Thanks to those that run the site


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Harvster
September 25, 2008, 11:47 AM
Just a thanks to those working to make this place what it is. It would be nice to have advance warning though since I plan my day around visits to THR. As for the infighting, perhaps a duel?:D

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fivepaknh
September 25, 2008, 11:57 AM
Since no one has seemed to ask yet, what's going on? Who owns the site now? Inquiring minds want to know.

ilbob
September 25, 2008, 11:58 AM
Since no one has seemed to ask yet, what's going on? Who owns the site now? Inquiring minds want to know.Its very confusing.

Sistema1927
September 25, 2008, 12:03 PM
Oh boy, I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the best places on the whole internet is heading for the trash heap.

Derek Zeanah
September 25, 2008, 12:04 PM
Nothing has changed regarding ownership in years. THR continues on the same course it's been on, though some wish to see some changes.

kentucky_smith
September 25, 2008, 12:05 PM
Whoops. Nevermind. Take a look here: Dirty tricks will lead to no good.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667&page=3

Vitamin G
September 25, 2008, 12:06 PM
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info.

plexreticle
September 25, 2008, 12:07 PM
Don't fix what isn't broke.

Don't let greed ruin a good thing. We have too much of that in the world already.

Derek Zeanah
September 25, 2008, 12:09 PM
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info.Just because it's on the internet doesn't necessarily make it so...

fivepaknh
September 25, 2008, 12:11 PM
So Oleg owns the site?

Nitrogen
September 25, 2008, 12:22 PM
What is it about the internet that brings about these kinds of things?

LB7_Driver
September 25, 2008, 12:38 PM
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info.
Just because it's on the internet doesn't necessarily make it so...
Nor does it make it false.

Oleg Volk started this site several years ago. At some time in the past the system administrator switched ownership of the domain name to himself. These are known facts, and easily verifiable.

What is not known (to me) are the details of how or why that happened. Nor is it known why there are apparent problems with transferring ownership of the domain name back to Oleg Volk... which is what he apparently wants.

I would like to know more.

harmonic
September 25, 2008, 12:42 PM
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info

Well, why not just provide the link?

I've been to that, and other, boards where this is being discussed. Oleg has not made his case.

If, however, you read this:

http://thehighroad.org/announcement.php?f=46

......particularly this statement:

I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7

.......Derek has made a clear case of ownership.

In the absence of written agreements, the courts will likely judge in favor of the above, if it goes that far. I can't see it going that far. Already, in the threads on the other forums where Oleg is soliciting funds, people are starting to question the integrity of his case.

VHinch
September 25, 2008, 12:43 PM
I've had the feeling lately that THR was kind of going downhill, I hope this doesn't push it over the edge.

So far there appears to only be one side of this story publicly available, and it does paint a different picture than what little we've seen here. FWIW, I've been here since the day the lights came on, and I always thought of it as Oleg's site as well.

fivepaknh
September 25, 2008, 12:51 PM
It appears there are two sides to every story. It's something the real legal experts will have to hash out, not the armchair lawyers.

Kestryll
September 25, 2008, 12:53 PM
THR is and always has been Oleg's site, this is common knowledge among the online gun forum community.
Co-opting the domain name and locking out the owner is NOT a claim of ownership, neither is hosting the site.
If that were the case then GoDaddy would own hundreds if not thousands of forums.

I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7
In the absence of written agreements, the courts will likely judge in favor of the above, if it goes that far.
Actually, in the absence of written agreements that will be seen as a choice a private party made and NOT a transfer of ownership.

THR has been stolen and that's just all there is to it.

fivepaknh
September 25, 2008, 12:58 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but let's look at a few points.

Derek obviously had access to the account where the domain name is held.
Derek may have kept receipts of any expenses he incurred hosting this site.
He does have a history here as being at the very least part of the senior staff.

We only see what's posted on this board. A lot may have gone on behind the scenes in private phone conversations. We're not seeing the whole picture.

I'm just trying to be objective. I really have no dog in this fight.

Sean Dempsey
September 25, 2008, 01:01 PM
This is all a ploy to reinstate the quote button.

