[NonConformist]

Any such beast exist? Seems it would be impractical whatever 'it' is

This idea suddenly bounced into my head a few days ago and I cannot shake it, problem is I dont have anything beyond a name

I know what a scout rifle is, but dont see how it would relate to a pistol

A scoped pistol? Seems silly...maybe a red dot...still

Humor me but i just cant shake it...Help! :banghead:

[Vicious-Peanut]

Alot of hunting revolvers have 8"+ barrels and scopes. It makes sense, especially with rounds like the .454 Casull and especially the .460 S&W.

May not be what you had in mind though.

[HM2PAC]

What do you mean by "Scout Pistol"?

In my reading about the Rhodesian forces, the most of them carried a Browning Hi Power. They also rarely, if ever, had to use them.

For that application, I would put these in as criteria:

1. Fixed sights
2. Lanyard

[NonConformist]

Its just an idea that popped into my head, really just a name w/ no quantifying features after a dream

I dont know why...just putting it out there for my own sanity LoL

[KiltedClaymore]

i envisioned a 3-inch barreled M-1917. or a webly in .455. even a nagant popped into my head. hmmm...i need to get some more surplus guns...

[Loomis]

If a scout needs a pistol, he screwed up.

[Just Jim]

Maybe one of those carbon AR15s that is a pistol.

jim

[Loomis]

S&W TRR8

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/170269a_lrg.jpg

[Brian Williams]

I like the idea, it would be the back-up to the Scout rifle, something to be carried all the time. It would have to be able to put down just about anything within a 25 meter area and be able to make body hits to say 75 meters. Scopes would be out as to "fit" concept of being quick to sight and make good hits, maybe a reddot, but it would also remove the lightweight carry all the time.

[armoredman]

PLR 16 with aimpoint style sight, single point sling?

[rfurtkamp]

Think that'd be a PDW-type weapon myself, something that 'works' as a close in-handgun with stock folded/retracted/non-engaged, but gives you better than handgun sights (including capacity to mount a dot or appropriate scope) and stability for longer shots.

Most smaller SMGs and semi-equivalents would probably fit this bill imo.

It's the model I went with when buying my VBD (very bad day) package: actual rifle for long range (FAL), Vector MP5K-PDW SBR (close in/confined spaces), and handgun (backup when all else fails) - either a Sig 226 or a S&W 296 (haven't decided which at this point, own both).

[CWL]

The purpose of a scout is to set-off an ambush prematurely to save the main body of troops.

With this in mind, a scout would need a lot of 'heat' fast & close, so I think any sort of cut-down shotgun loaded with 00 buck or maybe flechettes.

[KiltedClaymore]

how about a AK pistol with a small, lightweight bipod, and a 75 or 100 round drum?

[Aka Zero]

I thought scouts just... scouted, a snipers job was to scout, check movements of troops equipment, get a layout of the battlefield.

I think If I was scouting I would want a Rifle, in 308. And probably a backup pistol of 1911, CZ, maybe HK....

No scope. a pistols job is backup. just in case.

[HM2PAC]

CWL wrote:
The purpose of a scout is to set-off an ambush prematurely to save the main body of troops.

Where did you get that information?

[Quoheleth]

If you're looking for reliable hits out to 75 meters, you are eliminating a lot of the semiautos, aren't you, by default? I would think something that's flat-shooting like a .357 Magnum would be more of a necessity. While a 9, 40 or even 45 COULD be used at that distance, I'm not sure those are the best platforms for that application. What am I saying...no pistol is really good for that application.

Lessee...in the Tom Berringer movie SNIPER, he had his Remington 700 in .308 and a...was it a SIG or HK as his pistol.

There you go...just proved my first paragraph wrong...Hollywood helps us again.

Q

[hankdatank1362]

You all remember Ichiro's personal hi-cap .38 Super 1911 that was featured just a couple months back? 24 rounds, huge mag well, red-dot, compensated, very accurate out to 75 or 100 yards, hard hitting. Perfect "Scout pistol."

I guess.

