scary little jaunt to safeway


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KiltedClaymore
September 20, 2008, 09:48 PM
to mods: this may belong in tactics or somewhere else, i dont know. feel free to move.


now back to our regularly scheduled program...

so i took a walk down to the safeway about a mile from my house to get an onion and some burger buns. it's getting close to sunset, but no bad vibes in the air so far. as im standing on the side of this major street here called Northern (more like a freeway than a street to non-phoenix folks) waiting to cross (yes, i admit i jaywalk, but it shaves 5-10 minutes off my route) and i see this guy kinda hanging out in the shade of a large dumpster near the the alley that goes behind the store. didnt look too threatening at the time, even though he raised both arms in the universal signal for "you got a problem?!" when he saw me. i kinda adjusted my path across the street to give the guy a wide berth, but he moved to intercept me! at this point i my warning signals are going nuts, so i opened the knife that rides in the change pocket of my jeans and slipped it into my vest pocket for quicker access (god forbid it ever goes that far). no idea if the dude saw me do that, i was attempting to not show i had it. anywho, guy calls out "hold up a second!" and to be polite, i did:banghead:. guy introduces himself and ends up making no sense. tells me he just got outta jail, talks about his kids, said he was a navy seal, ect. never asks me for money, he did want to shake my hand about 5 times though:uhoh:. saw he had some old track marks on the inside of his elbow:what:. i had the feeling he was sizing me up, but i played it nice and polite (even though my right hand never left my vest pocket) and we went our seperate ways without incident. shook me up though!:o

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TonyB
September 20, 2008, 09:52 PM
it's like the saying:be courteous,be polite,but have a plan to kill everyone in the room.the may have been casing you,glad it ended well.

Standing Wolf
September 20, 2008, 09:58 PM
Shake hands with that sort? None for me, thanks—and anyway, in situations of that sort, my right hand stays on my gun butt.

Paranoid? Maybe so. Absolutely unwilling to get into wrestling matches with crazy types? Yep.

Treo
September 20, 2008, 10:01 PM
Did you shake his hand or allow him W/in arms length ?

(Yes I did read the line about your right hand not leaving your pocket, but dude could have grabbed your left)

I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to be rude to the guy, but given the way you say the interaction started, I don't see that you were obligated to be courteous.

KiltedClaymore
September 20, 2008, 10:05 PM
right hand stays on my gun butt. im 17. no gun here. my hand didnt leave my knife though!

i did shake his hand, but gripped it so i could *most likely* wrench my hand free. plus, i look/dress in a fairly agressive manner, so i can understand why he thought i "had a problem". he said (no im not inclined to belive strangers) he just wanted to make sure we were "cool" with each other.

kingpin008
September 20, 2008, 10:08 PM
Agreed. Be brisk, but friendly - make eye contact all the while and keep moving. Sometimes it is had to follow through on all that though - our societal sensors have us attuned to a different wavelength so often that it's tough to maintain proper alertness. Overall, I think you did alright. Glad he either wasn't up to no good after all, or just decided that you weren't a good enough target to deal with - nobody needs that trouble.

scrat
September 20, 2008, 10:09 PM
When you both walk away safe without an altercation. Then id say you did a good thing.

kingjoey
September 20, 2008, 10:19 PM
I used to live at 19th and Northern, never had more problems than when I lived there. Crackheads, thugs, and illegals everywhere, seems that something like what you mentioned was happening every couple months, moved down to CG and haven't had any real problems down here yet. Its nice having actual police response to problems rather than waiting for Phoenix PD to send a "reporter with a badge" after the bad guys are gone. PPD is really keen on avoiding any real police work :scrutiny:

KiltedClaymore
September 20, 2008, 10:21 PM
I used to live at 19th and Northern

yea im on 35th and northern.
PPD is really keen on avoiding any real police work

cause they know we shoot back at criminals

akodo
September 20, 2008, 10:35 PM
Remember, just because some guy never graduated from third grade, that doesn't mean all the deep cave man parts of his brain have shut off. Just like the stereotypical dumb yokle always comes home with the deer, in this case the dumb yokles are the urban uneducated, and YOU are the prey.

Remember, John Q badguy has probably been doing this for years, learning by trial and error, however slowly. He is probably pretty good at reading people, knowing who is a good target, even if it is just subconsious on his part.

