FL. 3 day waiting period?


PDA






Mickstix
September 22, 2008, 02:14 AM
I've got a question on the 3 day waiting period that Florida has, for buying a handgun.. How does it work when you buy someting online, and have it shipped to an FFL?? Does the FFL have to hold the gun 3 days after receiving it?? Or does your FFL do the NICS check before you have the gun sent there, which would, in a sense, make the shipping time your waiting period?? Hope I didnt loose anyone there. It's late, so I may not be making sense.. :o

If you enjoyed reading about "FL. 3 day waiting period?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Duke Junior
September 22, 2008, 02:29 AM
FL. 3 day waiting period??
I've got a question on the 3 day waiting period that Florida has, for buying a handgun.. How does it work when you buy someting online, and have it shipped to an FFL?? Does the FFL have to hold the gun 3 days after receiving it?? Or does your FFL do the NICS check before you have the gun sent there, which would, in a sense, make the shipping time your waiting period?? Hope I didnt loose anyone there. It's late, so I may not be making sense..

Yeah,its late.

WAITING PERIOD IN FLORIDA
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 3-day waiting period for all handgun sales by licensed dealers. Counties may extend the waiting period to 5-days and apply it to long guns and sales by non-licensed dealers at gun shows and flea markets. The waiting period is used by law enforcement to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. The waiting period also serves as a "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

The last sentence is courtesy of Sarah Brady.
So the clock seems to start ticking the moment your FL FFL receives the gun.
Brighter,less tired minds may have other opinions and better assessments.
Without a CCW waiting periods vary from 3 to 5 days depending on the county.
With a CCW there in no waiting period in any county.
Do you have a CCW,Mick?

Wes Janson
September 22, 2008, 11:27 AM
It's dated from when you sign the bottom of the first section of the 4473.

c1ogden
September 22, 2008, 08:00 PM
Wes is correct on when the 3 days starts. There is no waiting period if you have a ccw permit but you still have to pay for the NICS check.

Here in NJ we have a 2 week waiting period before a purchase permit is issued and we still have to pay for the NICS check! What are they going to find with an "instant" check that didn't show up on the "2-week" check?

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
September 22, 2008, 08:14 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but if you have bought from a specific dealer previously I don't think the wait applies . I got my ccw so there is no wait.

SomeKid
September 22, 2008, 08:24 PM
I admit, I am surprised FL has a waiting period. But then, OC is banned. FL has some work to do.

ColinthePilot
September 22, 2008, 08:32 PM
I admit, I am surprised FL has a waiting period. But then, OC is banned. FL has some work to do.

The nice thing is that they do have a real "common sense gun law," in that if you have a CCW, they realize you're not buying a gun for a crime of passion, because you probably already have a gun to use for such purposes, and you've already been printed, photographed, checked and approved, so no need for a wait.

SomeKid
September 22, 2008, 08:38 PM
Yah, but the day I turned 21 I got to buy two pistols, and walk out the door with them. I really enjoyed doing that.

SCKimberFan
September 22, 2008, 08:47 PM
IN SC with a CWP, they don't do the NCIS, your permit takes its place. NC is the same. Why doesn't FL do the same?

Wes Janson
September 22, 2008, 10:17 PM
The nice thing is that they do have a real "common sense gun law," in that if you have a CCW, they realize you're not buying a gun for a crime of passion, because you probably already have a gun to use for such purposes, and you've already been printed, photographed, checked and approved, so no need for a wait.

The real problem is that the law used to be really common sense: if you had proof that you already owned a handgun, no 3-day wait. If you were law enforcement, no 3-day wait. Then some legislators got uppity, decided to re-write the Constitution, and in doing so someone screwed up and forgot to carry over all of the exemptions.

Now the net result is that we have to tell uniformed officers and deputies, who are on duty carrying their service pistol, that they're not allowed to walk out with their new purchase because they might commit a crime of passion (don't go do it with your patrol rifle either, please). Brilliant!

CDignition
September 23, 2008, 09:15 AM
All you guys are 100% wrong on when the clock starts in Florida. IT starts from the time the money changes hands. NOT by dates forms are filled out or Background checks are done. Do any of you guys even live here??.. lol

Wes Janson
September 23, 2008, 03:48 PM
All you guys are 100% wrong on when the clock starts in Florida. IT starts from the time the money changes hands. NOT by dates forms are filled out or Background checks are done. Do any of you guys even live here??.. lol

Incorrect. If you read the ATF's http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#p35 FAQs, you won't find any mention of money. To point out why this is so, let's say that theoretically a dealer decides to give someone a pistol for free. The law obviously isn't going to say that the three day wait doesn't apply simply because there's no consideration attached. Section A of the 4473 is the determining factor, not if or when money changes hands. Furthermore, it's by comparing the dates of the signatures on Section A with Section C that the ATF may verify that the proper waiting period was adhered to.