[Brian Williams]

Lets go back and relook at the Scout Rifle concept as defined by Col Cooper
Drawing inspiration from several sources, specifically the Austrian Mannlicher-Schönauer of 1903 and the Winchester Model 1894, Cooper defined several distinguishing characteristics of a scout rifle:

* A maximum unloaded weight, with accessories, of 3.5 kilograms (≈7¾ lbs), 3 kg (≈6½ lbs) optimal.
* An overall length of 1 meter (≈39 in.) or less.
* A forward-mounted telescopic sight of low magnification, typically 2-3 diameters. This preserves the shooter's peripheral vision, keeps the ejection port open to allow the use of stripper clips to reload the rifle, and eliminates any chance of the scope striking one's brow during recoil. Cooper has stated that a telescopic sight is not mandatory.
* Ghost ring auxiliary iron sights: a rear sight consisting of a receiver-mounted large-aperture thin ring, and typically a square post front sight.
* A "Ching" or "CW" sling. Against common practice, Cooper advocated the use of a sling as a shooting aid. The Ching sling offers the convenience of a carrying strap and the steadiness of a target shooter's sling with the speed of a biathlete's sling. (The CW sling is a simpler version of a Ching sling, consisting of a single strap.)
* A standard chambering of .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO caliber; 7 mm-08 for locales that forbid military chamberings; and .243 Winchester for young or recoil-shy people. Cooper also commissioned "Lion Scout," chambered for the .350 Remington Magnum cartridge.
* Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

Other optional features included a retractable bipod, detachable magazines, a butt magazine, and an accessory rail for lights and other attachments. The addition of some of these features often render the rifle technically not a scout as originally defined, but this has come to be accepted by many as still conforming to the spirit if not the letter of the concept. from wikipedia
Not with that in mind let us look at what would be the equivalent in a handgun as a backup for a "scout rifle".
b

[un_lucky]

One handgun that could do it all. I'm thinking a sp 101 with a 3 inch barrel.

[Mp7]

Hmm... MP7?

[ReadyontheRight]

'Scout' pistol?

I'd say either a 1911 or .357 fits my profile of a "Scout Pistol". Use it to get to your scout rifle that's hanging on a tree or sitting in your vehicle while you do some work on the trails or fences.

[JImbothefiveth]

On Eotech scopes, can you put in "magnifiers" when you need extra magnification , but then take them out to go back to a red dot sight?
If you can, maybe that mounted on a g20. Or maybe a 1911 in 45 super. If you're not worried about making noise, maybe get a compensator.
(Of course, if shooting at night, I'm seeing the potential for a "flashbang" effect here.)

[Hook686]

The Desert Eagle has 10" and 14" barrels for the standard 6" barrel pistol (.44 magnum and .357 magnum). It also has built-in scope mounting capacity. Add very good accuracy out to 200 yards and this might fit into your imagery. If I'm understanding the OP, a 'Scout pistol' is different from a 'Scout's pistol' and is certainly not a revolver.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/dmchinnock/Desert%20Eagle/DSCF1139cropsml.jpg

[elChupacabra!]

Ok with these requirements in mind, I suggest the 1911 as well, in plain old 45ACP. Here are the requirements again:


* A maximum unloaded weight, with accessories, of 3.5 kilograms (≈7¾ lbs), 3 kg (≈6½ lbs) optimal.
* An overall length of 1 meter (≈39 in.) or less.
* A forward-mounted telescopic sight of low magnification, typically 2-3 diameters. This preserves the shooter's peripheral vision, keeps the ejection port open to allow the use of stripper clips to reload the rifle, and eliminates any chance of the scope striking one's brow during recoil. Cooper has stated that a telescopic sight is not mandatory.
* Ghost ring auxiliary iron sights: a rear sight consisting of a receiver-mounted large-aperture thin ring, and typically a square post front sight.
* A "Ching" or "CW" sling. Against common practice, Cooper advocated the use of a sling as a shooting aid. The Ching sling offers the convenience of a carrying strap and the steadiness of a target shooter's sling with the speed of a biathlete's sling. (The CW sling is a simpler version of a Ching sling, consisting of a single strap.)
* A standard chambering of .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO caliber; 7 mm-08 for locales that forbid military chamberings; and .243 Winchester for young or recoil-shy people. Cooper also commissioned "Lion Scout," chambered for the .350 Remington Magnum cartridge.
* Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

