25 06 VS 243 for Deer Rifle


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DKA
September 18, 2008, 10:45 PM
Does the 25 06 actually perform better all around than the 243 for Deer?

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rangerruck
September 19, 2008, 12:09 AM
yes, especially at longer distances; unless you are shooting some high b.c. 243 bullets, a 120 grain 25. has some great cruising speed... and very flat.

williamd
September 19, 2008, 12:45 AM
The 25-06 is a great round. So is the 257, loaded right. 243 is small for some deer sized game (ok, have at me!) and large for varmints. I own a couple of 243s but mostly go for the 25-06 or the 22-250 depending on what I am after. Even the 222, which is still one of the greatest rounds of all time, goes with me after coyotes.
I played 'find out' on coyotes a few years ago with many rounds from 222 to 375. What dropped them THERE? 22-250 or 220 Swift. Large calibres bored large holes and coyotes often traveled a long way with a hole all the way through. The 22-250 and Swift never exited the coyote. Yep, SX or Blitz bullets loaded to ~3300. Fast 243/244/6mm, even 25 and 270 were okay, but .... Yea, 223 was okay, too, but it ain't a 22-250.

Shawnee
September 19, 2008, 07:58 AM
As strictly a deer caliber, the .25/06 is a shade or two more than one needs, and the .243, .250 Savage, and .257 Roberts are better choices from strictly power and "user-friendly" standpoints.

However - the .25/06 is also probably the closest it gets to a legitimate (and very good) "varmint-deer-elk" caliber. That's true for the fellow who uses (due to choice or necessity) factory ammo and that is a hugely important fact.

It's even more true for the knowledgable reloader.

The .25/06 can be criticized for being a "long-action" caliber. But that's important to some people and not to others. It can be criticized for needing full-length (or longer) rifle barrels to produce its' benefits. But that's important to some people and not to others. It can be criticized for being quite loud with some of its' loads, and that is important.... especially in target shooting and varminting where many shots may be fired in a relatively short period of time. But target shooters and varminters can (and should) wear ear protection.
It can be criticized for having more recoil that the .243 or other quarterbores and that's important... especially when target shooting or varminting because recoil never brings anything positive to the party.

:cool:

NCsmitty
September 19, 2008, 09:01 AM
However - the .25/06 is also probably the closest it gets to a legitimate (and very good) "varmint-deer-elk" caliber. That's true for the fellow who uses (due to choice or necessity) factory ammo and that is a hugely important fact.

It's even more true for the knowledgable reloader.
And this is from Shawnee! :what:

The 25-06 Rem is a superb all-around caliber and is a noticeably better deer cartridge than the 243 Win. The extra powder capacity gives the 25-06 the edge against the efficient 243 case whether talking deer or varmints, especially when handloading. Actually, handloading the 257 Roberts to it's full potential gives a deer caliber that is superior to the 243 due to the ability to handle the heavier bullets with more powder capacity. Still, the 243 is a good varmint round as is the 22-250. :)

NCsmitty

ranger335v
September 19, 2008, 09:13 AM
"...the .243, .250 Savage, and .257 Roberts are better choices from strictly power and "user-friendly" standpoints."

Strongly concur, at least for whitetail. They simply aren't all that hard to kill guys!

And I agree that the 25-06 is slightly better. And that the .270 is better yet. And the -06 is better than the .270. A .300 is better than an -06. But, once we reach a level of sufficent power and trajectory, it's achedemic stuff anyway and doesn't mean much in the field.

The .243, .244, .250, .260, .257 and 7-08 are interchangeable white tail rounds.

JonB
September 19, 2008, 09:30 AM
+1

Yup. Never met a mule deer or Whitetail or even an antelope that my .243 was enough. And those were MT deer, not the dog sized deer found in some parts of the country.

You simply don't need a bigger caliber for deer. Any one of those listed would be a great deer rifle assuming good shot placement.

But if a 25-06 tickles your fancy, buy it. If the idea of having 'more than I need' is to your liking then the 25-06 would be a good choice. Or a .270, or a .308

browningguy
September 19, 2008, 10:02 AM
Yes the 25-06 is a better long range round for hunting. And I don't own one, but I do own a .243 and find it's an excellent cartridge. If I need more than a .243 then I go ahead and move up to a .270/7mm class cartridge.

