buying handgun under 21


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1858rem
September 21, 2008, 08:16 PM
i read elsewhere on this site that in some states you can buy a handgun legally secondhand.... this was only hinted at, and i was wondering if anybody knew anymore about this, being legal anyhow... and if it is true for north Carolina?:scrutiny:

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NonConformist
September 21, 2008, 08:34 PM
Not sure for NC, check your laws.

In Florida its illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a Handgun from an FFL, however, there is no law, state or federal, prohibiting you from buying a handgun in a FTF transaction as long as your are 18.

Your state may have a different law, but here its only illegal to transfer a gun to a minor(less than 18)

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 08:53 PM
i read elsewhere on this site that in some states you can buy a handgun legally secondhand.... this was only hinted at, and i was wondering if anybody knew anymore about this, being legal anyhow... and if it is true for north Carolina?

The Brady Bunch is helpful sometimes.:)

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=nc#juvsale

JUVENILE SALE
Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21.

Now go out and buy your gun!

1858rem
September 21, 2008, 08:56 PM
ill check up on it before i do this for sure.... but are you saying as long as im 18 i could buy a handgun, as long as it is not from the store/manufacture? private party right?

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 09:01 PM
ill check up on it before i do this for sure.... but are you saying as long as im 18 i could buy a handgun, as long as it is not from the store/manufacture? private party right?

Right!
Make the Brady's and VPC types more miserable and go out and get your gun.
Congratulations and stay safe.

1858rem
September 21, 2008, 09:02 PM
cool thanks!

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 09:17 PM
cool thanks!

You're welcome.And because I know you want to be 100% sure, here is the relevant North Carolina Statute:

14‑269.7. Prohibitions on handguns for minors.

(a) Any minor who possesses or carries a handgun is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

(b) This section does not apply:

(1) To officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties or acting under orders requiring them to carry handguns.

(2) To a minor who possesses a handgun for educational or recreational purposes while the minor is supervised by an adult who is present.

(3) To an emancipated minor who possesses such handgun inside his or her residence.

(4) To a minor who possesses a handgun while hunting or trapping outside the limits of an incorporated municipality if he has on his person written permission from a parent, guardian, or other person standing in loco parentis.

(c) The following definitions apply in this section:

(1) Handgun. – A firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, or any combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.

(2) Minor. – Any person under 18 years of age. (1993, c. 259, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 5; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 1.)

NonConformist
September 21, 2008, 09:20 PM
Looks like you're good! Now go and do your duty and make a liberal cry

I recommend an HK or SIG is you can afford it! A USP was my first and its still running strong!

22-rimfire
September 21, 2008, 09:26 PM
Yes to 18 years old or over as long as you are a resident of the same state as the seller.

VARifleman
September 21, 2008, 09:30 PM
There are only 2 things you have to worry about under 21 in NC when doing a private party pistol purchase.

1. You STILL need a pistol purchase permit, so if your sheriff says no, you're out of luck.

And the one that affects everyone everywhere...

2. You need to find a pistol that you want, from someone knowledgeable enough in the gun laws to understand that it's legal. It took me until I was almost 21 to get past this one, and I didn't have to worry about #1 because I live in VA.

NonConformist
September 21, 2008, 09:35 PM
You have to have that crap in NC too!

*** has this antion gone....I know about the 'normal suspects' Kali, NY/J Maryland etc, but NC??? :what:

VARifleman
September 21, 2008, 09:39 PM
1919 jim crow law is at fault. Still on the books and heralded by certain...politicians.

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 09:42 PM
1. You STILL need a pistol purchase permit, so if your sheriff says no, you're out of luck.

Good point Rifleman,but because NC State law allows 18 year old's to buy FTF private or by being gifted,very few Sheriffs in this State will deny,IMO.
But.....a valid point to bring up.
My money's on 1858rem getting his gun.:)
1858,please let us know how you made out.
NonConformist,NC is sometimes called the Mass.of the South.
We have far too many off limits areas and strange rules and as a result the Brady's think we are 13 from the top.
So we have a lot of work to do here.

VARifleman
September 21, 2008, 09:53 PM
Here in Wake County it has been reported to occur.