What he was saying didn't make any sense because he wasn't talking to convey information, but as a timeinvestment so he could size you up. This is no different than a hunter with a call making a small noise just so the prey stops and wonders 'what the heck was that? sounded like one of us...kinda...but out of cont..WHAM ARROW TO THE CHEST'

He was most likely waiting for a lone person to mug. When he saw you, he though 'ahh easy prey! especially if I remain hidden'

But luckily you saw him. Some people would not change paths after seeing him, either out of stupidity, guilt, or the belief that if you ignore it-it will go away (or possibly mistakenly beleiving that altering your path makes you seem weak, which it might, but it also screws with their plan)

You spotted him and adjusted your path, but you were alone, so he went with plan B, where he would engage you inconversation and further size you up. Luckily he probably had that same tingling in the back of the neck that we all get, and probably read you as someone wiling to fight back, and with a concealed hand, probably armed. Criminals are going to notice these little details just as much as you notice his trackmarks.

Because you had determined to not be easy prey he sensed it and didn't strike.

Good outcome

KiltedClaymore
September 20, 2008, 10:51 PM
This is no different than a hunter with a call making a small noise just so the prey stops and wonders 'what the heck was that? sounded like one of us...kinda...but out of cont..WHAM ARROW TO THE CHEST'

even though this made me spray coke on my keyboard via my nose, its true.

personaly, if they act nice, i play nice. if they want to get mean, i just get meaner than them. im a firm beliver in the idea of having the capability to be just as mean and tough (or meaner and tougher) than your foe.

06
September 20, 2008, 11:02 PM
You let him into your "circle"-a complete stranger-and then let him gain control of your hand. Seems dangerous and glad you walked away. I am not that friendly with strangers and don't mind them knowing it-especially when alone and vulnerable. A trained person can easily put you on the ground and defenseless if allowed to get close. Please be aware that some people are plain mean with no conscious or concern for your peace or your life. wc

kingjoey
September 20, 2008, 11:52 PM
yea im on 35th and northern.


Ah yes, another nice neighborhood. We used to hang out at O'Briens over there before it became a dive.

akodo
September 21, 2008, 12:37 AM
personaly, if they act nice, i play nice. if they want to get mean, i just get meaner than them. im a firm beliver in the idea of having the capability to be just as mean and tough (or meaner and tougher) than your foe.

in general, yes, but in this case the guy was NOT acting nice.

if someone fails to trigger your 'this guy may be trouble' alarm, sure shake his hand. If some guy DOES trigger your 'this guy may be trouble' alarm, then common courtesy rules are null and void.

I'd rather have 10 cases of false positives on my 'bad guy radar' than 1 case of a failure to seperate resulting in me being robbed or worse

davepool
September 21, 2008, 01:25 AM
Phoenix has changed a lot, Northern from 19th to 35th used to be a pretty nice area.I live at the foot of the mountain where 15th ave dead ends north of Peoria, got a good line of sight on all the crack heads who live down the hill from me. I never walk in this neighborhood after dark without my G20.

conw
September 21, 2008, 01:30 AM
You didn't do terribly, but you did get lucky.

I had multiple encounters like that in my late teens. I was lucky too. But it was an eye-opener when I started realizing what was really going on.

The perfect response:

Keep walking.

If he keeps talking say "Not interested."

If he keeps following and it's an isolated area, if he's speeding up, say "Stop following me." That should get rid of this type of criminal mostly - you just need to sound like you know what the heck you're doing, what he's doing, and you aren't going to take it. He keeps following, you stop and square up to him and get ready to use some OC. Oh, carry OC spray.

The hand shaking: he was probably high, and he was definitely seeing how "polite" you are...being polite in the fact of a strung out junkie who is clearly sizing you up is a sign of weakness.

Not trying to bust your jewels here, but what were you gonna do with that knife if he grabbed ahold of you but he didn't have a weapon?

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 03:58 AM
Not trying to bust your jewels here, but what were you gonna do with that knife if he grabbed ahold of you but he didn't have a weapon?

well, due to the fact im only 5'8 and he was around 6'1-6'2 with about 50-60 pounds of advantage over me, i would have stuck him. plain and simple. now, thats not me being macho or exhibiting bloodlust, thats just how i would have reacted. i've been in situations before when my fighting insticts took over my actions and thoughts, and it wasnt a pretty aftermath. i got harassed by three dudes one day after school, and one kept pushing me. he finaly gathers the cajones to take a swing at me, and my reactionary insticts took over from there. ened up busting one guys nose, and wrenching anothers shoulder outta socket when i tried to pin his arm so he couldnt punch me. that was without a weapon (but against people my own age/size, and i didnt get out of the scrape before taking some good hits to the head/stomach), so im pretty sure that if the junkie had taken it to physical force he would have gotten cut.


i forgot to mention that the shoes i had on also were formidable weapons. getting kicked anywhere on your body by a Dr. Martin steel capped boot (the type that go 3/4 of the way up the calf) will make you howl (and think twice about wether or not you want to keep fighting the person wearing said boots). in fact, a well placed kick with that type of shoe to the knee or ankle can break bones to end the fight.

