converting my Glock 17 to fully auto


PDA






Dr_2_B
September 26, 2008, 05:40 PM
Hi. I entered a post several weeks ago about legally converting my G17 to a fully auto version. I got a lot of colorful responses about life in prison, but I missed the information I was really searching for. Let me explain my understanding of the laws and you can tell me where I'm wrong. Please, only those people who really know the answer.

I know it is legal to possess fully auto weapons with BATFE approval and tax stamps, etc. So why is it that G18 would not be legal to possess?

NOTE: Please do not offer information on any illegal activity.

If you enjoyed reading about "converting my Glock 17 to fully auto" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rantingredneck
September 26, 2008, 05:42 PM
The 1986 FOPA basically closed the NFA registry for new machine guns. You can purchase one that is transferrable (meaning already registered as an MG prior to the 86 law) but you cannot manufacture, import, or convert a new MG because you cannot register it per the 1934 NFA due to the 86 registry closure.

Are there any G18's currently in the registry? I do not know. If there are it won't be many of them and they'll likely be $$$$$.

nalioth
September 26, 2008, 06:00 PM
Rumor has it less than 5 are on the books.

They have been valued at $50,000 or more due to their being transferable rarities.

crebralfix
September 26, 2008, 06:14 PM
Nothing like good ole fashioned government created rarity!

trickyasafox
September 26, 2008, 06:28 PM
if you were an ffl02 (which I believe is the one for manufacturing firearms) I think you can produce and possess a post 1986 MG for demonstration purposes and for LEO / Military sales- Though I am not 100%. A quick call to the BATFE though would probably not hurt to get some hard information.

RyanM
September 26, 2008, 06:33 PM
Any, or at least most, SOT classification can possess (manufacturing or importing depends on specific classification) new MGs for the purpose of documented demonstration for LEO and military, but the gun must be destroyed, exported, sold, etc. afterwards. Something like that.

rcmodel
September 26, 2008, 06:34 PM
That would be how Colt & FN make M16's and machine-guns for the DOD.

I doubt they will allow you a manufactures license to convert a Glock though!

rcmodel

JImbothefiveth
September 26, 2008, 06:37 PM
Sorry, you're 22 years too late to convert it legally.

FIFTYGUY
September 26, 2008, 06:54 PM
matheath wrote:

I know it is legal to possess fully auto weapons with BATFE approval and tax stamps, etc. So why is it that G18 would not be legal to possess?

By this point in the thread you should know that you'll have to become a Class II Manufacturer to legally make your own Glock conversion.

So "Step One" is to jump through all the necessary hoops with BATFE. Don't forget you'll also have to do the ITAR registration as well ($2250 or so a year).

When you're done with all that, take a look at this patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,705,763.PN.&OS=PN/5,705,763&RS=PN/5,705,763

It hasn't expired yet. Also do some looking around, including the archives here on THR for all you'd ever need to know about various FA Glocks.

There are already enough C2's making full-auto Glocks to fill any conceivable need. BATFE frowns on C2's who don't actually sell what they make, so you'll have to justify to them eventually why you're in "business". Better think of a good product...

All NFA Rules Apply

Zoogster
September 26, 2008, 08:30 PM
You can also get extra scrutiny if you claim to be a business and do not make a taxable profit after obtaining all the licenses. That in itself is not illegal, but if they take notice it can make your life a real pain.

If you create a false business for the purpose of simply having the toys you want carious actions can be interpreted as fraud in various ways (even if it is not.)
A felony that would remove your right to own firearms anyways if convicted.

It could be considered a false statement, for your gain, victimizing the government through your conduct.

So unless you actualy plan to be business that makes a taxed profit, you probably don't want to pretend to be one just to get what you want. That is clearly a hobby.

Further what the business owns is not what you own, so once the business ceases to exist because of expiration/revocation of any license the post '86 firearms (or even pre '86 firearms not registered before '86) not civilian legal can no longer be possessed.
Even civilian legal firearms transfered to yourself if purchased as business expense in a business with little or no recorded profit if you write it off on taxes could get you investigated for fraud.

Creating a fake business you don't really plan to be a business is generaly not a great idea. Getting those licenses pretty much requires you to become a licensed business. If you choose to become a licensed business plan to be a legitimate one, not just a fun toy owner.

Before 1986 you could have filed the proper paperwork and done anything you wanted to, created whatever firearm you wanted, or built from scratch or converted any existing firearm. Since then we have very distinct classes of citizens. There is a little grey area for the suppliers of them, but otherwise you are not one of those permited classes.

FIFTYGUY
September 26, 2008, 09:45 PM
Well said, Zoogster!

I should have wrote: "Step One: Get a viable business plan".

Of course, the lack of same certainly hasn't deterred many C2's in the past...:p

Dr_2_B
September 27, 2008, 07:38 AM
Great answers... thanks for all the info. For my part, I fired a fully auto mp5 once. It wasn't really for me.

Aka Zero
September 27, 2008, 09:34 AM
just build "custom ar's" with auto triggers groups for leo, mil, as a business. build parts kits, with a different trigger, full auto....

And in your "spare time" make a house full of toys. I like the ruger 10/22 full autos... would be cheaper for the ffl, than buying any kind of transferable, so why not?

nalioth
September 27, 2008, 09:56 AM
And in your "spare time" make a house full of toys. Sounds nice, except you need a LEO/GOV letter of interest to build anything.

shotgun12321
September 27, 2008, 10:26 AM
Sounds like a good project, if/when you get it finished, post pics :D

crushbup
September 27, 2008, 11:06 AM
Sounds nice, except you need a LEO/GOV letter of interest to build anything.

If he pays the SOT as a manufacturer, he requires no letter. The demo letter is only needed if he is transferring to a dealer.
Of course, the BATFE claims to care only about intent, and even if he were to go start making M16s for police the intent behind it would be just so he can build a machinegun collection. This intent has been shown in the thread. IANAL, nor do I work for the BATFE, but when it comes to the Ringling Brothers, you don't really want to take chances.

(If it does turn out legal, then go for it. Free enterprise FTW)

Quiet
September 27, 2008, 01:34 PM
Don't forget the yearly fees you have to pay when dealing with post-86 NFA firearms.

Fees for being a manufacterer...

Type 07-FFL Class II SOT = $3300 per year ($150 every 3 years for FFL, $1000 per year for SOT, $2250 per year for ITAR)

Type 10-FFL Class II SOT = $4250 per year ($3000 every 3 years for FFL, $1000 per year for SOT, $2250 per year for ITAR)

If you enjoyed reading about "converting my Glock 17 to fully auto" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!