Pulled Over: Cop Wants to Know I have CHL


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orygunmike
September 23, 2008, 04:31 PM
an interesting conversation I had with an officer who pulled me over for not having my lights on after dark....

He pulls me over...takes my license and registration...and goes back to the cruiser....

When he returns he politely/professionally tells me, "in the future I would prefer that you tell me you have a concealed handgun license....we are going to find out anyway when we run you on the compueter"...

I'm dumbfounded....like..where did this come from?

I replied..."I didn't think that it was pertinent to being pulled over for a minor traffic infraction..and I know there is no state requirement for me to tell you that".....

He tells me, "no you are not required, and you are not in trouble for not telling me, but I would have prefer that you told me before I ran your license".

He didn't give me a ticket...which I'm thankful...and I wouldn't do anything different next time...

He never asked me if I was carrying my gun, which I was at the time.

I shook my head for an hour after that...I just couldn't figure out where he was coming from or what purpose telling him I have a CHL would have served. He might have well asked for my political party or my blood type.

Any LEOs know why this officer would want to know I have a CHL?

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slow944
September 23, 2008, 04:36 PM
I don't know about Oregon, but here in Texas if you get pulled over you have to give the police your DL, CHL, and insurance cards.

stevemis
September 23, 2008, 04:40 PM
Some states require notification and some states do not. I personally always show my license, even on the rare occasion that I am not carrying and I get pulled over. I've had great experiences with the police in these situations and none have ever involved any "paperwork" (tickets). One officer even gave me a lift during a freak snowstorm when my car slid off the road and got stuck in some ice.

Of course, if the local agencies were generally anti, I'd probably feel differently. At least around here, the police take the CHP as an indication that they're dealing with a non-criminal, responsible person.

mgkdrgn
September 23, 2008, 04:41 PM
I don't know about Oregon, but here in Texas if you get pulled over you have to give the police your DL, CHL, and insurance cards.

Required here in SC too, and several other states I travel in. I figure rather than trying to keep track of which one is which I'll just fork over all the cards at once, no surprises for anyone.

Also, I keep my proof of ins and reg on the overhead visor, not in the glovebox where the Judge lives. ;-)

Loosedhorse
September 23, 2008, 04:44 PM
His request is not legally binding. But you may consider it out of politeness.

In my state also your ccw pops up when they run your license. When the computer works. So far I have only once (and that was just to see what would happen) mentioned that I was carrying, and it was no big deal. I would DEFINITELY mention it if I heard the words, "Sir, I need you to step out of the car."

"No surprises" is good policy for everyone in a potentially tense situation with firearms present. I have no desire to make a LEOs job, tough enough as it is, any tougher. If I start getting requests from LEOs when they pull me over (I hope not soon), I'll start making mentioning my ccw routine. Out of good sense and politeness.

But I SURE HOPE they understand, as they should, that a guy around here with a ccw has been through every check you can imagine. Personally, if I were an LEO and the ccw popped up on the guy I just pulled over, I'd be relieved--hey, a good guy!

Duke Junior
September 23, 2008, 04:57 PM
Only 10 states require it.Yours is not one of them.
You ran into a loose cannon.Move on and forget about it.
The decision is up to you in Oregon.Not the Officer.
Here in NC, I have no choice.I must disclose.
But I only disclose when in a compulsory state.
Lots of divided opinions on this issue to put it mildly.
We went through this 2 weeks ago.:uhoh:

Must notify LE states:AK,LA,MI,NE,NC,OH,OK,SC,TX and UT.

Treo
September 23, 2008, 05:07 PM
I don't think the cop was out of line. He made a request, he made it clear that it was a request. If I ran into that cop again I'd probably tell him right off just because he was polite about his request.

Colorado no requirement to inform

El Paso county my name doesn't pop up.

Every other cop I meet, (besides the nice one that politely requested it) I'm not saying a word.

Eyesac
September 23, 2008, 05:08 PM
I could understand him "wanting" to know out of curiosity or something, but how would knowing you CCW help him do his job better? Weird...

CountGlockula
September 23, 2008, 05:09 PM
This should've been covered in your CCW course. Yes, you need to inform the LEO about your permit out of courtesy.

Sean Dempsey
September 23, 2008, 05:09 PM
Utah does have the requirement.

I don't really see a problem with it.

XavierBreath
September 23, 2008, 05:11 PM
I just couldn't figure out where he was coming from or what purpose telling him I have a CHL would have served.Assuming you live in a state where you do not have a duty to inform, he could be making this request for a couple of reasons.

First, it could save him the time and effort of running you through his computer. He might just be the type who would see the CHL, see that you are not intoxicated (a usual reason for no lights) figure you are an OK Joe, and tell you to turn your lights on.

Second, it can give him the opportunity to assess the fact that he has a generally law abiding citizen who might be armed while he is looking at you and making judgement calls on your demeanor. Although most CHL holders are responsible, some are not. The CHL would give him one more tidbit of information while he is looking at and assessing you. Remember he has to turn his back to you to return to his cruiser and run your license checking for warrants and such. If you have a CHL, the need to check for warrants is greatly reduced, and even if he does so, he will feel more at ease turning his back to you.

Let's face it. When we are pulled over by a LEO, it is usually for a reason. They are approaching an unknown quantity when they get out of their car to walk up to ours. Then they are having to make a quick judgement call of whether or not you are a threat, a habitual problem or whether you just made a mistake. Their life, their job, and your life can depend on whether their judgement is on the money. Your CHL helps them make that judgement. If they believe you just made a mistake, there is a fair chance you may just receive a warning. Your CHL shows them that you are or were at least at one time responsible enough to meet the minimum requirements mandated by the state you live in to carry a gun.

A CHL is nothing to be ashamed of. You won't get into trouble for having one. It provides a LEO with a bit of information about your character. It won't get you out of trouble with the law, and it shouldn't. It can, however, help the officer determine whether he should let you go. Some states require you to inform, citing officer safety. Other states see that as silly. If your state doesn't require you to inform, you don't have to. That doesn't mean you can't.

FWIW, in Louisiana, I am required to inform. More than once I have had my CHL handed back to me with a "I don't need this" response. I didn't argue, I just put the CHL back in my wallet. I've had officers chat with me about guns afterwards. I've also received at least one ticket, for an expired safety sticker (archaic Louisiana tax stamp placed on the windshield each year) although I showed my CHL.

Just because the officer would have wanted to see your CHL prior to running your driver's license doesn't mean he's anti-CCW or anti-gun. It doesn't mean he's trying to impose on you past his limit. Perhaps he's just asking you to help him help you. Plus, the officer might want to know the best way to conceal a 1911. You never know ;)

My 2 pesos.

csmkersh
September 23, 2008, 05:12 PM
I don't know about Oregon, but here in Texas if you get pulled over you have to give the police your DL, CHL, and insurance cards.

