Last men that survived the Civil War


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scrat
September 27, 2008, 09:58 PM
To think that the guns we purchase and try to master. These two men were the last two men alive who used them against each other in the great war between the states. Im sure a lot of us think of how these men actually fired these weapons with some of the problems we encounter. Yet to them it was a matter of staying alive. Without further delay the last known Union Army Soldier to have lived was Albert Henry Woolson http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/180px-Woolson_01.jpg

(February 11, 1850? Ė August 2, 1956), was the last surviving member of the Union Army, which fought in the American Civil War. He was also the last surviving Civil War veteran on either side whose status is currently undisputed. (At least three men who followed him in death claimed to be Confederate veterans, but their status as Civil War veterans is in dispute.)

Woolson was born in Antwerp, New York. His father, Willard Woolson, enlisted in the Union Army. Willard was wounded at the Battle of Shiloh and was transported to an Army hospital in Windom, Minnesota, where he eventually died of his wounds. Albert and his mother moved to Windom to accompany Willard. Albert enlisted as a drummer boy in Company C, 1st Minnesota Heavy Artillery Regiment on October 10, 1864, becoming the company's drummer. The company never saw action, and Albert Woolson was discharged on September 7, 1865.

Woolson returned to Minnesota, where he lived the rest of his life. He was a carpenter and later a member of the Grand Army of the Republic, a powerful political organization made up of Civil War veterans where he became senior vice commander in chief in 1953.

In his final days, he lived at 215 East Fifth Street in Duluth. Woolson died at St. Luke's Hospital in Duluth, Minnesota on August 2, 1956, at what was thought to be the age of 109, of a "recurring lung congestion condition." Woolson was buried with full military honors by National Guard Armory and is buried at Park Hill cemetery. Following his death, then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said, "The American people have lost the last personal link with the Union Army ... His passing brings sorrow to the hearts of all of us who cherished the memory of the brave men on both sides of the War Between the States."

Life magazine ran a 7-page article upon the death of Albert Woolson, in the August 20, 1956 issue. [1]The article includes much information about the G.A.R., with pictures or drawings of several encampments (conventions). Also included are photos of the last three living confederate soldiers (evidently disputed): William Lundy, 108; Walter Williams, 113; and John Salling, 110.

In mid-2006, new census research indicated that Albert Woolson was actually only 106 years old, being listed as less than 1 year old in the 1850 census. Previous research in 1991 has suggested he was younger than claimed, although this does not affect his veteran status

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scrat
September 27, 2008, 10:02 PM
PLEASANT RIGGS CRUMP - LAST CONFEDERATE SOLDIER
This is the story about Alabama's last surviving Confederate Soldier.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/importD1.jpg

Every bit of it is true. It is amazing that he was also the last surviving Soldier of either side that witnessed the surrender of General Robert E. Lee's Confederate Army of Northern Virginia at Appomattox Courthouse, Virginia on April 9th, 1865. He died over 86 and a half years after seeing that sad event!


THE END OF AN ERA - LAST CONFEDERATE SOLDIER
Tucked in the uppermost tip of Talladega County not far from the Calhoun County line in east central Alabama, is a small country cemetery sitting across a road from a white frame church. As you come to this site, you notice that the name of the church is denoted on a sign as Refuge Baptist Church and that the cemetery has a sign naming it the Hall Cemetery. It appears to be just another country landmark, undistinguished from numerous others that are seen across this region, until you go through the cemetery's gates.

Going through the main gate of the cemetery, straight ahead and almost in front of you, lies a remarkable discovery, especially for students of Confederate history. It is the last resting place for the remains of Pleasant R. "Riggs" Crump, the last surviving Confederate soldier in the State of Alabama and the last surviving soldier to witness the surrender of General Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia at Appomattox Courthouse, Virginia on April 9th, 1865.

Pleasant was born in an area of St. Clair County, Alabama known as Crawford's Cove, which is located near the county seat of Ashville. He grew up in that area and when he was 16 years of age he joined the Confederate Army. He and a friend jouneyed to Petersburg, Virginia, where he joined the Confederate service as a private in Company A, 10th Alabama Infantry Regiment. This was in 1864. His first battle was Hatcher's Run, and after this battle he participated in the fights at Petersburg until the end of the War at Appomattox Courthouse. He received his honorable discharge from General Robert E. Lee. When interviewed eighty five years later, "Colonel" (a honorable title bestowed on him by the United Confederate Veterans) Crump could still recall that he stood just across the road from the McLean House as the Army of Northern Virginia stacked it's arms for one final time. He walked most of the way back to Alabama, sometimes being fortunate enough to get a ride on a wagon or a cart. He returned to St. Clair County and to the life of a farmer, an occupation that he practiced all of his life.