Tennessee Ned
September 25, 2008, 01:01 PM
Yes, thank you all. I'm still kind of new here but I appreciate this site more than any other site and hope that any conflicts get resolved fairly and respectfully just as they should on The HighRoad.

Derek Zeanah
September 25, 2008, 01:04 PM
THR has been stolen and that's just all there is to it.And these are the sorts of comments that lead the discussion (and possibly the whole board) downhill.

You've heard a series of accusations that were made in order to solicit contributions for a lawsuit. You've seen me here trying to keep everyone on an even keel in the interest of minimizing damage to the board from all this. I don't know that you'll hear a whole lot more from me bringing out details -- my goal is the opposite of throwing more wood on the fire. I don't believe a big public discussion helps anyone.

Having said all that, 'Oleg Volk' was never on the domain name as far as I am aware.

It would really be a lot better for everyone if we could just calm down, take a couple of collective deep breaths, and wait a day or so to see how things play out. The primary goal of everyone involved should be the long-term health and success of THR.

Kestryll
September 25, 2008, 01:12 PM
What I've seen for YEARS is Oleg owning and running the site.

It would be a lot better if you would unlock Oleg's access to the server and the Admin powers on his account but there's no money in that is there?

Yeah, I'm sure this account will be frozen or deleted but hey, calling it what it is seems to be a rare commodity nowadays.

Wog
September 25, 2008, 01:14 PM
It would really be a lot better for everyone if we could just calm down, take a couple of collective deep breaths, and wait a day or so to see how things play out. The primary goal of everyone involved should be the long-term health and success of THR.

Says the guy holding the domain hostage from the founder of the site.

Riddle me this: How do you expect for THR to survive in its current form with so many people aware of the fact that the original owner and the moderators who supported him have been locked out?

harmonic
September 25, 2008, 01:24 PM
How do you expect for THR to survive in its current form with so many people aware of the fact that the original owner and the moderators who supported him have been locked out?

Do you think you could phrase that in any more emotionally charged way?

Other than a handful of people who apparantly were privy to the inner goings on around here, nobody knows who's right and who's not.

And if Derek does, in fact, establish legal ownership, it won't be a big deal. Human beings have a really short memory.

Kestryll
September 25, 2008, 01:31 PM
Do you think you could phrase that in any more emotionally charged way?
What is 'emotionally charged' about the truth?

Other than a handful of people who apparantly were privy to the inner goings on around here, nobody knows who's right and who's not.

And if Derek does, in fact, establish legal ownership, it won't be a big deal. Human beings have a really short memory.

Not always, the online firearms community has proven to have a long memory in the past.

rswartsell
September 25, 2008, 01:39 PM
Hmmm, seems to me someone wants to start generating revenue by ads and links a la AR-15 forum. Otherwise this is all semantics and a rather moot issue.

KaceCoyote
September 25, 2008, 01:39 PM
Derek, why dont YOU take the high road? This is Oleg's forum, not yours. You forcing it out from Oleg will only end badly for you, not Oleg.

harmonic
September 25, 2008, 01:41 PM
the online firearms community has proven to have a long memory in the past.


Sometimes. But THR is increasingly populated by newcomers. I see fewer and fewer old timers.

I'm not defending one way or the other, but regardless of the outcome, I don't think it will make much difference in the long run.

Andrew Wyatt
September 25, 2008, 01:44 PM
You'll all do oleg and derek and everyone involved a favor if you stay out of it, and stop rabble rousing. it's not your job to sort this situation out. it's their job and the job of the courts.

rswartsell
September 25, 2008, 01:46 PM
and if the revenue stream starts, what changes come with money? Even though WE provide the content that makes the site, will "sponsors" exert any influence? Will the "members" and posters become the chattel of a business operation? Well in one sense that's the American way, but I will be closely watching to see if THR becomes TPR (The Profit Road).

By the way, ordinary members assuming that we are informed enough and qualified to act as judge in this match REALLY looks silly. Like cheering for your favorite soap opera star.

odysseus
September 25, 2008, 01:47 PM
The community of members may not know too much, but thousands of members are concerned about what appears to be hostile takeover of a long standing, member driven forum.

