Oregon gun show background check long guns


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Bigfoot
September 20, 2008, 06:59 PM
I read the Oregon gun laws but it didn't answer my question. http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/ORSL.pdf

I want to buy a few rifles and shotguns at the gun show but I don't like the libtard Oregon government knowing what guns I own. It's none of thier business. I have no problem submiting to the background check, I'll pass any test or check that they have.

So how does this work. Is the transaction just between me and the seller, after the background check clears? Does the government get paperwork detailing my purchase? Does there have to be any paperwork between me and the seller other than the background check?

Obviously Oregon knows that they did a background check on me, but will they know the gun type, serial #, purchase price etc?

TIA
Bigfoot

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TexasFats
September 22, 2008, 07:00 PM
I don't know Oregon law, but, in most states, transactions between private individuals don't require a background check. Any FFL dealer with a table, however, will be required to run the background check. Where I live, in Austin, Texas, private transactions do not require a background check, but the dealers at the gun show this last weekend were, as always, having people fill out the 4473 forms and were calling the background checks in with their cell phones.

The background check requirement for FFL dealers is a federal law that applies in all states.

Keaner
September 23, 2008, 04:34 PM
Texas is correct. Any person who has a table is most likely going to be an FFL, and thus would require you to submit to the background check ($10 fee).

Anyone walking along the floor is welcomed to sell as a normal F2F exchange.

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 05:22 PM
Anyone walking along the floor is welcomed to sell as a normal F2F exchange.
my understanding is that isnt correct while actually at the show, even if neither is an FFL. Oregon closed the "gun show loophole" :barf: several years back (thus, ALL firearm transactions at a gunshow in OR require a background check now). That said, I dont know the exact law, or the exact specifics of it, but I'll see what I can find for you....

Here we go: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html
166.433 Findings regarding transfers of firearms. The people of this state find that:

(1) The laws of Oregon regulating the sale of firearms contain a loophole that allows people other than gun dealers to sell firearms at gun shows without first conducting criminal background checks;

(2) It is necessary for the safety of the people of Oregon that any person who transfers a firearm at a gun show be required to request a criminal background check before completing the transfer of the firearm; and

(3) It is in the best interests of the people of Oregon that any person who transfers a firearm at any location other than a gun show be allowed to voluntarily request a criminal background check before completing the transfer of the firearm. [2001 c.1 1]




Note: a "gun show" is defined (in the immediately preceeding ORS section quoted below) as any levent where 25 or more firearms are on site, and available to be sold.

166.432 Definitions for ORS 166.412 and 166.433 to 166.441. (1) As used in ORS 166.412, 166.433, 166.434, 166.436 and 166.438, “criminal background check” or “criminal history record check” means determining the eligibility of a person to purchase or possess a firearm by reviewing state and federal databases including, but not limited to, the:

(a) Oregon computerized criminal history system;

(b) Oregon mental health data system;

(c) Law Enforcement Data System;

(d) National Instant Criminal Background Check System; and

(e) Stolen guns system.

(2) As used in ORS 166.433, 166.434, 166.436, 166.438 and 166.441:

(a) “Gun dealer” has the meaning given that term in ORS 166.412.

(b) “Gun show” means an event at which more than 25 firearms are on site and available for transfer. [2001 c.1 3]



BUT, I'm not sure what this means right below ORS 166.432 (the immediately above quoted section), so maybe I'm wrong and it's just lasted as law, but is somehow unenforceable or something? honestly dont know what this means legally:
Note: 166.432, 166.433 and 166.445 were adopted by the people by initiative petition but were not added to ORS chapter 166 or any series therein. See Preface to Oregon Revised Statutes for further explanation.


OK, found out what the "Note" means. It is a lengthy, legaleese blather (IMHO) that DOES in fact say it IS still actual, enforceable law. I'm not scholarly enough to understand the point of the "Note" thing, but I do get the gist as it's still law, but is somehow not officially incorporated in a particular section (they call it an "editorial"). Heres the text from the Preface for the more learned in law to decipher, as maybe I'm misunderstanding (and I hope I am, and it's certainly possible)

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/
“Not added to and made a part of.” Notes may indicate that a particular ORS section was not added to and made a part of the ORS chapter or series in which the section appears. These notes mean that the placement of the section was editorial and not by legislative action. Notes also are used when the series references are either too numerous or too complex to bear further adjustment. However, the note does not mean that the section not added to a series or a chapter is any less the law. The note is intended only to remind the user that definitions, penalties and other references to the series should be examined carefully to determine whether they apply to the noted section.