Shawnee
September 19, 2008, 10:58 AM
"If I need more than a .243 then I go ahead and move up to a .270/7mm class cartridge."

EXACTLY !


Personally, my choice is the 7mm/08 , but solely because it is a short-action caiber and that helps with getting good eye relief with many scopes.
If I couldn't have a 7mm/08, I would simply get a .270 and go hunting.

If I were forced to have one caliber for "varmints-to-elk" it would be a .25 or .26 caliber for sure.

:cool:

skinewmexico
September 19, 2008, 11:02 AM
I think there is a better selection of high BC bullets for the 243, although I haven't tried the new Berger 25s. Made the greatest shots of my hunting career with a 25-06 though. I'd probably consider the two interchangable.

ColeK
September 19, 2008, 11:16 AM
Yup, the 25-06 is an excellent cartridge for deer and smaller game. It is better than a .243 Win at longer ranges.
I also like the .257 Roberts better than the .243 Win.


The Ol’ Man said, “Son, don’t brag to me about how long a shot you made. Brag to me about how close you got!!!”

El General
September 19, 2008, 11:18 AM
I know quite a few gentleman that cull for large South Texas ranches. These guys shoot lots of deer. often between 100-150 deer per season.

They all shoot .25-06

swampshooter
September 19, 2008, 11:33 AM
for game larger than yotes the .243 can't do anything that the 25/06 doesn't do better. on deer sized game it's hard to tell the difference between a 25/06 with 115-120gr. bullets and a .270 with 130's.

Shawnee
September 19, 2008, 11:51 AM
Swampshooter...

"for game larger than yotes the .243 can't do anything that the 25/06 doesn't do better."

:confused:

If the .243 drops the deer in its' tracks - neither the .25/06 nor any other caliber can "do better".

:cool:

Colek...

I think the .257 Roberts is one of the most underappreciated cartridges there is. It would be great if bullet and ammo makers put a bit more effort into coming up with really good varmint bullets/ammo for it. Personally, I think it could also be perfectly viable for Elk, too.

:)

Art Eatman
September 19, 2008, 11:53 AM
For open plains country, particularly on antelope, I guess I'd go with the .25-'06 over the .243. I'd be a tad antsy on using the .25-'06 as a primary elk getter. I guess my emotional limit would involve "circumstance" where I'd want a near-perfect situation.

Most of my 20+ .243 kills on Bambi were within a couple of hundred yards, so they were mostly neck shots. Most of these central Texas bucks dressed out around 100 to maybe 120 pounds at the largest. I took a very few 90-degree cross-body shots to the heart/lungs. None of the deer moved more than a few feet. Most just fell DRT.

Bigger deer, longer distances, and I know from experience that my '06 works to 450 yards. (Shrug).

Circumstance: Where you hunt, how you hunt, size of critter. I guess I either impose limits on what I'll try, or I'll set up for "worst case" scenario. :)

berettashotgun
September 19, 2008, 03:03 PM
Flip a coin.
Have both, and flip a coin to see which girl gets to go with me.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 19, 2008, 04:25 PM
Own both, and I'm of the camp that the .243 is every bit as good for deer.

But here's a .25-'06 for sale (smokin deal) if you need one:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392117

Excellent pronghorn/mulie, varminter, & interdiction rig.

cinteal
September 19, 2008, 07:45 PM
25-06 delivers more energy to the target than 243. The faster moving, heavier bullet has less drift in the wind on long shots. Ballistics are better than 243 in all regards.

243 is short action, but in hunting, the idea is that "one good shot". It would seem that one would not be too concerned with the "long" action of the 25-06, here. Recoil is greater from the 25-06, but it's still not a bone breaker. Again, "one good shot" applies to recoil.

If by some unlucky circumstance you are required to fire a follow-up, see paragraph one.

Neither is what we in LA (Lower Arkansas) would consider a brush gun. The 30 cals are better for that, even the 30/30. Ooops, knicked a small limb. Ooops, the 25 cals are flying off into space. I know it's an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

Dad hunts with a 300 win mag. He has NEVER had a deer run more than a few bolts. I started out with a 243 (after the 30/30 of course). I am a better marksman than the ole man. I became a better tracker because of the 243, too. I have seen an elk dropped in his tracks with a 243, and deer from my own rifle, but I think the 243 is better suited for varmint in its lighter bullet weights. You probably wouldn't want to snipe deer with a 50 cal, but can you really get too big?

