[psyprofessor]

Guys...I need your expert advice.. I am about to cross over to the enlightened side and start carrying. Can you help me choose from the four:

Beretta Tomcat .32
Guardian .32
Kel Teck .380
Ruger LCP .380

I realize that I am comparing apples and oranges in terms of ammo size... (but those are the 4 types that seem to fit my front pocket well)

What I am concerned about is absolute reliability of going "bang" each time I pull the trigger.

Could you give me your opinion of first and second most reliable out of the four guns above.

Thanks.

[MedWheeler]

Ruger if you've got the cash... Kel-Tec if you don't.. The NAA .32 is supposed to be pretty reliable, too, but, since the .380s are virtually as stowable, I'd go with one of them. Consider the Bersa .380 CC also, if you haven't already (it's a tad smaller than the Thunder.)

[.38 Special]

A) Guns are individuals. You can get a gun from a maker with the "most reliable ever!" reputation that won't work at all. And you may get a gun from a poorly regarded maker that is dead nuts reliable.

B) It is probably true that some makers put out more reliable guns, on average, than other makers, but your question is going to elicit nothing but opinion, most of it worth what it cost you. The only way to truly know which makes are more reliable than others is to obtain a statistically valid sample (I think you need a minimum of 70, if I'm remembering my statistics instructor correctly) of each and compare them in identical circumstances. Only the military trials, using a very few brands, even come close to this standard.

Short version: buy what you like and then shoot it, a lot, with the defense ammo you intend to use. If it's reliable -- and it almost certainly will be -- then be happy. If it's not, send it back, and the manufacturer will make it right.

[texfed]

I've had great luck with my KelTec .380.
Brand new:
1) I polished the feed ramp and the slide rails ever so slightly....then took it to the range!
2) used 100 rounds of wolf elcheapo hollow point, steel case and 100 rounds of Walmart Remington bulk pack hollow point!
3) at 20 yards both performed the same and was able to completely remove the entire nose area of a 'bad guy' picture target ...off head holes:none, only drawback was my hand got tired after 200 rounds from such a tiny gun at one time! I had 6 mags handy! On a little shooter, often as not the mags are a problem, so make sure all your mags function flawlessly....even new ones!
I recommend it for function, accuracy and price. In a him or me situation.....I've got no qualms relying on this little shooter!:)

[Jim K]

My rule for a carry gun is that it must fire at least 200 rounds (with the carry magazine if an auto pistol) without a faiure of any kind. If you have a failure and think it is fixed or you know what caused it, start over.

That may get expensive these days, but presumably your life is worth more.

Jim

[jonnyc]

Kel-Tec, whether you've got the cash or not. Just as reliable as the others, if not more so, but also lighter and cheaper. I prefer the P32 myself.

[PRM]

I have loved mine - had it for about 4 years now. Never has failed to fire and functions flawlessly with all types of ammo. I looked at the NAA .380, but it was a lot bulkier for my needs. The .32 carries well in a nylon pocket holster (Uncle Mikes) and barley shows an outline in the pocket.

[critter]

I have a Guardian .32 that I bought used. It had a problem of dropping the magazine when fired and therefore would not pick up the next round to chamber. I sent it back to NAA, telling them that I had bought it used. They told me it was an 'old model', repaired it by replacing the mag release spring AND over $200 worth of other parts and charged me not one penny! SO, if the NAA's are not reliable, they WILL back them up and make them right.

[TimboKhan]

All of those guns are reliable, but the thing to remember is that it is typically the ammo that is unreliable, not the gun.

Of course, there are occasionally gun issues and magazine issues. But assuming you have broken the gun in (if it needed it) and know the magazines work, any issues with unreliability (not going bang) are far more likely to be related to faulty ammo than a mechanical issue with the gun.

[PRM]

but the thing to remember is that it is typically the ammo that is unreliable,Timbokhan

Curious as to your statement. I only shoot factory ammo and I have yet to have a Hydra -Shock, Remington or Fiochhi round not fire. I have had the occasional high primer or hard primer in some of my other calibres and admit I may have been extremely fortunate with my .32(s) considering the number of rounds I have put through them. But the factory ammo in this calibre for me has been on par with any other calibre I have shot.

[Realbigo]

i don't know anything about the ruger, but I'd choose the Kel-Tec from your list. If you are really worried about it not going bang for some reason, maybe a 2in .38 would be a better choice for you.