As the 1911 compares:
*Not terribly heavy, much better than the Desert Eagle or 8" scoped hunting revolver some recommend
*Compact enough to be carried anywhere with appropriate holster / clothing (although I don't, there are many who do, and it's certainly possible)
*I'd go with regular iron sights, maybe a tritium front and plain black rear - Heine or Novak - coupled with the long sight radius, should be quite serviceable
*See above
*No sling, but maybe a lanyard?
*.45ACP is a very popular chambering, and perhaps comparable to .308 WIN as pistol rounds go
*A good design, like Nighthawk, Wilson, Ed Brown or Les Baer should have no problem hitting a torso out to 75m with a capable shooter

Just my opinion. I think it fits the bill nicely :)

[Loomis]

Long range accuracy. Good stopping power at long ranges. The only semi auto pistols that fit that bill is 10mm and up. But it also needs to be light weight. That's going to knock out almost all semi auto handguns of higher powered calibers. You're left with a glock 10mm, or a scandium S&W revolver enabled for moon clip use.

[JCMAG]

I don't see how revolvers are ruled out :p

A medium frame .357 revolver. Seems pretty good to me.

As I understand it, a scout rifle is a lighter and handier rifle than the primary battle rifle carried by his comrades. But it is still the same rifle.

Therefore, if you are making a 'scout' pistol, it ought to be a smaller and handier version of your usual carry gun.

Perhaps a J-frame .38 might actually fit the bill :p:p:p:p

[JImbothefiveth]

Perhaps a J-frame .38 might actually fit the bill
If I understand the concept right, shouldn't it be sort of a "do all" thing?
The .38 j-frame probably isn't going to be hitting a medium target at 75 yards or taking deer anytime soon, for all practical purposes. (Okay, maybe if you have an olympic shooter, who's very good at stalking.)

Is CCW included in the list of things it should be able to do?
If you're very large, or CCW isn't in the list, the desert eagle just might actually be practical here. Probably doesn't weigh more than a .308 rifle.
Maybe the .44 mag version would be best here, for follow-up shots.

[mgregg85]

PLR 16 with aimpoint style sight, single point sling?

Sounds like the best solution. Even better if you could put a SU-16C type folding stock on it.

[Owlnmole]

An all purpose pistol able to do double duty at relatively long range...I think 75 yards was even mentioned? That's going to be a tough order to fill, but my best guess would be a .357 magnum revolver with at least a 4" barrel and adjustable sights. That likely means a medium or large frame Smith and Wesson, Ruger, etc. though there are a few small frames that would work, such as the S&W Model 60 Pro.

[usmccpl]

http://www.gunsamerica.com/987295154/Guns/Pistols/Muzzleloading-Modern-Replica-Pistols/T_C_Scout_50_Cal_Custom_Muzzleloader_Pisto.htm#
this is the first thing i thought of

[Scottmkiv]

I don't really think it would be useful, but I think the closest you could come (excluding pistol versions of rifles like the ar-15) would be something like a Glock 20 racegun with a 6" barrel.

[Caipirinha]

It seems that people are answering two distinctly different questions here.

One is what would be the pistol equivalent of the scout rifle and the other is what would be the sidearm of the scout rifle concept. They are two very different questions.

[yhtomit]

"It seems that people are answering two distinctly different questions here.

One is what would be the pistol equivalent of the scout rifle and the other is what would be the sidearm of the scout rifle concept. They are two very different questions."

I like this thread. But I disagree somewhat with that assessment -- I think there's overlap between those questions.

I'd extend the list of characteristics of a "scout pistol" a bit, too, I think in keeping the spirit of Cooper's scout rifle concept:

- Light(ish) (at least not outrageously heavy!)
- accurate
- reliable
- easy to maintain
- uses common / conventional (thus readily available) ammunition

Arbitrarily, I'm going to suggest I'd like 9mm in such a pistol -- modern ammunition is good, and the caliber wars will always be with us, but I'd rather *carry* (not just shoot at the range) 30 or 50 rounds of 9mm than 30 or 50 rounds of .45.

So: I like the Cz-75, or the P-01 :) (Though neither one is *light* ...)

But a 9mm Glock (17, say, or 19, or 26) would fit well, too. I like a grip safety, though, so I'd also nominate an XD in 9mm.

timothy

[ndh87]

Kel-tec SU-16 with a scope would probably qualify.

