Ray Schoenke pulls a Zumbo


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WhisperFan
September 18, 2008, 10:45 AM
Ray Schoenke, the president of the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) has released a radio ad in Southwestern Virginia. In this ad he says that - to him, the protection of the 2nd Amendment and of gun ownership is very important to him. Then he goes on to say that BOTH John McCain and Barak Obama will protect those rights.

He goes on to talk about jobs, and the economy.

Didn't Obama openly support the 'right' of DC to pass it's own laws, just as he supports Chicago's handgun ban? He has said that he supports a new AWB since the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 has ended. He wants to outlaw (at a Federal level) concealed carry. How can any of these things be considered being 'gun friendly'?

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rantingredneck
September 18, 2008, 10:46 AM
This ad is also running in NC, heard it for the first time on my drive to work this morning.

Isn't AHSA basically a sham when it comes to 2A rights?

Bubbles
September 18, 2008, 10:59 AM
http://www.nssf.org/share/pdf/AHSA_Fact_Sheet.pdf

AHSA is an anti-gun organization with a PC name.

Mojo-jo-jo
September 18, 2008, 11:18 AM
AHSA is a sham. It's run by a bunch of former Brady Campaign/HCI lobbyists that founded a fake "pro-gun" front group to get some naive hunters to join the anti-gun cause by stating that they will protect hunting but are against "scary" "assault-weapons" and handguns.

AHSA is anti-gun to the core.

Ric in Richmond
September 18, 2008, 11:30 AM
Running on the rock stations in Richmond as well. Right along with the ads to sign up to vote on BO's websites.

AHSA needs to be shot down. Make sure your friends and family know it is a fraud.

Going to get UGLY from here on out....

Deanimator
September 18, 2008, 12:29 PM
Isn't AHSA basically a sham when it comes to 2A rights?
It's no different than if the Klan started a "civil rights" organization (which David Duke actually once did).

They'll dry up and blow away just like the "National Firearms Association" did in the late '80s. They had the same BoD overlap with fanatical anti-gun groups. Now most people don't know they ever existed. The same will happen with AHSA.

The odds are that you'll never even run into a supporter, much less a member. If you do, mercilessly bludgeon them with their own lies. Don't hesitate to humiliate him or her in front of others.

ilbob
September 18, 2008, 01:26 PM
We need to keep up the message that basically this group is actually anti so people who come across it won't be fooled.

Fleetwood_Captain
September 18, 2008, 02:10 PM
Or what about the "Freedom States Alliance", an anti-gun organization that wants to make states "free" from from guns. They also have a slick sister organization called "Gun Guys", which I guess is their code for "Anti-Gun Guys."

I'm not sure whether I'm shocked or awed by this stupidity...

http://www.freedomstatesalliance.com/
http://www.gunguys.com/

Mojo-jo-jo
September 18, 2008, 09:21 PM
They'll dry up and blow away just like the "National Firearms Association" did in the late '80s.

No, this one won't. By their own admission, their funding comes mostly from private contributions from their board of directors. These board members have long-standing ties to the most rabid anti-gun organizations and politicians in existence:

+ Ray Schoenke - Major benefactor of Handgun Control, Inc (now named the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence). and America Coming Together.

+ Bob Ricker - Former Policy Director of Democratic National Committee and advisor to the Presidential campaign of John Edwards. Yes, he did work for the NRA in the 1980's but has since denounced the organization.

+ Jon Rosenthal - Founder of Stop Handgun Violence.

... and a few other lesser-known activists.

They have a cash pipeline that extends all the way back to the Joyce Foundation (to which Obama served on the BOD, by the way--maybe that helps explain their Obama endorsement) and to George Soros.

This is the group the media goes to when they need a quote from "grassroots hunting and shooting organization" that supports "common sense gun control." That's the entire purpose of their existence--They are an "anti-NRA" that claims to be for "hunter's and shooter's rights," but have done nothing but support anti-gun politicians and causes.

bogie
September 18, 2008, 09:37 PM
Right... And you guys need to make sure something about this sham organization is printed out, and posted on the bulletin board at your local gun club and gun store.

Kim
September 18, 2008, 09:55 PM
Someone needs to run a radio ad telling people who this really is.

Standing Wolf
September 18, 2008, 10:12 PM
The most valuable slave is the one who forges his own leg irons.

Gunnerpalace
September 19, 2008, 01:58 AM
Pull a Zumbo....Get Zumbo'd.

BTR
September 19, 2008, 10:00 AM
Obama supported DC's total ban on using a firearm in self defense. On his campaign webpage he had posted (until a few months ago) a statement calling for a ban on semiautomatic guns and a federal ban on concealed carry.

6_gunner
September 19, 2008, 10:28 AM
This ad is playing in Indiana, too.

I've already used it as an opportunity to explain the true colors of the AHSA to a few people. Every RKBA activist knows that those jokers are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. We need to inform as many people as possible.

buzz_knox
September 19, 2008, 10:40 AM
Obama supported DC's total ban on using a firearm in self defense. On his campaign webpage he had posted (until a few months ago) a statement calling for a ban on semiautomatic guns and a federal ban on concealed carry.

We should start a campaign demanding that he publicly call for these bans, or we won't vote for him. That'll get the liberals attention and get the ball rolling for him to show his true colors again. ;)

Chuck Spears
September 19, 2008, 12:04 PM
You guys are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I'm forming my own island nation where I make the laws. I just need some investors.

the naked prophet
September 19, 2008, 12:18 PM
Ray Schoenke can't pull a Zumbo.