Only if you are actually carrying or have a handgun in your possession at the time of the stop. See Texas Government Code 411.205 (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/GV/content/htm/gv.004.00.000411.00.htm#411.205.00)

§ 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a
license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license
holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that
the license holder display identification, the license holder shall
display both the license holder's driver's license or
identification certificate issued by the department and the license
holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display
the license and identification as required by this subsection is
subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by
Section 411.187.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or
refuses to display the license and identification as required by
Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license
suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this
subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1,
1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 9.17(a), eff.
Sept. 1, 1999.

If you're not carrying or have a handgun in your possession, then you are required only to present TDL and proof of liability insurance.

And an additional FYI, under TxPC 46.02 (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.02.00), effective September 1, 2007, you may legally possess a handgun in your vehicle without a license and it must not be in plain sight

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or
recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal
knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a
Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as
defined by Section 71.01.

Dgreno
September 23, 2008, 05:16 PM
Put yourself in the position of the officer, Would you want to know that someone you have stopped is armed? I darn sure would rather you tell me than find it out later and be surprised.

Harvster
September 23, 2008, 05:20 PM
For those in the "required to inform states"...do you just have to say you have a permit or that you are armed or both?

K3
September 23, 2008, 05:20 PM
Put yourself in the position of the officer, Would you want to know that someone you have stopped is armed? I darn sure would rather you tell me than find it out later and be surprised.

So, how do you apply that the the vast majority of folks who don't have a CHL? How does an officer know for sure in those cases?

csmkersh
September 23, 2008, 05:24 PM
I merely hand the officer my TDL, CHL and proof of insurance. At that point, a well trained officer might ask were the handgun is and I'll tell him. Only been disarmed once in 6 occasions in the past 12 years I've had contact with the police and ID requested.

akodo
September 23, 2008, 05:29 PM
When he returns he politely/professionally tells me, "in the future I would prefer that you tell me you have a concealed handgun license....we are going to find out anyway when we run you on the compueter"...

here's where you say "and I would prefer fat people not wear spandex, for hot women to buy me beer at bars, and to not have to bother getting a CHL in the first place'

Rustynuts
September 23, 2008, 05:30 PM
Put yourself in the position of the officer, Would you want to know that someone you have stopped is armed? I darn sure would rather you tell me than find it out later and be surprised.

Shouldn't really matter to LEO unless they somehow find a concealed weapon. If I was LEO I would ASSUME everyone I stop is armed. Would seem to be the only prudent thing to help stay alive. Maybe he wants to know you are concealed since statistically that makes you a much lower threat than an average Joe and he can breathe a little easier.

I don't understand the stand offfishness some people show. If LEO know you carry if they run your data, then why NOT volunteer it?

XavierBreath
September 23, 2008, 05:30 PM
For those in the "required to inform states"...do you just have to say you have a permit or that you are armed or both?You are expected to hand the officer your CHL along with your driver's license. He has the option of asking you if you are armed, and also the option of disarming you for the length of the encounter if he deems it to be necessary.

Duke Junior
September 23, 2008, 05:32 PM
This should've been covered in your CCW course. Yes, you need to inform the LEO about your permit out of courtesy.
_____________

Are you serious?Than why do 38 states not have the requirement by law?Forget courtesy.That's a personal decision.
You don't NEED to inform the LEO UNLESS you're in one of the 10 compulsory states.
I knew this was going to be another plutonium thread.
Let's get it on!:D

But I SURE HOPE they understand, as they should, that a guy around here with a ccw has been through every check you can imagine. Personally, if I were an LEO and the ccw popped up on the guy I just pulled over, I'd be relieved--hey, a good guy!

This makes a lot of sense.Do criminals disclose anything?We have to try to be realistic.Having to notify as law abiding citizens is an infringement.Those 10 states should junk that compulsory notification as bad,unconstitutional law and move forward.IMHO,of course.:fire:

green country shooter
September 23, 2008, 05:40 PM
There have been threads on here by people who were treated rudely and in an unsafe manner after they informed the police, so perhaps there are reasons not to do in some places. If your local police are used to the CCW laws, it probably won't be a problem. By "rudely" I mean handcuffed and verbally abused, by "unsafely" I mean an officer who did not know how to handle the specific type of gun or pointed it at the CCW person while trying to "make it safe."

No answer is always going to be right for every situation or every person. We are talking about human beings here, and they are all different.

cpaspr
September 23, 2008, 05:55 PM
Well, actually, considering where you live, it sounds like you got a very civil officer. Many in your neck of the Oregon woods are more anti- than pro-ccw.

No, Oregon does not have a duty to inform. This officer would have appreciated knowing in advance. Some don't care. And some will harass. We the people don't know which type of officer has pulled us over. So, in that light, since we don't have to inform, many choose not to.

He probably ran your plates before even coming up to talk to you. If you were driving your own car, he should have already known you had a CHL, as they can/should also run the DL of the vehicle's registered owner, which in your case would be flagged with the CHL info.

The only time I've been pulled over since I got my permit the officer asked if I had any guns in the car. Only at that point did I inform him that I did. He then asked where it was and if I had a permit, which I did and which I provided upon his request.

He also told me I was supposed to inform him I was carrying. He was wrong, but I didn't argue with him about it. No points to be made by doing so.

Will I inform first if there is a next time? Probably, depending on where in the state it happens. Will I after that? Depends on how the second occurrence unfolds. :)

Cuda
September 23, 2008, 06:04 PM
Treo..

"Colorado no requirement to inform

El Paso county my name doesn't pop up.

Every other cop I meet, (besides the nice one that politely requested it) I'm not saying a word."


Bingo...

C

jrfoxx
September 23, 2008, 06:18 PM
If you were driving your own car, he should have already known you had a CHL, as they can/should also run the DL of the vehicle's registered owner, which in your case would be flagged with the CHL info.


Happen to know what the process is by which they attach your CHL info to your DL/license plate/registartion? I have heard of this happening here before, and have also had people report they have asked OR LEO friends if the CHL info pops up and been told "no", so there seems to be some conflicting info on this, so I'm curious.I am NOT doubting ANYONE, here or otherwise's, statements, just curious due to conflicting reports.

Wonder if it varies by Sheriff/county of issue for the permit or something, if the info gets "attached" or not? That seems like the only explanation for the discrepency in reports I have read on the subject.

Any OR LEO's know the "facts" on this?

DoubleTapDrew
September 23, 2008, 06:20 PM
This should've been covered in your CCW course. Yes, you need to inform the LEO about your permit out of courtesy.

When I took my CHL course the officer teaching it instructed us NOT to inform, unless asked. Said that might make anti-gun cops uneasy. Personally that would put me more at ease but I'm not a LEO.

I'm torn between informing and not. I don't know if the majority of LEOs would give you the "good guy discount" or would think you are posturing by offering this like you are a wannabe (similar to a CCW badge) if it's not required. Probably depends on the officer.
I've been pulled over 3 times since getting my CHL. Never informed. The only one that asked me if I was armed was the same one that wrote me a ticket instead of giving me a warning. Probably coincidence but who knows.