Having said all that, my deer rifle is a 257 Roberts (AMEN, SHAWNEE!). Though they're fightin' words when my baby's on the range . . . the 25-06 does out perform the 257 Roberts.

Shawnee
September 19, 2008, 08:54 PM
Hi Cinteel...

"25-06 delivers more energy to the target than 243. The faster moving, heavier bullet has less drift in the wind on long shots. Ballistics are better than 243 in all regards."


Actually… that could be debated. Here is a comparison of the .243 95gr. BTHP at mv 2900fps and the 25/06 100gr. SP at mv 3200fps. – numbers taken from the Hornady ballistics calculator.

200yd. Velocity - 2410 for the .243 and 2473 for the .25/06
200yd. Energy - 1225 for the .243 and 1358 for the .25/06

But then…

300yd. Velocity – 2184 for the .243 but only 2150 for the .25/06
300yd. Energy – 1006 for the .243 and just 1027 for the .25/06

400yd. Velocity – 1971 for the .243 and only 1853 for the .25/06
400yd. Energy - 819 for the .243 and only 763 for the .25/06

The .25/06 100-grainer also starts a steeper drop than the .243 around 350yds.

Which bullet drifts less in the wind is determined by how fast a bullet sheds its' velocity - the faster it loses velocity the more vunerable it is to wind. With the ammo used above - that would be the .25/06.

For the above comparison I used bullets close in weight. Obviously - the .25/06 user can go to 120gr. bullets to get matching flight performance (or better) but the chief result is more blast and recoil. The deer will never know the difference.

The .257 Roberts was originally designed to launch the 87gr. bullet of the day at about 3000fps. and that, too, compares favorably to the performance of the 100-grainer from a .25/06.

All that is to say that where the .25/06 (finally) outclasses the .243 and .257 Roberts is with the heavier bullets intended to be used on Elk and larger game.

:cool:

the foot
September 19, 2008, 09:29 PM
For overall destruction capability, there is no comparison, the .25-06 is a flat shooting killing machine. But, if you're talking about overall capability, there are few whitetail hunting situations where the .25-06 is patently superior to the .243 or other calibers of that family.

NCsmitty
September 19, 2008, 10:17 PM
Nicely stacked Shawnee, as usual. Try comparing equal style bullets in each caliber for an honest evaluation for a change. You knew someone would call you on that one.

NCsmitty

Shawnee
September 19, 2008, 10:57 PM
Hi NCSmitty...

Instead of trying to flame me with your (usual) unsubstantiated accusations - how about you put up the numbers of the bullets you feel are "equal in style".

Go ahead - do it - here's your chance to put your numbers where your mouth is.

:)

Jst1mr
September 19, 2008, 11:09 PM
Why does this always turn into the same tiresome argument?

gvnwst
September 19, 2008, 11:16 PM
Mabye some people don't like the .243, or mabye this guy has something against Shawnee:confused:

jaholder1971
September 19, 2008, 11:19 PM
Use the right bullet and the animal won't know what hit them.

Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges and go for heart/lung shots. I've seen light varmint bullets blow up on a rib and heavy bullets not penetrate shoulders, making for long nights trailing, even with a tracking dog.

cinteal
September 19, 2008, 11:27 PM
Shawnee,

I go for the heavier bullet in 25-06and the Roberts. Sorry, just made that assumption that when we stepped up in powder, we'd step up in bullet weight, delivered energy, and trajectory. I own 3 243s that I love, but I'll have to stick with my original stance on the subject.

I did appreciate the informative post, though. And on that subject, would you happen to know how Hornady's ballistic software compares to RCBS'. I'm in the market. New job, new money, more time to tweak the rifles.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 19, 2008, 11:57 PM
Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges and go for heart/lung shots.

Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges WHEN go for heart/lung shots, but lighter is OK WHEN you go for neck shots.

