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atk
September 10, 2003, 02:18 PM
Hi,

Warning: This is a little long. It may not appear to be on topic, but I think it is pretty close. It has to do with my choices about RKBA.



Along with some other members of this board, I role-play (not playing with other THR members, but - well, you get the idea, right?). I get to hang around with my firends that way, and we get to do something inexpensive and creative and have fun.

A few weeks back, I was running a game and one of the players was loaned a knife to sharpen her pencil. I don't know this person (she was a friend that one of the players brought in), and everyone started teasing her about being extremely dangerous with a knife. From my perspective, I couldn't tell whether or not they were joking, and decided to prepare for the potential problem. This girl was sitting directly between myself and one other player, whom I'll call "Bob". Bob would have been a backstop, so I asked him to move (he didn't know that I carried, yet). He obliged, and I had a safe backstop should the girl go crazy, like everyone else was saying she would. When some other players figured out what was going on (most of them know I ccw), I was told that they were just teasing, and she wouldn't really do anything like that.

The topic came up later, at a different game, and Bob was informed that I ccw (most of my friends already know, and are perfectly okay with it). He was interested in it, and asked to see the gun. I obliged (most of the players already know), making the firearm safe, explaining the 4 rules, the operation of the firearm, etc.

Next, one of the other gamers - the one hosting this game - is interested. We'll call this gamer "Charlie" (Charlie is only letting us use his place, he's not the one running the game). Charlie works in a store that sells firearms (though he doesn't handle them) and had discussed having me help him learn firearm safety. He also lives in the same house as his parents. I agree to explain everything to Charlie, and start going over it all from the beginning. Now, here's where the problem starts: Charlie's father comes home and walks in the room, and sees what's going on. I immediately tell him that I'm explaining firearms safety to his son, and offer to show him my license. He declines the license viewing, and asks us to put the gun away. I agree, explain to Charlie about how to safely hand a firearm to someone, recieve it, load, and holster.

The next time I see Charlie, he informs me that his parents don't want firearms in their house. I tell him "Okay. I just won't be going there any more." The next game session has been moved, in order to accomodate my choices. We can't use that location very often, as there's not really enough room. At this point, I either have to find another location for the game, or I have to leave the game.

I'd rather not leave the game, so I have to ask: does anyone have any reccomendations as to where, in the Danvers, MA area, I should look into? Games usually run from 6 to 10, sometimes slightly later. I need to find somewhere somewhat private, so we don't have to deal with lots of interruptions. We can't use my house, since I live about 45 minutes away, and everyone else lives about 2 minutes away (and I don't think they'll agree to it, but I can try...). The other players don't have enough room to host the game. I've got until 24SEP03 to find a new location.

Any suggestions? Do you think I've handled this all wrong, and what did I do wrong?

Looking back on this (as I preview my post), I could have asked her to put down the knife. Bob had just gotten out of the way when I found out that she wasn't really dangerous, so I think not asking was okay. I'd rather have the backstop ready before asking her, anyhow.

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Bigjake
September 10, 2003, 02:33 PM
Well, its called concealed for a reason, continue to use the other place and if the subject gets brought up again just say you are unarmed, and if you did a good enough job packing, no-one should be able to see and therefore wont know unless they pat you down...

Augustwest
September 10, 2003, 02:43 PM
Hafta disagree with the idea of carrying firearms on private property when the owner has expressly said not to. RKBA isn't the only right that should be respected.

As far as gaming, is there a restuarant in the area with a "banquet room" they might rent to you cheaply?

TallPine
September 10, 2003, 02:55 PM
Personally, I have to disagree with the whole concept of pulling your carry weapon out, unloading it, and showing it to people.

If you carry it for protection, then it should always be loaded and in its holster unless you are actively defending your life ( or unless you are at home and cleaning it, etc ).

You should have offered to take one or more of your friends to the range sometime, instead.

Just my $0.02, not meant to be a personal criticism.

atk
September 10, 2003, 03:17 PM
Bigjake & Augustwest:

I agree with Augustwest, here. "Charlie"'s parents have the right to control their property, and that which makes use of their property. I do not wish to infringe upon their rights.



Tallpine:

While that's a potential concern, I was also carrying a BUG (I try to do so whenever I can). I do intend to offer a range trip to my friends, and see who bites.


As for whether things read as personal criticizms or not: go ahead and criticize! I posted what happened so that I could get other people's opinions, and weigh them against my own. If nobody says what they think, how am I gonna learn?

RTFM
September 10, 2003, 04:12 PM
I think you did the best that you could do in the situation.
I'll *assume* that you know these people in the first place, or you probably would not drive 2 hours to play. (realizing that the drive time was not in the first post, but I think relevant)

You felt comfortable enough to talk about your firearm.
The problem I see is that if you now see one of them outside this gaming environment (EG. North-shore mall) will they do something stupid like tell the friend there with "See ATK over there, he's got a gun"

And you know what kind of problems even that word can cause in Mass.


People I gamed with were all my friends, and I can understand the strange people that come alon to them sometimes.
I think you did good asking Bob to move. Should the SHTF you would have had a clear shot, better to be safe.
Your right about "Charlie"'s parents having the right to control their property. You were a guest.

