Any private seller can ship to an FFL, right?


PDA






Golden Hound
September 19, 2008, 01:53 AM
I've got a rifle coming to me through an online transaction. I have one FFL guy here in town who I know, and I went to his shop to tell him about the transaction. He said that the guy I'm buying from (who is in Washington) needed to have HIS FFL send it over to him (the FFL here, in Indiana) I thought that anyone could ship a gun to an FFL. This guy made it seem like you have to BE an FFL to ship to another FFL. This is untrue, right?

If you enjoyed reading about "Any private seller can ship to an FFL, right?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
warriorsociologist
September 19, 2008, 01:56 AM
Legally, you are correct - but many FFL's have a "policy" of only working with other FFLs. If your FFL won't allow it, it's because he doesn't want to. His shop, his rules. I'd look for another FFL. Enter your zip into the FFL finder on gunbroker.com and see what comes up.

TAB
September 19, 2008, 01:56 AM
its a CYA move... nothing more.

If I had a FFL I would do the same thing. Working in one I saw where a gun was mailed for a transfer, only the guy that bought the gun failed the back ground check... so did the shiper... Too my knowlegde the gun still sits in that FFLs safe.

chris in va
September 19, 2008, 01:57 AM
I don't pretend to know for sure. So far I've had three guns shipped to my FFL from private owners that I bought. But when I tried to ship a revolver to my FFL back in VA, I was required to use an FFL locally.

Some shops simply won't accept guns not shipped from other shops or manufacturers.

NavyLCDR
September 19, 2008, 01:59 AM
And, since it was a rifle, it could, legally even be mailed by US Post Office by the private party to the FFL (if the FFL will accept it).

If it was a handgun, then the private party selling the handgun could only use a common carrier such as UPS or FEDEX.

Duke Junior
September 19, 2008, 02:02 AM
ATF shipping rules:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A non licensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A non licensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Mickstix
September 19, 2008, 02:09 AM
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Am I reading this right?? If it's within your own state, you can ship a firearm to another civilian/nonlicensee (In essence, sell it to them) without using an FFL?? For some reason I thought it HAD to be FTF..

GRB
September 19, 2008, 02:11 AM
I thought that anyone could ship a gun to an FFL. This guy made it seem like you have to BE an FFL to ship to another FFL. This is untrue, right? Legal federally, but maybe not under state law. I think some states require ffl to ffl shipping.

chris in va
September 19, 2008, 02:12 AM
Apparently so. Similar to a private party sale within the state I guess.

NavyLCDR
September 19, 2008, 02:12 AM
Am I reading this right?? If it's within your own state, you can ship a firearm to another civilian/nonlicensee (In essence, sell it to them) without using an FFL?? For some reason I thought it HAD to be FTF..

Yes, it is legal to do so, if the state law allows it. However, you probably won't be able to do it with a handgun because UPS and FEDEX choose not to. You would have to find a local carrier serving the areas in question to ship it.

Duke Junior
September 19, 2008, 02:13 AM
Am I reading this right?? If it's within your own state, you can ship a firearm to another civilian/nonlicensee (In essence, sell it to them) without using an FFL??

As you can see,this is straight from the folks at the ATF,Mickstix.
As Dave Barry would say "I am not making this up.":)

NavyLCDR
September 19, 2008, 02:16 AM
As you can see,this is straight from the folks at the ATF

However, it is merely in an ATF FAQ. One of their FAQs has an error in it that is not exactly in accordance with Federal Law.

Oh geez, here it comes, now I've done stirred the pot and turned up the heat! :evil:

Duke Junior
September 19, 2008, 02:17 AM
Oh geez, here it comes, now I've done stirred the pot and turned up the heat:evil:

You are a devil!:D

Call them:

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Bureau of
Atlanta, GA 30303
Local:
404-320-8200

National Enforcement Operations Center

1-866-927-9257 (Toll Free)

Flame Red
September 19, 2008, 09:54 AM
Same here in Central Florida, all the FFL's have just decided that they won't take anything from private parties anymore. But the annoying thing is that they say it is an ATF rule!

:fire:

CDignition
September 19, 2008, 10:04 AM
its just bad business and that's all.. these FFL's are greedy, and want you to buy from their store stock instead of buying used online.. that all there is to it. There is no legal/moral reason not to, and there is no liability to the FFL to receive guns from private people...

Ill bet the same dealers will take a gun in trade from you, and that's the same dang thing...Put em out of business and let the market self correct this. The good people will help you out..

deadin
September 19, 2008, 10:53 AM
Whenever I've sold a gun to an FFL (in person) they always take down my Driver License information AND compare the picture on the DL to me. This is hard to do through the mail. I could send a copy of my DL, but the "compare" bit is impossible. The FFL is required to enter name and address or DL# into their bound book. Can you really blame them for being cautious? (Especially with the BATFE always looking for reasons to snatch away a license?)
You might ask if they will accept a notarized copy of your DL.

MinnMooney
September 19, 2008, 11:35 AM
Like several posters have said, it's strickly a cover-your-a__ store policy and NOT law. I just made a trade and both of us private, non-FFL traders sent our respective guns to FFL holders near the other trader. Simple. All the FFLs needed was the gun, phone # of the recipient (so he could call & tell him his gun was in) and a copy of the sender's drivers license.

deadin
September 19, 2008, 12:15 PM
and a copy of the sender's drivers license.
Just playing Devil's Advocate..... How do they know it's the sender's DL??

I could see reasons a seller wouldn't want a gun to be traced back to him.
(Especially if it were stolen, but not yet reported.)

stampsm
September 19, 2008, 02:11 PM
Am I reading this right?? If it's within your own state, you can ship a firearm to another civilian/nonlicensee (In essence, sell it to them) without using an FFL??

those laws about FFL exist due to congress being able to regulate interstate trade. i am sure the feds would love to require in-state trades to have to go through a FFL but even our current SCOTUS would *****slap them if they tried.

If you enjoyed reading about "Any private seller can ship to an FFL, right?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!