Keaner
September 23, 2008, 05:36 PM
Yeah, but look at this note, it seems to be just 'findings', not law:

Note: 166.432, 166.433 and 166.445 were adopted by the people by initiative petition but were not added to ORS chapter 166 or any series therein. See Preface to Oregon Revised Statutes for further explanation.

Keaner
September 23, 2008, 05:38 PM
Actually, you are right I think, just wrong section of law:

166.438 Transfer of firearms at gun shows.(1) A transferor other than a gun dealer may not transfer a firearm at a gun show unless the transferor:

(a)(A) Requests a criminal background check under ORS 166.436 prior to completing the transfer;

(B) Receives notification that the recipient is qualified to complete the transfer; and

(C) Has the recipient complete the form described in ORS 166.441; or

(b) Completes the transfer through a gun dealer.

(2) The transferor shall retain the completed form referred to in subsection (1) of this section for at least five years and shall make the completed form available to law enforcement agencies for the purpose of criminal investigations.

(3) A person who organizes a gun show shall post in a prominent place at the gun show a notice explaining the requirements of subsections (1) and (2) of this section. The person shall provide the form required by subsection (1) of this section to any person transferring a firearm at the gun show.

(4) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if the transferee is licensed as a dealer under 18 U.S.C. 923.

(5)(a) Failure to comply with the requirements of subsection (1), (2) or (3) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this subsection, failure to comply with the requirements of subsection (1), (2) or (3) of this section is a Class C felony if the person has two or more previous convictions under this section.

(6) It is an affirmative defense to a charge of violating subsection (1) or (3) of this section that the person did not know, or reasonably could not know, that more than 25 firearms were at the site and available for transfer. [2001 c.1 7]

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 05:46 PM
I added the section from the "preface" that defines what a "Note" means while you were still posting. Take a look and see what you think it means. I get the impression it IS still law, but if thats the case, I dont get the point of the "Note", and why they say what they say. It does appear to be considered law though, according to the preface. Maybe its just because it was done through a petition/reforendum type thing from the "people", as opposed to being a bill passed by the legislature? thats all I can come up with to explain why they say its the law, but isnt in any actual ORS section.....

Keaner
September 23, 2008, 05:51 PM
good pickup on that other one JR. If you look at the one I quoted, 166.438, it does show that it is a Class A misdemeanor to transfer w/o a background check at a gun show, up to a Class C felony if you have two or more convictions under the section.

So OP, instead of the gun show, just buy via a F2F arranged by a forum somewhere.

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 05:51 PM
huh, the ORS 166.438 that I didnt see that you posted almost looks like the legislature DID eventually pass a "gun show loophole" bill AFTER the section I quoted for whatever reason, otherwise, I cant figure out why the "loophole" is closed twice, but in 2 different ways.

Regardless of which (or if both) is the ACTUAL law itself, it does boil down to the fact you need to get a background check thru a dealer at a gun show, even for private, FTF sales. (solution? tell the seller to meet you at Walmart to do the sale, thus, there is now sale at the "gun show", and no check needed ;). BUT, while that sounds good, it MAY be not allowed, or is in an "iffy" grey area, and may cause problems if an LEO see's how it went down, so I'd consult a lwayer, as I AM NOT advocating breaking or skirting the law, if that is the case with my suggestion.


I have to say that other than this thing, OR gun laws really are amongst some of the best I have ever seen, especially for a pretty liberal state.

Keaner
September 23, 2008, 05:54 PM
Strange, but good to know. The law does not seem to make any provision for where the trade was 'arranged', only where it takes place, so I don't think you are advocating lawbreaking.

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 06:00 PM
I dont think so either, but if you are obvious about it, and an LEO with a bug up his rump hears it, he/she MAY at least TRY to make an issue of it, and then it lawyer time, which is costly, even if you win, so I just wanted to add a little warning to at least be discreet, even if you really shouldnt have to, and its perfectly legal. In most parts of OR, it's probly a non-issue, but in, say, Portland, they arent very gun freindly, so they may want to push the issue (as they have done with other laws they KNEW, and were even TOLD by the AG, they couldnt enforce due to pre-emption. Some STILL took a court case for them to "wise up" as it were.

