A scary thought caught me today.


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HANDLOADER
September 22, 2008, 08:17 PM
The boy came in today and sat down and we conversed for about a hour. No the boy looks just like me when I was 16 6 ft tall and strong. Any way he is a member of the schools air rifle team and today his rifle broke. And the RO/ Instructer at the end of class told him to walk the rifle down to the room and leave it in there. The man has full faith in the kid and I don't blame him thats the way I raised him to be. Honest, saftey wise and respectgul. Any way the kid walks the rifle down to the class muzzle pointing to the roof and on the way class dismiss and the students leave the class. In the high school there is a ag class and he was in that last year so he has friends. They see him and yell he's got a gun. Oh @#$%. Any way the kid gets to the room fast as he can and leaves for lunch. Now I respect that the instructure trust him. But he put the kid in a sitiution that could have resulted in a dangerous ending. This meaning our shoot first and ask questions latter cops. I could have lost the boy. Luckly no one went as far to call the police but still dose this ROTC dude have any sense about him at all putting kids in these situtuions?So I believe that that instructure is going to get a BIG PIECE OF MY MIND! So what dose everyone else think of these situtions that our all mighty school teachers put our kids in.

GOD BLESS

Handloader

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spuscg
September 22, 2008, 08:36 PM
my high school didnt allow an air rifle team, tried to do lots of anti gun reading......watched bowling for michael more is d bag

kingpin008
September 22, 2008, 08:40 PM
While I can see a young person walking through a school with a rifle/handgun being a bad thing due to today's rash of school shootings, I'd be much less worried about the police arriving and potentially shooting him than I would be a teacher or other staff member with a concealed handgun doing it. The cops, even if called immediately, will not get there in time to do much, especially if they don't have a good lock on where the supposed shooter may be. A staff member, however, could easily intercept the kid with the rifle/handgun and engage them.

Either way, I'd have a *polite yet concerned* conversation with the coach/director of the air rifle program, and see what can be done to avoid such a situation in the future. Either he needs to take the rifles to the storage room himself, and leave the students out of it, or he needs to do something like escort them, or perhaps affix some sort of flag or other device to the rifles so that nobody is able to mistake them for an actual weapon when in the hands of the students.
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....watched bowling for michael more is d bag

Uh, I think I get what you're saying, but please - try to be a little bit more coherent. Not trying to bust your chops, but it helps us a -lot- if your posts are comprehensible.

DoubleTapDrew
September 22, 2008, 08:44 PM
Maybe the instructor forgot we now live in a blissninny panic-filled world where people want someone carrying anything even resembling a gun near a school shot on sight, legal or not.
I'd be much less worried about the police arriving and potentially shooting him than I would be a teacher or other staff member with a concealed handgun doing it
Are you against concealed carry altogether, or just in certain places? Considering the legal ramifications for CCW holders vs. cops they seem much less trigger happy in my experiences.

Thernlund
September 22, 2008, 08:45 PM
I think maybe his friends need to understand the position they put him in. I'd place the blame on them.


-T.

BruceRDucer
September 22, 2008, 08:51 PM
Handloader:

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for the instructor to say:

Set the rifle down somewhere until class is over?

Still, it is an innocent blunder.:uhoh:

______________________________________

WhisperFan
September 22, 2008, 09:01 PM
The entire problem may have been avoided if they placed the air rifle in a case before asking the student to transport it.

I think that all target guns (both firearms and air-guns) should be transported back and forth from the range in gun cases. But that's just me

kingpin008
September 22, 2008, 10:03 PM
Are you against concealed carry altogether, or just in certain places? Considering the legal ramifications for CCW holders vs. cops they seem much less trigger happy in my experiences.

Uh, what? How do you get me being against CCW from the statement you quoted? All I was saying, was that in that situation, the individuals who would be most likely to respond would not be the police (since they have to respond to the school in the first place) but teachers, who may have CCW licenses/weapons. I thought I was being pretty clear, no?

Wes Janson
September 22, 2008, 10:51 PM
As I see it, part of the problem stems from the fact that people are too ignorant to realize that someone walking around with a rifle at shoulder arms is probably not a threat. If the barrel is parallel to the ground, it's time to find cover. Barring that, mass murderers generally do not exhibit proper muzzle discipline and safety procedures before opening fire, for some strange reason.

DoubleTapDrew
September 23, 2008, 01:56 PM
All I was saying, was that in that situation, the individuals who would be most likely to respond would not be the police (since they have to respond to the school in the first place) but teachers, who may have CCW licenses/weapons.
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant a teacher/staff member would be more likely to open fire on him without assessing the situation than a LEO would be if they had a CCW.

Dgreno
September 23, 2008, 03:24 PM
When I was in JROTC in high school, we carried "deactivated" M1's. (Deactivated meaning that the shop teacher poured molten aluminum down the barrel and cut the firing pin down:barf:.) We carried them throughout the school without any problems. We also had an air rifle team. We would shoot in the cafitera or gym if it was not in use after school. No problems there either.

