OC'ing in Flint/Clio/Mt Morris, MI...


PDA






Clipper
September 19, 2008, 03:36 PM
The last few days, I've been OC'ing, using my new Unca Mike's belt slide with my PF-9. The reason I have started doing this is because I've been losing weight lately, and I have almost shrunk out of my cargo pants, but I can fit into some Wrangler jeans I've had for a couple years sitting new in the box (12 pair), but the PF-9 and it's Nemisis is a tight fit in the smaller pockets. So far I've been to VG's grocery in Clio, Sam's club in Flint, several of the local gas/convienience stores in Clio & Mt. Morris, and a few other places...Noone seemed the least bit perturbed, noone made mention, and noone has (to my notice, anyway) even really seemed to notice. Heck, I spent several hours at the fishing dock at Mott lake the other night, and the guy I was fishing with, who has been there most nights when I go there, didn't even notice I was open carrying (he knows I have a CCW and that I'm always armed) until several hours later when some guy who creeped his girlfriend out showed up, and she reeled in and left the dock where she was seated and joined us on the other dock, and said she was joining us because "At least he has a pistol"! I allowed as to how it can be a comfort sometimes...

Of course around here there are lots of sportsmen and CCW holders, and I expect though someone OC'ing might get a 'how about that' kind of reaction, folks are unlikely to go to pieces about it. Just thought I'd let other Flint area potential OC'ers know that so far I haven't been inconvienced or harrassed in any way, yet...

If you enjoyed reading about "OC'ing in Flint/Clio/Mt Morris, MI..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
moooose102
September 19, 2008, 08:56 PM
the key word there is probably, YET. i wish you well. i have been thinking about doing the same over on the west side of the state. i just havent worked up the nerve yet. small towns are sometimes the worst.

bsf
September 19, 2008, 09:54 PM
...........but the PF-9 and it's Nemisis is a tight fit in the smaller pockets. So far I've been to VG's grocery in Clio, Sam's club in Flint, several of the local gas/convienience stores in Clio & Mt. Morris, and a few other places...Noone seemed the least bit perturbed, noone made mention, and noone has (to my notice, anyway) even really seemed to notice.
Dude, what do you expect. That gun is like an inch tall. :D Of course people are not going to notice it.

JesseL
September 20, 2008, 01:01 AM
I've been open carrying for 9 years and I still haven't run into anyone who was too upset about it. The most reaction I usually get is a little casual interest.

I don't always carry small, discrete guns either. Most people can easily ignore a Ruger Blackhawk in a mexican double-loop holster hanging off of a cartridge belt. A full size 1911 is no biggie either.

NavyLCDR
September 20, 2008, 02:03 AM
I had a punk with a nose ring comment to me in 7-11 after seeing my Ruger P345, "Yeah, Oak Harbor [Washington] is a real dangerous place". A couple of months later a whacko kills 6 and wounds 4 others in next county over.

Seriously, though, the guy is wearing a nose ring and he's bustin on me for gun on my belt? I have had a few people walk away after talking with the "hmmmm, I didn't know you could do that" light bulb in their head.

Oh, and the guy at Jack in the Box who saw my gun and said, "Isn't that supposed to be concealed?" I said, "Nope". He looked down his nose at me and said "I wear mine concealed." Well good for you buddy, if it was truly being concealed that had your panties in a bunch than you wouldn't be announcing the presence of the gun to me would you?!?

Oh, the first time I was in Jack in the Box, the kid behind the counter asked if it was a glock. I said, no, Ruger P345. He said, wow! that's a nice gun, my dad carries a glock.

Oh, and the manager at Burger King on a Sunday morning asked who I came in to pick up. I said, nobody, just a couple boxes of Cinimini's.

I have found it, for the most part, to have very nice conversations with folks and they seem to walk away truly educated vice put out.