TX1911fan
September 23, 2008, 06:21 PM
Actually, in Texas you only have to notify if you are actually carrying, but I do it anyway, since I don't want them to get any surprises when they run my license. Since I've gotten my CHL I've been pulled over 5 times and gotten 5 warnings. Ask me how many warnings I got before this: 0. I don't know if it's the CHL, but I can tell you it hasn't hurt.

mercop
September 23, 2008, 06:23 PM
Funny, I am retired now, but the last year I actually checked my stats was 2004 and I conducted over 1100 traffic stops on Rt 4O between Baltimore and Philly.

The people who were a danger to me buy having a firearm (criminals) just never seem to tell you they are carrying. IMHO there is no need during a normal traffic stop to inform the officer you are carrying a gun. Now if for some reason you have to get out of the car and he may see your gun, I think it would be courteous to let him know. The whole letting the officer know you have a gun thing is just like gun control. It makes no difference to the criminals. Just my $.02.

mgregg85
September 23, 2008, 06:25 PM
I'm pretty surprised california doesn't require you to inform.

I figured, being california after all, you would have to get out of the car and prostrate yourself in front of the officer. Maybe even beg forgiveness?

cassandrasdaddy
September 23, 2008, 06:27 PM
i never considered it for the cops benefit but rather mine. the idea being to keep from getting a new orifice by mistake

Sweden
September 23, 2008, 06:29 PM
Maybe he likes to just give warning to people with permits.

Treo
September 23, 2008, 06:33 PM
The proplem I have with these threads is that I some how get the feeling that it's normal for a cop to be suspicious of a legally armed citizen. It shouldn't be that way.

The state of Colorado recognizes my right to self defense to the point that a permit is not required to conceal a weapon in my car. (CRS 18-12-204) So, should those people inform?

The quickest way I know to find an anti cop is let them know you're armed ( And before Cassandra's Daddy asks yes, I say that from real life experience).

If I let the cop know I'm armed, the stop is likely to take longer, I'm more likely to be harrassed, and I'm more likely to be exposed to unsafe gun handling by the cop.

Are there exceptions? Yup, I already posted one. ( again real life experience CD) But for the most part it isn't in my best interests so I shut up.

Geno
September 23, 2008, 06:35 PM
In Michigan, we have to advise. Well, here along a about a week-and-a-half ago, some color-blind gentleman ran a red light in Detroit, causing me to t-bone his Taurus. Then, he fled the scene. Several witnesses stopped to assure my daughter and I were well, and to give us the license plate. :cool: I called the Detroit police and waited for 40 minutes with a pedestrian witness.

As the officer pulled in to take the report, I had my wallet in my hand. I passed my MCPL, my MDL and my pistol safety inspection papers to the officer. As I passed the items to the LEO, I stated, "I have my G26 on my ankle". He didn't even blink, simply responded, "Okay". Ten minutes later, I was on my way.

Doc2005

ccsniper
September 23, 2008, 06:35 PM
hasnt there aready been something like this?

RobNDenver
September 23, 2008, 06:40 PM
Two years ago, the Colorado Legislature reinstated the CHL database at the Colorado Bureau of Investigations which allows police officers to see whether or not you have a CHL when they run your name for Wants and Warrants and query the Department of Public Safety about your driver's license status.

Colorado is a state that does not require a person to tell a police officer that they are a CHL holder unless asked. I go back and forth on the topic, depending on whether I am carrying, but I think that if I were stopped and was carrying, I would present my CHL along with my License, Registration and Proof of Insurance. I don't know what it could hurt, but maybe I am missing something?

bogie
September 23, 2008, 06:53 PM
I'm guessing that the cop just wanted to be told that he can relax...

Treo
September 23, 2008, 06:54 PM
Two years ago, the Colorado Legislature reinstated the CHL database

That's a county by county thing I think (key word there) that only in Jefferson, Araphaho & the SSR Denver counties does your name come up.

I am positive that if your permit was issued in El Paso County it does not. Thanks to Terry Maketa ( Long may he reign)

911Boss
September 23, 2008, 06:58 PM
If I am being stopped for a traffic offense, what does my CPL status matter? What does whether I am carrying a gun or not matter? Give me the ticket or don't and then we can both go about our business. If the cop is going to see my gun, then I will advise so there is no misunderstanding, but otherwise I don't see any point in bringing it up. Living in a liberal area, a fair number of cops think they are the only ones "professional enough" to handle a gun at I just as soon not have their personal biases become an issue in the matter.

If a cop is counting on the people he/she stops to be honest, up-front, and forthright with him/her they probably will not be a cop for long.

BikerRN
September 23, 2008, 07:15 PM
If a cop is counting on the people he/she stops to be honest, up-front, and forthright with him/her they probably will not be a cop for long.

You got that right.

I'm not a road officer, and don't do traffic stops, but I can tell you this; One way of judging how honest and forthright a person is, see if they tell you they have a Concealed Weapons Permit.

If they have one and don't disclose that they do it makes one wonder what else they are hiding. Case in point, CWP Holder pulled over for a traffic violation, also hauling drugs. He didn't disclose the CWP and the dog "hit" on the drugs during a "walk around". The funny thing is, the cop said that if the guy would've disclosed he had a CWP he "would've just given him a "warning" and sent him on his way." The fact that the CWP came up on the MDT and that the guy didn't say anything about it struck him as odd since most people do in fact tell you they have one.

I've gone back and forth on this issue myself, but now I'm required by policy to disclose when I'm carrying, if I'm ever in a traffic stop. If I was a CWP Holder I don't know that I'd want to disclose that. I guess there is no right or wrong answer, except for your state's laws.

BikerRN

TheFringe
September 23, 2008, 07:17 PM
My job takes me through a local university every day while driving an unmarked company vehicle. Over the last several years I had been pulled-over by the same University Police officer who didn't care for my long hair I suppose, as I had never committed any 'real' traffic infractions. This cop was very brusque and built like a fullback, but at no time did I object to his pulling me over and briefly detaining me as he always let me off with a warning.

After getting my CCW I was once again pulled over by this gentleman. I immediately handed him my license, insurance card, and CCW. His eyes bulged ! "You caren raht naw ?" he asked. "Yes sir, left coat pocket.' I replied. "You haves a great day naw sir !" he said with a wry smile as he handed my license, etc back to me and walked back to his cruiser.

I have seen him in my rear view mirror but have not been pulled-over since.

makarovnik
September 23, 2008, 07:20 PM
He probably ran your plates before he pulled you over and was informed by the dispatcher. He just wants you to be courteous and respectful. I always let the officer know out of respect unless I'm driving in Louisiana, then no way. In LA the answer's always no.

RobNDenver
September 23, 2008, 07:38 PM
911Boss. . . What happened to your avatar>?? As an earlier Colorado Poster pointed out, not all Sheriff's in this state contribute CHL information to the CBI but mine does.

So, I am posting the question again. What does it hurt to hand over your CHL along with the other required documents and let the conversation flow from there?

I am pretty confident that the way I carry no one, including a second officer on the passenger's side of the car is going to see that I am carrying. I have never been stopped since I started carrying again. . . . go figure?

