Best Bullpup Rifle?


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gvnwst
September 18, 2008, 08:58 AM
Hi there, i was wondering what your opinions on the best bullpup rifle is. There is no particular caliber i am looking for,

Thanks

Gvn

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skinewmexico
September 18, 2008, 09:08 AM
Steyr

gvnwst
September 18, 2008, 09:20 AM
Sorry, i forgot this in my title post, detail. Model as well as caliber please.

Tarvis
September 18, 2008, 10:42 AM
Although I don't have a bullpup, I've been drooling over a PS90 (5.7x28) for quite a while now. True, the sporter version removes the utility of design and doesn't fill the niche the P90 was designed for. At the same time, I think it's pretty cool lookin' and fires a cartridge that has zero recoil and is slightly better than 17 hmr so I've heard. It won't win any awards with the standard holo sight, but put an aimpoint on a tri rail version and you've got a pretty cool little gun; or at least I think so.

Aka Zero
September 18, 2008, 10:57 AM
P-90 seconded. 5.7x28 SBR bullpup super small. 50 rounds per clip. Companion pistol that fires the same round.
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

Walther WA2000. Designed as a sniper rifle. Around 3 feet long. Very accurate, very expensive.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm

Seen bullpup conversion of 10/22's and AK's. But those get my vote for the best.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 18, 2008, 11:43 AM
Barrett M82 A2.

Hon. mention to the Walther WA 2000. :)

everallm
September 18, 2008, 11:57 AM
Are you looking at bullpups OR bullpups you can buy....? NOT an exhaustive list

Bullpups you can buy

Steyr-Aug
MSAR (Aug clone)
Bushmaster M17S
FN FS2000
FN PS90
Kits for Ruger Mini 14
Kel-Tec RFB (eventually)


Ones you can't buy

British L85A2
French FAMAS
Israeli TAVOR
Singapore SAR21
Chinese QBZ-95
Iranian "Khaybar" KH2002
Polish "Bor"/"Alex" (sniper rifle in 7.62x51 or .338 Lapua)
Peru "FAD" (under development)
Russia A-91
Russia "Groza" OT-14 (9x39 and 7.63x39)

Probably the best one that didn't make it on political grounds

British EM-2

jburnett
September 18, 2008, 12:02 PM
I used to have a couple of AK bullpup variants... One was a Chinese one and the other was a Finnish Valmet... The Valmet was a model 82 I believe and in .223; it was a select-fire conversion by Hard Times Armory (there were less than 5 converted). The Chinese one was known as a Type 83 I believe and it was semi in 7.62x39. Both worked tremendously well as one would expect of AK actions. I kick myself EVERY day for selling the Valmet, more due to its rarity than a joy of shooting it. :D

I've also owned a couple of AUG's; one a Fleming conversion to full-auto. I never can remember having any problems out of them either other than finding magazines...
-J.Burnett

gvnwst
September 18, 2008, 08:32 PM
Are you looking at bullpups OR bullpups you can buy....?


Both, the best one i can buy (cahmbered round, accuracy, reliability, ergonomics, ect)
and the best one overall in your personal opinion.

Afy
September 19, 2008, 08:16 AM
Keppler Sniper in what ever caliber you desire..

Cohibra45
September 19, 2008, 08:24 AM
Since this is an exercise in the fanciful, I vote for the Tavor in multi calibers/barrels that are available in the AR/AK. To me that would be a great rifle!!!:D:D:D

Cesiumsponge
November 30, 2008, 09:02 PM
Here's one of those rare .22LR bullpups, an IWD SG2000.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/3063649831_3f41902221.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/impulselabs/3063649831/)http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/3063651065_2d5ce8542c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/impulselabs/3063651065/)