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 10:05 PM
Here in Wake County it has been reported to occur.

Well,Wake is pretty close to being Mass. so I can see that being a possibility!:D

mnrivrat
September 21, 2008, 10:17 PM
1. You STILL need a pistol purchase permit, so if your sheriff says no, you're out of luck.

To clarify :

Are you saying that a permit to purchase a handgun is required for person to person (non-FFL) sales in NC ?

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 10:34 PM
To clarify :

Are you saying that a permit to purchase a handgun is required for person to person (non-FFL) sales in NC ?

This unfortunately appears to be the case.See this Statute:

http://www.grnc.org/firearms.htm#requirements

B. North Carolina Requirements - (back to top) -

As previously stated, effective December 1, 1995, North Carolina's pistol permitting laws qualify as an alternative to the requirements of the Brady law. Therefore, when a person desires to purchase a handgun from a federally licensed dealer the person need comply solely with North Carolina's pistol permit laws and present a valid permit to purchase a handgun. As always, any other transfer between private individuals is also governed by North Carolina's Pistol permit laws.

Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the State any pistol unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the Sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina.

VARifleman
September 21, 2008, 10:34 PM
Any handgun sale to a person who does not have an NC CCW.

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 10:41 PM
Any handgun sale to a person who does not have an NC CCW.

And in NC the minimum age for CCW is 21.
See why the Brady's have us ranked in their "top 13"?

VARifleman
September 21, 2008, 10:42 PM
You hadn't posted yet when I started to post that. I have gotten into heated arguments here in NC when I say that the laws here are worse than in VA. I still hold that it's true.

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 10:50 PM
You hadn't posted yet when I started to post that. I have gotten into heated arguments here in NC when I say that the laws here are worse than in VA. I still hold that it's true.

I beat you by 5 seconds!
No question,Virginia wins hands down.A few quirks but fewer off limits,more acceptable to OC,banks are OK,restaurants with alcohol OC'ing (quirky) are OK,no purchase permit needed and more.
Virginia is miles ahead.
No argument,my friend.

mnrivrat
September 22, 2008, 12:21 AM
Thanks Duke --- Wow , I didn't think state law there was that restrictive .

Then in order to be a legal owner of a handgun you would need to be not only 18, but would have to have a permit as well. That's not the case in most states that I'm aware of, and of course goes beyond federal law requirements. Good to know.

VARifleman
September 22, 2008, 01:02 AM
You need a permit to transfer a handgun, not to own and possess.

Duke Junior
September 22, 2008, 02:07 AM
Then in order to be a legal owner of a handgun you would need to be not only 18, but would have to have a permit as well. That's not the case in most states that I'm aware of, and of course goes beyond federal law requirements. Good to know. mnrivrat quote

You need a permit to transfer a handgun, not to own and possess. VARifleman quote

Right.min,read that last paragraph carefully:

"Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the State any pistol unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the Sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina."

See the Catch-22 for the OP who at this moment in time neither owns or possesses a handgun?

Judicator
September 22, 2008, 02:22 AM
I got a funny story about minors and handguns: There was this kid I used to work with, name is withheld to protect the guilty, he was 19 or 20 at the time, and another guy sold him a .22 magnum derringer and a Taurus .357 magnum snubnose.

Well, within a couple months, this kid gets pulled over by a local cop for running a red light. The cop talks to him and somehow notices one of the handguns on the seat, I don't remember exactly how the story went on that point, it might have been in a carrying case or something.

Anyway, this cop finds both the handguns in the cab of this kid's pickup. And, of course, the kid has no CCW permit, because he's only 20. Cop goes into arrest mode, frisks him, slaps on the cuffs, etc. Interestingly enough, the cop's main concern was that the kid had the handguns and he was under 21, not so much that he was carrying concealed weapons in his car.

The kid knew Oregon law enough that he managed to convince the cop to check the regulations, and after some discussion, the cop realizes that the kid is correct. He decides to give him a brief lesson/lecture on how to correctly carry handguns so that it is not illegal, i.e., outside of the passenger area of the vehicle, and then lets him go.