"Riggs" (as he was known by family and friends) soon moved to an area above Lincoln in Talladega County, where he married Mary E. Hall at the age of 22. They had five children and were married 30 years before she died in 1902. He would die on the same date a full 49 years later. In 1905 he married Ella Wallis of Childersburg, Alabama, and was wed to her until her death 36 years later in 1942. Pleasant then shared his home with his grandson, Oliver Lee, and his family until his death nearly ten years later. He built the house himself and lived in it for 78 years. Unfortunately, the house was torn down in the 1960's.

Pleasant was a religious man. It is said that he read the Bible completely seven full times and that he could quote numerous passages. His favorite scripture was St. John, Chapter 14, "Let not your heart be troubled...". He was a deacon at his church (Refuge Baptist) for over 70 years.





His grave is marked with three stones, which read:

Col. P.R. "Riggs" Crump

Dec. 23, 1847-Dec. 31, 1951

Deacon Refuge Baptist Church 71 years

(this is a headstone with a place for a inlaid rectangular picture that is missing);

The second reads, Last Living Confederate Soldier

Last Living Soldier that Witnessed The Surrender at Appomattox, Va.;

and the third, Pleasant R. Crump

Pvt. Co. A, 10th Alabama Infantry

Confederate States Army

Dec. 23, 1847 Dec. 31, 1951

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/13397843_114045276674.jpghttp://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/13397843_114047795896.jpg

scrat
September 27, 2008, 10:17 PM
Gettysburg 75th Anniversary Video a must see for everyone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgLUmiRLqW8&feature=related

Cosmoline
September 27, 2008, 10:20 PM
Good to remember this.

scrat
September 27, 2008, 10:36 PM
Did you see the video. I had no idea a video existed on that. to see these guys that must have been done somewhere in the 1930's. Wow i guess we are lucky we have that.

pohill
September 27, 2008, 11:18 PM
Hey Scrat, thanks for that info, especially the link to the video.
I've been researching the life of a local Union soldier who died in 1928.

scrat
September 27, 2008, 11:23 PM
I was able to dig up an email address of Anne Woolson Campbell. The great grand daughter of Albert Woolson. I found a post from 2005. I am hoping the email is still good as she stated she had pictures and a lot of information in regards to her Great Grandfather. If she emails me back im going to see if i can get as much information as i can. Sad part is there is only 1 picture of Albert Woolson public. i imagine its going to be pretty hard to get some pictures of Pleasant Riggs Crump. Going to try though

Voodoochile
September 28, 2008, 12:01 AM
Very interesting information Scrat, thank you for sharing, & had never seen that video of the 75th anniversary.

Spot77
September 28, 2008, 12:29 AM
From June, 2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3765811.stm

Wow.

scrat
September 28, 2008, 12:35 AM
amazing good find spot77

4v50 Gary
September 28, 2008, 05:11 PM
Thank you scrat and spot77

Elbert P . Suggins
September 29, 2008, 01:28 AM
I've always liked topics on the Civil War. My wife and I drove to New York in 2000 and the CW was on my mind the whole trip. We visited Shiloh, Antietam, and lastly Gettysburg. What a place! I want to go back. My Great grandfather John W. Webb came from Bronaugh, Missouri in 1898 to Central Idaho to homestead newly opened Reservation land. He was a Confederate veteran and fought at many battles with Shelby's brigade including Wilson' Creek, Prairie Grove, and Pea Ridge where he got his thumb shot off. He and his wife told my Grandfather Tom about the boys stopping by for milk and cookies a few times while he was growing up and Grandpa did remember an instance or two of young men stopping at the Bronaugh farm while passing thru. Those boys happened to be Cole Younger and Frank James. People in that area looked on them as good folk before the killing really started and people changed their attitude toward them. Even up until the time of Northfield, Minnesota local folk thought quite highly of them clear until they were imprisoned and Jesse was killed. Anyway John W. died Christmas day 1915 in the first house built in Reubens Idaho. And is buried at Gifford Idaho. And Grandad Tom and my father Buford are buried at Reubens. I know this is all personal information that might not interest everyone but I just felt like sharing it with those that have like interests as I do. Type in Bronaugh, Missouri on a search and scroll down to the families. We also visited this community on our eastern trip and it brought tears to my eyes to go back and see where my family came from and meet others who stayed.

