Firemission: Poll on allowing teachers to have guns


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swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 02:20 PM
This is related to a Dr Phill show scheduled for today where they'll be discussing the Texas School district that has opted to allow a board authorized list of teachers with CCW permits to receive special training on how to deal with hostage & terrorist situations before "allowing" them to carry concealed weapons on campus. Go vote:

drphil.com/shows/page/Webpolls/

Currently we're loosing:

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
24%
716
Yes.

76%
2394
No.

Total:
3110

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Kindrox
September 19, 2008, 02:21 PM
Another yes vote!

Daemon688
September 19, 2008, 02:22 PM
Wow, voted. I'm definitely going to watch his episode today.

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
24%725Yes.
76%2402No.

We're losing by a wide margin.

PirateRadio
September 19, 2008, 02:31 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think it's a good idea for teachers to carry. I'm all for armed security though.

20-30 kids on a class with a lot going on, it seems like it'd be real easy for a kid to get his/her hands on the gun and turn it on the class.

Daemon688
September 19, 2008, 02:35 PM
Funny you're from Chicago. When I was in highschool, we had armed police officers roaming the halls in a town of about 7,000 people. There sure were a lot of kids running around and I never saw him disarmed by children. It's not like these teachers are leaving their guns on their desk. When ever I'm carrying, my gun is holstered and on me at all times. Or maybe is it because the teachers just aren't professional enough?

PirateRadio
September 19, 2008, 02:41 PM
Daemon688-

Me being from Chicago probably has something to do with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a gun fanatic (although a recent one) and I would love to see the AWB dropped for cook county and concealed carry be legalized. But I don't teacher, at least around here, taking it very seriously. Sooner or later I just seem some kid getting his hands on the teacher's weapon.

I'm not against armed security guards, however. In fact, my high school used to have 2 or 3 of them in every building. They were all off duty cops.

I think my point is that there is so much going on in class that maybe a handgun isn't something a teacher should have to worry about and should be left to the security guards since it is their job.

Picard
September 19, 2008, 02:45 PM
I voted. Thanks for posting.

oklahoma caveman
September 19, 2008, 02:45 PM
did my part. it dont look good tho.

Chipperman
September 19, 2008, 02:47 PM
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
24% 756 Yes.
76% 2415 No.

Total:3171

Henry Bowman
September 19, 2008, 02:52 PM
20-30 kids on a class with a lot going on, it seems like it'd be real easy for a kid to get his/her hands on the gun and turn it on the class.
Sure. Happens all the time. :rolleyes:

I don't mean to mock you. It's just that unsubstantiated "possibilities" and "feelings" like this determine policy way, way too often.

Daemon688
September 19, 2008, 02:53 PM
Well, when I'm carrying concealed, I'm willing to bet 99% of the people around me have no idea I'm carrying. And I'm certainly not walking around every corner worrying about being disarmed. Remember that Holocaust survivor from VT? I'm sure he would have faired much better protecting his students if he was armed. Where were the campus security guards then?

ronwill
September 19, 2008, 02:54 PM
One more yes vote but still losing.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 02:57 PM
PirateRadio said:
I hate to say it, but I don't think it's a good idea for teachers to carry. I'm all for armed security though.

20-30 kids on a class with a lot going on, it seems like it'd be real easy for a kid to get his/her hands on the gun and turn it on the class.

The teachers will be required to conceal carry on their person - no off body carry. The names of those authorized to carry won't be released. This will give them a significant advantage over a typical armed guard. Remember Columbine? The armed guard was targeted first & he ran away. Remember the recent courthouse shooting? The openly carrying armed officers were targeted first. Concealed carry gives the teachers an upper hand advantage that the armed security guards don't have.

arthurcw
September 19, 2008, 02:58 PM
I voted, but honestly... this is Dr. Phil. His target audience is basically the Brady Bunch baseline Demographic. He's funded by Oprah.

Getting his audience to think clearly about guns is like getting them to think clearly on ANY ISSUE. It’s not gonna happen.

You know the drill. Sad music. Crying Grandmothers. Poor children who never did ANYTHING WRONG shot BY a gun. Not WITH a gun… BY a gun.

Good luck to any who have the stomach to watch these shows.

