterfowl hunting. Most recently, California passed a law that prohibits hunters from using lead ammunition in areas within the range of the California condor. A symposium was held in June in Boise, Idaho about the effects of lead ammunition on wildlife and humans. Most of the speakers supported a ban on lead ammunition, regardless of the cost, performance, and availability of substitutes. The Department of Ecology plan is yet another effort to remove lead ammunition nationwide.

Please take the time to submit comments to the Department of Ecology and to Governor Chris Gregoire (D). Let the Governor know that there is no adequate substitute for lead ammunition and that any affects on humans and wildlife do not justify a ban as recommended by her Department of Ecology. Governor Gregoire can be reached by phone at (360) 902-4111, by fax at (360) 753-4110, or click here to send email. The Governor can also be reached by U.S. Mail at: Governor Chris Gregoire, Office of the Governor, P.O. Box 40002, Olympia, WA 98504-0002.

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Colt46
September 17, 2008, 06:25 PM
Already we can't hunt with lead ammo in the range of the California Condor because of lead ingestion that is being pointed at hunters. Their range is a pretty significant portion of the state.
It was forced upon us by the DFG. Who know who was pressuring them. They caved and we are screwed.

BigBlock
September 17, 2008, 06:56 PM
How do they know what you're shooting under a copper jacket? ;)

Already we can't hunt with lead ammo in the range of the California Condor because of lead ingestion that is being pointed at hunters.
Yep, I bet that big ugly bird is going around finding all the lead bullets that are just freely laying on the ground and eating them. :rolleyes:

spencerhut
September 17, 2008, 07:05 PM
How do they know what you're shooting under a copper jacket?

Easy. The California DFG has given game wardens the right (and the direction) to confiscate and tear apart every single round of ammunition you are carrying if they determine you are hunting. There is no provision to reimburse you if all they find is pure copper. Game wardens I have spoken to have responded in two ways:

#1 I have no way of telling copper from lead and won't even try. What am I a metallurgist? This is gun / hunter friendly game warden I know in Fresno County.

#2 I am going to be forced (yeah right) to take every round of ammo you have apart if I even think you are hunting with lead just to make sure. This guy is a tree hugging game warden that hates hunters in Madera County.

It's a toss up what you would get. They can even take apart your concealed handgun ammo -legally- and leave you defenseless. All nice a legal.

This is what happens when tree hugging hippies get appointed to the Department of Fish and Game.

I think we should shoot the damn deer with pure copper bullets and then sprinkle lead dust on the gut pile for the stupid Condors.

big_bang
September 17, 2008, 07:13 PM
This is what happens when gun owners' knee-jerk reaction to anything in California is, "Just leave that blasted state!"

Many undesirable things that start there end up spreading across state lines.

32winspl
September 17, 2008, 10:38 PM
I'll bet that there a million + pounds of lead spinning at high speed around the wheels of cars in the state. They spin off the rim sometimes or get scraped off. Any thoughts?

GlowinPontiac
September 17, 2008, 10:54 PM
The lawmakers now know they cannot ban guns so they are doing everything in their power to ban the ammunition. If we cant shoot lead then whatever substitute is used will cause ammo prices to increase by 300% at the minimum. Only the rich will be able to defend themselves or enjoy the sports of target shooting and hunting.

Maybe we should take away all their car batteries and see how they like trying to get to their office to write these stupid laws when their cars wont start.

BigBlock
September 17, 2008, 11:11 PM
Easy. The California DFG has given game wardens the right (and the direction) to confiscate and tear apart every single round of ammunition you are carrying if they determine you are hunting.

So I take it they can't check your plinking ammo? Only if you are hunting?

big_bang
September 17, 2008, 11:15 PM
they can't check your plinking ammo?
That is correct. Lead ammo is only illegal to possess while hunting. Any other legal use is fine for lead ammo.

MFC Bastion
September 17, 2008, 11:44 PM
Wrote to Governor Gregoire in protest.

.38 Special
September 17, 2008, 11:53 PM
This is what happens when gun owners' knee-jerk reaction to anything in California is, "Just leave that blasted state!"

Many undesirable things that start there end up spreading across state lines.

This is exactly right. I am only surprised that no one responded to the OP with "Move out of commie Washington!!!" or whatever the pseudo clever name will be.


I'll bet that there a million + pounds of lead spinning at high speed around the wheels of cars in the state. They spin off the rim sometimes or get scraped off. Any thoughts?

The theory is that the suicide birds are eating gut piles contaminated by lead ammo. The theory is suspect, although not by anyone making laws. At any rate, lead wheelweights are being phased out country wide and all weights will be zinc or some other substitute by, IIRC, 2011. Within our lifetimes lead will likely be classified with asbestos and DDT and will be essentially unavailable. And the "You guys just need to leave that state!" folks will still not get it.

Ben86
September 18, 2008, 12:10 AM
Left wing idiology at its worst. .22 ammo is a staple of gun owners. And this also opens the window to a loss of rights with other fire arms.

My God the lead .22 long rifle round is one of the oldest cartridges. How in the world did those condors survive all these years. I'm sure led pellets look equally delicious. Aren't condors preditary? Liberalism is mental disorder. They latch on to fake problems and cause a mental epidemic to further their social change. I will be sure to tell them what I think about this.

