Selling a firearm to an individual?


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powwowell
September 21, 2008, 09:22 PM
What do I have to do, to be 100% law abiding, when selling a firearm to another resident in NC? How about a resident in another state?

For instance, do I have an FFL holder ship the gun to another FFL holder? Is this how the firearm is taken off the list of firearms registered to me?

Larry

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WhisperFan
September 21, 2008, 10:05 PM
*snip* ... How about a resident in another state?

For instance, do I have an FFL holder ship the gun to another FFL holder?

For out of state transfers, the firearm must be shipped to an FFL in the state of the buyer. The Federal regulation does not require that the sender be and FFL as well, but some FFLs will not accept a firearm from a non-FFL.

What do I have to do, to be 100% law abiding, when selling a firearm to another resident in NC?

As far as Federal regulations are concerned, an in-state sale can be done face-to-face (I do not know if NC requires anything more than that - it would be a state law at that level.)

Is this how the firearm is taken off the list of firearms registered to me?
There should be no such list. There is no 'gun registration' per se at the Federal level (excpet NFA items - and even that list has many, many omissions and errors)

LKB3rd
September 21, 2008, 10:09 PM
State to state requires an FFL. Private sales don't require anything other than that you aren't aware that they are unable to legally own firearms. Some states, like CT, require paperwork for handgun sales private or not. If it is legal to sell privately without paperwork, personally I wouldn't worry about getting it out of your name, since it being in your name in the first place is pretty pointless if people are allowed to sell without paperwork. If they ever come asking where it is, you say " I sold it." To whom? You could either tell them, or say you don't know because you didn't keep paperwork.
Check your state laws, but I don't think NC has "registration"(confiscation shopping list) anyway. Also check your state laws re: private sales, but most states allow them without paperwork.

22-rimfire
September 21, 2008, 10:24 PM
I believe you could also hand carry the firearm to the out-of-state dealer if you live near a state line and the buyer was relatively close by. For example, SC is not far from Charlotte NC and that might make sense rather than shipping.

No registration in NC unless something has changed recently. If you are concerned about documentation on a face to face sale, you could request a signed receipt from the buyer that they received the firearm from you.

Duke Junior
September 21, 2008, 10:25 PM
ATF Rules:

. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.


ATF Shipping rules:

18 U.S.C. 921(a)(32), 922(g)(8) and 925(a)(1)]

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

everallm
September 21, 2008, 11:29 PM
In a nutshell,

State laws not withstanding, which MAY add additional requirements

In state to in state resident

Face to face sales of pistol, rifle or shotgun legal so long as you have no reasonable cause to believe the individual is a prohibited person.
No FFL required, no records required although it would be prudent to at least get a record of some ID.

In state to out of state resident

Pistol sales MUST go to and be transacted at an FFL in the state of residence of the out of state individual. The out of stater can inspect, handle, pay for in the originators state but they can only take physical control in their state and at an FFL.
You do NOT need to send it via an FFL in the original state but when you send it to the far end FFL you must use UPS/FEDEX/DHL etc

Rifle and shotgun

An out of stater can buy AND take control of a rifle or shotgun in another state however it can only be completed at an FFL in either state.

Example

Johnny New Jersey, whilst on a driving trip to Florida meets a friend, Frank Florida, who has a CZ 75 pistol, a Mossberg 500 shotgun and a DPMS AR-15 rifle for sale. They come to an agreement on price and Johnny buys all 3 and money changes hand.

Being lawful individuals, the following happens.

Johnny calls his local NJ FFL and asks and gets an OK to send the pistol to be held at the FFL and Freddie sends it via FEDEX.

Johnny and Freddy go to Freddies local FFL and the FFL runs a NICS check on Johnny for the rifle and shotgun purchase which Johnny is OK'ed for. Johnnie can now take physical ownership of his 2 new pieces of property and can drive back to NJ.

Being NJ, when Johnny gets home he has to go to his local cop shop and take his Firearms ID card and fill in a form and ask nicely for a pistol permit purchase form to be approved.

3 months later Johnny finally can go to his FFL who then runs his NICS check, fills in the NJ paperwork and hands over the pistol to Johnny.

powwowell
September 22, 2008, 12:39 AM
Thanks for the responses and the information.

Larry

Loomis
September 22, 2008, 12:54 AM
Ignore "firearms registered to you". It's not your responsibility to notify anyone keeping a list of any kind regarding what firearms you are selling or ceasing to own.

You should, however, keep some kind of receipt of the sale...just for your own reccords. I probably would anyway. Unless it was a relative. In that case, I'd tell him to come visit me and I'd sell it to him personally. Then it's his problem transporting it out of state.

I'm not a lawyer though. So don't take my legal advice as though I was one.

NavyLCDR
September 22, 2008, 04:44 AM
You still have to do the North Carolina Pistol Purchase Permit or NC CCW license, if it is a handgun.

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