Bail Bondsman arrests wrong guy at gunpoint


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abaddon
September 10, 2003, 12:48 AM
So much to comment on I'm not sure what to say. Just read.

http://www.tribnet.com/news/story/3879696p-3903024c.html

__ Bail bondsman nabs wrong guy, lands in jail

STACEY MULICK; The News Tribune

A Tacoma bail bondsman swung into action Monday afternoon after spotting a dangerous bail jumper.

He grabbed a shotgun, hurried to a car waiting in the Starbucks Coffee drive-through line on South 72nd Street and ordered the man out at gunpoint.


But once Tacoma police had sorted out the frenzied scene, it was the bail bondsman who ended up in jail after apprehending an innocent man in a case of mistaken identity.


"(The man) was not the bad guy, which he'd said all along," Tacoma police spokesman Jim Mattheis said.


Coffee customers thought it was a car-jacking or a kidnapping.


"We didn't really know what was going on," said one woman who witnessed the incident. "It was pretty scary."


The bondsman spotted a white Honda waiting in the line at the often-crowded South End Starbucks coffeehouse shortly after 1:30 p.m. He believed he recognized the male passenger, whom he considered armed and dangerous, Mattheis said.


The bail bondsman got out of his car and hurried to the Honda. He held a shotgun to the face of the woman behind the wheel. An infant was buckled in the back seat.


The bondsman yelled at the woman not to go anywhere. He ordered the man out of the car and handcuffed him.


"I heard someone say, 'Get out of the car,'" said one witness, who didn't want her name used. "I heard it again quite louder."


The bondsman hurried the man into his car and drove off. Meanwhile, the witness and her co-workers darted across South 72nd Street and called police from a nearby pay phone.


Other panicked customers also called 911.


"We were getting lots of calls from citizens," Mattheis said. "They thought it was a kidnapping that took place in the parking lot."


One witness got into a car and followed the bail bondsman, keeping police dispatchers informed of his route. Officers stopped the bondsman's car at South 11th and Court A streets, near another Starbucks, Mattheis said.


Officers took the man the bondsman had captured to police headquarters to verify his identity. Fingerprints revealed he was not the offender the bail bondsman thought he was, and he was released, Mattheis said.


The bail bondsman, on the other hand, was arrested and booked into Pierce County Jail on suspicion of kidnapping and two counts of assault, Mattheis said.


The News Tribune is not identifying him because he has not been charged with a crime.


Neither the woman nor the infant was injured.


"It was like a three-minute chaos of panic," one witness to the original incident said. "I'm just glad they caught him."


Stacey Mulick: 253-597-8268
stacey.mulick@mail.tribnet.com

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C.R.Sam
September 10, 2003, 12:59 AM
"They thought it was a kidnapping that took place in the parking lot."

It was.

Sam

El Tejon
September 10, 2003, 09:08 AM
You mean I CAN'T go around playing Batman because I have a gun?:confused:

But what if I "hate crime"? Isn't "hating crime" pure and true motive enough to avoid being prosecuted for major aggravated felonies? Doesn't the law say I can violate the law because I have a gun and hate crime?

Problem #2!!!

MrAcheson
September 10, 2003, 10:14 AM
Umm actually bail bonds agents (bounty hunters) can legally "kidnap" skips, "break and enter" into their house, and a number of other things in order to return them to trial. This is because of the way the bail bond system works contractually. If that had been a skip, then the bond agent would have been fully within his rights. Unfortunately for him, the guy wasn't his skip and the bondsman will probably go to jail. If only excesses made by law enforcement worked this way.

Incidentally how is this "strategy and tactics"?

TallPine
September 10, 2003, 10:42 AM
Incidentally how is this "strategy and tactics"?
What caliber would you have used on the bail bondsman ? :D

Seriously, that REALLY is a good way to get killed :rolleyes:

El Tejon
September 10, 2003, 10:56 AM
MrAcheson, this person was not a "skip." Bondsman may not kidnap persons who are not under contract.

Just because you have a contract, or a gun, does not entitle one to behave like this alleged behavior. All too often we read of alleged incidents where persons think they are exempt from criminal law because they have a gun. The goal is to prevent that behavior via education.

MrAcheson
September 10, 2003, 12:23 PM
Correct that person was not a skip. The bail bond agent was working under information that the guy was a skip so he behaved according. He was wrong and is now facing the steep consequences for his actions. Good. The agent was an idiot and now is an idiot behind bars.