And yes, I do live here. :P

Guns and more
September 23, 2008, 06:20 PM
I live in FL and here's how it has worked for me. The waiting period starts when you buy the gun. I didn't even go to my FFL until it came in. It was shipped USPS so it took three days to arrive. When it arrived, they had me fill out the form, made the call (which took about two minutes) and I was out the door with the gun.
I don't have a cwp.

atomchaser
September 23, 2008, 07:37 PM
I live in FL and my FFL goes my the date you purchased from the seller for transfers. You either call in and tell him that it's coming after you order (at which time he logs it on a sheet he keeps) or bring in dated evidence of the purchase date. Other transfer dealers in the area that I have dealt with use the 3 days from the date they receive it, so I think it depends on how one interpets the intent of the law and the risks they are willing to take.

RobNDenver
September 23, 2008, 07:41 PM
"Waiting Period!!! But I'm mad right now!!!!" Homer Simpson. . .

Wow, I thought waiting around for 45 minutes today for an "instant" check was a pain in the behind.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
September 23, 2008, 08:36 PM
The waiting period starts as soon as money changes hands. My first handgun purchase was a layaway purchase and when I paid the balance and did the backround check I was expecting to have to wait but the owner told me once I put money down on the gun the clock starts ticking because it constitutes an intention to purchase.

Wes Janson
September 23, 2008, 11:17 PM
The waiting period starts as soon as money changes hands. My first handgun purchase was a layaway purchase and when I paid the balance and did the backround check I was expecting to have to wait but the owner told me once I put money down on the gun the clock starts ticking because it constitutes an intention to purchase.

Did he have you fill out a 4473 at the beginning? That's the only thing that's important. I'm not at all sure that the ATF will accept "Intention to purchase" as the answer if they find a 4473 with a date of 01/01/08 on Section A, and a date of 01/02/08 on Section C, even if you first "showed intent" a week prior.

ATF may consider it invalid if a 4473 is dated from before a purchase is actually made, but I'm pretty certain they're not going to accept anything less than an actual three days between Section A and C, regardless of circumstances.

On the gripping hand, I'm not sure if enforcement of Florida's 3-day waiting period actually falls under the ATF's authority, particularly regarding the extra waiting periods that certain counties have. That's really more of a question for Gutmacher, I suspect.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
September 24, 2008, 08:25 AM
I filled out the backround check when I paid the final balance. When I put it on layaway it was pulled and each payment was entered on a receipt taped to the box so there is a record of purchase. As far as I know this is correct since he's not the only shop that does it like this.

Wes Janson
September 24, 2008, 09:52 AM
I filled out the backround check when I paid the final balance. When I put it on layaway it was pulled and each payment was entered on a receipt taped to the box so there is a record of purchase. As far as I know this is correct since he's not the only shop that does it like this.

You don't "fill out the background check", you're completing the relevant sections of the 4473. The background check is done by the dealer (or, technically, the FDLE technician), and is typically called in at the time of purchase, or for layaways at the time of release (due to the 30-day expiration date on a background check).

If your dealer is having you fill out both sections of the 4473 at the same time, you don't have a concealed carry permit, and this was for a handgun, then something is definitely up. I could be wrong here, but given what you said I suspect your dealer might very well be skirting into a gray area of the law.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
September 24, 2008, 12:22 PM
I think you misunderstood me, when I paid the balance I filled out the form with my name address and other relevant info including all the little yes and no boxes,he called it in and released the handgun to me. This was before I got my ccw. I had one other on layaway from a different dealer and it was the same deal. As soon as money is paid towards a firearm it should be considered a purchase and the backround is just the final step.

divemedic
September 24, 2008, 06:50 PM
790.0655 Purchase and delivery of handguns; mandatory waiting period; exceptions; penalties.--

(1)(a) There shall be a mandatory 3-day waiting period, which shall be 3 days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and the delivery at retail of any handgun. "Purchase" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer. "Handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver. "Retailer" means and includes every person engaged in the business of making sales at retail or for distribution, or use, or consumption, or storage to be used or consumed in this state, as defined in s. 212.02(13).

(b) Records of handgun sales must be available for inspection by any law enforcement agency, as defined in s. 934.02, during normal business hours.

(2) The 3-day waiting period shall not apply in the following circumstances:

(a) When a handgun is being purchased by a holder of a concealed weapons permit as defined in s. 790.06.

(b) To a trade-in of another handgun.

