Did I do wrong with port of arms?


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Monkeyleg
September 9, 2003, 12:18 AM
Yesterday I was working the concealed carry table for our group. Across the aisle was what I thought was a DSA FAL clone, so I wandered over to check it out.

I pointed the muzzle up toward the ceiling and played with the bolt, safety, etc. While I was talking to the dealer, I held the rife at a "port of arms" position, with the muzzle pointed up at 45 degrees.

An older gentleman walked past me and in front of the muzzle, and said very loudly, "you're pointing that rifle at my head! Stop it!"

This is pretty much all anyone needs to know. (Other than the rifle was "stamped" as an HK41, but looked more like a clone, and carried a $2800 price tag).

So, who was right?

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Kaylee
September 9, 2003, 12:49 AM
Well.... was the rifle pointed at the guy's head? If so... I'd say he was.
4 rules don't go out out the window just 'cause you're in an official position or testing out an "unloaded" rifle from the rack.

counterpoint of course is that the other gentleman walked INTO an unsafe zone.. and should have known better. Still, I'd say it's common courtesy to raise the muzzle should someone be silly enough to stick their head in front of it.

Presuming, of course, that you don't intend to drop the hammer on 'em. :)

-K

S_O_Laban
September 9, 2003, 01:18 AM
Monkeyleg, I certainly sympathize with your feelings in this situation. Nothing hurts quite like an idiot pointing out an error on your part(rule#1) when he helped contribute to the unsafe situation. I think the bottom line is your responsible for where the muzzle is pointing at all times. Watch out for stupid next time around.:D

4v50 Gary
September 9, 2003, 01:18 AM
Port Arms is OK, but be aware of those around you. If the old man walked by such that his head crossed the muzzle, that's his stupidity. Still though, try for a higher angle closer to 75 degrees since 45 is a bit low.

BTW, the HK-41 is the HK-91 imported by SACO of Maine. I've got the HK-43 (223 version) that is SACO.

Telperion
September 9, 2003, 01:27 AM
You could always respond with the old line: I don't mean you any harm, but you're standing where I'm aiming my gun!

:D

C.R.Sam
September 9, 2003, 01:29 AM
Opinion...
Tho Port Arms is a standard rifle position...
Tis not truly safe, even in formation of your peers.
If the gent on your left is taller, he gonna have muzzle pointed at him.
Tho rare, there have been instances of platoon mates gettin shot.

Sam

Skunkabilly
September 9, 2003, 02:16 AM
In crowded areas I prefer indoor ready...makes me look tactical and I can keep it pointed at the deck.

Mikul
September 9, 2003, 04:27 PM
The only safe place to point a gun at a gunshow (usually) is into the floor behind the dealer's table. Staight up isn't bad, but if it goes bang, you never know where the bullet will stop. You may have checked the chamber three times and left the bolt open, but the guy to your left may not be able to see all of that. He may have walked into your muzzle, and if so, you were still rudely occupying six feet to your side with your muzzle direction.

In the end, there is no reason to NOT do it, and that's all there is to that.

TearsOfRage
September 9, 2003, 07:41 PM
The trouble with pointing it down is that many gunshows are held on a concrete floor. A shot downwards is sure to ricochet into someone, whereas a shot upwards may well go right thru the roof (if it ricochets off a steel rafter it could go any direction, not necessarily down). Sure it will come down somewhere, but probably not into a crowd, and at less than muzzle velocity.

DMK
September 9, 2003, 09:27 PM
I'd have to agree with TearsofRage. Up or at a very shallow angle upward is probably the least bad place to point a gun in a crowded place.

Unfortunately, there is almost no way to pick up a gun at a crowded gunshow with out initially sweeping somebody unless the booth happens to be one of the outside booths against a wall. Even then, you don't know what's on the other side of the wall.

Mikul
September 10, 2003, 11:22 AM
Good point about the concrete at some shows. Without that option I would try to point it at the next hardest wall or ceiling. A cinderblock wall will not stop a rifle round, but it will slow it down enough make it significantly less harmful. The last place it should be pointed is at another person or where another person is likely to appear.

keyhole
September 10, 2003, 11:41 AM
Many good ideas. The best one is to evaulate each area, and how would be the best way to carry. Outdoors, and indoors. Anyway you put it, unless you have a backstop, each round may be bouncing off of something hard.


Getting really upset, and berating someone on how they carry, is not correct.

The best way is to gently remind them, as they may not know. Start low, then escalate, if needed.:evil:

geekWithA.45
September 10, 2003, 02:32 PM
Considering that the gent walked into the zone, and port arms gives him a pretty vast opportunity not to, I'd not sweat it too much.

BTW, I just got back from Russia, and their troops are sloppy, sloppy with their gun safety. The predominant carry position for their AK's is slung, parallel to the floor, pointing forward, pretty much sweeping everyone in front of them.

SHE-IT.

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