The cop took the kids word for it that the handguns belonged to him, even though he had no bill of sale or receipt from the person he bought them from, and he most certainly did not get them from a gun shop. The cop also missed the ounce of pot the kid had in his hip pocket during the frisk. Kid drove away with a warning.

LongHairedHippy
September 22, 2008, 02:36 AM
no way does a cop miss an ounce. that's a sizable physical quantity.

Duke Junior
September 22, 2008, 02:45 AM
no way does a cop miss an ounce. that's a sizable physical quantity.

Not if properly concealed.
Also cop may have been tired,near end of shift,had a pressing engagement or a multitude of other human conditional situations.
I can believe it.

Almond27
September 22, 2008, 02:57 AM
Oh a cop can miss an ounce its possible

mnrivrat
September 22, 2008, 04:06 AM
You need a permit to transfer a handgun, not to own and possess.

How would you be able to own, and or possess it without receiving it ? State law seems to say you need the permit to receive it from pretty much any source, so I guess I missed something ?

Edit : Perhaps if you possess it prior to moving to the state , so that is what I may have missed

NavyLCDR
September 22, 2008, 08:47 AM
Yes, if you brought it into the state because you previously owned it when you moved to NC, or you got it by bequest in a will from an out of state relative, you went to that state to take possession of it, then brought it back to NC.

VARifleman
September 22, 2008, 11:10 AM
Also, mnrivrat, once you take possession of the handgun after the sale, you no longer have the pistol purchase permit. It seemed like you were implying that you need to have in your possession a permit for a handgun, if you own that handgun, but that is not the case.

NG VI
September 22, 2008, 11:53 AM
I got my first pistol (first gun ever) at 18, an HK USP like an earlier poster, and it was good. I bought my second two at 19, though I foolishly sold one of them not long after, and my first revolver I actually had to help the guy find the relevant legal OK because I had just turned twenty and he was unsure.

So good luck, get something you really want and be safe with it.

1858rem
October 8, 2008, 02:53 PM
i think i decided to go with the 45 colt conversion cylinder w/loading gate for my 1858 .44 Remington an just use reloads, not much more expensive than .22's i figure about 6 cents a shot if you cast your own booooolits:D for $275 its an ok deal to be able to shoot 45 colt, looks AWESOME too, 14.5 inch gun and a 8" barrel lol

kurtmax
October 8, 2008, 03:57 PM
The cop took the kids word for it that the handguns belonged to him, even though he had no bill of sale or receipt from the person he bought them from, and he most certainly did not get them from a gun shop.

Huh? I don't have bills of sale for any of my firearms. I don't need to prove I own them. If a cop takes my firearms because of this there are going to be lawyers involved.

Also, I don't carry receipts for my watch/clothes/mobile phone/wallet/bottled water. Why aren't those taken as well?

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2008, 01:34 AM
The cop took the kids word for it that the handguns belonged to him, even though he had no bill of sale or receipt from the person he bought them from, and he most certainly did not get them from a gun shop.

And that is absolutely the way it should be. Like stated above, a lawfully transported or carried handgun is no different than a lawfully worn wristwatch.

Killermonkey21
October 9, 2008, 07:51 AM
Cumberland County, its possible. I am a 19 year olf active duty Army service member, and I had to explain to them the laws. Got my Pistol Purchase Permits to prove it. Got a HK USP 9 compact from a member here, and a NIB S&W M&P .45 full size at a gun show.

The hard part is keeping the range attendants from noticing your mil ID says you were born in 89 :)

If you want more info, send me a PM.

sentientpain
January 8, 2009, 09:27 PM
Hey people!.. got a long question that is complicated that ive been researching (and i know how this gunlaw researching thing goes) I am in the military and stationed in colorado AND I dont turn 21 till august... and my dad bought me a Taurus PT 24/7 pro DS .45 handgun that he is gifting to me.. i'm planning on driving home to Georgia where my dad lives to do the paperwork and im just wondering if anyone has any good information on the legalities of this gifting to someone in another state (Haven't been in colorado a year so my home state of residency should still be Georgia, Plus im military so any stipulations should be ruled out anyhow since i can buy firearms out of state with my orders) Also wondering if it would be legal for me to drive from home to colorado with it (being between 18 and 21) from what i have read, i can possess it but not carry it. What is the definition of carrying a handgun? wearing it on my person? does having it in my car count as carrying it? As far as i know and researched it is legal, but its just questionable. I think all these laws should be clearly accessible for each county, city, state.. etc. but god knows we cant ask obama for that... dont want to remind him that you can aquire a handgun at 18 legally.. :banghead:

mnrivrat
January 9, 2009, 01:27 AM
Unless Georgia has some special state registration I don't know of, I don't believe there is any paperwork you need to do there to take position of your gift.