MSAR STG-556 which I find to be MUCH less bulky than the FN FS2000 thing. I compared it side-by-side with a mint, original Steyr AUG and the fit and finish on the MSAR's receiver is better and anodized (not painted). The stocks on the original AUGs don't have the flashing on the plastic stock and the MSAR has a little bit of it (most which is ground off though). The only issue is the takedown button is a little stiff and requires some breaking in.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/3063651663_b8b1139cdd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/impulselabs/3063651663/)http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/3064491822_cf6b714495.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/impulselabs/3064491822/)

woodfiend
November 30, 2008, 09:13 PM
Top 3 You CAN'T buy:

1. Steyr AUG
2. Israeli Tavor
3. FAMAS

Top 3 you CAN buy:

1. Microtech MSAR
2. FN FS2000
3. FN PS90 (In my opinion, not really a full on rifle, but still deserves mention.)

Loomis
November 30, 2008, 09:26 PM
british SA80

223

basically a bullpup version of the AR-18, I believe...could be wrong on that though.

Cesiumsponge
November 30, 2008, 09:36 PM
You can still get the Steyr AUG if you're willing to pay market price for those that snuck in before the importation ban.

Also according to several threads on a forum catering to AR15s, Steyr is in the process of tooling up for a stateside AUG after seeing the success of the MSAR and (name escapes me) another company making AUG clones. Supposedly several test runs have been made and they're citing a late December release.

If they indeed follow through, any Steyr AUG owners should probably sell their AUGs while it's worth money.

BullpupBen
November 30, 2008, 09:41 PM
British EM-2: best looking of any bullpup and fires a well balanced round.

Although I feel any well made AUG-style rifle beats out any other rifle for use on the battlefield

Storm
December 1, 2008, 11:18 AM
I own a Bushmaster M17S, PS90, and MSAR STG 556, and I would recommend any one of those.

gvnwst
December 1, 2008, 12:06 PM
Well, by now, the thread is usless, as i have bought a AR-15, but the number of opinions is great.

I would love a PS90 SBR, but i can't afford one right now...

LaEscopeta
December 1, 2008, 12:51 PM
...MSAR and (name escapes me) another company making AUG clones. TPD AXR?

http://www.tpdusa.com/proddetail.php?prod=Liberty_Rifle

Don't know if they have shipped any actural rifles yet.

ccsniper
December 1, 2008, 12:56 PM
i hate bullpups, the whole idea of a chamber being under my face kinda freaks me out. that said if i had no choice, AUG

gvnwst
December 1, 2008, 12:58 PM
How is it so much worse than a round in FRONT of your face? If it blows bad, you will be just as badly hurt.....

WardenWolf
December 1, 2008, 01:04 PM
Because often when there's a problem, it affects just the area immediately around the bullet instead of back 6 inches. For example, a case head separation that causes a nasty vent out the ejection port.

gvnwst
December 1, 2008, 01:04 PM
Thats true.

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
December 1, 2008, 07:55 PM
Although if there was a catastrophic failure of the bolt like say the lugs sheared off then you don't need to worry about having your face impaled.

Loomis
December 1, 2008, 10:01 PM
Nah. You guys got it all wrong. THe worst thing about bullpups is the trigger being too far away from the hammer.

Cesiumsponge
December 3, 2008, 08:09 PM
Bullpup triggers don't necessarily -have- to be bad. I think the majority of bullpups come from a military background so the trigger pull isn't paramount. Most of the linkage used is spongy because the linkages aren't stiff enough for one reason or another, or it simply rubs up against too much stuff. The trigger pull on the MSAR is less than desirable, but livable.

The trigger on my SG2000 bullpup is better than every trigger I own except a Geiselle DMR two-stage on an AR lower (which was a $280 investment). Sub-1MOA results are typical at 100 yards. Target from last week. I've had better weeks too (lower right grouping is a freak anomaly and doesn't really count)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3070058722_d074e4da4e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/impulselabs/3070058722/)

THE MACHINIST
October 21, 2009, 02:07 PM
Romanian akm.............

Babarsac
October 21, 2009, 02:12 PM
None for me since I'm a lefty and MSAR's stuff is way out of my price range.