PirateRadio
September 19, 2008, 03:01 PM
Henry Bowman-

I don't know about that. My feeling is why leave it to the teacher, when you can have trained guards to take care of it?

(And I didn't think you were mocking me. I knew people would disagree with me which is why I originally posted. Perhaps I'm just not seeing the other side of the argument correctly.)

PirateRadio
September 19, 2008, 03:03 PM
The teachers will be required to conceal carry on their person - no off body carry. The names of those authorized to carry won't be released. This will give them a significant advantage over a typical armed guard. Remember Columbine? The armed guard was targeted first & he ran away. Remember the recent courthouse shooting? The openly carrying armed officers were targeted first. Concealed carry gives the teachers an upper hand advantage that the armed security guards don't have.

Ah, that makes sense. For some reason I envisioned this being something that the school governed. I don't know why I thought that. Basically you are saying that this would be like any other CCW and it would just be a law change to allow those who choose to carry outside school to carry inside as well.

In that case, I agree.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:06 PM
arthurcw: - I too am definitely expecting a lot of anti gun bias, made up fairytale what if's, etc on the part of Dr Phil & the pro-Obama teachers union rep he will have as a guest on the show.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:09 PM
Actually the Texas law says no ccw carry on school campus allowed unless the school district has authorized it. In this case the district is authorizing a specific list of CCW permit holding teachers & administrators who have received some special hostage situation training to conceal carry while in the schools gun free zones, so it is school board run.

Joe Gunns
September 19, 2008, 03:11 PM
Now @ 25% Y.

ZeSpectre
September 19, 2008, 03:14 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't think it's a good idea for teachers to carry

Are you saying you don't think it's a good idea at all, or just in the classroom?

If just in the classroom then can you tell me why concealed carry would be worse in a classroom then just out on the street?

Not picking on ya, I'm genuinely curious to understand your thinking.

romma
September 19, 2008, 03:15 PM
25% Still.

Realbigo
September 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
I love the fact that the poll is yes, or no w/ no other info. I'm in favor of it w/ proper certification and/or training. I often worry about my mother, who teaches 1st grade less than 100 yards from the city Jail, Courts, and Juvenile Detention. She's a decent shot, and would be more than capable to take the training to carry in the school.

rr2241tx
September 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
NO!!! Public school teachers have enough cr*p to contend with already in TX, what with all the PC-BS they are required to do INSTEAD of teaching subject matter. If the school needs security, then by all means let them contract with the PD for armed guards who know how to deal with the situation and deal with it at the sidewalk. Our school officials have already shown adequately that they can't distinguish between a 2" GI Joe rifle and a weapon and they talk a big show about being drug-free, but the restrooms are enough to get a contact high while trying to wash your hands. I really don't think school teachers and administrators are the right people to be loose on campus with anything more dangerous than a walkie-talkie.

Just my $0.02. [rant off]

rr2241tx

armedandsafe
September 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
School board run, but following State law, which mandates concealed.

Pops

Billy Bad Bass
September 19, 2008, 03:20 PM
One more yes but still at 25%

mgregg85
September 19, 2008, 03:22 PM
were getting creamed on this one.

armedandsafe
September 19, 2008, 03:24 PM
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
25%805Yes.
75%2422No.

Total:3227

PirateRadio
September 19, 2008, 03:31 PM
Are you saying you don't think it's a good idea at all, or just in the classroom?

If just in the classroom then can you tell me why concealed carry would be worse in a classroom then just out on the street?

Not picking on ya, I'm genuinely curious to understand your thinking.

I meant classroom. But when I said that I, for some reason, thought this would be a school regulated thing. As in, the school is responsible for the training and policies. I have no idea how I came to that conclusion.

http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/facepalm.gif

arthurcw
September 19, 2008, 03:32 PM
were getting creamed on this one.

But think of WHERE we are getting creamed. It's like getting low marks in the Olympics from a Russian Judge during the Cold War. Do your best and smile knowingly.

Take some happy from the fact that 24% of the original responders of the Dr. Phil audience may have a small clue. That’s more than I would have guessed.

jasonguerard
September 19, 2008, 03:32 PM
26% 74%
On Phils site that's practically a win!

ridata
September 19, 2008, 03:33 PM
Well, I bumped it up about 2% for us.