Fixed it for ya. :) :)

t george
September 20, 2008, 01:33 AM
i like my 243 and i have shot a few deer with my uncles 25 06 and as far as i can tell all the deer that were shot were about the same amount of dead just a thought

Jst1mr
September 20, 2008, 01:39 AM
No name-calling, now! As per usual in these instances, there are multiple points to be made. I believe NCsmitty's reference to bullet style is legitimate, because the SP bullet style is significantly different than the BTHP. If, for instance, the SP bullet is subjected to greater Drag, and thence greater (velocity) Retardation (the constant for bullet shape being different in the drag formula), then the Energy at longer ranges will be affected dramatically, as it is the square of velocity that is used in the energy equation. Thus, small differences, especially as they affect velocity,(and at longer ranges) may certainly "muddy" the energy equation.
Of course, then the discussion would need to shift to which bullet does a better job of transferring its Kinetic Energy upon impact, which would involve another string of variables that could effectively allow anyone to argue both/either side of the fence.
Shall we say both are more than capable of getting the job done and are very close in performance...making the rifleman the more important figure than the rifle.
I keep thinking back to our poster "Caribou", who expertly gets his subsistence hunting done in Alaska with a .223 (and FMJ bullets) very efficiently, thank you, by being able to place the shot exactly where he wants it every time (or not taking it).

Shawnee
September 20, 2008, 07:59 AM
Hi Cinteel...

You're right, of course, that the heavier bullet takes the .25/06 into a different league from the .243. Below is the comparison of the Hornady 95gr. SST (flat-based spitzer) to their 120gr. SST. (By the way - in the first number set I did a typo - the data for the 95gr. bullet is for the "SST", not a BTHP.)


Velocity 200yds - 2410 for the .243 and 2519 for the .25/06
Energy 200yds - 1225 for the .243 and 1648 for the .25/06

Velocity 300yds - 2184 for the .243 and 2301 for the .25/06
Energy 300yds - 1006 for the .243 and 1375 .25/05

Velocity 400yds - 1971 for the .243 and 2093 for the .25/06
Energy 400yds - 819 for the .243 and 1138 for the .25/06

Both are capable cartridges for deer at 400yds or a tad more and the .25/06 is viable for deer a dram or two farther than that.

Obviously a good handloader could take the .25/06 well into .270 territory and there sure isn't a thing wrong with that except the increase in recoil and blast.

I just use the "ballistic resources" feature on the Hornady website....

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ballistics_calculator.php

....so I can't offer any information or comparison of any the regular software programs.

:cool:

NCsmitty
September 20, 2008, 09:19 AM
Instead of trying to flame me with your (usual) unsubstantiated accusations - how about you put up the numbers of the bullets you feel are "equal in style".
Shawnee, Please realize that I'm not "flaming" you. It is good natured banter between people who both can read and use ballistics charts and use them to our advantage. I only point out that you pick and choose loads to give your choice (usually the 243 Win) the advantage and have complimented you on this before. I have stated before, the 243 is a wonderful cartridge but this time, is at a ballistic disadvantage against the 25-06 because of the disparity in powder capacity. You of all people know that cartridges loaded to the same pressures with equal BC bullets, the cartridge with the substantially higher powder charge and velocity is going to out preform. There is nothing magic about ballistic formulas. The thread was 25-06 vs 243 as deer cartridges. All I ask is honest comparisons. In this comparison, the 25-06 provides a ballistic advantage, but both will do the job if the shooter is competent.
I'm here at this site to exchange knowledge and experience with those with the same love of firearms, but I do not run from a challenge.
Your a good man to correct your error on the ballistic chart.

NCsmitty

Shawnee
September 20, 2008, 10:19 AM
Hi NCSmitty...


"I only point out that you pick and choose loads to give your choice (usually the 243 Win) the advantage "

With all due respects to your noble self - that accusation is false.

In this case I chose bullets of similar weight - eg. deer bullets - in keeping with the topic.... not to "give advantage" to the .243 - but to compare fairly.

Since one cannot increase caliber and attain a similar BC without increasing bullet weight - in the case of the .243 vs..25/06, that moves the .25/06 from a deer bullet to a "larger-than-deer" bullet.

That's why I always class the .243 as a "varmint-to-deer" cartridge and the .25/06 as a "varmint-to-Elk" cartridge, and therein lies the substantial virtue of the .25/06 and its' advantage over the .243. That logic should be obvious in the second set of numbers I posted.

