[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

After seeing some feral dogs out at the hunting grounds, I'm inclined to start packing my Dan Wesson 6" .357 mag this fall. Would you go with 125 gr HPs or 158 grainers or 180s or what? This could be a longish shot, not pure self-defense, at up to 60 or 70 yards (but probably a max of 50 yards). I'm thinking a 158 soft point, but maybe the 125s. Also, I'm considering getting/carry a T/C single shot in .223 instead for this purpose - so tell me which would have more blast - the .357 mag with a cylinder gap blast plus the muzzle, or a .223 rem T/C, muzzle only? I don't really care to get tinnitus... Thanks.

[ashtxsniper]

125 grn hollowpoint

[Jst1mr]

Check your local/state laws. Here, only a LE or conservation officer may shoot a dog. Have seen and read of a few folks running afoul of this here, and believe me, they don't get the benefit of positive public opinion on their way to heavy fines, etc. This may be in spite of seeing the dog(s) harassing deer, livestock, etc. All that being said, I would guess that a .22WMR would suffice w/o making too big of a commotion...

[Shawnee]

+1 for the 125gr. HPs.

:cool:

[Ron James]

Why a .357 ? Back when i was a kid in Michigan { yes I know that was a long time a go} I used a single shot .22 to take care of several packs that was running our sheep.

[opd743]

As long as its legal where you are... Any of the choices will be fine.

[Bowhunter57]

Wheather it's legal or not, the public view might be something else to contend with, if were to get out that you shot a dog. :scrutiny: I would attempt to error on the side of right and/or being legal. Even so, keeping it quiet would work well in your favor. :)

You might want to consider the "SSS" rule...Shoot, Shovel and Shut-up. ;)

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

[HB]

Whether it's legal or not, the public view might be something else to contend with, if were to get out that you shot a dog. I would attempt to error on the side of right and/or being legal

I'm in this camp... Shooting dogs is not really necessary in my opinion. Up at our farm, our neighbor has his dogs running loose most of the time, as do most other people. He locks them up during rifle deer season, but it doesn't seem to make a difference during bow season (as in right now). The like the dogs, as they are nice and actually follow me around. Although I have seen a few "feral" dogs, most are likely to be somebody's pet, and if somebody shot my dog, I would not be happy.

I understand in some states you are within your rights to shoot but sometimes, it seems that the dogs actually stir up the bedded deer, giving me more shots.

It's also illegal to shoot dogs in Missouri, (but it is legal to shoot a human on your property :eek:).

Plus, you already have a rifle, shoot with that if you must.

PS, the T/C in .223 would probably make your ears hurt worse, but not that big of a difference
HB

[MCgunner]

.38 special to whatever. Don't take a lot to kill a dog. Done it with a .22 NAA mini revolver before, head shot at 20 yards. :D Just used what I had on me. I have no qualms about shooting mangy mutts around my land. In recent years I haven't had a lot of problem with wild dogs. I think all the hogs that have moved in might be taking care of the problem. :D Haven't seen a dog pack in a long time, though.

Me, I'll shoot 'em on sight. They kill wildlife and live stock and even my cats. I've had my cats attacked and killed several times over the years. I've had enough of feral dog packs. No one around on my place, anyway. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. Really, no need to shovel. Lots of vultures around to take care of 'em. If he's got a collar, I'll leave him alone, unless he's chasing a calf or deer or something.

Even in Texas, seems dogs are getting more rights than humans. I don't care. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. It's still legal to protect livestock here or cats (property) or yourself. The laws are especially liberal where livestock is concerned. Dead chicken, dead dog, someone's pet, no problem. Don't have to be a wild dog and you don't even have to catch him in the act. Dogs are extremely destructive and letting 'em run loose on someone's land is asking to not see 'em anymore. In Texas, we can take care of the problem ourselves, don't have to ask big brother. If we had to do that, the problem would never be solved. :rolleyes: Want it done right, do it yourself.

[koja48]

Don't get your butt in trouble, but I'd shy away from a .22 . . . some dogs are tough. .38 on up ought to do the trick, however.

[MCgunner]

We just got a lab pup. Cats are used to him and play with him, already. He's getting bigger. I'm hoping he'll protect 'em before long, though he's in a kennel. He's my son-in-law's, actually, but I'm trying to get rid of them, too. Soon as they have a house rented somewhere, I won't have Ruger around as much (the dog's name). But, I plan to use him when we get him good and trained. :D He seems like a really good dog.