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
30%
1001
Yes.

70%
2439
No.

Total:
3440


Total Votes: 3440

Looking good!
I have to keep re-enabling cookies coming back over here to THR...

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:36 PM
Very true. The wording of the poll probably doesn't help much either - the way it is worded it sounds like they are asking people to vote on whether or not all teachers should be forced to carry guns.

Archer1945
September 19, 2008, 03:38 PM
Just posted my vote, still 75-25.

For those who say the job should be filled by security guards who are trained in such things I'd like to know what makes them think a street cop is trained to handle a sudden attack. Most likely the way they will find out about it is as the bullets are either flying around them or tearing into them. Most so-called "street cops" haven't walked a beat in years and are lucky to know what streets they are driving on, let alone know the people on the street.

If you want armed guards posted then the only way they can really work is if there is one outside every class room door. Guess how everyone is going to find out they are under attack? With some luck one might be smart enough to use a radio to call in a SWAT team but by the time they get there, get their act together and establish a perimeter there will have been a bloodbath in the school.

It is really funny how people have no qualms about turning their kids over to a teacher for a number of hours each day but the moment anyone suggests giving these same teachers the ability to protect the kiddies suddenly they are unqualified.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:40 PM
We're gaining ground:
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
28%
902
Yes.

72%
2431
No.

Total:
3333

markinmichiagn
September 19, 2008, 03:44 PM
I voted, however there is really no chance on this "poll". The average "dr." phil viewer is most likely not to concerned with RKBA issues.

But that is just my WAG.

Daemon688
September 19, 2008, 03:44 PM
Our school officials have already shown adequately that they can't distinguish between a 2" GI Joe rifle and a weapon and they talk a big show about being drug-free, but the restrooms are enough to get a contact high while trying to wash your hands. I really don't think school teachers and administrators are the right people to be loose on campus with anything more dangerous than a walkie-talkie.

You know I'm willing to bet there's more than one teacher that frequents this board.

I really don't think you and people who frequent gun boards are the right people to be loose on public streets with anything more dangerous than a walkie-talkie, they have so much paranoia that they'll be shooting anyone the first chance they get.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:45 PM
The good news is our side has gained 194 votes so far since I first voted less than an hour ago, whereas the opposing side has only gained 38. That means we've gained ground by a margin of 156 votes during the time period.

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 03:53 PM
Still gaining! Now 29% to 71%

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
29%
950
Yes.

71%
2432
No.

Total:
3382

Daemon688
September 19, 2008, 04:10 PM
Watching it right now

Loosely Quoted

Dr. Phil "You know, if someone had walked into a room and started shooting, boy you could sure bet I wish I had gun."

When one of the guests said "A teacher could one day just say, these kids are driving me crazy, I've had it I'm going to shoot them"

Dr. Phil "Well, if they're really that fragile, there's nothing stopping from going home and getting a gun".

And no, Dr. Phil is not owned by Oprah, he owns his own show.....

crebralfix
September 19, 2008, 04:11 PM
done...still losing!

Intune
September 19, 2008, 04:16 PM
31% yes

69% no

ridata
September 19, 2008, 04:18 PM
Daemon688: Actually sounds pretty good. Let us know if he talks about the poll results.

Eric F
September 19, 2008, 04:19 PM
Should a teacher carry a gun?

I see a few ways to read the question.

there is word for word meaning. To which I say no

there is the same question but with the common sense denomenator of for self defense to which I say Yes

then theres the Should a teacher carry a gun to protect the students to which I say consult your states laws about protecting others with YOUR gun.

Just my .02

swifteagle
September 19, 2008, 04:41 PM
Still gaining - now 32% to 68%:
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
32%
1132
Yes.

68%
2477
No.

Total:
3609

arthurcw
September 19, 2008, 04:52 PM
Loosely Quoted

Dr. Phil "You know, if someone had walked into a room and started shooting, boy you could sure bet I wish I had gun."

When one of the guests said "A teacher could one day just say, these kids are driving me crazy, I've had it I'm going to shoot them"

Dr. Phil "Well, if they're really that fragile, there's nothing stopping from going home and getting a gun".

hmmm... I have some respect for him now.