H2O MAN
October 21, 2009, 02:14 PM
I like the looks of and what I've read about the Kel-Tec RFB.

http://i36.tinypic.com/29zy93k.jpg

http://thefirearmblog.dreamhosters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/rfb-762sd-2238-1.jpg

dom1104
October 21, 2009, 05:07 PM
wow.


I mean, to each his own but, that kel-tec looks REALLY cheap in that photo.

big ol mold line, bunch of allen headed nuts holding it toghether... I dunno bout you but that looks UUUUUGMO to me.

NCsmitty
October 21, 2009, 05:21 PM
The NRA publication, American Rifleman, has a test of the 308 Kel-Tec RFB in the new Nov issue. They state that it is completely ambidextrous for use. The only things that they didn't like was the cheek weld on steel, became uncomfortable after prolonged shooting and the cover heated. They also feel it would be safer with a loaded-chamber indicator. The magazine must be removed to check for a loaded condition through the mag opening.
It's a compact powerhouse.


NCsmitty

CobraGT
October 23, 2009, 02:40 AM
Got to try a Tavor a while ago, and man, was it SWEET! I'm saving up to buy one now (3 grand - OUCH!!)

Norinco Type 97 is the only other one I've had a chance to try out - not too bad, but not even in remotely the same league...

We don't really have any other options here...

earlthegoat2
October 23, 2009, 02:46 AM
They also feel it would be safer with a loaded-chamber indicator.

Of course. We all need more mechanical devices to make our rifles "safer". Might as well put an internal lock on it too. And that was in American Rifleman of all places too.


Nonetheless the Steyr AUG is probably the best.

General Geoff
October 23, 2009, 03:48 AM
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it in their lists, but I love my Walther G22. :)

gunnutery
October 23, 2009, 04:08 AM
Hmmm, I've been drooling over the FN FS2000 and the Kel Tec RFB. If I could afford either I'd get one of them. I like that the FS2000 can accept AR mags. I'm also glad that the RFB does not use a proprietary mag.

woodybrighton2
October 23, 2009, 05:11 AM
The L85a2 is probably the best military bullpup going considering HK spent 4 or $500 on each one :eek:

its doing the buisness in Afganhistan and the end users are not complaining about it .

HK have even built a semi automatic version for the army cadets which would be legal to import but they won't sell it in the US because they hate you :D

everallm
October 23, 2009, 05:44 AM
Woody

Just to engender the whole sick as a parrot feeling, there's a chap on this side who's reverse engineered the L85A1 (without the whole melting furniture, cross bolt safety that breaks with a hard look etc) and will be providing 80% kits as well as wholly finished.

http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuilder/index.php?topic=6027.0

(You have to register to access)

45B@cav
October 23, 2009, 10:59 AM
I would say FS2000 for what you can buy. (just my oppinion) I shot a L85A2 at a range in Iraq traded my M4 with a British buddy for a few shots. LOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure the Tavor is incredible but I really enjoyed that L85A2.

Justin
October 23, 2009, 12:27 PM
Of course. We all need more mechanical devices to make our rifles "safer". Might as well put an internal lock on it too. And that was in American Rifleman of all places too.

In this case, the writers at American Rifleman are completely correct. With any of my rifles, be it an AR15 or a bolt-action hunting rifle, I can easily check whether or not there is a round in the chamber by drawing the bolt partway back to visually inspect the chamber.

With any of these rifles, I can do this with a loaded magazine. The RFB is a neat design, but the lack of including an easy way to check the chamber is a fairly major oversight. Even the FN FS2000 allows you to do this by lifting up the hinged cover at the back of the receiver.

Also, in competitive shooting circles, you must be able to demonstrate that your rifle is empty, be it through the use of a chamber flag (high power) or executing an "unload and show clear" in a practical event. With an AR, it's easy to insert a chamber flag, or draw the bolt back, lock it open, and present the rifle to the RO for a visual inspection of the chamber.