Gunsby_Blazen
September 23, 2008, 03:36 PM
what you need are bags or cases for the air guns. it makes them less threatening to the public who have been sensitized to them. but, it is understandable why folk would react in panic if they saw a fella walking with any type of gun...
anyway, cases would be good to prevent such things.

TonyB
September 23, 2008, 04:03 PM
here in liberal NY state,we had an actual rifle team in my HS....this was the 80's too,not the 50's.It was a private school though.there's a picture of us on the team in the year book w/ our guns too..now a days...it would never fly....it's for the children.
BTW,the best shot on the team....her name was Kelly.;)

MJRW
September 23, 2008, 04:13 PM
When you talk to the man, inform him, don't yell at him. You may actually achieve something if you deal with him respectfully and he understands the problem created. If you go ahead and give him a "BIG PIECE OF [YOUR] MIND," you are far more likely to create an adversary who will dismiss you as a yelling idiot than achieve anything.

kingpin008
September 23, 2008, 04:22 PM
Agreed. More flies with honey than vinegar, and all that.

BothellBob
September 23, 2008, 04:24 PM
At the next all school assembly have the rifle team presented to the student body, carrying arms. Use this as an opportunity to educate (and warn) everyone. Throw in how much fun shooting is, how you learn about firearm safety, and encourage participation.
-BothellBob

NG VI
September 23, 2008, 04:27 PM
While I can see a young person walking through a school with a rifle/handgun being a bad thing due to today's rash of school shootings, I'd be much less worried about the police arriving and potentially shooting him than I would be a teacher or other staff member with a concealed handgun doing it. The cops, even if called immediately, will not get there in time to do much, especially if they don't have a good lock on where the supposed shooter may be. A staff member, however, could easily intercept the kid with the rifle/handgun and engage them.

I highly doubt that a teacher, who would know about the ROTC, would just shoot someone in the hallway on sight of the gun. I have a hard time believing they would do anything but draw and demand the student put the rifle down slowly and safely, if they didn't recognize him as an ROTC kid.

springmom
September 23, 2008, 04:33 PM
+1 to MJRW's comments. Calm down before you even think of picking up the phone. And when you do, make an appointment and see him in person. And when you do THAT, please keep in mind that your son might be pretty embarrassed if Daddy goes running to school and makes a scene. 16 year olds aren't real big on parental rescue missions (voice of experience here).

Apart from causing tension between your son and the teacher for the rest of the school year (which has just really gotten started) you have the kids who will hear about it (and yes, they will hear about it) and rag on your son for needing Daddy to come to his aid.

I understand that the possible outcomes were pretty scary, but your response needs to be calm and rational and not a matter of giving him a piece of your mind.

Springmom

kingpin008
September 23, 2008, 06:00 PM
I highly doubt that a teacher, who would know about the ROTC, would just shoot someone in the hallway on sight of the gun. I have a hard time believing they would do anything but draw and demand the student put the rifle down slowly and safely, if they didn't recognize him as an ROTC kid.

I never said that a teacher would automatically open fire. What I said, was that if anyone was likely to react to such a situation, it would be teachers first, since the police would still be responding.

And just because a school has an ROTC program or a rifle/pistol team, does not mean that every teacher or faculty member knows about said program or team, and every student involved with it. Further more, I'd imagine that when confronted with the sight of a student walking down the hallway with a gun, any individual is going to be taken aback, and may not have the wherewithall to put together the fact that the school has a ROTC/shooting program.

HuntAndFish
September 23, 2008, 10:40 PM
So I believe that that instructure is going to get a BIG PIECE OF MY MIND! So what dose everyone else think of these situtions that our all mighty school teachers put our kids in?
Sounds like the school needs some cheap rifle sacks ($5) to carry the guns in/out/around. A gun sack just isn't as threatening as a naked rifle.

Robby
September 23, 2008, 11:30 PM
Well gun sacks, or open carrying a gun (air rifle even). How do you think some of the school shooters got their weapons on campus, or in the high school but in a duffle or bag!
But if a CCW Teacher or staff in most states, they have at least been thru some training, and most likely would not over react, (to an air rifle being carried pointed at the ceiling, while being carried.
I wish more schools allowed trained teachers and staff to carry concealed. I know in KY, we are trying to petition the legislature for that change at this time, and also for parents who have permits to be able to carry also. This on colleges would include of age students with CCW.

tpaw
September 23, 2008, 11:59 PM
A scary thought caught me today.

Obama won!.....:eek:

Apple a Day
September 24, 2008, 07:08 AM
Were we overdue for a teacher-bashing thread?

tpaw
September 24, 2008, 10:46 AM
Were we overdue for a teacher-bashing thread?