Soybomb
September 18, 2008, 02:38 PM
How do they know what you're shooting under a copper jacket?

will be banned from purchase, use and ownership in the state of Washington
No doubt you could slip it by while actually shooting but the important part is the sale of lead ammo being banned.

Ben86
September 19, 2008, 03:50 AM
I emailed them, told them what I think and explained key points: condors eat large carcasses such as deer and cows, deers and cows are not hunted using lead .22 ammunition for instance. This might be in a rabbit carcass that a condor may very well skip over.

Also lead ammunition has been around for many many years yet somehow the condors have still survived. Banning .22 long rifle ammo would be a great disservice to gun owners who use it for practice, varmint and small game hunting. There is no alternitive. There was a fmj .22 long rifle bullet developed during WWII but it is long gone.

They emailed me back claiming that this measure will not ban lead ammo. What a load of crap:

"Thank you for sending in your comments on the Draft Lead CAP. There is no proposed ban on lead ammunition in the Draft Lead CAP. We would like to work with hunters and shooters to promote non-toxic alternatives to lead without negatively affecting hunting or shooting areas.

Please take a look at the focus sheet we prepared about lead ammunition and the Draft Lead CAP. I've attached the fact sheet to this email or you can access it at:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/swfa/pbt/leadcap/ <https://owa.wa.gov/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https://owa.wa.gov/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/swfa/pbt/leadcap/>

Sincerely,


Holly Davies, PhD
Chemical Action Plan Developer
Washington State Department of Ecology
PO Box 47600
Olympia, WA 98504-7600
(360) 407-7398"

MD_Willington
September 19, 2008, 12:39 PM
hmmm, someone from Cali just pointed this out, most ranges don't or won't let you shoot non lead ammo unless it is frangible stuff.

Also point out to the brilliant PHD above, the tungsten nyclad ammo they point to, it is ILLEGAL for us common folk to use as it is AP

GrizzlyGraves
September 19, 2008, 01:48 PM
Whenever these enviro-fascists say they "promote the use of alternatives" what they truly mean is they will "take what we have and make us use the stuff they get kick-backs from by promoting."

Next they'll tell us that smoke from the powder is a significant contribution to global warming and hunters should switch to air rifles and only shoot at foam targets made from corn starch. :banghead:

Henry Bowman
September 19, 2008, 01:49 PM
How about a law that says you have to bury (or carry away) the gut pile?

alde
September 19, 2008, 02:10 PM
How about a law that says you have to bury (or carry away) the gut pile?

That would just make too much sense. We can't Have that now, can we?

drgrenthum
September 19, 2008, 02:56 PM
hauling the gut pile would be a pita. If it is the gut pile infecting everything thing i must assume coyotes and everything else that eats on the pile must be an endangered species because of lead poisoning. For some reason though i dont think that is the case.

Henry Bowman
September 19, 2008, 04:55 PM
hauling the gut pile would be a pita. So would a complete ban on lead ammo. And to many, many more people.

If it is the gut pile infecting everything thing I suspect the proponents of the ban have not troubled themselves with such scientific details.

Ben86
September 20, 2008, 02:52 AM
Environ-mentalists use falsified statistics and junk science to further their social agendas. Find the holes in their arguement and throw a stick of dynamite in them. It's a constant battle my friends. It is the logical against the illogical.

oldfart
September 20, 2008, 01:54 PM
Here in Oregon we have a major range in serious trouble for - among other things - lead in the ground which is supposed to contaminate the groundwater.

Five or six years ago I read of a range back east that had been investigated by a local university to see just how much lead was in the groundwater. The results of the study - as I remember - indicated that the lead combined with oxygen to become lead oxide which was too stable to further break down. It penetrated only a few inches into the soil before it stopped, never reaching - at least in any great quantity - the groundwater.

Does anybody remember that study? I had no reason to remember it at the time so I promptly forgot it.

Knucklehead2
September 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
Dear Oldfart,
Your memory is still intact; I believe it was a century old military range they used in the study but consider my memory is suspect.
The results of that study and others did not influence the temporary closing of public ranges here in Pennsylvania; every public range is under going lead remediation/reclamation and safety matters. My closest public range closed for three months.
During the Condor versus lead issue in California, I read windmills were the number one killer of the Condors. Google ‘Condors and Windmills’ some good articles to read.

Ben86
September 30, 2008, 11:55 AM
I got another email from our brilliant phd. This time she is claiming that the "language" banning ammunition has been removed:

"This e-mail is to alert you to a correction in Ecology’s draft Lead Chemical Action Plan (CAP).



On page 233, Recommendation 9, stated:

“In areas where WDFW has required non-toxic shot, other non-regulated activities such as target shooting and shooting ranges should be prohibited from using lead shot.”



This language has been deleted.



This language was inadvertently left in the draft CAP from a previous draft and is not our recommendation. As we have stated, Ecology does not recommend a ban or regulation of lead in any type of ammunition beyond current law. Our recommendation is to work with WDFW, hunters and shooters in development of voluntary approaches to reducing harm caused by the use of lead shot. The inclusion of the language above was an oversight, and has been removed from the draft CAP, which is currently out for public comment.



Sincerely,

Kathy Vermillion

Dept of Ecology

360 407-6916"

A victory? I doubt it.

Kitchen_Duty
September 30, 2008, 02:22 PM
Yeah i got the same email. It seems almost too good to be true that we won this round. I mentioned in my return email that a ban of lead would remove all 22 from the market. We'll see what happens now.

-Kitchen

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