Hugo
September 19, 2008, 11:41 PM
At least he's not a total jerk and has some sense. Another step in the right direction on the long journey to a less idiotic world.

jonmerritt
September 20, 2008, 12:22 AM
No teachers with guns? To much going on in the classroom to be safe? Only armed leo's in the schools?
Then what the heck are you doing with a gun!!! You don't need a gun! just call the cops! And remind them to bring a body bag for you when they get there.

XD Fan
September 20, 2008, 12:30 AM
34 to 66

cliffy
September 20, 2008, 12:53 AM
Teachers should not have to carry firepower! Students should be disarmed as they enter school via metal detectors. A day of learning does not require gunplay. Which few schools are we in reference to here? Certainly not the National high school average! Why should going to school require firepower! It's not like walking into a Post Office after all! However, if John Doe being armed was a secret (ccw), no idiot would have the nerve to open fire. Firearms are here to stay, so outlawing them would put only honest students at risk, since only bad people would NEVER turn in their arms. See Chicago, Detroit, and D.C. stats! The Government can only disarm good citizens, not vicious arseholes. cliffy

CombatArmsUSAF
September 20, 2008, 01:08 AM
We're losing, but I'd say a third of all respondents isn't bad.

35%
1379
Yes.

65%
2667
No.

woad_yurt
September 20, 2008, 01:54 AM
I was surprised to see that 1/4 of his viewership said "yes." That's pretty cool, way better than I would expect.

jakk280rem
September 20, 2008, 02:40 AM
35%1392Yes.
65%2671No.

Total:4063

tpaw
September 20, 2008, 02:45 AM
delete message wrong forum

ArizonaTRex
September 20, 2008, 02:45 AM
yes

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
35%
1393
Yes.

65%
2671
No.

Total:
4064

conw
September 20, 2008, 02:46 AM
Terrible wording on the poll.

35-65 now.

Ben86
September 20, 2008, 03:04 AM
I say if the teachers have a ccw permit they should be allowed to carry on campus. As should college students. The teachers can be properly trained.

Our educational buildings should not have to be the "hen" houses that they are. Sure security guards help. But they cannot be everywhere at once. And by the time they get there many shots could be fired. That's if they don't want to just wait for the real police to come.

"No Firearms Allowed" signs crack me up. Unless there is armed security and a medal detector at every enterance to prevent ANYONE from entering with a gun they might as well have a sign that says "All patrons disarmed, nothing but sitting ducks inside." Or something to that effect.

conw
September 20, 2008, 03:08 AM
medal detector

Is that what the Talley-ban uses to detect high-ranking military staff?

Sorry...:neener:

akodo
September 20, 2008, 03:35 AM
Sooner or later I just seem some kid getting his hands on the teacher's weapon.

Sooner or later, some kid is going to come to school and shoot students like fish in a barrel because no teacher is allowed to have a gun stop him.

oh wait....na, that could never happen.

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
September 20, 2008, 03:58 AM
anyone else notice the giant "women support obama" banner ad at the top of the webpage for the poll...

... I think I found the problem right here.

tpaw
September 20, 2008, 02:38 PM
I have one daughter that just graduated college and one who is now a junior. They both say that the teachers/professors are so liberal, they probably would refuse to carry guns. Fortunately my girls are pro gun because of their exposure and upbringing in my household. Problem is however, they say that most of the other students are being brain washed into the anti-gun mode, saying they wouldn't carry a gun either. These so called "Professors" are creating a generation of sheep. Thank God my girls think like me! :what:

Werewolf
September 20, 2008, 02:49 PM
The poll question is rigged. It's designed to get a no answer.

Should Teachers carry Guns?

There is absolutely no context to that question. It sounds like someone is asking if teachers should parade around in schools with 44's on their hips and a shotgun strapped to their backs.

We, as gunnies - automatically think concealed and defense of ourselves and the kids.

Everyone else thinks wild wild west.

Bad poll - rigged - probably by that weenie Dr. Phil himself.

Loosedhorse
September 20, 2008, 03:13 PM
Agreed--suppose the poll had been worded so:

"In cases where local police manpower is inadequate to dependably prevent violent attacks on defenseless schoolchildren, should teachers be allowed, if they so choose and if they complete special training, to apply for a special license to carry low-richocet, low-penetration firearms as a last-resort defense against ever-more frequent attacks by maniacal child-murderers?"