Mcuraddoc
September 21, 2008, 04:12 AM
The sad thing is..I know that Safeway...Glad it worked out okay.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 04:17 AM
The sad thing is..I know that Safeway


fun place at dusk isnt it?! :uhoh:

PTK
September 21, 2008, 04:23 AM
I generally do not allow strangers to touch me and immediately suspect pickpocket attempts or other illicit activities if contact is made.

If approached with anything seeming even slightly out of the ordinary, I generally have one of my hands on the butt of one of my guns. Heck, most of the time I'm walking around I'm ready to draw (and my SO is ready to draw the other if I draw one)

Basic idea is that if someone seems dangerous, I'll already be reacting to them. If they prove to be a threat, I am prepared to do what may be needed for myself and my loved ones to go home safely at the end of the day.

In a nutshell - go to punch me in the face/attack me/mug me/pull a knife/et cetera, and you're getting a loud command to stop followed by a VERY loud noise and acute pain if there isn't immediate compliance.

Side note; I've been told more than once that my idea of fighting isn't "fighting fairly". Good.

(and yes, I realize I stated "generally this" and "generally that" quite a bit. Situations involving people are never static, never black/white, and never predictable.)

SJgunguy24
September 21, 2008, 07:07 AM
I would really look into picking up a good flashlight. I carry a SurefireED2 Defender LED. That is bright enough to light up someone 50-75 yards away. Lets em' know your in condition yellow. Also that model has a strike bezel and since it's an LED it's shockproof,and has a 2 mode button. 1 mode is 5-10 lumin work light, 2nd mode is eye searing 125 lumins. Any time I walk by a door I stay a couple arm lengths away. More defencable space. Judo comes in handy if we have to roll. OC is a great idea too. Not sure about Arizona but here in Cali ya gotta be 18. Stay safe .........Never if at all possible give up wrist control. That can kill you,stick with "the pound" No exposed fingers and a fist is always a good thing

SCKimberFan
September 21, 2008, 07:46 AM
Before he got within arms distance of me, I would have made sure it wasn't going to happen. I don't let a stranger, especially one that is hanging around a dumpster, into my personal space.

Rustynuts
September 21, 2008, 08:11 AM
I would really look into picking up a good flashlight. I carry a SurefireED2 Defender LED.

Look into the Fenix brand of lights as well. Nice build quality and 225 lumens! Here's my TK10 & TK11 compared to a Surefire G3. The Fenix is all metal build with the crenelated strike bezel as well (although it's not very pointed/aggressive, still would hurt!)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/familypics001-13.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/Krustyboomer/familypics014.jpg

Starship1st
September 21, 2008, 08:22 AM
If you run across this guy again I would not allow him into your personal space. Pretend you can not shake hands due to a cold or injured hand.

It could be that he was sizing you up? Did you see him when you left Safeway? :cool:

LKB3rd
September 21, 2008, 08:26 AM
I think you got lucky. Any person hanging around a dumpster, striking up conversation with lone , young passers by, is likely sizing you up. Yea, this time he thought better of trying anything, but next time you might not be so lucky. I'd take it as a learning experience, and take steps to prevent it from happening again.
Even if you are confident in your self defense skills, consider what Sun Tzu said in "The Art of War" (good book): (paraphrased from memory) The best victory is the one where you never fight at all.

starboard
September 21, 2008, 08:36 AM
This

http://www.gpknives.com/item/emerson-combat-karambit-black.html

and OC are a fine combination if a gun for whatever reason is not an option. The karambit is difficult to disarm as the grip it affords is exceptionally strong, and the leverage for ripping is amazing. It's not a deep vitals stabber, obviously, but it is peerless for limb destruction and severing arteries.

Oh, and the "wave" feature allows you to open it with one hand very quickly and reliably indeed (not to mention that you can flick the blade open given the right pivot tension).