[oneounceload]

Why not let your local animal control officer do it?

[HB]

Animal Control is not in option outside of city limits......
As an addition to my post above, I don't care about dogs killing livestock (I don't have any), and last time I checked, Dogs don't eat soybeans;)

HB

[TCB in TN]

Unfortunately for many of us out in the country the "animal" control officer is NOT much of an option, seeing as we only have one 1/2 time for a county that takes 45 minutes or more to travel across at it narrowest point, at interstate speeds. Further more FAR to many people see the best option for THEM to live trap dogs, cats, and other animals that are a PITA to them and "relocating" them out into the "country", unfortunately those of us out in the country end up having to deal with them. Moving your headache out into the "country" is just passing the buck! Here in our neck of the woods, anything over 5 lbs w/o a collar is pretty much considered to be fair game! If its got a collar you don't shoot, you catch and call, but w/o collar you SSS or similar. BTW I DO have livestock and am tired of having my horses run through fences, chickens, ducks, and geese killed, and calves/goats/hogs chewed on by the strays dumped out here by so many self righteous live trappers!

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Hmmm, I guess since I don't know for sure whether they are feral or someone's pets (I assume they are feral because no collars), I could take this approach: Trap them, then take them to some surrounding farmhouses (there are at least 4 houses within a mile), and ask if the dogs belong to them. If I find an owner, explain that the next time, I will be shooting the dogs - give them a chance to keep them on their property. That might be the right thing to do here... How do you trap a dog?

Or is it fair and right to assume that no collar= feral? I for one would not be dumb enough to not have a collar on one of my dogs that freely roams the countryside. I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog with a collar (unless I actually saw it attacking me or mine), but....

I actually have a feral horse that is causing problems too, but I don't think the .357 mag would cut it, and besides, people don't collar horses, so how can I tell if it's "feral" or just someone's pet?

[buck460XVR]

Around here we have a "county humane officer" who can be called to investigate suspicions of dogs being feral or just running loose. He then will determine if the dogs are feral and if they are may give permission to the landowner to use whatever methods he needs to remedy the problem. If the dogs are just pets running loose, the owners are responsible for any damage they do and can be fined for not having them under control and/or trespassing. Yep, here dog owners can be fined and prosecuted for trespassing for allowing their dogs to roam on other peoples property. Before we had the county humane officer, the local warden was the one to call.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, that might be a good idea, except that when I see them, it's only for few seconds before they're gone, so there is roughly 0.000001% chance that they would still be around when a county officer shows up, and even less of a chance of getting a good look at them, for investigative purposes. Hmmmm. Maybe it goes something like this:

County Officer: OK, Gimme a description
Me: OK, 2 dogs, looked like ......
County Officer: [goes around to neighbors, asking them "do you have 2 dogs, look like...." ]
If he doesn't find someone, then I get the ok to dispose...what if he does determine that they "belong" somewhere? What then? Because, one of two things would happpen:

(a) if he tells them, from now on keep your dogs off his property or he's going to dispose of them, or
(b) "oh, ok, they're yours?" in that case he tells me "sorry they belong to someone, nothing we can do - you must just continue to let them roam free on your land."

Now if it's (a) then that means I can shoot them *regardless* of what the county officer discovers - whether they do or don't belong anywhere, but I guess we need the officer so that a warning is issued. If it's (b) - well it can't be (b) because that makes no sense - I can't be forced to allow them to trespass and harass & eat my wildlife if I don't want - right?

??

[Jst1mr]

Maybe someone can recall this better than me... Years ago, in Minnesota, seems someone shot a dog that was harassing animals on their property. Turned out to be the president of the University of MN's prize bird dog. As is the norm in our society(or so it seems), the deepest pockets determined the expertise of the lawyers involved and hence the outcome, which, needless to say, did not go in favor of the landowner. Seem to recall damages amounting to the dog's purchase cost, all vet and food/care bills, potential stud value - on and on and on to bankruptcy. All because of one party being too rich and powerful to be able to control their dog as we peons are expected to...

[koja48]

Good rule of thumb . . . if you have a dog problem & an accurate gun, you had best have a quick shovel (not to mention "no nosy neighbors").

[MCgunner]

Well, that might be a good idea, except that when I see them, it's only for few seconds before they're gone, so there is roughly 0.000001% chance that they would still be around when a county officer shows up,

Bingo. We don't have a "county animal control" at all, though. Down here, we just sorta take care of things. Way it's always been. Don't rely on gov'ment, that's what city folks do. Ask Mayor Nagin. :rolleyes: Sure works great, don't it?