NonConformist
September 23, 2008, 07:38 PM
Here it will just get you harassed and delayed even more. I dont, and wont, announce since there is no requirement

stevemis
September 23, 2008, 07:47 PM
Happen to know what the process is by which they attach your CHL info to your DL/license plate/registartion? I have heard of this happening here before, and have also had people report they have asked OR LEO friends if the CHL info pops up and been told "no", so there seems to be some conflicting info on this, so I'm curious.I am NOT doubting ANYONE, here or otherwise's, statements, just curious due to conflicting reports.


In North Carolina, your CHL and Drivers License share the same number. I've been told by an LEO that your DL # is for life -- your drivers license can expire, get cancelled because you got a new license out of state... and if you come ever come back and get a new license, you'll get the same exact DL #.

Jack2427
September 23, 2008, 07:49 PM
Lets look at this in a reasonable manner. The officer was polite, and made a request of you-not a demand. I fully understand the reason for the request, most of the states that have the "must disclose" doctrine did so at the request of police agencies. The reason is really really simple. If the cop knows you have a legal weapon it takes a potential suprise out of the situation, and where firearms are involved, suprises are almost always bad-sometimes fatal.
Just suppose that you had a legit reason to emerge from your vehicle(cops HATE this), but they do happen, and while doing so he catches a short sight of your gun, everything, and I mean everything has now changed. He is confronted with an armed person. Even at my advanced age and loooong experience, here is what I am going to do:
1. Hit the "all call" button on my computer, asking for back up from every and anyone able to respond,
2. Ticket book and pen are replaced forthwith by either my holster weapon(BHP 9mm) or more likely by my "car gun" (Colt 1911 concealed near my seat that I can reach instantly while seated),
3. Polite conversation is replaced by "stop where you-NOW, get down on the ground-NOW, etc.
4. This monologue is transmitted over a ready to go bang pistol.
With my experience I might take a chance on your "looking OK" or how scared you look, someone with lesser experience(which is just about everyone these days) just might shoot you if you are not on the ground by the end of the last breath of "NOW".
There are too many A$$ holes out there today, and I do not mean CCW folks, everyone of them I have encountered over the last almost half century were nice folks, most of whom I wouldn't mind as neighbors-If I wanted people as neighbors.
Think about it, on/off duty cops shoot each other with alarming frequency. All of which would have been avoided if everyone concerned had known that the other guy was carrying.
If I get stopped off duty (less frequently these days) I immediately tell the officer (without removing hands from the wheel) I am Captain------- and my weapon is wherever it is.
Puts everyone at ease, cop knows what to look for and does not get excited when he sees it.

IN matters of firearms, ANYTHING we can do to reduce misunderstanding is worth it. I am not necessarily infavor of a law requiring disclosure, but I am in favor of no suprises-for everyone.

Aguila Blanca
September 23, 2008, 07:52 PM
I don't know about Oregon, but here in Texas if you get pulled over you have to give the police your DL, CHL, and insurance cards.
I don't think that's exactly correct.

I believe you have to inform the officer you have a CHL IF you are carrying at the time. I don't think the law specifically requires you to hand over the license before being asked to produce it, and I am 98% certain the law doesn't require you to inform an officer that you have a CHL if you are not carrying at the time of the interaction.

Yes, I understand that handing him/her the license is one way of "informing," but it's not specifically required by the law. "Officer, I have a CHL and I am carrying a handgun, how would you like me to proceed?" also works.

Aguila Blanca
September 23, 2008, 08:01 PM
I don't know about Oregon, but here in Texas if you get pulled over you have to give the police your DL, CHL, and insurance cards.
Ah, yes -- yet another example of what seems to be well on the way to becoming the most popular charge by police these days: "suspicion of lawful activity." You can't be too careful when dealing with people who aren't breaking any laws and don't bother to announce that they are conducting themselves lawfully.

Sheesh. This country is lost. It doesn't matter if Obama wins or loses -- the country is already lost.

jakemccoy
September 23, 2008, 08:16 PM
He tells me, "no you are not required, and you are not in trouble for not telling me, but I would have prefer that you told me before I ran your license".

"While we're out here shooting the breeze about what we prefer..."

Griz44
September 23, 2008, 08:21 PM
I inform irregardless of the status of my carry. 9 of 10 officers in this area will smile and hand you your license back and ask you to slow down, be careful, quit hitting pedestrians, whatever, and not write a ticket. They know you are an extra set of eyes and ears and possibly a lifesaver (their life) if the do-do hits the fan and you are close enough to help. Informing just might keep you off the ground as well. What could it hurt to let them know? Here it is the law (if you are carrying) but I would show anyway, officers seem to be a lot friendlier when they know for sure that you are a good guy.

Treo
September 23, 2008, 08:22 PM
here is what I am going to do:
1. Hit the "all call" button on my computer, asking for back up from every and anyone able to respond,
2. Ticket book and pen are replaced forthwith by either my holster weapon(BHP 9mm) or more likely by my "car gun" (Colt 1911 concealed near my seat that I can reach instantly while seated),
3. Polite conversation is replaced by "stop where you-NOW, get down on the ground-NOW, etc.

I'm curious Jack,

In Colorado It is completely legal for me to O.C. a firearm (In or out of my vehicle)

CC in my vehicle ( W/ & W/out a permit)

And I am not required to inform you (generic) that I'm doing so unless asked.

So would you pull your full battle roll in Colorado? If you did how long do you think you'd keep your job?

Standing Wolf
September 23, 2008, 08:28 PM
Exercising my Second Amendment civil rights is none of government's business.

WheelgunZealot
September 23, 2008, 08:49 PM
I could understand him "wanting" to know out of curiosity or something, but how would knowing you CCW help him do his job better? Weird...


Maybe he likes to just give warning to people with permits.

I think the guy just wants to go home after his shift.

Archer1945
September 23, 2008, 08:56 PM
For the poster who asked what difference it makes if it is just a simple traffic stop, all I can say is he'd better do some checking. There have probably been more LEOs killed during "simple traffic stops" than almost all other incidents combined. The two things any veteran LEO learns to take extra care on are "simple traffic stops" and domestic disturbance calls, things can get out of hand really quickly with either one.

Missouri is one of several states now where you can carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle without a CCW because it is now an extension of your home. Therefore LEOs have a perfectly legal right to ask anyone they stop if they have a weapon in the vehicle. Just think of the added pressure this puts on the officer when he/she pulls someone over for a "simple traffic stop". Just suppose the person behind the wheel has had an extremely bad day at work or something else that has really ticked them off and now they are stopped. It might be just a simple stop to tell them they have a taillight out, they aren't even going to give him/her a ticket but just let them know. Now here he/she is after having an extremely bad day, tired, stopped to have a couple of cold ones and now getting stopped by a cop. Ordinarily nothing would happen but this day is that one in a million when everything has gone wrong, the driver is not thinking straight because of the brews, etc. and reaches for the gun.