Carry it on the left side if you can do the southpaw, and if a hand shake should go wrong next time, you can disable the goblin's right arm in the next instant while he's "attached".

Better yet, no more handshakes. OC before they get that close, and then get away or go to town, depending on the circumstances. If you are trapped and facing multiple people, your best bet is a surprise offensive to take out the leader in the most heinous way possible. As the pack circles, they expect you to cower and retreat, and this you might do until the leader is within range, at which point you would attack with all you've got, covering whom you can with the OC on the way in.

Better yet, remember that your life is incomparably more important than complying with whatever regulation the breaking of which harms none. Look respectable*, walk confidently, and carry a small gun if you need a gun. The cops will not give you a second look given the sh*tbag density you describe, and no one will be the wiser unless you're in grave peril, at which point you'll be very glad to have it.

* The Doc Martens romper-stomper look may need adjustment if you require freedom from police scrutiny.

denfoote
September 21, 2008, 08:44 AM
I had the same thing happen to me several years ago.
I was walking home from the drug store when a couple of gangpunks followed me across the parking lot. One of them had his hand under his shirt as if her were holding something. At that time, I was not in possession of a valid Arizona CCW, so I was carrying openly, which is lawful to do in my state. I simply turned so that the punks could see that Taurus 605 on my hip with my hand very close to the grip. After conferring among themselves in Spanish (guess what kind of gangpunks they were), they decided that an armed target was not their cup of cervesa!!

This also reveals why I support open carry!!

Rustynuts
September 21, 2008, 09:22 AM
This http://www.gpknives.com/item/emerson...bit-black.html
Anything like that a bit cheaper? Haven't gotten into "nice" knives, so I'm sure this is a typical price, but I choked a little on it!

On the OC thing, do most/all that OC use retention type holsters? I would think that would be prudent to keep it from falling out or grabbed. I've read where some recommend a cross-draw with OC since it's hard to rip the gun out from behind? True or internet myth?

bdickens
September 21, 2008, 10:25 AM
Criminal-element types often rely on the fact that most people have been taught to be "nice" to their advantage. They use that fact to get close during the victim-selection process. If you are "not nice," that often puts you in the category of not-victim.

"Not nice" of course does not mean rude or agressive. It means more stand-offish.

beatcop
September 21, 2008, 11:10 AM
There are plenty of harmless nuts out there, might have been one...may also have been a crook. Best to ignore and keep going. If your pride hurts yell to your imaginary friend in the distance "Hey Bill wait up!" and kick it up to a jog.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 01:16 PM
It could be that he was sizing you up? Did you see him when you left Safeway?

i left out a different door than i entered so i could walk across the parking lot farther away to see if he was anywhere nearby. he wasnt. still was pretty jumpy until i got inside my house though.

Even if you are confident in your self defense skills, consider what Sun Tzu said in "The Art of War" (good book): (paraphrased from memory) The best victory is the one where you never fight at all.


read it. love it. and i agree 100%. my favorite quote is "always let your enemy underestimate you"

starboard, thats a nasty little ripper there! i had a CRKT M-16 (http://www.gpknives.com/item/columbia-river-carson-m16-13.html) with me, so it wasnt a "small" knife in the strictest sense.

The Doc Martens romper-stomper look may need adjustment if you require freedom from police scrutiny.

no need. never even had a cop give me a second glance. they know someone who dresses in an overt agressive/criminal way is *usualy* going to try and stay outta trouble (because they know/think that cops keep an eye on them). or maybe it's just that i have an "honest" face (even though looks can/are deceiving). plus, i walk confidently in the open instead of lurking in shadows.

wleggart
September 21, 2008, 01:41 PM
I saw a fellow on a bike in the Kroger parking lot on my way back to my truck, and my alarms started screaming. I got into my truck and in the next row over he had a lady trapped with her driver side door open and a small child in the front seat. I got around into the lane behind her car in time to just miss him as her took off with her purse. I had every intention of accidentally running him over with the only weapon I had: a yukon denali! My wilson .45 is locked and cocked in the closed arm rest under my right arm. The lady was very shaken up, but unhurt. Not long after that I was getting into my Tundra and a well dressed young man got way too close and I was not able to get the door closed. My right hand gave him the STOP gesture, my voice (the one you use when the dog is just starting to shake your wifes cat) BACK OFF! and luckily I was safe. It could have been much worse. I am very careful about what is going on around me. I agree that I am willing to REALLY offend an innocent person when it's myself or my family that I think might be in jepordy.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 01:45 PM
yukon denali

what caliber does that fire? one-shot manstopper:neener:? might be frowned on by the cops, it's only a purse. more of a pain to freeze credit cards and get driver's licences replaced than anything.