As far as transporting it, it must be unloaded and in a completely inclosed case, out of reach while driving (trunk is best). Carrying is totaly different than transporting it.

NavyLCDR
January 9, 2009, 02:16 AM
+1 what mnivrt said.

A few things to consider:
For the purpose of firearms, the minute that you check into your command in Colorado on your Permanent Change of Station orders, you are a Colorado resident. There is no length of residency requirement. Your active duty ID card + your orders makes you a Colorado resident to an FFL. Now, you can't buy a handgun or handgun ammo from an FFL until you are 21.

Unless you actually maintain a physical residence in Georgia that you spend part of the year actually living in, you are NOT (for the purposes of firearms transactions) a Geordia resident, even though you possess a Georgia driver's license. Now, let's say that your spouse remained in Georgia with a house there that you contributed towards the income of. When you went back to stay in that house, then you would be a Georgia resident for the time you were living in that house. But, unless you have an address in Georgia that you get mail at and pay bills for, you aren't, for firearms purposes, a Georgia resident any more.

So, technically, by the letter of the law (18 USC 922), a Colorado FFL must transfer the handgun to you and the handgun must be delivered to the Colorado FFL by the giftor/seller (IE your dad) or by a Georgia FFL.... you cannot take the handgun yourself to the Colorado FFL.

Now, on the High Road, I would never advocate doing anything illegal. But I might offer an opinion that the easiest thing for you to do would be just for dad to give you the handgun, no paperwork. If you do the transfer at a Georgia FFL, you are actually committing more felonies because you are lying on the 4473 when you say you are a Georgia resident, if you don't meet the conditions of physically residency above. If you were a Georgia resident, it would be perfectly legal for dad just to give the handgun to you, no paperwork required.

Transport the handgun back to Colorado according to FOPA (google FOPA, it is actually 18 USC 926a). Which is unloaded handgun and ammo (I would have dad "give" you plenty of ammo) locked in the trunk. If you are in a van or SUV or something that doesn't have a trunk, then the ammo and unloaded handgun must be in a locked case (NOT in the glovebox) to keep both separated from the occupants of the vehicle by a lock.

The good news is, because you are active duty military, even though not legally a Georgia resident anymore, you can carry concealed or open in Georgia, without a permit, in any place that a LEO can. That is only Georgia state law, and does not apply anywhere else.

Hope this helps. If you need further info, such as where what I have posted is published, feel free to PM me or ask here.

sentientpain
January 9, 2009, 05:44 PM
I really appreciate it guys thanks for the help

sentientpain
January 9, 2009, 05:55 PM
one more thing.. i was talking to my local FFL about having the gun shipped, and he told me that it would require the background check of which wouldn't let me aquire the firearm even though it was gifted to me by my dad.. anyone know any way to recieve a gifted handgun throuh an FFL being under 18? Im in no big hurry at all.. i just wanted to have a handgun before obama gets inaugurated, and i technically own it already

joker4096
January 9, 2009, 06:03 PM
you cannot buy a handgun through an ffl and be underage. you have to receive it face to face from your dad. FFl must do a background check i believe, actually they might not have to but its illegal for them to give it to an underage

NavyLCDR
January 9, 2009, 06:57 PM
anyone know any way to recieve a gifted handgun throuh an FFL being under 18?

I think you meant under 21. And there is no legal way to receive the gifted handgun from the FFL until you are 21, he must give it to you FTF. Like stated above, he cannot ship it to you across state lines, it has to be shipped to an FFL, so the only alternative is FTF.

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