[Mountie855]

Our KelTecs, a P11 (and earlier P11's, plus P32's trade for the P3AT's) have been reliable from the start. Not target guns, and especially the P3AT's are hampered by miniscule sights, but they suffice for the intended purpose.

Haven't owned the Ruger 380 yet, but no doubt they are a good value also, if they follow the Ruger tradition!

[psyprofessor]

So far...it sounds like it is going to be between Kel Tec P32 vs. Guardian .32

Anyone out there have opinions between these two?

[PRM]

Decisions :banghead: Decisions :banghead: Decisions :banghead:

Why not buy both - some days you might feel like Stainless - other days polymer.

Since you will probably be using a pocket holster - why not check out which one feels the best in your pocket. Go to a gun store and compare both. You are most likely making a life time purchase, so any cost difference will be negligible over the time you own it. Happy Shooting:)

[mnrivrat]

I have experience with the Kel-Tec .380 and from that vote of 1 unit, I can say mine was reliable. The Ruger is an almost carbon copy, and of the ones sold out of our local shop, only one has come back so far for problems. I suspect they are at least as reliable as the Kel-Tec and maybe even more so, but the history is short so far.

Personal choice, but I would consider the .380 for carry over the .32 auto even though I am not going to bash any caliber . My brothers Kel-Tec in .32 Auto has been very reliable for him also.

Another one to possibly look at is the Kel-Tec PF-9 which isn't much bigger than the ones you list, should carry in the front pants pocket easily (that's where I carry my handgun) and has the advantage of 9mm power level if ever needed.

At any rate - my rating for number one and two are the Kel-Tec P3-AT or the Ruger LCP on a equal basis if choice is from your list.

[Ala Dan]

My friend .38 Special has nailed it; as any manufactuer can (and
will, by accident) make a lemon at various times~! :scrutiny: :eek: :uhoh:

[TimboKhan]

I only shoot factory ammo and I have yet to have a Hydra -Shock, Remington or Fiochhi round not fire. I have had the occasional high primer or hard primer in some of my other calibres and admit I may have been extremely fortunate with my .32(s) considering the number of rounds I have put through them. But the factory ammo in this calibre for me has been on par with any other calibre I have shot.

Let me re-state it this way: It is far more likely that you will run into a faulty round than a mechanical issue. I didn't mean to imply that factory ammo fails all the time, but over the years I have had far FTF due to ammo than I have mechanical issues, and I bet you have had the same experience.

[PRM]

I didn't mean to imply that factory ammo fails all the time, but over the years I have had far FTF due to ammo than I have mechanical issues, and I bet you have had the same experience.Timbokhan


Agree - original post had me thinking, you've had terrible luck with factory ammo. Most failure to fires are ammo and not a firearm breakage or malfunction.

[Ala Dan]

Well, I own a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 Auto, and a Seecamp LWS-32 auto.
Thus far, both have been extremely relialbe. I tote the P3AT .380 as
a BUG daily; so YES, I trust it~! :scrutiny: ;)

[orionengnr]

1. All four are in the same size (if not weight) range.
2. There is no way I would carry a .32 when a .380 is available in the same size/price range. I have owned and fired the P-32 and the P3AT back-to- back, and judging from the recoil, the .380 is significantly more powerful.
3. I've owned four K-Ts and sold them all. None was reliable enough to carry, even after F&B, parts replacement, etc.
4. I recently got my LCP and it has been night and day compared to the K-Ts.

As stated, each individual gun is a luck-of-the-draw. However, my experience with K-Ts seems mirror a lot like some other people's. I won't be going down that road again.

[Loomis]

There are too many variables. Ammo and magazines are the usual culprits when a gun is unreliable. Sometimes changing these things is all that is required to make an unreliable gun reliable. Sometimes springs need to be replaced. Sometimes key parts need to be polished. Sometimes there's just no hope.

Basically, if you really want top reliability without all these variables to worry about, go with a revolver. Short of that, go with the brand with the most spotless reputation. Out of your list, that will probably be Beretta.

[.380awsome]

well ok ya these are small and hold 6 or 7 rounds but almost every gun u have named ive heard problems from,may i suggest a revolver,yes autos are cool and thats what everyone uses these days,but a revolver will keep working and is as good or better than these glocks ,ok so they dont hold quite as much ammo,statisticly speeking most gunfights end in 3 shots,a average .38 revolver holds 5-6 rounds of ammo and if you feel you dont have enough ammo after that buy a .357 magnum.consider this perhaps?