MacTech
September 21, 2008, 02:01 PM
Anything like that a bit cheaper? Haven't gotten into "nice" knives, so I'm sure this is a typical price, but I choked a little on it!

Spyderco has their line of "Waved" knives, the Delica (3" blade) and the Endura (4" blade) with the Emerson wave, Spyderco licensed the patent from Ernie Emerson and they're made with his permission

I EDC a D4 Wave and it's a great EDC knife, Spyderco's Wave feature works even better than the original Emerson wave

jonmerritt
September 21, 2008, 02:43 PM
I would have not let him get that close, I would have said "thats far enough" when he got into to my *** zone. What he did befor that was aggressive behavior, (in anybodies book), and would have made me aggressive defensive, avoid him, YES. Then he comes at you, problems, and make him aware. I think you got very lucky, this time.

wagoneer1019
September 21, 2008, 03:11 PM
I work on 27th ave and south of vanburen, I have a scarry little jaunt to work every day. I don't feel as helpless sence my boss lets me ccw.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 03:49 PM
this time

i've been unlucky before. being young and dumb, i decided to fight with a guy when he tried to jack my wallet outta my back pocket. he got the wallet, and i got to go to the ER for 20 stitches in my leg. thats the reason i began to carry a knife (or roll of quarters/nickles) with me just about everywhere i go.

SCKimberFan
September 21, 2008, 05:18 PM
what caliber does that fire?

6.2L :D

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 06:09 PM
might get me one of these too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubaton

denfoote
September 21, 2008, 07:30 PM
might get me one of these too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubaton

I had one!!
I don't remember where I got it.
It was either from the MCSO posse or Phoenix PD at the state fair.
I carried it for years.
I even carried it into the protected area at Palo Verde, that is, until after 911!!!
For some strange reason security got real cranky about it, even though I knew most of the officers and they had seen it on the x-ray belt for years!! :rolleyes:
They made me take it apart and gave me the baton back when I left site at the end of shift!! :banghead:

The baton is squirreled away somewhere.
I might just go on a hunt for it and reassemble the beast!! :cool:

woodfiend
September 21, 2008, 07:45 PM
Hey, nice staying tight there. I too am 17 and I carry a CRKT Desert Big Dog EVERYWHERE I go except for school. I have been in a situation like that before where there was no immediate threat, but stay ready to do business.

woodfiend
September 21, 2008, 07:48 PM
Also, one thing you might want to get is a good tactical light. I carry my Streamlight Scorpion at night sometimes. It shines 114 lumens I think and is only about 35 bucks. Great tool for disruption if one were so unfortunate to be in front of it.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 07:56 PM
well, a light is a good idea, but this little incident happened right before sunset (when it seems like the sun gets much brighter, at least out here). so a light would have just been a club. if im fighting with someone bigger than me, im going to stab the man (but with my over-active adrenaline glans pumping full bore, it wouldnt be just one to ten stabs :what:) and end the fight quickly instead of beating him about the head with a flashlight for 5 minutes. no offence, thats just me.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 08:38 PM
just remembered something that made this encounter extra-odd with a side order of scary. as im walking away, the dude says "well, i'll see you around!" in an extra cheery kind of voice :uhoh:. took things to a new level of creepy i never knew existed...

neviander
September 21, 2008, 09:15 PM
it's like the saying:be courteous,be polite,but have a plan to kill everyone in the room.the may have been casing you,glad it ended well.
lol, that's fantastic!

Kubaton sounds like a good idea, but it seems like you would need a fair amount of training to use it effectively.

No one has mentioned the shark bumping yet, so I will. Even a shark bumps it's prey before attacking it. You sound like you've got your head screwed on pretty straight, for a 17 year old :) way to be responsible.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 09:17 PM
way to be responsible

but they still wont issue me a CCW! :p:neener::o:(:D:banghead:


Kubaton sounds like a good idea, but it seems like you would need a fair amount of training to use it effectively.


not really. simple hammer strikes to the eyes, temples, back of the head at the base of skull, knees, elbows, ect. im sure catching one in the ear canal would be bad too.

evan price
September 21, 2008, 09:19 PM
When this sort of thing happens, do not acknowledge them, do not allow them to get that close to you, do not allow them to force you to do what they want. The handshake thing is a great way to get you off balance and get one hand under control. You should consider yourself lucky this didn't go more wrong.