[TCB in TN]

Hmmm, I guess since I don't know for sure whether they are feral or someone's pets (I assume they are feral because no collars), I could take this approach: Trap them, then take them to some surrounding farmhouses (there are at least 4 houses within a mile), and ask if the dogs belong to them. If I find an owner, explain that the next time, I will be shooting the dogs - give them a chance to keep them on their property. That might be the right thing to do here... How do you trap a dog?

Or is it fair and right to assume that no collar= feral? I for one would not be dumb enough to not have a collar on one of my dogs that freely roams the countryside. I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog with a collar (unless I actually saw it attacking me or mine), but....

I actually have a feral horse that is causing problems too, but I don't think the .357 mag would cut it, and besides, people don't collar horses, so how can I tell if it's "feral" or just someone's pet?

It is absolutely amazing how fast people forget about a dog they owned when someone comes around looking for the owner and asking about paying for damages!

[cliffy]

Feral seeming or not, shooting a common breed of dog is dicey at best, although some are truly wild and vicious. A .357 Magnum with 125 Grain Hornady Hollow-Point works swell with 16.5 grains of Alliant 2400 rifle powder and a magnum pistol primer. Only detriment is it's LOUD, but it'll surely roll a vicious mutt into a ditch! cliffy

[EShell]

http://www.livetrap.com/cgi/search.cgi?user_id=49140&database=dbase1.exm&template=template1.shtml&0_option=1&0=110B

[cliffy]

What does one do with a vicious mongrel once captured? Can't release it, don't want to kill it, give it to a "HUMANE SOCIETY!" I'm sure they'll thank you. cliffy

[EShell]

Perhaps no one "wants" 'to kill it, but this may be the correct solution. If it's actually vicious, truly feral and in a trap, a CB cap will easily and discreetly handle it.

I have no patience at all with free ranging dogs and cats, especially those wantonly destroying wildlife or livestock, but trapping it first allows one to evaluate it's status before destruction might be deemed necessary. At one time, I had a herd of over 100 domestic meat rabbits that were suddenly nearly decimated by free ranging "pet" dogs and this (trapping) is what it took to end the problem. Even if the dogs cannot get through the wire pens, the rabbits will beat themselves to death trying to escape and I don't know how many litters I lost to trampling by frantic does.

Having it in a trap obligates the animal control officer to (eventually) show up and deal with it as well, as is his duty. Here, unless it threatens kids or something equally heinous, they won't even come out unless you've already confined the animal.

Maybe the animal control officer doesn't feel like dealing with it - but who cares, it's his job. In any case, doesn't seem to me like trapping a stray and attempting to hand him over to animal control will make a person nearly as unpopular as flat out killing the neighbor's dog, no matter how bad he needs it.

You could always give it to PETA for . . umm . . . safekeeping: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[Clipper]

I simply dug a 6X6 behind the barn, and dogs (we had lots of drop-offs and strays, even some dummy's pair of shorthairs attacking one of my goats) harrassing my livestock were simply shot and dumped in, a few shovels of dirt, problem solved. And there was room for lots of dogs (and feral cats, woodchucks, skunks, etc.) in there before a fresh hole was needed...

BTW, I generally used 145gr Winchester silvertip HP's in my blackhawk, but a head shot from my BL-22 with stingers worked fine, too.

[jeepmor]

Live trapping a vicious dog . . . then what?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does one do with a vicious mongrel once captured? Can't release it, don't want to kill it, give it to a "HUMANE SOCIETY!" I'm sure they'll thank you. cliffy

I'm sure they'll thank you....and kill it for you.:rolleyes: but you won't get fined.

[MCgunner]

What does one do with a vicious mongrel once captured? Can't release it, don't want to kill it, give it to a "HUMANE SOCIETY!" I'm sure they'll thank you. cliffy

W have lots of Chinese and Vietnamese families living around here. I won't go to dinner with 'em for stir fry. :D Got a friend who was stationed in Korea that ate dog, though, said it was good.

[buck460XVR]

again, I recommend contacting a warden or local animal shelter first. Even if there is no designated animal control officer, whoever has jurisdiction will have a policy....it may very well be that it is S-S-S(as Wisconsin's has been on feral cats for years). Most all state DNR web sites have a link to ask questions.......takes no more effort than posting here. I have used Wisconsin's several times and have gotten accurate and courteous replies generally within 24 hours......no need to give a name, just an e-mail address.