I'm always willing to learn, though, so I'll look forward to seeing which two bullets you deem an "equal" and fair comparison. So post away.

;)

ElToro
September 20, 2008, 12:58 PM
full disclosure. i have/shoot a .25-06 Win classic super grade with a 4.5-14 vxIII. i do not have a .243. i do not reload

i have shot about 1 dozen factory loads and my .25 will put winchester power points - the silver box stuff- inside 1 inch at 100. other factory stuff not so accurate. It has greased pigs and deer with no problems. i am saving up for a pronghorn hunt. i would feel confident in a elk hunt if the shot was right, but then my bro just whacked an elk with his 60 year old .300 savage (with some old ammo my grandpa gave him, against my reccomendation BTW,but he had shot several to sight it in and felt ok with the rifle)

the 25 is devasting on coyotes. really hammers the pelts

just buy whatever one you like best. they will both kill deer equally efficient

jaholder1971
September 20, 2008, 10:52 PM
Quote:
Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges and go for heart/lung shots.
Quote:
Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges WHEN go for heart/lung shots, but lighter is OK WHEN you go for neck shots.
Fixed it for ya.

When it's deer, I do heavy bullets and heart/lung shots, period. Light bullets are for prairie dogs and coyotes and i've never trusted a bullet to the neck to anchor a deer.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 20, 2008, 11:08 PM
You should try it - it works like a bolt of lightning. :)

cliffy
September 20, 2008, 11:33 PM
Using the WRONG bullet negates any caliber advantage. A 100 grain Speer Grand Slam in .243 Winchester will cleanly kill any DEER. A 100 Grain Nosler Partition in .243 Winchester will cleanly kill any DEER. Lesser bullets may or may not! Increasing caliber size and consequent recoil may create flinching and associated inaccuracy of aim. Yes, a lot of range practice will assist in handling bigger, stronger calibers, but a .243 Winchester, with its reasonably mild recoil remains KING for people who simply cannot dedicate a lot of time at the range. Still some range time is always required for sighting-in for reasonable accuracy and to re-enforce steadiness. I shoot two-to-three times a week at the RANGE. I fire upwards of 150 rounds a week. I hit my target precisely with regularity. I still opt for the venerable .243 Winchester because it feels just right! cliffy

mcooper
September 21, 2008, 12:10 AM
Either will work if you do your part.

Tarvis
September 21, 2008, 12:46 AM
For deer, either will work well. I don't know what you're hunting in or what kind of shots you have an opportunity to take, but for general deer hunting (call it 250 yards), either will do just fine and any benefits will not be realized until longer ranges. FWIW, I fired a 243 with a 22" barrel next to my buddies 7mm rem mag with a 24" or 26" barrel and the 243 was a lot louder, which may or may not be significant.

As far as comparing recoil goes, I get the feeling it's close enough that there's not enough difference to argue it.

Jst1mr
September 21, 2008, 01:18 AM
As far as comparing recoil goes, I get the feeling it's close enough that there's not enough difference to argue it.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! We here on THR have all been schooled enough to realize that ANYTHING above a .243 creates such a flame-throwing, shoulder-blasting, ear-splitting conflagration that it is simply unmanageable by any or all that would deem to pick up a rifle and hope to be able to actually make a decent shot ((Sorry, couldn't resist, fellas...relax, would ya!))

Sunray
September 21, 2008, 01:45 AM
"...the 25-06 is an excellent cartridge..." Yep. So is the .257 Roberts. The only issue with either of 'em is a widespread availablity of ammo. If you get off to Upperubberboot, hunting, only to find you left your ammo on the loading bench or kitchen table, you might not be able to find factory ammo in the Upperubberboot General Store. Up here, I can guarantee it.
"...a .243 with a 22" barrel..." That'd do it.
"...really hammers the pelts..." Change bullets if you're keeping the hides. Sierra makes a 100 grain HPBT Matchking that won't blow big holes in the hide. Don't use 'em for deer though. They make a 90 grain HPBT Gameking that should do nicely too. Hornady makes a 117 grain SST too.

sarduy
September 21, 2008, 02:34 AM
IMHO!

get a 30-06 that's all you need from varmint to elk

Sweden
September 23, 2008, 06:41 PM
I think the .257 Roberts is one of the most underappreciated cartridges there is. It would be great if bullet and ammo makers put a bit more effort into coming up with really good varmint bullets/ammo for it. Personally, I think it could also be perfectly viable for Elk, too.