[jackstinson]

I seriously considered a Tomcat (my 21A and old 950B are 100% reliable), but it is too thick for my tastes. The Tomcat has a reputation for cracking frames. Seems the "thick" INOX version is good though.
The NAA Guardian is nice, but pricey and heavier than a Kel-Tec.
I've owned/carried both a Kel-Tec P3AT and P32. The P3AT has a snappy recoil which makes it seem more potent than it is. Look at the ballistics of both from the short barrel, don't judge power by felt recoil. Kel-Tecs are proven pocket guns, both of mine have been 100% reliable out of the box with the ammo I chose for them (Rem .380 and S&B .32acp). My P3AT is a newer 2nd generation model, my P32 is an ancient 1st gen from around their third month of production years ago.
I've never felt the need to buy an LCP, since K-T's are so reliable. The LCP looks nice, I don't carry for looks.
NOTE: Pocket semi-autos in general are by nature more fussy than larger guns. They are more subject to the effects limp-wristing, varying ammo, shooter quirks, etc. The nature of the lil' beastie. Pick the one which suits your personal tastes, find the ammo that gun likes, prove it out for yourself, and enjoy.

[SwampWolf]

How about a Seecamp? (somebody had to ask!). :evil::evil::evil:

[jjohnson]

I know, I hate to offer an answer when it wasn't part of the question, Psy, but if I had to decide on a 32 or 380 to carry, I'd carry a Mak in 380 - and I do. It's very reliable - the Russians wouldn't have kept it so long if it weren't. I have Kel-tec also, but carry the Mak - because the Kel-tec has failed me before, the Mak hasn't.

After the Kel-tec BROKE the slide stop, rendering it hors du combat, I put a few thousand rounds through the Mak just to make sure. No failures that couldn't be attributed to reloaded ammo....

[makarovnik]

Kel-Tec. It's been out longer and in the greatest numbers of the bunch. The hard chrome models seem to be the best. Not sure if they get more finishing care at the factory or what.

[flyby]

Which is more reliable?
easy..the Keltec P32 ;) ..also has a 'Real' automatic last round slide lock :)
..and with the +1 ext. packs 9rds!

[IMTHDUKE]

Go at least 380 and forget the 32....You're not going to save much on size to go up to a 380.

Colt Mustang Pocketlite goin run you more $, but if it's your carry gun, I would not skimp on dependability.

http://photos.gafana.com/photos/1156252650996589941342.share.jpg

If you're set on those you named...go with the Keltec

[flyby]

Kel-Tec. It's been out longer and in the greatest numbers of the bunch. The hard chrome models seem to be the best. Not sure if they get more finishing care at the factory or what. I think its do to the natural lubricate properties hard chrome has ..HC=less friction by default :)

[Andrew Wyatt]

why do you need a little gun like that? guns that small are really too small to shoot well, and they're anemic, which is a bad combo.

at least step up to the midsize kahrs or the little glocks. those are at least passably shootable.

[flyby]

^Anemic yes,
But all the guns mentioned on this thread can be shot well out to 7-10yds..With a little practice ..which is far more than they'll probably ever needed for :) and nothing carries easier than most of these guns..when deep cover is required.

..rest assured tiny ultralite pocketguns will never replace my service caliber weapons ..or prolly that of anyone else :)

[sevin8nin]

Kel-tec does not manufacture firearms as their primary business. They make guns when they get the time to do so.
The ruger LCP is about the nicest small .380 you can get and it has a lifetime warranty whereas the kel-tec has an expiration date.
I know you probably won't shoot it alot, but I've seen quite a few kel-tecs come back with broken frames after just a few thousand rounds or so.

I wouldn't even bother with the 32. I know that "a .32 in on you is better than the .45 you leave at home" but I have to draw the line on viable defensive calibers somewhere, and for me, the .32 is a comical little bullet with poor ballistics.

Get the ruger LCP. Unless someone has a kel-tec on their shelf, you'll have a hard time finding one right now.

[Lonestar49]

...

IIRC, Beretta Tomcats have a frame cracking problem, be them NIB/low round count or used, and IIRC, this is another item that BUSA is "real slow" on resolving/fixing or replacing. Personally, if this is the gun I'm thinking of, I wouldn't go there.. OMMV

Others of mention, from what I have read, have good reputations IIRC.


Ls

[SwampWolf]

The ruger LCP is about the nicest small .380 you can get and it has a lifetime warranty

Where did you see this? It's been my experience that Ruger takes care of its customers but I've never seen them promise a "lifetime warranty".