I have seen this happen before when a money compensation or revenue issue becomes involved with forums, and it never goes well in the end. There may be issues of accounting and compensation due, but an outright take over doesn't play well in the court of opinion. Seems now it may even go to a real court of law for resolution.

Derek Zeanah
September 25, 2008, 01:50 PM
I hear accusations, but I don't see how they line up with the facts. I don't know who's "locked out." I don't understand why I'm "holding the domain hostage" -- nothing has changed with regard to the domain for years. There are no dollars on the table (though money was one of the key components of the current disagreement -- there was agreement as to ownership until large sums of money were on the table.)

Folks, there's lots of drama out there that I didn't start. I'm doing what I can to keep it from getting out of control, and having a discussion here seemed to be a reasonable way to go forward. I'm still open to the idea, but I really don't think this is something that can be determined by arguing about it here. Folks on Staff have the facts, and there's no consensus there, either.

We're still trying to work this out. Give it time. But remember that this is a fragile environment -- recent accusations have damaged things, and I'd personally like to seem them not damaged further.

But emotions must be held in check. Oleg wants a lawsuit, which will make for a multi-year resolution. I'd like to see it settled amicably, but I'm not having much success. But those are the two ways this will get done -- that or one of us just walk away (which I don't see happening). Either way, everyone needs to tread carefully or there won't be a THR when all is said and done.

This is still novel to most of you. Trust me, this is toxic stuff, and needs to be dealt with carefully.

rswartsell
September 25, 2008, 01:50 PM
odysseus,

You can at this point discern fact from allegation? I know I can't. I also know that whatever informed or uninformed opinion I have will simply be a guide to my own actions and not a final arbeiter. "It's a legal matter baby".

Kestryll
September 25, 2008, 01:51 PM
You'll all do oleg and derek and everyone involved a favor if you stay out of it, and stop rabble rousing. it's not your job to sort this situation out.

A forum is NOTHING without it's members, believe me I am very well acquainted with that fact.
I fully expect that if I do something foolish with my forum that the members will call me on it and be very vocal about it.
That's why it's a community and not just a bunch of people playing on a bulletin board.

Kestryll
September 25, 2008, 01:52 PM
This is still novel to most of you.

No, no it is not novel to many of us but thank you for that assumption.

Andrew Wyatt
September 25, 2008, 01:58 PM
You do what you want. i'm merely suggesting that being a drama queen about the situation isn't going to help anyone out.

KaceCoyote
September 25, 2008, 01:59 PM
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html

zxcvbob
September 25, 2008, 02:03 PM
Oleg is the founder of THR and thus presumed to be the original owner.
Derek has made a claim of ownership and taken "adverse possession" of the site. His claims are not totally without merit because he not only administors but also hosts the site, and we don't know what arrangements/compensation/understandings were made for this service.
Locking-out Oleg was not very wise, IMHO.
The courts are probably going to have to sort this out.


I tend to be more sympathetic to founders. I probably won't post much here anymore until this is settled.

Moderated forums always self-destruct eventually due to bad behaviour by the admins or moderators. I thought this was gonna be the exception. :(

sorensen440
September 25, 2008, 02:04 PM
This is and always has been olegs site and I am certain the courts will show the same
Derek with all due respect I suggest you try to end this peacefully before the courts are fully involved

AEA
September 25, 2008, 02:05 PM
I'm outta here........don't need this in my day!:mad:

Derek Zeanah
September 25, 2008, 02:09 PM
Folks, you're all welcome to your opinions, but picking sides and fighting isn't the kind of thing that THR needs right now.

For those who are convinced my position has no merit, please think of it this way: do you want THR to be a viable concern if/when Oleg takes control? If so, do you really think contention now leads toward that sort of future?

I think contention is bad for the board.

Edited to add...

The previous post made my mind up. Closing this one. I'd appreciate it if you could wait until tomorrow to open another one.

If you enjoyed reading about "Thanks to those that run the site" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!