All that being said, I might not have chosen that location to display my firearm.
Invite them to the range some day and see how it goes.
Lord knows Mass needs all the Pro gunner/RKBA people it can get if your going to have a chance there.


Try these folks. I have never played with them, i just remember their adds.
There is also a group in Attleboro but I can not remember their name.

Good luck

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralMAGamers/
^^^^^
Worcester to Springfield

http://www.unitygames.org/
^^^^^
Bridgewater

bogie
September 10, 2003, 04:20 PM
one of the players was loaned a knife to sharpen her pencil. I don't know this person

Now, I might be being a bit silly here, but I think that some folks need to seriously adjust their paranoia level.

Dave T
September 10, 2003, 04:21 PM
I side with TallPine on this issue.

First though, I don't think it's necessary for all your friends to know you carry, and those who do should respect your privacy and not blab about it to anyone else. The decision to inform people should be yours, not somebody who knows you.

I think you were wrong to take out you gun and show it to anyone, no matter if you unloaded it or not. That wasn't the place for that kind of behavior - it belonged on a range or at least in your own home, not someone else's home.

Finally, the home owner has as much right to not want firearms in his home as you do to carry. Seeing people "playing around with a gun", which is probably how he percieved it, may well be what turned him off to the idea.

As to where to play your games, that's another problem only you can solve.

swingcatt
September 10, 2003, 04:42 PM
Good job of keeping your head and recognizing a potential problem. Something to keep in mind though...I teach my PPC class that you should always have self defense options other than your gun. One of the cardinal rules of self defense should be that your firearm should be one of your last sources of defense, not the first thing you go for - unless the situation dictates otherwise. Think of it as a ladder, on the bottom rung you have avoidance of a situation (passive then active), moving up the ladder you have non-harmful ranged self defense (OC spray, taser, etc,) then moving to non lethal close range self defense and finally to lethal self defense. Lets suppose she started playing around (you were "role playing" after all) and suddenly screamed that she was going to slay every one of you and started waving it around, it would be a lot easier to explain to the cops why you OC'd her in the face rather than double tapped her in the COM.

I also agree with the ones saying you should keep it concealed, never show it to your friends or anyone else except those you trust with your life. It's concealed for a reason. The only reason it should be out period is when you are ready to use it.

My opinions,YMMV.

SC

atk
September 10, 2003, 04:44 PM
RTFM:

You are correct, I already know the regular players.

Your thoughts about people saying stupid things at the wrong time is not lost on me. I made the mistake of discussing it with some of them, and it's just gotten around to them all. The cat's out of the the bag on this one. I just have to avoid it occurring in other places.

I'll also heed the advice of not displaying the firearm in an uncontrolled environment (i.e. non-range, not my house, or not owned by the person it's being displayed to).

Also, thanks for the links. I'll give them a try.



bogie:

It wasn't the fact that she had a knife that I was reacting to. It was the reaction of everyone else, with comments about here being dangerous, that she shouldn't be allowed to have a knife, etc. I wouldn't have cared whether she used a knife or a regular sharpener, or a pen, except for the reaction of the other people in the room.

Dave T:

I think I addressed most of what you said in the bit directed at RTFM. If I accredited him with your comments (or vice versa), I apologize.

As far as where to game, I was hoping to get (and have gotten) some recommendations about where to look, including checking the local resturaunts, and the gaming sites. That's really what I was hoping for - not necessaraly a solution, just advice on how to reach one that is equitable for all.

All:
Thanks for all the comments. They're appreciated :)

atk
September 10, 2003, 04:49 PM
swingcatt:

You're right, a gun should be the last resort (well, just before giving up and dying, anyhow). I've purchased a couple kinds of OC, but I just don't like the range they give (on a still day, the things I've tried only go about 2 feet). I'm still looking for something that will go 5 or more - if it exists.

Your comment:

Lets suppose she started playing around (you were "role playing" after all) and suddenly screamed that she was going to slay every one of you and started waving it around


got me thinking a bit, though. I hope that I would recognize someone as just playing around. If not... I want some OC in my pocket. Point taken.

Carlos Cabeza
September 10, 2003, 04:55 PM
atk, You learn quickly.

swingcatt
September 10, 2003, 05:12 PM
atk, you would make a good student. :)


SC

atk
September 10, 2003, 05:20 PM
Heh. It's easier to learn when both interested in the topic, and the conclusion doesn't require much of a jump.

bogie
September 12, 2003, 04:52 PM
Well, I know folks, who when handed a knife to sharpen a pencil, would prompt the statement "Uh oh... Someone get a tourniquet ready - Joe is about to do surgery. Everyone who wants to keep all their limbs had better get out of the way!"

Now, I wasn't there. But I get the distinct feeling, given the situation, that someone was joking.

I mean, hey... I'm sometimes the "token gun nut" at a social function. I would view things VERY nastily if someone were to joke (and some of the folks who don't know crap about guns DO joke...) "Hey, Bogie's here, and he might go occupational if he doesn't get a Shiner in him soon!" and someone started obviously looking for a clean field of fire at me...

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