Probly not an issue here in Eugene, as they seem pretty gun friendly here (much to my surprise), as I OC here often, and have never had LEO's, or anyone else give me so much as a second glance, even though I have NEVER seen anyone else do it here, and I have done it many times, even right downtown in the library, so....

Cougfan2
September 23, 2008, 06:04 PM
Don't EVEN try to buy F2F at an Oregon gun show without having a dealer do a NICS check. Shortly after Oregon passed that law there were cases of undercover cops trying to entrap people into purchasing F2F without a NICS check. :cuss:

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 06:09 PM
Wasnt aware of that having happened for real (and I'm in NO way doubting you, just hadnt heard it before that I recall). Thanks for the confirmation of my suspicions. Thats EXACTLY the kind of thing I was meaning with my caveat, and the reason for my warning. Kinda good (yet sad at the same time) to know I was on to something, and not just being paranoid.

Bigfoot
September 24, 2008, 06:26 PM
Thanks guys. I might need to state my question more succinctly.

What information does Oregon record when I buy a rifle or shotgun from a dealer or at a show?

Exactly what do they know about the purchase?

I'm willing to go through the background check process. I'll pass any kind of test that they can think up. Except possibly an IQ test, they don't do those do they? :D I just don't want this California-wannabe government (I thought I'd left that idiocy far behind when I left CA years ago) knowing what I own if I can help it.

166.438 Transfer of firearms at gun shows.(1) A transferor other than a gun dealer may not transfer a firearm at a gun show unless the transferor:

(a)(A) Requests a criminal background check under ORS 166.436 prior to completing the transfer;

(B) Receives notification that the recipient is qualified to complete the transfer; and

(C) Has the recipient complete the form described in ORS 166.441; or

(b) Completes the transfer through a gun dealer.

(2) The transferor shall retain the completed form referred to in subsection (1) of this section for at least five years and shall make the completed form available to law enforcement agencies for the purpose of criminal investigations.


The leads me to believe that the purchase information stays with the seller for at least 5 years unless a crime is commited. Is this correct? So, unless a crime is commited Oregon doesn't know about my purchases?

BTW I'm just looking for hunting rifles and a shotgun. No evil looking, scary things if that matters.

Cougfan2
September 24, 2008, 06:30 PM
I should also mention that even if you meet someone at a gun show and want to buy their gun, but wait to leave the show and meet them to buy the gun they will still nail you if they catch you for trying to circumvent the NICS check. :fire:

Hawaiian
September 24, 2008, 09:26 PM
Simply stated. ANY firearm purchased at a gun show requires a background check. And the dealer will require you to fill out the same form that you complete when you buy a handgun, and provide a thumb print. The State Police are not supposed to keep a record of the purchase as firearms in Oregon are not requied to be registered. Do they delete the record? I doubt it. What do they do with the record. I have no idea.

If you live in Oregon you should pick up this book. Understanding Oregon's Gun Laws. You can purchase it . HERE (http://www.ofagear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=39&zenid=3e026134e90165bea7ad6db7f02c672b) It has the statue and also a plain language explanation of the laws.

jrfoxx
September 24, 2008, 09:52 PM
BIG +1 on that book. It's written by the founder of Oregon Firearms Federation, OR's premier gun rights group. I have it. Its clear, concise, factual, accurate, and well worth the $20 or so. Also, all OR people should check out thier site, and join OFF. Only $20 per year, and the money goes to a great group and great cause (they are the ones that jumped in and got the Portland port authority to stop enforcing thier illegal "no guns" rules at the airport, bus/train stations, etc, and supported the teacher with the R.O. on her psycho ex who wanted to not be fired for carrying at school (which is 100% leagal, BTW, they can just fire her)). I have NO affiliation with them other than being a supporter/member. Also, they can give you the contact info for a great lawyer that they routineliny use for gun cases, and who I have spoken too, and is a great guy, and is GENUINELY interested in helping gun owners, and specifically specializes in such cases, and isnt just some random ambulance chaser from the phone book.

http://oregonfirearms.org/

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