I do not think this should be a condemnation of the bail bond/agent system however, since overall it works incredibly well. But occassionally you get an idiot like this guy without the common sense God gave a duck.

El Tejon
September 10, 2003, 12:30 PM
Not a condemnation of the bondsmen in any way. It is a condemnation of the Batman complex--I have a gun, I can do whatever I want.

Joe Demko
September 10, 2003, 01:56 PM
But Batman doesn't use a gun...

abaddon
September 10, 2003, 04:13 PM
"Incidentally how is this 'strategy and tactics'?"

I was a bit torn about where to post it, but I thought it should go here because I was trying to think of what I would do in that situation. If it doesn't belong here a moderator can move it.

Jeff

Andrew Rothman
September 10, 2003, 10:19 PM
If nothing else, it's a good lesson for us: Don't get involved in 3rd party disputes. Technically, at least in my state, a citizen can use deadly force to prevent GBH or death to himself OR ANOTHER.

What if you were in the coffee shop, and you saw some jerk trying to carjack a lady in a car with an infant? Should you draw and order the jerk to the ground? What if he turns toward you? Take him out?

Oops. It's the bail bond agent.

Now from the bail bond agent's point of view: You are capturing a dangerous fugitive when another man points a gun at you. It must be the bad guy's accomplice, and he's looking to take you out. This is a real threat. Better swing around that shotgun and protect yourself.

No way this ends good.

Things aren't always as they seem. When you come into a situation, you can't always know what's going on. Is it a robbery? A drug bust? A domestic? Who is the bad guy?

Because of this real-life ambiguity, there are very few situations not involving me-and-mine that would prompt me to draw a weapon and take action.

Even then, things can be dodgy.

Imagine this: You, a law-abiding carry permit holder, are in your car with your wife and infant daughter. Some scumbag with a shotgun points it at your wife, yelling at her not to leave. What do you do?

I think I'd yell for her to hit the floor, then I'd try to put a few extra holes in his head. How the hell can I know he's a bail bond agent looking for a guy who looks like me? How can I know that the worst that he'll do is handcuff me and take me for a ride until things get straightened out?

Reality check: The bond agent could have FOLLOWED the guy and waited for better tactical circumstances to capture him -- you know, away from the innocents?

The bond agent caused this whole problem. He's lucky he's not dead or facing murder charges.

Matt

Spieler
September 10, 2003, 10:54 PM
"The bond agent caused this whole problem. He's lucky he's not dead or facing murder charges.

AMEN to that Matt! Isn't that the whole point to carrying a concealed weapon, to protect yourself and the lives of your loved ones when confronted by violent individuals seeking to do you harm? The bounty hunter is lucky that he's ONLY in jail and not in the morgue.

Coronach
September 11, 2003, 12:11 AM
Sounds more like L&P that S&T.

Concur that he could easily have ended up dead. I sure hope that I don't look like a bail jumper and have a gun pulled on me. Someone would probably get hurt...and I'd be doing my best to make sure it wasn't me.

Mike

Gray Peterson
September 11, 2003, 12:26 AM
As a permit holder in both Oregon and Washington, the bondsman would be a dead man. That I guarantee. :fire:

F4GIB
September 11, 2003, 01:42 PM
If the bail bondsman had been a police officer there would have been no arrest. Those folks are protected by a "good faith" exception that excuses most errors of this sort.

Joe Demko
September 11, 2003, 01:55 PM
What if the bail bondsman had used a batarang instead of a gun?

TamThompson
September 11, 2003, 07:15 PM
Or better yet, a Klingon batliff! :p

Joe Demko
September 12, 2003, 12:04 PM
Was the bail bondsman wearing a mask and a cape? 'Cause I bet if he was, nobody would've called the cops. Nothing says "justice" like a mask and a cape.

BamBam
September 12, 2003, 03:40 PM
What if the bail bondsman had used a batarang instead of a gun?
The Batarang.....a formidable weapon!

El Tejon
September 12, 2003, 03:50 PM
Golgo, just make sure the mask has the pointy, little ears on it.:D THAT says "justice" and creates the exemption to the law.:cool:

Sergeant Bob
September 12, 2003, 06:07 PM
At least he didn't break down someone's door at the wrong address and shoot them based on a tip from some junkie trying to score points with some despicable judge.

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