I'm behind that 100%. The very mild recoil allows for better shot placement for most shooters, and the cartridge has more than sufficient power.

I took a Colorado elk two years ago with a Barnes Triple Shock 115 gr and plan on brining the Quarter Bob with me the later half of next month for another.

Decker
October 6, 2008, 04:45 PM
New to the forum, but this one really sparked my interest. Have had a ruger 77 ultra light in 243 for my daughter and wife to use on deer here in Mt for a long time, extremely effective on both white tails and mule deer. Have always just used factory 100 gr winchester power points with no complaints, never had a deer go more than 25 yards, most just hit the ground.

That said, my wife decided to get into the elk ring with me last year. I had a 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, 338 win mag, and 375 H&H in the vault, all of which I killed elk with no issue. Tried out the 7mm on her, seemed ok at the range shooting off sticks, so off we went for elk. 30 head, 200 yards out, beautiful setup, wife sits down, takes aim, boom, "my eye, my eye". Didnt take into account her having possible bad form from a sitting position and creeping up on the stock......

That leads me to the 25-06. Spent the better part of this year researching and trying to find something that would kill an elk reliably, but not cost me thousands in plastic surgeons... The 257 roberts, 260 rem, 25-06, 270, and 280 were all my final contenders. I had a 257 roberts a long time ago, and provided you reload its a great round. not having much time for reloading the last few years, i axed that one. Let her shoot a friends 270, that was still rocking her pretty hard (5'8", 125 lbs, so not alot to hold things back). Couldn't find anyone with a 260 to try out, but managed to get my hands on a 25-06 for her to try. Seemed to be acceptable all the way around from the shootability perspective.

So i bought a rem 700 stainless synthetic for her, topped it with a leopold 3x9 ultralight glass. I think i am in love with the gun at least, sum MOA groups with 120 gr remington corelokts. Will see if it is truely a viable elk gun or not here in 3 weeks, elk opens Oct 26 here in Mt, and i have a surplus cowtag to test it on first. Will report back here on how that goes soon hopefully!

Checking all the energy details out, seems to me a 120 at 3100 has about 1850 ftlbs of energy still at 200 yards, and i always figured a ton of energy was sufficient with a decent bullet on an elk, so wil see if that logic prevails.....

One final note for teh 243 fans, they can and will kill an elk, i shot mine with it last year with the same 100 gr winchester power points to see if i should turn the wife loose with it on elk. 50 yards, slight quartering shot, it liquified the lungs, but the bullet hung against the off side shoulder blade. dead in 10 steps, but placement is obviously everything, dont think i would recomend it to anyone except a very experienced shooter/hunter.

Can't wait to post some elk results!

ECVMatt
October 6, 2008, 06:28 PM
I am very interested in this caliber right now. Please keep us updated and good hunting.

Matt

Schleprok62
October 6, 2008, 06:57 PM
Simply put...


They both kill deer dead... I don't think the 25-06 kills them any deader than the .243....

akodo
October 6, 2008, 08:16 PM
on deer sized game it's hard to tell the difference between a 25/06 with 115-120gr. bullets and a .270 with 130's.

so is that a good argument to use in the 25-06 vs 243 debate? It seems to tell me "Get a 270 winchester"

MachIVshooter
October 6, 2008, 08:34 PM
The .25-06 is unsurpassed as a varmint cartridge, ideal for antelope and deer, and suitable for elk.

It is nearly as flexible as it's parent cartridge.

Recoil is present, but easily tolerable to all but the most sensitive shooter.

It is, however, an extremely loud cartridge. Very sharp crack.

I use everything from 75 gr. V-max's at 3,700 FPS for vaporizing praire dogs to 120 gr. Sierra's at 3,200 FPS for elk.

Save big bears and moose, there is no game animal on this continent that I wouldn't go after with my 700 BDL .25-06.

I also have a 6mm Rem, which edges out the .243 Win. in the .244" cartridge class. I limit it's use to animals no larger than mule deer.