Shooting one or two feral dogs will probably not eliminate your problem. I've had two experiences with feral dogs and both times to took finding the den and the breeding bitches. It took killing these females and all of their pups. It also took waiting by the dens to shoot or trap the remaining dogs that were out hunting. In both cases the number of animals involved was more than ten.

True feral dogs in rural areas are rare. Domestic dogs, unlike cats and hogs, do not readily have the tools to survive in the wild. Like homeless people they generally need dumps/dumpsters or other places to scrounge for food, someplace to steal food from, or handouts from folk who feel sorry for them. In my cases, one food source was a local city dump and the other was a large commercial hog operation that threw dead pigs/piglets in a deep ravine behind the barn. Even those that turn truly wild need some sort of food source during their transition.....and even these are generally second or third generation. True feral dogs generally have a hard time surviving even under the best of conditions.....their coats if long, are dull and matted and if shorthaired, one can count all of their ribs and vertebrae. A dog with a silky long coat or with enough meat on him to cover his bones is more than likely someones pet....running loose. True feral dogs are also not species specific....if you see a Lab, a Setter and a Shorthair running together chasing deer odds are they aren't feral. A good friend of mine works at the local vet clinic and they see an average of 6-10 dogs a year that have been shot with bullets and/or arrows. In most cases the person responsible is caught, and ends up paying for the vet bills, restitution and a hefty fine. Plus they get their name in the paper.

A disturbing trend I have seen here lately at THR is the suggestion of using unethical and/or illegal methods to solve a problem such as this. In a democracy such as we have here in the U.S., the loss of rights and privileges is generally preceded by an abuse of said rights/privileges. This is especially true when it comes to guns....the Brady Bill is a prime example. Funny how some will whine about the potential loss of our second amendment rights, and restrictions in the privilege to hunt, but in the next breath suggest an illegal/unethical abuse of the same said rights. Take the High Road.....make sure of the rules and make positive identification of your quarry.

[langenc]

Shoot every now and then just to get the neighbors used to the sound. Then one day it wont be a big deal.

[Javelin]

So some SOB drops their animal off in the county b/c they move into an apartment (or whatever reason) and now your going to shoot the dog?

Come on.

[Art Eatman]

Javelin, it's not at all uncommon for feral dogs and edge-of-town dogs to form packs and mess with livestock. A buddy of mine near Georgetown lost about fifteen sheep to such dogs. One dog he shot had a nice collar and brass tag with the phone number. "My dog wouldn't do that!" Yeah, well, the dog had blood and wool in its mouth.

We had a dozen-dog pack out here for a while. They got chased off from trying to pull down a colt, and were seen pulling down a buck. One woman had to run for her house to escape--and fortunately, she was close to home.

I grant that "It's not the dog's fault" but that only means the responsibility is on the no-good SOB who threw the dog out to make out the best it could. Back when I was ranching, my livestock was far more important to me than some dog. A calf's a $400 bill, and I don't give those away as quickly as I'll provide a bullet.

That's just reality, is all.

[Quoheleth]

When I was a kid (we lived north-east of Georgetown, TX, Art!) we had a pack of feral dogs take down all four of our 200-250 pound calves. That was a lot of $$ down the drain. Three were dead by the time I found them @ 6:20; the fourth was wishing he was dead. Had to put him down with a .22...:mad:...

Dad called a buddy with the county sherriff's dept. He was told that if dogs were on our property, we could "exercise extreme prejudice" against the pack of dogs. The next four weekends, my best friend & I were dog hunting - me with my .270 Savage and him with his .308 Ruger. I took one at almost 200 yards, as I recall, the week after we lost our calves.

To answer the OP, back then I needed a rifle to reach out & touch those mutts. Given your choices, I would go with the .223 TC and a varmint-type bullet for devistating expansion.

Q

[DeadHorrorFan]

You know, I'm probably in the minority here, but WHO CARES if the dog belongs to someone. If it isn't under the owner's control and is causing you a problem by either interfering in your property or even making you uneasy by crossing paths with it, take it out. If the owner isn't responsible enough to control and maintain his animals, then he doesn't deserve to own them. You're the advanced species here. You're in control, not the dog. His owner wants him to "run free"....so set him "free".

[Soldiersurfs]

If it isn't under the owner's control and is causing you a problem by either interfering in your property or even making you uneasy by crossing paths with it, take it out. If the owner isn't responsible enough to control and maintain his animals, then he doesn't deserve to own them. You're the advanced species here. You're in control, not the dog. His owner wants him to "run free"....so set him "free".