[Hook686]

JCMAG revolvers are ruled out simply because the OP specified a 'Pistol', not a handgun, revolver, or piece.

[StrawHat]

Did not Jeff Cooper loudly and proudly proclaim and teach that THE pistol was some iteration of the Browning designed 1911? Seems to me, that said pistol would be what he would likely pair up with his scout rifle.

Not my choice, I would go with a 45 caliber, S&W N frame with a 4" barrel.

[Owlnmole]

Hook686, that's a language question. A great many people, including myself, consider "pistol" and "handgun" to be interchangeable, so a "revolver" is just one kind of "pistol."

Even the dictionaries don't agree--Merriam-Webster defines "pistol" as a small firearm with the chamber integral to the barrel (i.e. not a revolver) but American Heritage and Oxford just talk about a firearm for one hand.

The point is, there is no reason to rule out an entire class of weapon over semantics. The ease of using varied and specialized ammunition with a revolver might make it ideal as a "scout pistol" depending on your definition of that.

[Goblin]

I don't think the need exists.If you're scouting or acting as an FO, I would think a SBR would be called for! If you are thinking about a back-up sidearm,just about any mil-spec pistol will do for that.

[CAS700850]

Goblin makes a good point. If the "Scout" is a forward observer/recon type, almost any mil-spec handgun will serve the purpose. In my way of thinking, the "Scout" is intended to be a person who moves with stealth. Observation is the key task. Being able to move quickly, quietly, while remaining stealthy is how the task is accomplished. The is the rifle is intended to be a semi-sniper rifle, though lighter in weight and faster into action in case the need arises for engaging multilpe targets to allow evasion and escape.

With this task in mind, I blieve that the ideal handgun for the scout will be a semi-automatic handgun with the ability to utilize a suppressor as a part of the scout's kit. Being able to remove a sentry or engage a member of a patrol with minimal sound would be invaluable, and a lot better than a knife and a prayer. Keeping with the Colonel's spirit, a .45 is appropriate. Perhaps this is the real niche for the HK SOCCOM .45...

[seeker_two]

If we're talking about a backup PDW for a scout, I'd recommend a FN P-90 with the shorter barrel (12-15"). Plenty of punch for short to intermediate (150 yds & less) engagements and light enough to carry with a couple of mags.

For a scout, I just don't see any advantage to carrying a non-military-standard sidearm, but I do think a .44Mag revolver would be cool. In an old gun mag article, Leroy Thompson talked about a S&W 29 w/ tiger-stripe camo finish he carried on a protection assignment in the jungle. Very impressive-looking piece.... :cool:

[grendelbane]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the 9x23mm Winchester yet!

My home assembled Gov't model shoots as flat as a similar .357 Magnum revolver.

Ammunition is relatively lightweight. Seems perfect for the job.

Not that a 10mm would be a bad choice.

[un_lucky]

Part of the scout concept was readily available ammo. That should rule out anything you can't get at x-mart.

[KiltedClaymore]

my english teacher's son (7th special forces group from Fort Bragg, 2 purple hearts and a silver star. now in Afghanistan again) carried a Glock 17 9mm and a HK USP .45ACP in addition to an MP5 and scoped rifle (he failed to say what type of rifle) when he and 27 other SF guys were sent to Columbia in the late 1980s (might have been early 1990's, cant remember without asking). CIA sent them there to hunt down some leftist gurrillas that had kidnapped a bunch of americans in Bogata. long story short, mission was a success. unfortunately, 2 soldiers were killed in action.

so if SF had him carry a Glock 9mm and HK USP for pistols, seems to me those would be the "scout pistols" that this thread is talking about. cause i'd say the son's mission to columbia definitely fits the scout moniker.

[deaconkharma]

controllable recoil to keep on target while trying to break contact. (even in full auto)
compact but foldable stock
can be used as a pistol
pretty decent firepower can be brought to bear
:cool:
(i use the term "pistol" loosely but I watched video of a guy controlling it one handed)

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg96-e.htm

[deaconkharma]

one handed auto fire

[CWL]

Where did you get that information?

There's an old military adage that says: "A good scout is a dead scout."