I you can read this, thank a teacher.......;)

Thernlund
September 24, 2008, 02:51 PM
Somebody's gotta get bashed.

A day without bashing is a day without sunshine.

:rolleyes:

(I said the jackass friends who cried wolf should be to blame. But I guess teacher bashing is more fun.)


-T.

thirdeagle
September 24, 2008, 03:46 PM
I had a similar experience in college. Unbeknownst to me, my college had a great ROTC program, yet they made little to no presence on campus. I was out running one day on a wooded trail that skirted campus (on campus) and was confronted by a plain-clothes guy about my age with an AR-15 slung over his shoulder. Our confrontation was brief as my pace quickened considerable when we noticed each other. Nothing bad came of the event but I did immediately contact campus security. I was reassured that what I saw was most likely a member of the ROTC and that the firearm was most likely a dummy, used for non-shooting training exercises.

At that point I raised a few questions which included: 1) why was the fella' not uniformed or at least in fatigues to indicate his affiliation, and 2) why was the firearm not marked in some fashion as to indicate that it was "non-firing."

WHAT REALLY BOTHERED ME was that the person what "most likely" in ROTC and that the firearm was "most likely" a dummy. "Most likely" is not good enough for me - a little more diligence from the campus officer would have been nice.

I am no anti but do advocate firearm carry according to the law (even if I disagree with some laws) and using good judgement. Chances are, the fella I encountered was doing nothing "illegal" but was certainly not displaying his best judgement in the situation (considering his "most likely" affiliation).

hso
September 24, 2008, 03:51 PM
I agree with Thurland in that your son's buddies need to have their hind ends chewed, but I'd also recount the incident to the coach and point out that as a teacher he should have been mindful of the idiotic behavior of kids and not put your son in such a situation.

Wes Janson
September 24, 2008, 06:04 PM
At that point I raised a few questions which included: 1) why was the fella' not uniformed or at least in fatigues to indicate his affiliation, and 2) why was the firearm not marked in some fashion as to indicate that it was "non-firing."

WHAT REALLY BOTHERED ME was that the person what "most likely" in ROTC and that the firearm was "most likely" a dummy. "Most likely" is not good enough for me - a little more diligence from the campus officer would have been nice.

Did the individual display any behavior or body language that might indicate he was a threat? Or was he simply walking with a slung rifle? The media has created and reinforced the false perception that an armed individual is automatically a threat. This is simply not so.

From my perspective, I've had far more loaded weapons pointed at me by negligent law enforcement officers, than I have ever been threatened with by normal citizens carrying arms. Again, it's the individual's behavior and bearing that is critical to determining threats, not what they are or are not visibly carrying. The flip side of the equation is making the assumption that someone isn't a threat simply because you can't see a weapon. Neither assumption is valid, and both can cause harm.

esmith
September 24, 2008, 10:06 PM
I think maybe his friends need to understand the position they put him in. I'd place the blame on them.


-T.

You can't blame the kids, they are only repeating what the school system has taught them.

-E.

Thernlund
September 27, 2008, 02:16 AM
^^^^ Yeah. Don't them hold accountable for their behavior or anything.

Ugh. :mad:


-T.

loop
September 27, 2008, 04:19 AM
It saddens me.

When I was in high school ROTC we were issued M1s and had to take them home three days a week on the bus. They were inspected weekly to see that we had maintained them properly.

We were allowed to bring hunting rifles or shotguns to school if we planned to use them on the way home.

The state of this country sucks.

esmith
September 27, 2008, 01:28 PM
^^^^ Yeah. Don't them hold accountable for their behavior or anything.

Ugh.


-T.

No, because it's your school system who has taught them to fear guns intead of telling them the truth. What the hell do you expect? Being brainwashed since birth that guns are evil and that they (the guns) are the source of the crime instead of the one behind the trigger.

Why do you think kids in high schools across the nation have become such left-wing zealots??? You hear speculators state that if Obama wins this upcoming election that it will be due to the young voters of the nation. Why do you think this is? I'll tell you why, and this coming from personal expierence, is the fact that the school systems are so corrupted that they telling students what they believe, instead of giving them the facts and letting them think for themselves.

On the original topic, I don't know what you expect if someone were to carry a rifle through a school thesedays, but im pretty sure what occured would happen 99.99999999999% of the time in other schools. Unfortunatley, it is your tax dollars that have been fueling this P.C anti-gun left wing mindset youth directly from the school systems.

-E.

scrat
September 27, 2008, 04:29 PM
im thinking two of them should have walked the rifle together or the instructor should have done it themselves

Savage Shooter
September 27, 2008, 10:52 PM
If that was my "friends" they would be TOAST... after school of course.:evil:
the teacher is also a moron in my school almost every guy would guy would have recognized it an airgun but not the girls they would have been screaming. If in fact it was a real gun are teachers the men anyway and our principal would have tackled the gunman at their own risk even if they would have got shot thats just the way it is around here.

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