.25/223?


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woof
September 22, 2008, 08:06 AM
Wasn't Remington or someone experimenting with this as a possible cartridge introduction? I assume there have been wildcatters working with it for some time. Anyone know what Remington thought the potential applications would be? and what kind of ballistics it would produce?

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Jim Watson
September 22, 2008, 09:18 AM
I don't know if Remington ever gave the .25-222 a serious thought. They had already had the .257 Roberts obsoleted by the .243 and .244.

John Wooters called it the .25 Copperhead and publicized it. Myra in Australia made some.
Looks like .25-35 ballistics, an 87 grain bullet at 2500 fps from Wooters' 18" barrel, 2700 from Wayne Blackwell's longer varmint gun.

jjohnson
September 22, 2008, 11:53 AM
Oh, you can be sure the .223 is the father of a bunch of wildcats since brass is "free" an any range populated by Mall Ninjas :cuss: or National Guard.

The 6.5mm TCU and 7mm TCU are pretty good in Contenders if you want a bigger bullet in your .223 casings, but I haven't seen hardly anything in a rifle chambered for the .223 necked up to anything. The TCUs were pretty popular for knocking down iron targets for pistols, but I think the popularity of those has declined, too. You can still get dies for them if you're looking at somebody cutting you a custom barrel for your .223.

woof
September 22, 2008, 12:38 PM
Remington had something on their website about the .25/223 a couple months ago. I for one would love to see a .25 or 6.5 mid power cartridge. Less than .257 or .260 but still whitetail adequate. What I'd really like is to see it with leverevolution rounds and in a short lever carbine. Yeah, I know .25-35 is out there but it could be improved upon.

skinewmexico
September 22, 2008, 05:39 PM
It would probably have been built if there were a better selection of high BC 25 cal bullets available.

rangerruck
September 22, 2008, 09:31 PM
just get a 6x45 shooting a 85 to 90 grainer.

MCgunner
September 22, 2008, 09:44 PM
Oh, you can be sure the .223 is the father of a bunch of wildcats since brass is "free" an any range populated by Mall Ninjas or National Guard.

The 6.5mm TCU and 7mm TCU are pretty good in Contenders if you want a bigger bullet in your .223 casings, but I haven't seen hardly anything in a rifle chambered for the .223 necked up to anything.

The 7mm TCU has a pretty long OAL for a short AR type action to feed, at least with a 150 Match King. Perhaps something in 120 grains or less could be made to work. One thing I've found, commercial brass is a lot easier to neck up without cracking the case. Military brass is too thick and seems brittle and will crack a lot.

Well, the 250 Savage AKA 250-3000 pre-dates the .257 Roberts and is a weaker round still deer capable. Oh, and then there's the 25-20 Winchester if you want even weaker, though a little light for deer.

Folks, it's all been done.

RonE
September 22, 2008, 09:51 PM
I don't know if Remington ever gave the .25-222 a serious thought. They had already had the .257 Roberts obsoleted by the .243 and .244.

John Wooters called it the .25 Copperhead and publicized it. Myra in Australia made some.
Looks like .25-35 ballistics, an 87 grain bullet at 2500 fps from Wooters' 18" barrel, 2700 from Wayne Blackwell's longer varmint gun.

Don't we already have something called the 250-3000 that pushes the 87grain pill at 3,000 fps and from which evolved the .22-250?

Isn't a .25-223 more or less reinventing the wheel? I would guess it would be going backwards as to velocity as the .223 is commonly 31-3,200 fps with 55gr bullets. Increasing the bullet dia and weight would slow it down.

MCgunner
September 22, 2008, 09:59 PM
I am pushing a 150 7mm out of the TCU in a 10" barrel to about 2050 fps. A rifle barrel, you're probably looking at 2400 or so, 30-30 territory with a little better BC, call it a 7-30 Waters short magnum. :D It's an efficient sized case. The 7TCU would be a lot better choice for deer than .223 IMHO, more bullet, good energy.

jjohnson
September 23, 2008, 08:27 AM
Okay, some of us are indeed "range brass whores," as one comment put it.

I still pick up buckets full of both military and civilian .223/5.56mm left at the range by Mall Ninjas, Sheriff's department, National Guard. The .223 isn't the best round for necking up - it does have a shorter neck than some handloaders like - but free brass is very sexy to some of us. :D

7mm TCU is really good in a Contender - OAL isn't an issue since I don't have a magazine or action that cares, so I can seat looooong bullets way out until I touch the leade. And the military brass isn't as forgiving to being expanded as premium civilian brass.

That being said, yeah, I consider the 7mm TCU to be at least a marginal choice for deer - at least compared to those who think the M1 Carbine is a deer cartridge. I't take it over a 25-20 any day. I don't see any reason a 25 cal bullet seated in the 223 case wouldn't work well, particularly with the really good bullets available now. It certainly would be a decent round for taking care of coyote sized varmints, with relatively quiet report, low recoil, efficient powder use. I think the problems are more 'commercial' than anything. What I've seen from wildcatters that have necked up to 6mm and larger all looks good until you get past 7mm, where the neck gets a little iffy.

If I ever get a wild hair to want to rebarrel one of my .223s, I'd be very tempted to have somebody cut me a 7mm TCU barrel. It'll never be a .270, but then, for my purposes, "quiet" is goodness, and the longer barrel should make it quite a bit tamer than my Contender barrel.

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