Btw, the moment I hand my DL to the LEO they are going to immediately know I might be carrying because my DL is also my CCW permit.

Duke Junior
September 23, 2008, 09:09 PM
Funny, I am retired now, but the last year I actually checked my stats was 2004 and I conducted over 1100 traffic stops on Rt 4O between Baltimore and Philly.

The people who were a danger to me buy having a firearm (criminals) just never seem to tell you they are carrying. IMHO there is no need during a normal traffic stop to inform the officer you are carrying a gun. Now if for some reason you have to get out of the car and he may see your gun, I think it would be courteous to let him know. The whole letting the officer know you have a gun thing is just like gun control. It makes no difference to the criminals. Just my $.02.
__________________

So much commonsense!:)
Do you have a fan club,mercop?
If so,I wish to become a member.
What is so difficult to understand about :"shall not be infringed?"

wyocarp
September 23, 2008, 09:24 PM
This should've been covered in your CCW course. Yes, you need to inform the LEO about your permit out of courtesy.

Why does he need to know? How will it help him?
Someone mentioned so that the officer won't be surprised when he finds out. Well, isn't that a nice surprise? It's not like hearing you have a deadly disease. It's more like hearing that you won the lottery isn't it? Who on here has a problem with pleasant surprises?

wyocarp
September 23, 2008, 09:27 PM
I figured, being california after all, you would have to get out of the car and prostrate yourself in front of the officer. Maybe even beg forgiveness?

That's funny right there. I'm a little surprised as well. Seems like California needs some law reform so that officers are able to secure in leg irons and cuffs anyone who is legally carrying a weapon.

wyocarp
September 23, 2008, 09:38 PM
It would be my luck.

No sir, I don't have any idea of why you pulled me over.

I pulled you over for "suspicion of lawful activity" and now I am convinced that I have to cite you for failing to notify me that you were conducting yourself lawfully. In fact, is there anything you have left out of our conversation that you might not have been legally bound to disclose before I arrest you?



But seriously, I don't have to disclose anything unless I get pulled over by an officer who is visually impaired to the point where he doesn't see the guns, ammo, and empty cases all over my truck.

Sir Aardvark
September 23, 2008, 09:41 PM
I have a CCW in California, and although there is no State requirement to disclose the fact that I am carrying, my permit as issued by the Orange County Sheriff specifically requires that I inform any peace officer that I come in contact with that I have a CCW (eg:traffic stops, etc.).

For those in the "required to inform states"...do you just have to say you have a permit or that you are armed or both?

My CCW instructor, who also happens to be a cop, stated that the best way to do this is to just hand the officer your CCW permit along with your Driver's License - if you were to tell the cop, "Hey, I have a gun!", he might not respond quite the way you'd expect.

Another word of advice that he gave was that if the cop asks you to remove your CCW handgun from your person and surrender it to him, make sure that he informs his partner, who is probably standing on the other side of your car near the back bumper, because if his partner sees you pulling a handgun out and doesn't know what's going on, there's probably a good chance that he's going to light you up!

Raccoon
September 23, 2008, 10:19 PM
I can appreciate why the officer brought this up to orygunmike, but I can't agree there was any useful reason for it. He probably only mentioned it because he rarely (if he has ever) encountered a law abiding CHL licensed gun owner. It took him off guard and he turned it into a potentially stupid confrontation because of his compulsion to say something.

In all truth, however...

Unless the law expects you to notify the officer that you have a firearm on your person or in your vehicle, then keep it to yourself. Volunteering this information can be mistakenly construed as a threat. (Don't write me a ticket, because I have a gun.) If he asks why you didn't notify him, explain, "I didn't want to risk you taking it as a threat."

Now, if you are asked to exit your vehicle, YES, state that you are carrying a firearm and ask if it's still "safe to exit" the vehicle. He will want to keep a closer eye on your hands, or give you special instructions, and will be less likely to react stupidly. Cops have shot innocent civilians for "gun looking items" on their person, especially in stressful situations.

Remember: You always fit the description of some random purse snatcher or liquor store robber who recently fled the crime scene a few blocks away.

Zedicus
September 23, 2008, 10:25 PM
Here in Idaho we have to Notify (only if you are carrying).

Duke Junior
September 23, 2008, 11:01 PM
Here in Idaho we have to Notify (only if you are carrying).

Are you sure,Zedicus?
Handgunlaw.us says to the contrary.See:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsA-M.pdf

Can't find anything in the relevant Idaho Statute about notifying LE.Did I miss it?See:

Idaho Statutes

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 33
FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND
OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
18-3302. ISSUANCE OF LICENSES TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS. (1) The sheriff
of a county, on behalf of the state of Idaho, shall, within ninety (90) days
after the filing of an application by any person who is not disqualified from
possessing or receiving a firearm under state or federal law, issue a license
to the person to carry a weapon concealed on his person within this state. For
licenses issued before July 1, 2006, a license shall be valid for four (4)
years from the date of issue. For licenses issued on or after July 1, 2006, a
license shall be valid for five (5) years from the date of issue. The
citizen's constitutional right to bear arms shall not be denied to him, unless
he:
(a) Is ineligible to own, possess or receive a firearm under the
provisions of state or federal law; or
(b) Is formally charged with a crime punishable by imprisonment for a
term exceeding one (1) year; or
(c) Has been adjudicated guilty in any court of a crime punishable by
imprisonment for a term exceeding one (1) year; or
(d) Is a fugitive from justice; or
(e) Is an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant,
stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance as defined
in 21 U.S.C. 802; or
(f) Is currently suffering or has been adjudicated as follows, based on
substantial evidence:
(i) Lacking mental capacity as defined in section 18-210, Idaho
Code; or
(ii) Mentally ill as defined in section 66-317, Idaho Code; or
(iii) Gravely disabled as defined in section 66-317, Idaho Code; or
(iv) An incapacitated person as defined in section 15-5-101(a),
Idaho Code; or
(g) Is or has been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable
conditions; or
(h) Is or has been adjudicated guilty of or received a withheld judgment
or suspended sentence for one (1) or more crimes of violence constituting
a misdemeanor, unless three (3) years has elapsed since disposition or
pardon has occurred prior to the date on which the application is
submitted; or
(i) Has had entry of a withheld judgment for a criminal offense which
would disqualify him from obtaining a concealed weapon license; or
(j) Is an alien illegally in the United States; or
(k) Is a person who having been a citizen of the United States, has
renounced his or her citizenship; or
(l) Is under twenty-one (21) years of age; or
(m) Is free on bond or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal or
sentencing for a crime which would disqualify him from obtaining a
concealed weapon license; or
(n) Is subject to a protection order issued under chapter 63, title 39,
Idaho Code, that restrains the person from harassing, stalking or
threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate
partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an
intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or
child.
The license application shall be in triplicate, in a form to be
prescribed by the director of the Idaho state police, and shall ask the
name, address, description and signature of the licensee, date of birth,
social security number, military status, and the driver's license number
or state identification card number of the licensee if used for
identification in applying for the license. The application shall indicate
that provision of the social security number is optional. The license
application shall contain a warning substantially as follows:
CAUTION: Federal law and state law on the possession of weapons and
firearms differ. If you are prohibited by federal law from possessing a
weapon or a firearm, you may be prosecuted in federal court. A state
permit is not a defense to a federal prosecution.
The sheriff shall require any person who is applying for original
issuance of a license to submit his fingerprints in addition to the other
information required in this subsection. Within five (5) days after the
filing of an application, the sheriff shall forward the application and
fingerprints to the Idaho state police for a records check of state and
national files. The Idaho state police shall conduct a national
fingerprint-based records check and return the results to the sheriff
within seventy-five (75) days. The sheriff shall not issue a license
before receiving the results of the records check and must deny a license
if the applicant is disqualified under any of the criteria listed in
paragraphs (a) through (n) of subsection (1) of this section.
The license will be in a form substantially similar to that of the
Idaho driver's license. It will bear the signature, name, address, date of
birth, picture of the licensee, expiration date and the driver's license
number or state identification card number of the licensee if used for
identification in applying for the license. Upon issuing a license under
the provisions of this section, the sheriff will notify the Idaho state
police on a form or in a manner prescribed by the state police.
Information relating to an applicant or licensee received or maintained
pursuant to this section by the sheriff or Idaho state police is
confidential and exempt from disclosure under section 9-338, Idaho Code.
(2) The fee for original issuance of a license shall be twenty dollars
($20.00) paid to the sheriff for the purpose of enforcing the provisions of
this chapter. The sheriff may collect any additional fees necessary to cover
the cost of processing fingerprints lawfully required by any state or federal
agency or department, and the cost of materials for the license lawfully
required by any state agency or department, which costs shall be paid to the
state.
(3) The fee for renewal of the license shall be fifteen dollars ($15.00).
The sheriff may collect any additional fees necessary to cover the processing
costs lawfully required by any state or federal agency or department, and the
cost of materials for the license lawfully required by any state agency or
department, which costs shall be paid to the state. If a licensee applying for
renewal has not previously been required to submit fingerprints, the sheriff
shall require the licensee to do so and may collect any additional fees
necessary to cover the cost of processing fingerprints lawfully required by
any state or federal agency or department.
(4) Every license that is not, as provided by law, suspended, revoked or
disqualified in this state shall be renewable at any time during the ninety
(90) day period before its expiration or within ninety (90) days after the
expiration date. Renewal notices shall be mailed out ninety (90) days prior to
the expiration date of the license. The sheriff shall require the licensee
applying for renewal to complete an application. The sheriff shall submit the
application to the Idaho state police for a records check of state and
national databases. The Idaho state police shall conduct the records check and
return the results to the sheriff within thirty (30) days. The sheriff shall
not issue a renewal before receiving the results of the records check and must
deny a license if the applicant is disqualified under any of the criteria
listed in subsection (1), paragraphs (a) through (n) of this section. A
renewal license shall be valid for a period of five (5) years. A license so
renewed shall take effect on the expiration date of the prior license. A
licensee renewing ninety-one (91) days or more after the expiration date of
the license shall pay a late renewal penalty of ten dollars ($10.00) in
addition to the renewal fee. The fee shall be paid to the sheriff for the
purpose of enforcing the provisions of this chapter.
(5) Notwithstanding the requirements of this section, the sheriff of the
county of the applicant's residence may issue a temporary emergency license
for good cause pending review under subsection (1) of this section.
(6) A city, county or other political subdivision of this state shall not
modify the requirements of this section, nor may a political subdivision ask
the applicant to voluntarily submit any information not required in this
section. A civil action may be brought to enjoin a wrongful refusal to issue a
license or a wrongful modification of the requirements of this section. The
civil action may be brought in the county in which the application was made or
in Ada county at the discretion of the petitioner. Any person who prevails
against a public agency in any action in the courts for a violation of
subsections (1) through (5) of this section, shall be awarded costs, including
reasonable attorney's fees incurred in connection with the legal action.
(7) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, or
on property in which the person has any ownership or leasehold interest, a
person shall not carry a concealed weapon without a license to carry a
concealed weapon. For the purposes of this section, a concealed weapon means
any dirk, dirk knife, bowie knife, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other
deadly or dangerous weapon. The provisions of this section shall not apply to
any lawfully possessed shotgun or rifle.
(8) A county sheriff, deputy sheriff, or county employee who issues a
license to carry a concealed weapon under this section shall not incur any
civil or criminal liability as the result of the performance of his duties
under this section.
(9) While in any motor vehicle, inside the limits or confines of any
city, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his person
without a license to carry a concealed weapon. This shall not apply to any
firearm located in plain view whether it is loaded or unloaded. A firearm may
be concealed legally in a motor vehicle so long as the weapon is disassembled
or unloaded.
(10) In implementing the provisions of this section on behalf of the state
of Idaho, the sheriff shall make applications readily available at the office
of the sheriff or at other public offices in his jurisdiction.
(11) The sheriff of a county may issue a license to carry a concealed
weapon to those individuals between the ages of eighteen (18) and twenty-one
(21) years who in the judgment of the sheriff warrant the issuance of the
license to carry a concealed weapon. Such issuance shall be subject to
limitations which the issuing authority deems appropriate. Licenses issued to
individuals between the ages of eighteen (18) and twenty-one (21) years shall
be easily distinguishable from regular licenses.
(12) The requirement to secure a license to carry a concealed weapon under
this section shall not apply to the following persons:
(a) Officials of a county, city, state of Idaho, the United States, peace
officers, guards of any jail, court appointed attendants or any officer of
any express company on duty;
(b) Employees of the adjutant general and military division of the state
where military membership is a condition of employment when on duty;
(c) Criminal investigators of the attorney general's office, criminal
investigators of a prosecuting attorney's office, prosecutors and their
deputies;
(d) Any person outside the limits of or confines of any city while
engaged in lawful hunting, fishing, trapping or other lawful outdoor
activity;
(e) Any publicly elected Idaho official;
(f) Retired peace officers or detention deputies with at least ten (10)
years of service with the state or a political subdivision as a peace
officer or detention deputy and who have been certified by the peace
officer standards and training council;
(g) Any person who has a valid permit from a state or local law
enforcement agency or court authorizing him to carry a concealed weapon. A
permit issued in another state will only be considered valid if the permit
is in the licensee's physical possession.
(13) When issuing a license pursuant to this section, the sheriff may
require the applicant to demonstrate familiarity with a firearm and shall
accept any of the following, provided the applicant may select which one:
(a) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved
by the department of fish and game or a similar agency of another state;
or
(b) Completion of any national rifle association firearms safety or
training course, or any national rifle association hunter education
course; or
(c) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class
available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency,
community college, college, university, or private or public institution
or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors
certified by the national rifle association or the Idaho state police; or
(d) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course
or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or
any division or subdivision of a law enforcement agency or security
enforcement agency; or
(e) Presents evidence or equivalent experience with a firearm through
participation in organized shooting competition or military service; or
(f) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or
a county or municipality, unless the license has been revoked for cause;
or
(g) Completion of any firearms training or training or safety course or
class conducted by a state certified or national rifle association
certified firearms instructor.
(14) A person carrying a concealed weapon in violation of the provisions
of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(15) The sheriff of the county where the license was issued or the sheriff
of the county where the person resides shall have the power to revoke a
license subsequent to a hearing in accordance with the provisions of chapter
52, title 67, Idaho Code, for any of the following reasons:
(a) Fraud or intentional misrepresentation in the obtaining of a license;
or
(b) Misuse of a license, including lending or giving a license to another
person, or duplicating a license, or using a license with the intent to
unlawfully cause harm to a person or property; or
(c) The doing of an act or existence of a condition which would have been
grounds for the denial of the license by the sheriff; or
(d) The violation of any of the terms of this section; or
(e) The applicant is adjudicated guilty of or receives a withheld
judgment for a crime which would have disqualified him from initially
receiving a license.
(16) A person twenty-one (21) years of age or older issued a license to
carry a concealed weapon is exempt from any requirement to undergo a records
check at the time of purchase or transfer of a firearm from a federally
licensed firearms dealer. However, a temporary emergency license issued under
subsection (5) of this section shall not exempt the holder of the license from
any records check requirement. Temporary emergency licenses shall be easily
distinguishable from regular licenses.
(17) The attorney general is authorized to negotiate reciprocal agreements
with other states related to the recognition of licenses to carry concealed
weapons. The Idaho state police shall keep a copy and maintain a record of all
such agreements, which shall be made available to the public.
(18) The provisions of this section are hereby declared to be severable
and if any provision of this section or the application of such provision to
any person or circumstance is declared invalid for any reason, such
declaration shall not affect the validity of remaining portions of this
section.