Win75
October 6, 2008, 08:43 PM
Does the 25 06 actually perform better all around than the 243 for Deer?

Dead is dead!!!!!!!!!!!

Every deer I have shot in Northern Missouri has been dead on impact and only one traveled 20 yards with the .243 and 100 gr. Nosler Partitions.

RugerOldArmy
October 6, 2008, 11:47 PM
They both kill deer dead...

Different tools for different jobs. Take the data quoted (irrespective of how the specifics bias towards .243 Win):

Velocity 200yds - 2410 for the .243 and 2519 for the .25/06
Energy 200yds - 1225 for the .243 and 1648 for the .25/06

Velocity 300yds - 2184 for the .243 and 2301 for the .25/06
Energy 300yds - 1006 for the .243 and 1375 .25/05

Velocity 400yds - 1971 for the .243 and 2093 for the .25/06
Energy 400yds - 819 for the .243 and 1138 for the .25/06



So at 400 Yards, (beyond ethical IMO), the .25-06 has more velocity and energy than the .243 Win at 300 yards. In that case, .25-06 has a clear advantage.

On this board, personal preferences often get cast as fact, when the numbers speak clearly. It's good we aren't discussing Box Wrenches, for I'm sure we would get into debates where some are convinced a 3/8" is better than a 1/2" wrench, for any job, because a 1/2" wrench and bolt are a wasteful use of steel for any 'realistic' purpose. ;)

Ridgerunner665
October 6, 2008, 11:54 PM
Shawnee said everything I would have said in his first post in this thread...except he said it better than I could have.

I have taken a lot of deer and varmints with a 25-06...it is, as Shawnee said, as close as it gets to the ideal varmint, deer, elk combo rifle.

I like both the 243 and 25-06...but if I were forced to choose only one of them, it would be the 25-06.

cliffy
October 7, 2008, 12:27 AM
The .243 Winchester did not become the WORLD's fifth most popular sporting caliber by whim. 6mm bullet offerings grow with every new listings I receive. No manufacturer dare not list a .243 Winchester offering in nearly every model. Is this a fluke? The .243 Winchester is a slenderized 7mm-08. The slender bullet does everything the fatter bullet does, but at more ferocious velocity. One hundred grain premium bullets in .243 Winchester are nothing less than AWESOME in performance. A dead deer cares little what caliber killed it so instantly. Over-kill is easy with a .300 H&H Magnum, along with blood-shot meat. A .243 Winchester has more power potential than any .30/30 ever made, especially beyond 200 yards. Handloading brings out the very best in .243 Winchester loads. .25/06 Remingtons represent a stab at a new market and they are quite great. STILL, they present no NEEDED power advantage or accuracy advantage over the .243 Winchester regarding mere 400 pound ungulates. I don't hunt ungulates, but do pursue Feral Hogs avidly. Big Wild Pigs take notice of my handloaded .243 100 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets, just before they collapse to the ground. The main difference is accuracy due to great ballistics and mild recoil. That combination is priceless and deadly. cliffy

RugerOldArmy
October 7, 2008, 12:39 AM
The .243 Winchester did not become the WORLD's fifth most popular sporting caliber by whim. 6mm bullet offerings grow with every new listings I receive. No manufacturer dare not list a .243 Winchester offering in nearly every model. Is this a fluke? The .243 Winchester is a slenderized 7mm-08. The slender bullet does everything the fatter bullet does, but at more ferocious velocity. One hundred grain premium bullets in .243 Winchester are nothing less than AWESOME in performance. A dead deer cares little what caliber killed it so instantly. Over-kill is easy with a .300 H&H Magnum, along with blood-shot meat. A .243 Winchester has more power potential than any .30/30 ever made, especially beyond 200 yards. Handloading brings out the very best in .243 Winchester loads. .25/06 Remingtons represent a stab at a new market and they are quite great. STILL, they present no NEEDED power advantage or accuracy advantage over the .243 Winchester regarding mere 400 pound ungulates. I don't hunt ungulates, but do pursue Feral Hogs avidly. Big Wild Pigs take notice of my handloaded .243 100 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets, just before they collapse to the ground. The main difference is accuracy due to great ballistics and mild recoil. That combination is priceless and deadly.