Wes Janson
September 24, 2008, 10:08 PM
I just e-mailed Gutmacher about the issue, and got a rather interesting response back:

As I thought I had made perfectly clear -- three business days from the date NICS is contacted for the approval number. 27 CFR 478.102

According to this it would seem that the waiting period only begins after it's called in.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr478.102.htm

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
September 25, 2008, 05:37 PM
This is quite confusing, there are two different statutes in the last two posts that state two different things. One thing I can say is that the shops I have dealt with start the minute cash changes hands. At least I don't have to worry about it any more now that I have my ccw.

Bill2e
September 26, 2008, 06:42 AM
Get a Florida CCW permit & there is no waiting period. Even if you don't want to carry there are advantages to having it.

Mickstix
October 12, 2008, 06:36 PM
Another stupid flaw found in the 3 day waiting period.. I "thought" I was picking up my new gun on Tuesday, but after re-reading 790.0665 it states that weekends and holidays dont count toward the waiting period?? Isnt the whole idea behind the waiting period so that a raving manic has time to cool off, incase he's geting a gun for some crime of passion?? If so, what the heck does it matter if the "wait" days are weekend or holidays, as long as it's been 3 days (72 hours) since he bought the gun?? This is becoming more trouble than it's worth.. :banghead:

CDignition
October 12, 2008, 09:09 PM
gutmacher is dead wrong on this one, I don't care what the statute he points out says. I have asked the FDLE on several occasions and always get the same answer.. Purchasing a gun has nothing to do when the background check is called in. IT has to do when $$$ changes hands.

Mickstix
October 12, 2008, 10:45 PM
IT has to do when $$$ changes hands.

What if the gun is a gift (free) from the dealer? Or an auction item? Im going through this right now, for 2 different guns.. One bought from an auction on Gunbroker.com My 3 day wait for that gun started when I filled out sec. A of the 4473 at my FFL's.. (I still need to send payment to the guns owner, but that's got nothing to do with "my" 3 day period..) Once the owner sends the gun to my FFL, I can pick it up the same day.. On the 2nd gun I bought it directly from Fl. Gun Exchange.. I got the bg check and paid for the gun at the same time, and that started my waiting period for that one.. But in either case, I'd still like to know what weekends and holidays have to do with "not counting" toward a 3 day waiting period.. :confused:

smoking357
December 11, 2008, 11:54 PM
"gutmacher is dead wrong on this one, I don't care what the statute he points out says. I have asked the FDLE on several occasions and always get the same answer.. Purchasing a gun has nothing to do when the background check is called in. IT has to do when $$$ changes hands."

Correct.

NavyLCDR
December 12, 2008, 02:14 AM
I just e-mailed Gutmacher about the issue, and got a rather interesting response back:


Quote:
As I thought I had made perfectly clear -- three business days from the date NICS is contacted for the approval number. 27 CFR 478.102

According to this it would seem that the waiting period only begins after it's called in.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...cfr478.102.htm

It would really be nice if people would post the ENTIRE law when they quote a sentence out of the law. This CFR has NOTHING to do with Florida's waiting period. What this CFR says is that any dealer in any state cannot transfer any firearm until the requirement of the NICS check has been satisfied.

According to paragraph (a)(1) the FFL must contact NICS - or verify the equivelant state level check has been completed in those states with their own systems, THEN according to paragraph (a)(2)(i) if NICS responds with the proceed number, the FFL can complete the transfer OR if NICS does not respond with the proceed number and three business days has elapsed since the NICS call, then the FFL can complete the transfer without the NICS unique number. This statute has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with state mandated waiting periods!

Sec. 478.102 Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998.

(a) Background check. Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this
section, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer
(the licensee) shall not sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm to any
other person who is not licensed under this part unless the licensee
meets the following requirements:
(1) Before the completion of the transfer, the licensee has
contacted NICS;
(2)(i) NICS informs the licensee that it has no information that
receipt of the firearm by the transferee would be in violation of
Federal or State law and provides the licensee with a unique
identification number; or
(ii) Three business days (meaning days on which State offices are
open) have elapsed from the date the licensee contacted NICS and NICS
has not notified the licensee that receipt of the firearm by the
transferee would be in violation of law; and
(3) The licensee verifies the identity of the transferee by
examining the identification document presented in accordance with the
provisions of Sec. 478.124(c).

Example for paragraph (a). A licensee contacts NICS on Thursday, and
gets a ``delayed'' response. The licensee does not get a further
response from NICS. If State offices are not open on Saturday and
Sunday, 3 business days would have elapsed on the following Tuesday. The
licensee may transfer the firearm on the next day, Wednesday.

If you enjoyed reading about "FL. 3 day waiting period?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!