'70's pistol shooting question?

[Realbigo]

So "Magnum Force" is on AMC, and they just finished the scene where Harry and the other cops shoot in the Combat Championships. The target used was a man sized silhouette, w/ a circle in the stomach area. I know that there are a lot of other firearm errors in the movie, but My question is was this a common target then? I was barely walking and talking when the movie was made, so I have no clue.

[harmonic]

I don't remember what they used in the movie. Was it like any of these?

http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/silhouette/

[Realbigo]

it was this shape
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/WillOyster/B21E.gif
But it was only an outline, and a circle inside the silhouette whose bottom was about where the inner line is here, and about a foot high.
It made me wonder if they used to teach shooting for the gut.

[loneviking]

Some instructors would teach shooting for the gut--especially in the late 1800's to early 1900's, as a gut shot is very painful and without modern antibiotics would usually result in death from peritonitis.

The target used is what I grew up shooting at and knew as a 'ladder' target. Start at the gut (bottom of that big, lopsided circle) and using the recoil of the gun 'walk' the rounds up the target. If I remember correctly, Gabe Suarez of Suarez International still teaches the ladder.

[Jim Watson]

The B21 target has an X ring about at the solar plexus of the humanoid figure. I don't know of one with a very low ring as you describe.

Do not get your firearms expertise from the movies.

[CWL]

Some instructors would teach shooting for the gut--especially in the late 1800's to early 1900's, as a gut shot is very painful and without modern antibiotics would usually result in death from peritonitis.

This was during blackpowder days when troops lined-up against each other and fired in volleys. Troops had a tendency to aim too high and shoot over the heads of their enemies. As a solution, line sargents trained their soldiers to aim for the belt buckle. This had a better chance for a COM shot.

Peritonitus wasn't the goal (since almost any wound would make you dead in the days before antibiotics), it was just so you'd hit your target.

[Realbigo]

I was just curious about a bit of history, or trivia, as the case may be. I don't get my training from movies. To the others, thank you for the info.

[planetmobius]

The only Dirty Harry movie where the good guys lost.

[capttom]

Planetmobius said: The only Dirty Harry movie where the good guys lost.

Man, that's a low blow! Love your screen handle, though. That was one great movie.

[Vern Humphrey]

Some instructors would teach shooting for the gut--especially in the late 1800's to early 1900's, as a gut shot is very painful and without modern antibiotics would usually result in death from peritonitis.
But it is not immediately painful (any more than a GSW anywhere else) and it takes about three days to kill. The person will die of infection, not from the actual shooting.

[cacop]

I remember seeing an SFPD training film from the 40's or so in my academy (San Mateo just south of SF) where they were shooting at those same targets. The narrator said shooting in the stomach was to take suspects alive. They also showed some baton moves that would get you fired now.

[Kosh75287]

I don't know much that was NOT wrong from a technical standpoint with all the Dirty Harry movies, but as shooters we know better. As non-shooters, the media doesn't, and takes all of it as gospel, especially if any of it serves as something with which to demonize gun owners.
This tendency toward technical flaws tends to fit right in with the times, since I recall very little about the 70s that was actually RIGHT. Interest rates and unemployment were sky high, a president resigned under cloud of scandal, a southeast asian country we were supposed to help fell to communism, a whole bunch of american nationals took up residence for 444 days in an embassy in Tehran as "guests" of the Ayatollah, oil embargos, cyanide-laced Extra strength Tylenol, and as though all of this isn't bad enough, DISCO was POPULAR! Close the lid on THIS coffin, let's let the 70's rest in peace!

[loneviking]

But it is not immediately painful (any more than a GSW anywhere else) and it takes about three days to kill. The person will die of infection, not from the actual shooting.

Correct---but I can tell you from personal experience that peritonitis is extremely painful, debilitating and a lousy way to die.

[Khyron]

Ahh the 70's, when the Browning HP was king of the 9mm world. Probably the only good thing :neener:

[krs]

Correct---but I can tell you from personal experience that peritonitis is extremely painful, debilitating and a lousy way to die.

Thanks! are you buried in Carson City, and who do you use for a seer?

[JMACDONALD]

Like So?

[Realbigo]

No thats not what the target looked like. But that is wierd that its different on the poster.

[Jenrick]

Shoot if you can find a picture (sorry my google-fu is weak) of the French Police Training targets, the "COM" box is about gut level. The stated reason is so the suspect doesn't die.

-Jenrick

[Archie]

You might be thinking of the target I've attached. It is the PPC or "Police Pistol Combat" target. It's essentially the (old) International Rapid Fire target scoring rings superimposed on a silhouette and it was designed as a competition target, not as a realistic training device.

It's still used in PPC shooting. Along with revolvers, it's sort of an antique match these days.

The second target has the 'circle' but it's not quite in the stomach, more in the high chest. It is the Colt target and has always struck me as a fairly good training target. But it's very politically incorrect these days - and also looks like something from a 1930s movie.