Objective, unbiased, and clearly no personal opinions are stated as fact.

What the heck, I agree. In fact, I'm sure that Jesus himself would only hunt with a .243 Win cartridge. Those .25-06 cartridges are the spawn of the devil himself, craven images, sold by false prophets, with no merit of any kind.

Math is invented by mere mortals, and ballistics data is the tool of idle hands, manipulated by infidels! Use only .243 Win, as Allah has said! (And no infdel .25-06 believers shall be permitted enter Mecca, under penalty of death! )

And so it was written... ;)

Tarvis
October 7, 2008, 12:47 AM
Lots of good thoughts and data, when the rubber hits the road they are both excellent cartridges more than capable of taking deer. You can argue that the 25-06 is capable of taking elk, but you'd better be a good shot and pick the right bullet, or buy a rifle that is better suited for elk sized game.

You can argue numbers or which cartridge is more efficient or which one splits fewer hairs, but either would be a good choice.

lefteyedom
October 7, 2008, 03:31 AM
Gas on the fire. The truth is simple.
The 243 Win became a deer rifle because of good marketing, a friendly gun press and be chambered in light handing rifles with twist rates that stabilized 100 grain bullets. Most 243 win were never bought with varmint hunting in mind.
Though as a deer rifle rifle it is no better than many other mild cartridges, 244 Remington 250/3000 savage, 257 Roberts, 6.5X55 Swedish,6.5X57, 7X57 mauser ect.

If you want a really good Varmint, Deer and Elk rifle the cartridge than best fit this bill is the old 256 Newton. Which is now know as a 6.5-06. If you must have a short action then 6.5-284 Winchester. If you want water it down a little the use a 260 Remington. Either way the high BC of the available .264 bullets work better down range then ether the 243 or 257.

But as Jim Carmichel once said "There are lots of good all around rifles but where are all the good all around shooters?"

NWCP
October 7, 2008, 04:08 AM
Why not go with the Winchester .308? Good enough for most any game in the lower 48 and readily available anywhere. Not as glamorous, or exotic a round as some, but very effective against deer, elk, black bear and such. A bit of overkill for varmint, but then an inexpensive .223 would be more than sufficient for that duty. Two rifles and you're covered across the board and both calibers are popular and available in any sporting goods store. While the 25-06 is a really sweet round unless you reload you'll be hard pressed to find it many places.

NWCP
October 7, 2008, 04:11 AM
Why not go with the .308? Good enough for most any game in the lower 48 and readily available anywhere. Not as glamorous, or exotic a round as some, but very effective against deer, elk, black bear and such. A bit of overkill for varmint, but then an inexpensive .223 would be more than sufficient for that duty.

NWCP
October 7, 2008, 04:13 AM
Why not the good old .308? It'll take down most any game in the lower 48 with ease and is readily available.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
October 7, 2008, 01:14 PM
I'd go .243 simply because the rifles are handier and ammo is everywhere----either will get the job done if the hunter selects the proper bullets and picks his shots.

Decker
October 7, 2008, 06:15 PM
Everyone seems to concur, 300 yards and a deer is dead with both the 243 and teh 25-06. That said, i think the more important factors in a gun to kill a deer with are being over looked.

As I mentioned earlier, I have a ruger 77 ultralight in 243. 20 inch tapered bbl, dont think it hardly weighs 6 lbs, and the wife and kid are wicked with it. I on the other hand have a hard time with it off hand, as its too light, I can't keep it steady like an 8 - 9 lb gun. So that 243 is a bad choice for me as an over all deer gun, it doesn't fit the shooter, so the shooter isn't efficient. Flip side, kid is wicked with it, provides plenty of resistance for her to be steady.

The new rem 700 25-06 has 24 inch bbl, kid can't even lean back and hold it up, even though its maybe8 lbs, 8.5 at the most. Leverage is wrong, so bad fit. 5'8 wife has longer arms, handles it fine, and it fits me great as well, so better choice for the situation.

End of the day, the person that has the best fitting most accurate gun they can shoot will kill more deer humanely, and not because it was a 100 gr .243 slug or a 120 gr .257 slug.

We get so focussed on the details, we seem to loose focus of the big picture, such is life as a ganut......

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