If he won't take no for an answer and keeps closing in, "BACK THE **** OFF!" in a calm but commanding voice while you keep walking away usually works. Don't stop. Even if he gives you the old "You got a problem, punk?" kind of speech, Ignore & Leave!

neviander
September 21, 2008, 09:22 PM
but they still wont issue me a CCW!
Well, here in Texas you can carry around any style of rifle or shotgun openly and it's totally legal, just so long as you're not pointing it at anyone as your walking around. I imagine if you've got a levergun or an AR slung around your shoulder, walking down the street, not a lot of people are going to mess with you. In fact you'd probably get more static from the cops than you would with the bad boy homies.

mp510
September 21, 2008, 09:23 PM
It sounds to me like you over-reacted. It sounds to me that he was a panhandler, not an assailant. But I wasn't there, and I don't know your neighborhood characters.

If the situation was as grave as you make it seem, you really screwed up- bigtime, almost. If you were concerned enough to be ready to get into a knife fight with him, why did you cross the street in such a way to put yourself in a position to make contact? Had you went a little out of your way, you could have avoided the situation altogether. Yet, you chose not to. How would it sound, if you had to justify your actions, and you admitted that you saw it coming, had the oppertunity to avoid confrontation, and then OPTED to move forth towards the individual you thought was going to assault you.

You got lucky that nothing happened this time. Otherwise, you would be in a world of hurt right now.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 09:31 PM
"BACK THE **** OFF!" in a calm but commanding voice while you keep walking away usually works.

im just too nice to do that unless provoked

really, if someone (i mean 99% of the folks out there) wants to talk to me, i'll chat with them. bum asks for some change, i'll give him it if i have any. unless im under direct physical attack or severely provoked ("dont poke the bear"), im a very laid back and peaceful person. but that doesnt make me prey because it allows me to get a clear reading of someone's vibe, therefore finding their true intentions. im also constantly sizing EVERYBODY up, no matter who they are or what they look like. i let my enemy underestimate me, handing me the advantage.


why did you cross the street in such a way to put yourself in a position to make contact? Had you went a little out of your way, you could have avoided the situation altogether.

i did move. he moved to intercept. also, pan handlers ask for money strait off. he didnt. he never ONCE asked for money. it never even came up in the conversation.

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 09:37 PM
oh, and neviander, Arizona does too. but a rifle is long and bulky, not lending it'sself to quick deployment in a confrontation such as this one.

conw
September 21, 2008, 10:28 PM
To whoever said he "overreacted"...what could he have possibly done to make you say that, other than posting about it on THR? He catered to the panhandler/bum in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.

Also, hardware is great, but I don't care if you have a kubotan, a rifle, a knife, open-carried oleoresin capsicum and an open carried 44, you need to just figure out how to not be in a (highly questionable in a legal sense) position of talking to someone who you would stab if they reached their hand out to grab you...

KiltedClaymore
September 21, 2008, 10:31 PM
they reached their hand out to grab you...

oh, that would result in me removing the knife from my pocket and doing all i can to make it inside the store (then calling cops). if he actually got ahold of me to pull me in, thats when the knife would have been used. maybe i failed to express that. sorry all.

IndianaBoy
September 22, 2008, 02:42 PM
I have had characters like that try to 'talk' to me before. It is generally an attempt at something nefarious even if they are simply sizing you up.

I have no inclination to talk to scum after everything that has been going on in and around Columbia lately. I am no longer polite.

brhodes
September 22, 2008, 03:10 PM
I've also become fairly impolite (or, at least, unsociable) in certain public situations. Maybe it's that I'm older now and have more to lose, but I don't see any real value in having conversations with folks rooting around in dumpsters. I agree that it sounds selfish, but I don't know what I'd hope to gain from an exchange like that. How could our interaction possibly enrich *both* our lives?

Having said that, I can think of many things he'd stand to gain. Most of those come at my expense, in varying degrees starting with a dime and ending with my life. If it's a situation where someone needs a hand, I'm glad to help. But in cases like yours, you have to ask yourself "Why has he initiated this interaction?"