Arrogant Bastard
September 23, 2008, 11:05 PM
Some states require notification and some states do not. I personally always show my license, even on the rare occasion that I am not carrying and I get pulled over. I've had great experiences with the police in these situations and none have ever involved any "paperwork" (tickets). One officer even gave me a lift during a freak snowstorm when my car slid off the road and got stuck in some ice.

Of course, if the local agencies were generally anti, I'd probably feel differently. At least around here, the police take the CHP as an indication that they're dealing with a non-criminal, responsible person.

I have yet to be pulled over since getting my CHL, but I have resolved that I will always hand over my CHL with my DL, whether or not I'm carrying -- everything I've heard has been that the LEO generally tends to treat you with a greater degree of professional courtesy, if not more leniently.

I figure the risk of notifiying when I don't need to is less than the risk of not notifying when I should have.

Dirty Dawg
September 23, 2008, 11:38 PM
I've been pulled over twice (in TX) and each time surrendered my license, CHP and insurance. On both occasions, once the officer became aware of my CHP, the tension level dropped to 0%. I can only assume that at that point, I became a "good guy" and not a potential threat. Also, surprisingly, in each instance I was not carrying.

Duke Junior
September 23, 2008, 11:47 PM
I've been pulled over twice (in TX) and each time surrendered my license, CHP and insurance. On both occasions, once the officer became aware of my CHP, the tension level dropped to 0%. I can only assume that at that point, I became a "good guy" and not a potential threat. Also, surprisingly, in each instance I was not carrying.

You don't have a choice in Texas,Dawg,nor do I in NC.(If we are actually carrying)
But do you believe those 10 states are not practicing gun control with their "Must Notify" LE Laws?I do.
With all due respect,Dirty.:)

Otis
September 24, 2008, 12:32 AM
I have a friend that is a Portland cop and they go through enough Sh!* as it is. They really do appreciate people being straight with them. Are you required to? No. Should you? That is for you to decide. If you have a problem with it then don’t say anything except when asked. But I always try to put my self in other people’s shoes. If I were that officer I would like to know if you were carrying a gun. These people put their lives on the line every second of every day. They don’t know if they are pulling over a meth head or a member of the PTA. Maybe I am naive but I try to live by I am good to you then you will be good to me. I would recommend that not to make a big deal out if it. Do you have the right to? Sure. Should you or is it a good idea? IMO I don’t think so, what do you have to gain by it. Just say yes sir and be on your way. Then you can post your frustrations on THR.

Otis

Stevie-Ray
September 24, 2008, 12:48 AM
In Michigan, we have to advise.
As the officer pulled in to take the report, I had my wallet in my hand. I passed my MCPL, my MDL and my pistol safety inspection papers to the officer.Doc, I understand everything but the safety inspection. I was told by a lawyer to lock those up in the safe, or wherever you keep your important paperwork, as they needn't be with the gun, as some thought. Has there been a change I don't know about?

Duke Junior
September 24, 2008, 01:28 AM
I have a friend that is a Portland cop and they go through enough Sh!* as it is. They really do appreciate people being straight with them. Are you required to? No. Should you? That is for you to decide. If you have a problem with it then don’t say anything except when asked. But I always try to put my self in other people’s shoes. If I were that officer I would like to know if you were carrying a gun. These people put their lives on the line every second of every day. They don’t know if they are pulling over a meth head or a member of the PTA. Maybe I am naive but I try to live by I am good to you then you will be good to me. I would recommend that not to make a big deal out if it. Do you have the right to? Sure. Should you or is it a good idea? IMO I don’t think so, what do you have to gain by it. Just say yes sir and be on your way. Then you can post your frustrations on THR.

Otis

Did you read this from mercop,a real cop, Otis and Drgeno,Arrogant Bastard,Count Glockula,Sean Dempsey,cassandrasdaddy,DirtyDawg and any others that feel this infringement on our 2A rights is acceptable?
This is gun control, pure and simple.
Again, "shall not be infringed" means just that.
As Standing Wolf so succinctly said:"My guns are none of the Government's business."
Let's get out of the Gun Control business.

From mercop:


Funny, I am retired now, but the last year I actually checked my stats was 2004 and I conducted over 1100 traffic stops on Rt 4O between Baltimore and Philly.

The people who were a danger to me buy having a firearm (criminals) just never seem to tell you they are carrying. IMHO there is no need during a normal traffic stop to inform the officer you are carrying a gun. Now if for some reason you have to get out of the car and he may see your gun, I think it would be courteous to let him know. The whole letting the officer know you have a gun thing is just like gun control. It makes no difference to the criminals. Just my $.02.

You put this in another current thread,Otis and I answered:




After all they will find out anyway. And going back to my second reason that would be why I would volunteer that information. He doesn’t know who he is dealing with. I may be a serial killer for all he knows. A nervous cop is not one I would like to be in front of.

Otis.

Duke:
But that's the whole point,Otis.You are an honest upstanding citizen.Is the serial killer going to volunteer ANY INFO to the cop?
Why are you and others so worried about nervous cops,end of shifts cops, want to get home to their families(as if we all don't)cops?
Stop worrying about cops and start thinking about your rights as an American.Your guns are none of the Government's business,Otis.
Remember that old bumper sticker "I fear the Government that fear's my gun?"
So true.There is a lot of fear of LE out there.

biggiesmalls
September 24, 2008, 01:30 AM
he would have "preferred" to be notified of your chl? tell him you would have PREFERRED not to have been pulled over. but we don't always get what we want. so if you're not in trouble for it then let that sh*t go.