And what if it accidently got away from the owner and they are a few 100m behind?

[MCgunner]

You know, I'm probably in the minority here, but WHO CARES if the dog belongs to someone. If it isn't under the owner's control and is causing you a problem by either interfering in your property or even making you uneasy by crossing paths with it, take it out. If the owner isn't responsible enough to control and maintain his animals, then he doesn't deserve to own them. You're the advanced species here. You're in control, not the dog. His owner wants him to "run free"....so set him "free".

Yes, good point. And, if the owner is 100 yards behind the dog on MY place, he's trespassing, too. He'd better worry about himself, screw the dog.

[Soldiersurfs]

Yes, good point. And, if the owner is 100 yards behind the dog on MY place, he's trespassing, too. He'd better worry about himself, screw the dog So if someone gets a flat near your property and gets out to fix it ...... the family pet gets loose , you feel its justified to fire on them? Well arent you just the poster child for the LEFT

[MCgunner]

No, but if he's walkin' around MY place, he's nowhere NEAR a road that a non-4WD or dirt bike could traverse. Hell, most times he'd need waders just to get down there on foot, though it's pretty dry right now. Not to mention he'd need a death wish to walk out in that crap without snake boots what with all the rattlers. I have a cell phone, ya know, and trespass not justifiable in Texas where as killing a dog can be. I have had a kid arrested for night hunting from his jeep on my place before. I got on stand rather early, he got stuck in a mud hole and couldn't go anywhere, I called the game warden. That was satisfying considering I've had hog traps and stands stolen off the place. You CAN use lethal force to protect property in Texas, not that I would do that. But, I am a little fed up with thieves and trespassers down there.

So, if the "left" thinks that trespass and helping yourself to your neighbor's stuff and hunting illegally should not be punishable by jail time, well, okay, I'm a poster child for 'em. :rolleyes: I never said I'd shoot anyone that didn't need shootin' (self defense), but I sure as hell carry a cell phone and know how to dial 911. I've done it before and if he didn't before, that 16 year old kid now has a criminal record and I ain't lost any sleep about doing it. Little fart got off with probation. I was hoping for 6 months anyway. The really fun part of the deal, he was in a Jeep Cherokee, was knowing he was coming up on that hole. I saw his headlights go under water. ROFLMAO! The game wardens took his gun and hauled off his vehicle. Not sure what ever happened to 'em, but the motor was no doubt ruined. You ain't gettin' down there in a Toyota Corrolla, I can tell ya that, not even when it's dry! I don't take the wife's car down there, don't wanna replace the exhaust system. Hell, I got my 4x4 Toyota truck stuck down there twice. You think someone is going to be DRIVING down there? There is a road a mile away where I park to ride the dirt bike in or walk. It dead ends at a boat ramp on the bay. Ain't like travelers are driving through there. Most fishermen don't take their dogs on the boat with 'em. :rolleyes: There's lots of boat traffic up and down that road, and some oil field trucks, that's about it. It's the very remoteness of the road down there that attracts idiots to dump their unwanted puppies on the place. I've seen ONE dog down there with a collar on it and it was a small dog. I didn't even think about shooting it, not big enough to hurt much bigger than a rabbit. There are some houses a couple miles away. Guess he was lost. If the snakes didn't get him, perhaps a hog might have. LOL

[scotjute]

Use whatever is most accurate for your gun. For me its 158grn Soft Points.
I have used .22 mag pistol rounds very effectively on dog size targets.

[rugerman]

We had a problem with strays several years ago I asked the local sheriff what to do and he said to shoot them (no neighbors for miles) and if that didn't work soak some sponge in used cooking oil and throw them in the woods (can't digest them & it clogs up their digestive tract) problem solved.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

We had a problem with strays several years ago I asked the local sheriff what to do and he said to shoot them (no neighbors for miles) and if that didn't work soak some sponge in used cooking oil and throw them in the woods (can't digest them & it clogs up their digestive tract) problem solved.

Now see, that's where I'd draw the line. Shooting them is quite humane. Clogging up thier digestive tracts for slow death is highly inhumane and frankly, evil.

If I see no collar ==> Shoot
If I see a collar, first time ==> No Shoot, and ask around farmhouses.
If I see a collar, 2nd, 3rd, 4th time ==> Shoot

I think that's the best way to handle it.