Bezoar
September 20, 2008, 02:18 AM
have to be careful in michigan, the state law does not have an actual statute that puts the right to open carry into actual iron clade legal right.

however in 1924 i think it was the then state attorney general made a decision where he felt that open carry was fine to do. sicne then each attorney general has made that affirmation.
THis summer that was done again by attorney general Cox when a small town government/plice department got scared when a group of CCWs opened carried in a west michigan town to promote self defense laws and rights.
However there is at least one town where they passed a law ruling open carry to be disturbing the peace.

notice that most people dont see the wisdom of carrying around 24 ounces of 357 until they need it?

Stevie-Ray
September 20, 2008, 02:45 AM
The Flint/Clio/Mt. Morris area is not really a huge bustling metropolitan giant. Flint qualifies as a question near the auto plants, but that is an exception. Most OC'rs are pretty much in the sticks in Michigan; it's always been that way. Come down to Wayne County if you really want to put it to the test. But I suggest you bring several guns with you, as you won't get them back right away after you're let out. I just OC'd day before yesterday, for the first time in years, trying out a new holster for best/most comfortable fit, and got some weird looks, but nothing earthshaking, at least not yet. I'm south of Detroit. I'm still hoping that the police of this fine state will start getting used to it, but the city of Detroit will be the real test. I'm betting on a Phillyesque ordinance.

thumbody
September 20, 2008, 09:46 AM
have to be careful in michigan, the state law does not have an actual statute that puts the right to open carry into actual iron clade legal right

Check out the MSP legal updates http://www.mi.gov/documents/msp/Legal_Updates_185809_7.pdf

Check #'s 54 &55 also #66

However there is at least one town where they passed a law ruling open carry to be disturbing the peace.


From update#55
In MRCGO v. Ferndale, the Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. Therefore, officers should check with their prosecutors before enforcing an ordinance that imposes a general ban on openly carrying a pistol.

poor_richard
September 20, 2008, 12:59 PM
have to be careful in michigan, the state law does not have an actual statute that puts the right to open carry into actual iron clade legal right. That’s because that isn’t how the law works. There are no laws permitting us to own shotguns and rifles either. If there is no statute that, “puts the right to open carry into actual iron clad legal right“ (which isn’t entirely true anyway), then there are no laws that do the same for ownership of said weapons. It‘s like saying there is no law giving people the right to sit on their front porch. It isn‘t illegal, therefore it‘s legal. Thats how laws work. Sadly, we‘ve become a society that‘s so accustomed to asking permission from the State, that it seems that some people now believe that we must have permission from the state for doing something that not only is within our full rights to do, but is also protected by state law, and the state constitution.

Fact is, the Michigan Constitution states that, “Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.”
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(brcgpkzqtj0n1b45iwy444et))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Article-I-6

That, plus MCL 123.1102 is about as “iron clad“ as it gets without government regulation. That‘s another thing. We‘ve also become so accustomed to the Supreme Law of The Land (USC) being ignored, disregarded, dismissed, “interpreted“ (it was written in English), and it‘s meaning totally warped. As a result of that, we now look to our lords to pass laws to protect rights that we already have laws protecting.

Your absolutely correct. Because our rulers no longer honor our laws, we understand that none of our rights are “iron clad“. The right to OC in Michigan is as “iron clad“ as the right to keep and bear arms. Both are enumerated under the Constitutions (both US and Michigan). Both have been tried in the courts, and have had legal precedence established. Both have had their respective Attorney Generals publicly state that it is so. Yet, we all know that all it takes is some tyrannical (and yes, they are tyrannical), activist judge to come along and impose his personal agenda, rather than law. Actually (come to think of it), Michigan‘s right to OC is more “iron clad“ than the individual RKBA on a federal level since Michigan has a law prohibiting any local unit of government from enacting or enforcing any regulation, taxation, or restriction on the matter. We don‘t get that on the federal level. …

however in 1924 i think it was the then state attorney general made a decision where he felt that open carry was fine to do. sicne then each attorney general has made that affirmation. Up until 1990, local units of government could restrict the right to OC, and many did. Since 1990, those local units of government no longer have that right. …
THis summer that was done again by attorney general Cox when a small town government/plice department got scared when a group of CCWs opened carried in a west michigan town to promote self defense laws and rights. … Really!?