YZR
September 24, 2008, 11:58 AM
Here, in depression country, AKA Michigan, we are obligated by law to inform. Even if we weren't I would inform them anyway.
If I put themselve in their shoes it's something I would want to know and would look differently on the person I pulled over had they volunteered the information but that's just me...

Nurv1717
September 24, 2008, 05:31 PM
I'm a resident of Portland, OR and had a similar situation that turned out to be MUCH less pleasant than the OP's experience. Driving home from a movie, after exiting the freeway, I turned right at a red light onto a one way street. Cop pulled me over about half a mile down the road. He asked if there was any reason I was in such a hurry (I knew I had not been speeding as I had just accelerated to the limit and saw him behind me after turning onto the road) so I said, no, just heading home.

He asks for my license and registration, I tell him it's in the glove box and get an ok to grab it (don't want a gun pointed at my head for reaching into my glove box). Hand it over to him. He asks if this is my car (I'm 24, Mercedes Benz, but I was quite nicely dressed at the time, whatever) I say yes. My name is on my license plate, lol. He takes it back, and seems like it is taking FOREVER. Like 10-15mins. later his "backup" arrives (officer 2). The backup cop is a real big guy, and from his posture and tone I'm not liking what has developed.

They ask why I didn't provide them w/ my CHL and I said I didn't see what it had to do w/ a traffic stop and I knew it would come up in their computer anyways, (in an overly respectful tone mind you) I don't want anything to escalate here. He says when I see a "guy like you" and then I come up to the car and see a gun on your hip I'm drawing out on you. I'm thinking well, for one it's CONCEALED and two I'm one of the good guys who went out of my way to get my CHL and three, I hope he's not referring to the fact that I'm black but can't think of anything else that separates me from average joe w/ a CHL.

He then tells me that I HAVE TO INFORM THEM IF I AM CARRYING :confused: and I said, sir if that is the case then I don't have a problem doing that, but in my CHL class and all my talking to friends w/ CHL's and officers I have not heard of such a rule on the books and I basically concede that this guy is ignorant and kind of a dick so I let it go. They ask me if I am carrying at the time, I say yes, and I offer to provide them w/ my CHL and they now don't need it. So, officer 1, who I assume is a rookie, the one who pulled me over, writes me my ticket and still at this point I don't know what for so I ask and he says "failure to yield to a traffic control device." Apparently I didn't come to a full and complete stop when I came to the light off the freeway exit.

So I left that situation with a pretty bad taste in my mouth for law enforcement around here and I KNOW I KNOW, there are good ones and bad ones, I have good friends that I respect very highly that are cops, detectives, etc. I called the Multnomah county concealed handgun licensing unit to get the facts straight and there is NO DUTY TO INFORM an officer you are carrying. I felt better about that but it would be nice if the officers knew the law they preached. Please don't take this as a rant on LEO's, just sharing my experience.

In the future, I will probably just give them my CHL and hopefully forego the unpleasantries. :)

Blarelli
September 24, 2008, 05:36 PM
In Utah, we're legally required to let them know
1.) If you have a permit.
2.) Whether or not you have a firearm on your person.

j_charles
September 24, 2008, 06:06 PM
If they have one and don't disclose that they do it makes one wonder what else they are hiding. Case in point, CWP Holder pulled over for a traffic violation, also hauling drugs.

And the moral of the story is "Don't do drugs." If a cop wants to search my entire car he won't find a thing but some used fast food wrappers. I try to avoid things like "breaking the law" which seems to help me stay out of trouble. ;) (sarcasm)

The Lone Haranguer
September 24, 2008, 10:31 PM
In AZ you are supposed to inform if asked. I was asked once, and I replied, "Yes, I have a gun, with a permit," and produced the permit. It went no further than that. But if not asked, I will not volunteer the information. It would serve no purpose, but more importantly, we are not here for LEO's convenience. Somebody has forgotten the "serve" part of "protect and serve."

John Wayne
September 24, 2008, 10:58 PM
I recently completed the CWP course in SC and am awaiting my permit. I am required to inform an officer that I am a CWP holder if asked for identification, and took it for granted that all other states had similar policies.

I don't think it's a bad idea, or that it's intrusive. Even in a state where I was not required to inform the officer, I think I would still do so, just like I'm not required to keep my hands on the steering wheel, turn off the car, or turn on the dome light at night.

I do all these things out of courtesy, and more often than not it will put you on better (I didn't say good) terms with the officer when he walks up to your car.

Duke Junior
September 24, 2008, 11:02 PM
In AZ you are supposed to inform if asked. I was asked once, and I replied, "Yes, I have a gun, with a permit," and produced the permit. It went no further than that. But if not asked, I will not volunteer the information. It would serve no purpose, but more importantly, we are not here for LEO's convenience. Somebody has forgotten the "serve" part of "protect and serve."

Now,if we just could have a nationwide crusade with your commonsense,we'll be on to something good.
Anything to count-act those "I want the LEO to feel relaxed and docile, and roll over so I can tickle his belly" citizens who have forgotten what the 2nd Amendment is all about.
Again,thank you for your intelligent comments,TLH.

Duke Junior
September 24, 2008, 11:14 PM
I recently completed the CWP course in SC and am awaiting my permit. I am required to inform an officer that I am a CWP holder if asked for identification, and took it for granted that all other states had similar policies.

I don't think it's a bad idea, or that it's intrusive. Even in a state where I was not required to inform the officer, I think I would still do so, just like I'm not required to keep my hands on the steering wheel, turn off the car, or turn on the dome light at night.

I do all these things out of courtesy, and more often than not it will put you on better (I didn't say good) terms with the officer when he walks up to your car.

As you now know only 10 out of 48 states have this demand, John.Now you no longer can take it for granted.
Do you feel this is an intrusion on your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms without any infringement?
38 states that I agree with with say yes, at least to this stipulation.Is "courtesy" more important than your rights,John?
What say you?

Steve Raacke
September 24, 2008, 11:16 PM
I don't carry my Louisiana Conceal Carry permit unless I'm conceal carrying. If I'm open carrying or simply transporting a gun in my car, viewed as an exension of my home, I don't need my permit on me. An officer can run my plate and get a flag telling him I'm licensed to conceal but that doesn't necessarily mean I am. I don't carry a fishing license when I'm not fishing, so I don't have my CCW permit when I'm open carrying.

Notch
September 24, 2008, 11:17 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667

Duke Junior
September 24, 2008, 11:21 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667

What is the purpose of this link?

Raccoon
October 13, 2008, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the link. I was monitoring this thread and had no idea about the situation. It's hard to believe someone would pull such a stunt against a gun owner, a Russian gun owner at that!

Just desserts are best served cold. :evil:

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