Zumbo was a gun writer who liked his guns, and thought that banning "assault weapons" was the best way to preserve his guns. When the gun community showed him the error of his ways, he understood that all guns are equal, and must be protected. He is now on our side.

Schoenke wants all guns banned, and is part of an organization whose aim is to ban guns, which disguises itself as a "moderate" pro-gun organization. He never liked guns, and never will.

There is no comparison. To try to compare the two is an insult to Zumbo, who is now one of us.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 19, 2008, 01:03 PM
Ray Schoenke can't pull a Zumbo.

And we have a winner... ASHA's sole purpose is to soften hunters up to the idea that some guns are bad and that if you get rid of the bad ones, you can keep the good ones, in this case, hunting rifles.

fspitzdorf
September 19, 2008, 01:18 PM
Running in Rural South Central Michigan too on the little local radio station WCSR out of Hillsdale. Hillsdale is also home to SAFR... I am surprised they haven't hammered them yet...

Zoogster
September 19, 2008, 02:05 PM
As others have stated ASHA is a sham. It is a fake pro-gun front. The creation of pro gun fronts by the other side allows them to argue both sides, and of course intentionaly lose by voicing a desire to 'compromise' (give up American rights and gain nothing) on the pro gun side.


In politics there is a number of such organizations on many topics. People opposed to something create fronts in favor of it, and then argue the case very poorly intentionaly, or on this issue are always in favor of 'compromise'.

If you can become the source of the information you are against, you can quickly discredit your own arguments, intentional add bad facts, and otherwise discredit your cause in a way that lends credibility to the other side.



I wonder when they will start suing on pro gun issues and then intentionaly losing and presenting poor cases and setting anti gun precedents. Think about it, then they could choose the jurisdictions most favorable to anti gun rulings, and argue thier case from a perspective that they know won't hold up in higher courts.

buzz_knox
September 19, 2008, 02:25 PM
ASHA's sole purpose is to soften hunters up to the idea that some guns are bad and that if you get rid of the bad ones, you can keep the good ones, in this case, hunting rifles.

Given that Zumbo's original blog entry called for hunters to distance themselves from "terrorist rifles" in order to preserve hunting rifles, it's more accurate to say that Zumbo pulled a Schoenke.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 19, 2008, 02:28 PM
touche', buzz.

ctdonath
September 19, 2008, 02:32 PM
The American Hunters and Shooters Association is not interested in hunting nor shooting -only in restricting the 2nd Amendment into oblivion.

Aguila Blanca
September 19, 2008, 03:01 PM
If I should somehow manage to hit the lottery, I think I'd set up my own sham gun control group, and see how much money I could siphon away from the Brady bunch while advocating truly "sensible" gun control laws. (Such as ... making it illegal to use a gun to commit a crime ... duh.)

The Bushmaster
September 19, 2008, 04:06 PM
Patooie on ahsa!!!

Larry E
September 19, 2008, 04:15 PM
Heard it in Montana too, and there are actually people who seem to think that since nobody's taken their guns yet that it's all just lies that it could ever happen. Sort of like saying that since I haven't been killed in an auto accident I'm not going to be.... :banghead:

Mannlicher
September 19, 2008, 04:56 PM
the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) has always been a scam. They pose as 'responsible and rational' gun owners. They just feel that guns should be regulated.....out of existance.
They fool a fool now and then, but not often.:what:

bogie
September 19, 2008, 05:09 PM
Actually, I'm guessing that some of Schoenke's propaganda worked on poor ol' Jim...

And it is working on other people. Gun owners, as a whole, are not very media-savvy, and they are very vulnerable to dirty tricks which are masquerading as "responsible gun ownership" or as "law enforcement." We need to counter this.

I'll say this again: This is going to take a few minutes of your time. So just suck it up, and give up a small portion of your life for RKBA.

Fire Mission - type this up, nice and simple, decent sized type, centered on a page, and put it on bulletin boards at your club, your favorite gun stores, ranges, taxidermy or meat packing places - whatever.

The American Hunters
and Shooters Association
(AHSA)
is a front for anti-gun organizations

You may get email or postal mail
from this group.

Please do not donate to them
or support them politically.

Their leadership has, in the past, actively supported
banning everything from .22 Short single shots through
your deer rifle or duck gun.

Do not support those who are against gun owners.

Sources:
http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=232
http://www.gunlawnews.org/asha.html
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/08/democrats-set-up-fake-organizations-to.html
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/08/democrats-change-registration-of-fake.html


(if you include the web sites, you'll probably have to go to some of them and copy the URLs in entireity)

matrem
September 19, 2008, 05:54 PM
Not sure that I've ever read anything that I could agree with more than bogie's post.

ACP230
September 19, 2008, 07:25 PM
The ads are also playing on stations in Wisconsin and, I think, in Michigan.
Knowing for sure is complicated because a lot of my listening these days in through Net streaming.

The ad starts with a big lie (about Obama believing in the 2nd,) and gets worse from there.

bogie
September 19, 2008, 07:33 PM
Right.

Now we can bitch about it, or we can do something to counter it.

Bitching is easy. But it accomplishes nothing.

Cutting and pasting those few lines into the program of your choice, centering the type, and printing a few copies is almost as easy. And will cost you a few cents. But if we stop a few folks from supporting that group, it will be worth it.

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