Being unable to easily ascertain the condition of the weapon seems like a no-brainer. Hopefully it's something that Kel-Tec corrects in the next iteration of the RFB.

woodybrighton2
October 23, 2009, 01:32 PM
everallam
but does it make a version of the long silly weapon.
now that would really ruin any AR shooters day and done properly with a free floated heavy barrel and a decent barrel send a lot of m14 owners back to the drawing board:D

General Geoff
October 23, 2009, 02:10 PM
Being unable to easily ascertain the condition of the weapon seems like a no-brainer. Hopefully it's something that Kel-Tec corrects in the next iteration of the RFB.

While I admit that I've never handled an RFB, from my understanding of the action, couldn't you remove the magazine, pull the charging handle back, and inspect the chamber from the mag well?

DoubleTapDrew
October 23, 2009, 02:45 PM
I like the Desert Tactical Stealth Recon Scout (http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/)for a compact accurate long range rifle.

everallm
October 23, 2009, 03:38 PM
M'mmmmmmm L86.......26" of barrel love....:evil:

IF it all comes together I'm looking at a finished L85 and then trying my hand at an 80% kit and building it as either an L22 or an L86.

Going to depend heavily on what the innards and gas system are, if it is a DI system then 26" barrels are relatively easy to get a hold of. If its a piston system using say AR-18/AR180 equipment or it's ilk then a lot more difficulty.

gvnwst
October 23, 2009, 06:28 PM
Wow...old thread...

Justin
October 23, 2009, 06:50 PM
While I admit that I've never handled an RFB, from my understanding of the action, couldn't you remove the magazine, pull the charging handle back, and inspect the chamber from the mag well?

Yes, but there's no way to leave the gun locked open in such a manner that anyone who looks at it can quickly ascertain whether the gun is empty with the bolt locked open. In order to check it, you have to handle the weapon, something that you can't do at any range that has been called cold.

Wes Janson
October 23, 2009, 11:02 PM
Yes, but there's no way to leave the gun locked open in such a manner that anyone who looks at it can quickly ascertain whether the gun is empty with the bolt locked open. In order to check it, you have to handle the weapon, something that you can't do at any range that has been called cold.

Lock the bolt open.

Set the rifle down on its side on the table.

Insert a chamber flag into the chamber.


What's difficult or different about this versus any other rifle? It's easy to tell if the bolt is back or not - look at the position of the charging handle. To check the chamber, just look at the bottom of the rifle. If the rifle is on a bench, it's lying on its side, so you lean over and look in.

I've been a range officer for years, and there are weapons just as difficult to check, if not moreso, than the RFB. The FS2000, which you cite as a better design, requires that a cover be lifting in order to even see into the rifle - an extra step that the RFB doesn't require. And from personal experience with both, I can attest that one does typically need to pick up an FS2000 to look downwards into the port to check the chamber.

Maverick223
October 23, 2009, 11:10 PM
Ancient thread...

I really like my M17s...extremely reliable, and a blast to shoot. The Desert Tac. SRS is pretty fun, but the M17s get my vote. I hope to expand the bullpup sector of the collection pretty soon. :)

Girodin
October 24, 2009, 03:38 AM
I am a fan of the Micro tech stg 556. It feels better in my hands than the FS2000 does. It is obviously just my opinion but it looks sleeker and better to me as well. What I like about the FS2000 is that it is an ambidextrous design. I like the PS90 for what it is. I would like to get a chance to handle/shoot the RFB. On paper I really like it. It also purports to fix the last major flaw of the bullpup, the crap trigger.

woodybrighton2
October 24, 2009, 11:01 AM
everallm
Member
M'mmmmmmm L86.......26" of barrel love....

IF it all comes together I'm looking at a finished L85 and then trying my hand at an 80% kit and building it as either an L22 or an L86.

Going to depend heavily on what the innards and gas system are, if it is a DI system then 26" barrels are relatively easy to get a hold of. If its a piston system using say AR-18/AR180 equipment or it's ilk then a lot more difficulty.


I hate you:banghead: :D
you could with a little work turn out an L86 as a proper DMR rather than something that rusts away in the armoury as nobody bothers or they were cut up into carbines

snakeman
October 24, 2009, 12:35 PM
msar hands down

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