I never heard anything of the police department “getting scared” (and I doubt they were). Matter of fact, I seriously doubt anyone “got scared” by that event. Some people were angry, and/or offended, but not scared. …
However there is at least one town where they passed a law ruling open carry to be disturbing the peace…. Cite please?
What town are you talking about?

Any such law is unenforceable because it violates state law. …

notice that most people dont see the wisdom of carrying around 24 ounces of 357 until they need it?..
This is a typical “anti” statement.

Most people don’t go where they see a need for “24 ounces of 357 “. I’d agree that “most people don’t see a need for it”, since there are such a small percentage of the population who have permits to carry concealed weapons. However, that doesn’t mean that the “need” to do so doesn’t exist. Nor does it have much to do with the topic of OC.


Come down to Wayne County if you really want to put it to the test. But I suggest you bring several guns with you, as you won't get them back right away after you're let out.
It’s been done, and your predictions haven’t come to pass. Sure, it can always happen no matter where you are. It could happen out in the woods during hunting season. Cops can do whatever they want, and can arrest people for just about any reason they chose (as long as they can justify it in their report, and even then if the can’t, very little will happen).

People have done it Novi, Allen Park, Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, Detroit, Garden City, Livonia, as well as others. Just last week I was with a friend in Westland who was OC’ing, and does so there on a regular basis. He even told me how he held the door for a local LEO while OC’ing, with no problems from that officer. Then of course there was the OCDO picnic in Warren (yeah I know, it’s not Wayne County, but it’s closer to Detroit than some of the other places).

Fact is, more and more departments are becoming educated on the legalities of OC, just as more citizens are becoming desensitized to it. For years we’ve been taught that, “only criminals and cops carry guns”. Law abiding citizens OC’ing breaks down that stigmatization.

Stevie-Ray
September 20, 2008, 03:02 PM
Fact is, more and more departments are becoming educated on the legalities of OC, just as more citizens are becoming desensitized to it. For years we’ve been taught that, “only criminals and cops carry guns”. Law abiding citizens OC’ing breaks down that stigmatization.Right, but it's a shame that they have to be "educated" about something that's been legal since Michigan's statehood. Now that the cities are cesspools, more and more people need to be OC'ing in those cities, and I think the cops would find that their jobs become easier instead of harder. After all, what BG wears a pistol on his hip? One thing is for certain; if there comes a test case that brings the practice to light in court, that case will be out of Wayne County.

Itegorm
September 20, 2008, 09:44 PM
Glad to hear of the lack of comments in the Clio/Mt. Morris area. I am on the other end of the county from you and occasionally carry open without too much problem. I have had a bit of an issue in Fenton and Grand Blanc a couple of times. Usually just someone looing a bit appaled that I would carry inthe first place and I once had a Fenton cop ask me "Is that Legal?" I really liked that comment. The only place I ever had any sort of real issue with open carry was helping a friend move in Ann Arbor. i took off my over shirt while moving furniture and one of the neighbors noticed my CZ and called the police. That particular call gave me the oppertunity to speak with 4 officers about the legality of it all. It worked out OK but it was a bit of an annoyance. That being said I still opencarry from time to time.

poor_richard
September 20, 2008, 11:52 PM
Right, but it's a shame that they have to be "educated" about something that's been legal since Michigan's statehood. … It is even more of a shame when they are already “educated”, but decide to harass the law-abiding OC’er anyway. BTW, it may have been legal in Michigan since it’s statehood, but it was illegal in many jurisdictions up until 1990. Since then, local units of government have no authority or right over it. … One thing is for certain; if there comes a test case that brings the practice to light in court, that case will be out of Wayne County.
That would be a hard road for them since the Michigan AG has been quoted on the local news channels as saying that it’s legal. Grand Haven tried it already at the Coast Guard Festival, and found out that they hadn‘t a legal leg to stand on.

If you enjoyed reading about "OC'ing in Flint/Clio/Mt Morris, MI..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!