Someone at loose ends like him needs to maximize his gain and minimize his loss. In other words, he doesn't have the luxury of striking up a new friendship with a complete stranger that you and I enjoy. Therefore, his intent is to gain something in some way. My prediction is that 99 times out of 100, that gain comes at your loss.

When in a similar situation, ask yourself what it is that you are prepared to lose, and then deal with the situation accordingly. If it's a couple bucks for a guy walking down a hot street holding a gas can, stop and give him a buck or two if you like. If it's a fellow who wants "a couple bucks to get food", same deal. But be aware that in both cases, you run a risk of losing more than you might want to, and so that's why you have to stay prepared and make the decision to engage well beforehand if possible.

Lately, my unsociability has taken the form of actively discouraging the type of encounter that you had. I feel that in the long run I'll be better off for it, and I no longer care to meet new people who have less to lose than I do. I've met interesting people and been in interesting/fun situations in past random public encounters, but I have no desire for that sort of thing any more. Which means, following the above, that I stand to not gain because I don't wish to meet new people and get involved in new situations. But that's an OK choice for me, because what I could lose is much, much more than anything I could possibly have gained.

Halo
September 22, 2008, 03:19 PM
You might have inadvertently stumbled upon a shooting gallery. If he had marks from pumping smack into his arm he was almost certainly sizing you up for any cash or valuable he could get -- expensive habit and all that.

fiddleharp
September 22, 2008, 03:53 PM
So far, I haven't read all three pages of this thread, so if somebody already covered what I'm about to say, please forgive me.
Has it occurred to anyone that this guy was just a homeless mental case in whose mind it made perfect sense to stop a stranger and talk nonsense?
I've been a longtime volunteer at our local homeless coalition/soup kitchen. I run into all kinds of zany characters. Many of them are mentally ill. Fortunately, almost all of them are entirely harmless.
In the original post no mention was made of his appearance other than being a "guy" and something about needle tracks.
From what little information I was able to gather, it sounds doubtful you were dealing with a mugger, just a nutcase.

KiltedClaymore
September 22, 2008, 06:10 PM
he didnt look like a nut. actually, he was dressed kinda normal(then again, i dont dress myself in "normal" style). a yellow (god-awful color in my oppinion) wife beater and tan shorts. neither item were dirtier than one would expect "casual relaxation" clothes (like the stained but dead-comfortable pair of jeans we all own) to be. sneakers and tube socks in the area of footwear. all fairly normal for a warm arizona evening.

he did set down a can of steel reserve to come "chat" with me, so he may have been a drunk. who knows, it was just unnerving.

alde
September 22, 2008, 07:06 PM
Has it occurred to anyone that this guy was just a homeless mental case in whose mind it made perfect sense to stop a stranger and talk nonsense?


At what point would the OP determin this? After he has a knife in his ribs or been pulled down to the ground? When you have limited info you need to react with you instincts and not try to be polite because he may just be some guy with mental problems.

BruceRDucer
September 22, 2008, 08:00 PM
Hey Kilted, luckily you came away okay.:)
/
anywho, guy calls out "hold up a second!"

That's the time to keep walking, and say "Nope, nope, nope, got no time to spare." and keep on truckin.

Here's the idea. It's the people you don't even know who typically attempt to assert some form of vague SOCIAL OBLIGATION.

I mean, after all, just because the guy says something, does not mean we are obligated. Blow them off as quickly as you can. Don't let them hold you up.

Looks like he might have been gorfing on dope anyway.

:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

ezypikns
September 22, 2008, 09:13 PM
When someone like that approaches or calls out, I keep right on walking. Of course, I'm also keeping this individual within sight, and loooking out for any buddies he may have stashed around. DON'T be afraid to be unfriendly.

dalepres
September 22, 2008, 11:00 PM
First off, you don't know what diseases were in those handshakes. There is no reason at all that you have to be friendly to a person like that. When a stranger tries to enter your defensive circle, I suggest putting up your hand in the universal "STOP" sign and giving a firm, "That's close enough." Never let him touch you.

KiltedClaymore
September 22, 2008, 11:23 PM
First off, you don't know what diseases were in those handshakes.

well now, its a good thing im up to date on all my shots. and even though my immune system is tough as nails, i gotta agree with that comment.

BruceRDucer
September 23, 2008, 06:11 AM
Well, you've probably already got Cooties...:what:

conw
September 24, 2008, 12:36 AM
The unfriendly people here are right and I agree with them.

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