The original purpose of scouts in military use was to go far ahead of the main body of troops and find the enemy, oftentimes by walking into them. Survivability was oftentimes low, but they helped to save the main body of troops.

Col. Cooper's concept was to help to prolong the life of a scout. Modern Marine Scout/Snipers came about when US troops became much too valuable to expend in the battlefield so they became a specialist class.

[Tribal]

deleted

[NonConformist]

Wow, this has turned out better than I expected!

Lots of cool and different ideas!

[pbhome71]

If I would pick one, I would want a semi-auto with silencer. Something that I can shoot the Aguila SSS accurately.

May be even with a latch to lock the slide in place, so I can keep it from ejecting the brass. This means that if I want, I can keep the slide cycle noise down, and rack the slide manually.

[32 Magnum]

The Scout, as in LRRP (lurp), is supposed to locate enemy emplacements, formations, bivouacs, etc. - his job is not to engage the enemy, but to report back to the main body the location of his find. LRRPs are instructed to remain unseen, unheard and unknown by the enemy. An ideal pistol for a military scout would be a silenced pistol of suitable caliber to provide close up personal protection in case he was stumbled upon by the enemy he is "scouting".

[KI.W.]

My scout pistol is T/C G2 .357Rem Max 14" barrel with Redfield Five Gold Star Pistol Scope using high rings. To 50 yards with open sights and then with scope. I use silencer too and make subsonic loads. :rolleyes:

[3006mv]

no longer made though. http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/FHG09_SniperPistol.asp

[M203Sniper]

1911 Fusion Scout Custom , 10mm Elite Package

This is an extremely well built 1911 from the Fusion Firearms custom shop. This one is so nice I hate to sell it. This is a professional built custom 1911. Lock-up is excellent and you can feel the solid quality when you rack it back. This Custom pistol is with a full package of custom features. You get:

Fusion Scout Series, 1911 Combat Frame professionally fitted to the slide and fitted match grade ramped barrel, bushing, link and pin, 10mm chambering, 5 Inch 1911 with Stainless Steel accents, All professionally fitted.
Steel checkered Fusion mainspring housing

Custom Fusion trigger group, with Fusion Pro-Series “SK” stainless steel hammer, adjustable Aluminum LT “K” match trigger, Fusion sear, disconnector, Ambi- Thumb Safety, Wolff springs, all fitted and tuned to a 4.0 lb clean brake trigger.
Bomar style fully adjustable combat angle blade and Dawson custom Fiber Optic FL red Dovetail front, Premium Exhibition grade RARE WHITE Cocobola grips
Extended Mag release
Full length guide rod
Undercut trigger guard
Chain link scalloped front-strap
Beveled mag Well edges with Stainless steel checkered Mag-well Mainspring Housing,
Forged Pro-S slide stop
Black Oxide PRO-Matte finish
10mm Stainless steel mag with base pad
13- Lifetime limited warranty 1
Made from the best materials and processes available in today’s market. FUSION is a company formed by past Dan Wesson Firearms President, Bob Serva. Bob Has been working in the industry and with the 1911 for over 20 years and understands the quality of parts needed to build a great 1911 pistol. Thank you.

Price $1195 - $1495 depending on options

http://www.fusionfirearms.com/images/1911-41-1.jpg

[montangard]

The Scout, as in LRRP (lurp), is supposed to locate enemy emplacements, formations, bivouacs, etc. - his job is not to engage the enemy, but to report back to the main body the location of his find. LRRPs are instructed to remain unseen, unheard and unknown by the enemy. An ideal pistol for a military scout would be a silenced pistol of suitable caliber to provide close up personal protection in case he was stumbled upon by the enemy he is "scouting".
Thank you for setting folks straight 32 Magnum!
WETSU-montangard

[Kosh75287]

Someone said "If a scout needs a pistol, he's already screwed up". Perhaps. In modern pistol craft, it's also considered a mistake to shoot your autopistol until dry. But we still teach rapid reloads, and make use of beveled mag wells and extended slide releases. Sometimes, screw-ups just happen. The plaint that it shouldn't have will not salvage the situation.
Regarding a "Scout Pistol", I'd be tempted to look at a Scandium Alloy 1911A1 or Commander-clone in 10mm or perhaps .460 Rowland.