Think we'd have gotten a few more yes votes? I wonder how many of the "NO" votes had as reason the teachers don't know ANYTHING ABOUT GUNS--very true around here--the teachers DON'T WANT TO--again, here it's true--or I'm sure there's enough police to take care of this.

Key words in my q are license, training, low-richocet, low-penetration--and of course the genral references to child safety and only if the police can't prevent every attack (as we know they can't possibly).

It's already happened http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/us/29texas.html

JWarren
September 20, 2008, 03:19 PM
As a teacher who has one student in a class who is wearing a blinking ankle bracelet due to home arrest for home invasion robbery and another student with a long history of assaulting teachers, I'd say that we should be allowed if we so chose.

I've yet to see a school system that could afford to put security inside every classroom.




Voted:


Should Teachers Carry Guns?
36% 1450 Yes.
64% 2684 No.

Total: 4134

-- John

TStorm
September 20, 2008, 06:54 PM
One more Yes.

Boris
September 20, 2008, 07:56 PM
"In cases where local police manpower is inadequate to dependably prevent violent attacks on defenseless schoolchildren, should teachers be allowed, if they so choose and if they complete special training, to apply for a special license to carry low-richocet, low-penetration firearms as a last-resort defense against ever-more frequent attacks by maniacal child-murderers?"

With the attention span that most of Phil's TV zombies have, I doubt you would even get 10 votes on that poll since most wouldn't bother even reading it. :rolleyes:

Another Yes from me. Come on were rising up slowly but steadily, let's get it to 50%, that'll show em.
Also seeing some of the security guards at my high school, there is no way in hell I would entrust my life to them even if they walked the halls with Uzi's. They are not in the physical condition to even walk a flight of stairs, much less rush to an emergency. I've seen them try then turn around and go to the elevator. And these are supposed to be members of New York's Finest?

Looking at the polls, it's a shame that people still think that at 18 a person is old enough to die for his country and be entrusted with a car but can't be trusted with a beer. Voted yes on that one.

arjppj
September 20, 2008, 08:09 PM
i'm sure a BUNCH of gun owners look at Dr. Phil's website.....

swifteagle
September 23, 2008, 03:41 AM
Still gaining - 37% to 63% now.

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
37%
1569
Yes.

63%
2750
No.

Total:
4319

Quiet
September 23, 2008, 03:46 AM
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
37% 1572 Yes.
63% 2750 No.

Total:4322

Oana
September 23, 2008, 04:16 AM
Another yes vote.

37%1577Yes.
63%2750No.

Total:4327

RDak
September 23, 2008, 05:40 AM
Once again we see soccer moms are deathly afraid of firearms.

Intune
September 23, 2008, 10:32 AM
38% yes

62% no

Keep rockin' it!

swifteagle
September 23, 2008, 02:13 PM
Still making progress - now up to 39% to 61%

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
39%
1700
Yes.

61%
2755
No.

Total:
4455

swifteagle
September 23, 2008, 06:24 PM
We've made a huge gain today - now 46% to 54%!

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
46%
2345
Yes.

54%
2756
No.

Total:
5101

3fgburner
September 23, 2008, 06:43 PM
51% YES
49% No.

swifteagle
September 23, 2008, 08:20 PM
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
52% 2904 Yes.
48% 2760 No.
Total:5664

cambeul41
September 23, 2008, 09:18 PM
Should Teachers Carry Guns?
52%
3006
Yes.

48%
2785
No.

Total:
5791


Total Votes: 5791

Daemon688
September 23, 2008, 09:41 PM
A little late, the poll was put up on the show quite awhile ago.

swifteagle
September 24, 2008, 01:04 AM
It was broadcast on the show last Friday but it is still showing up as one of two active polls on his website. Might as well make it look good for all his site visitors. :)

swifteagle
September 25, 2008, 01:18 PM
I bet Dr. Phil is scratching his head!

Should Teachers Carry Guns?
72% 7179 Yes.
28% 2813 No.

Total:
9992

george29
September 25, 2008, 02:24 PM
I also don't believe Teachers should be armed. Teachers need to teach, professional security guards need to do the guarding. I didn't vote though because it would send the wrong message to the libs.

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