scrat
September 29, 2008, 04:36 AM
Elbert P Suggins that is some good information. Thanks for sharing i enjoyed reading about it for sure. Its great to hear that you know all about your families past. Outstanding.

scrat
September 29, 2008, 04:58 AM
Thank you scrat and spot77

Gary did you see the video i posted. I bet that is the only video in existance of all those men together. Its an amazing video

scrat
September 30, 2008, 12:04 AM
here is another link to more footage of civil war voice recording done in 1947

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4600415

Elbert P . Suggins
September 30, 2008, 09:51 AM
Scrat, if you ever get a chance, if you haven't already, visit Gettysburg and plan on 3 days. October is the best time because the tourist season is slow and the fall colors are the best. Go out early in the morning at day break to Devils Den and walk among the rocks. If it is foggy you will notice some very strange things. Many people have heard the voices and viewed others who are already there. Thousands were killed on this hallowed ground, so consider all you see and hear as not all your imagination. Take the walk up to Little Round Top and view the whole battlefied including the Wheat Field and Cemetary Ridge. Look to the west and view Seminary Ridge where Lee commanded his troops led by General Picket and others to walk up to the top of the ridge line where the High Water Mark and the Angle awaited them only to be mowed down with canister, exploding shells, and minnie balls. Walk among the grave stones at the cemetary and see the markers damaged during that 3rd day. And lastly, down the hill aways, see where Lincoln spoke his forever famous and never forgotten words. That whole trip to the town and area left me with memories that I will cherish forever.

tiger rag
September 30, 2008, 11:21 PM
Very nice clip Scrat, History is my thing . I am scv suv (sob) and Mayflower society.

scrat
October 1, 2008, 12:08 AM
Elbert i havent been there but for sure i want to go.

B00SS
October 1, 2008, 04:49 PM
I suppose you yanks may have a problem with the last survivor being a Confederate but that's to bad. We Southerners know who the last surivivor was. I know you will probably say that the folks in Itwamba County are wrong. Those people in Mississippi are wrong. The people in Texas and Florida, being a Southen states couldn't possibly be right either. Even your own yankee brothers in Nebraska are wrong. Assistant Secretary of the Army Hugh M. Milton, III well what does he know? If census reports for Walter Williams could be wrong, they could be just as wrong for Albert Woolson. I mean fair is fair. Even Dwight Eisenhower declared a time of mourning after Williams' death. Oh that's right, he was a Texan too. He can't be believed. None the less, I a mere Southerner present the story of Walter Washington Williams, the oldest surviving soldier of the War Between the States:


Walter W. Williams was born in Itawamba County, Mississippi on November 14, 1842. He was the son of George Washington Williams and Nancy Marcus Williams. The family moved to Texas in 1870 and settled in the small rural community of Murphriesborough in Brazos County.

When Walter was just a young boy, he joined the Confederate States Army (CSA). He served as a Forage Master with Company C, 5th Regiment, Hood's Brigade. His duty was to find food to feed his outfit.

Walter W. Williams married twice in his life. With his first wife, Florence Humphries Williams, he had 7 children. After her death he married Ella Holiday. He and Ella moved to Robertson County, in the Shiloh community, and together they had 12 children. "Uncle Walt" as he was affectionately called, lived to be 117 years old. He was the last surviving soldier of the Confederacy. It was only after he turned 100 years old that he began attracting national attention as one of the few remaining Civil War veterans.

When he was 100 years old he took his first plane ride. Afterwards he told his daughter, Mrs. Carrie Williams James, that cars were now too slow for him. He rode his first horse at the age of 103, and shot his first deer when he was 107 years old. He was 105 years old when he entered the hospital for the first time in his life. He couldn't understand why he was being fussed and fretted over, telling the staff, "I've got no time to go to the hospital, I'm too darn busy." He told them he wanted to be home reading the huge stacks of mail he'd received during his illness.

He received many honors in his later years. He was made an Admiral in the Nebraska "Navy". A group called the "Confederate High Command" of St. Petersburg, Florida, made him a 5-star General, an unknown rank in the Civil War. At the age of 106 years old, he received papers from Washington, DC making him an Honorary Colonel in the U.S. Army, for the distinction of being one of the oldest living Civil War veterans. When he was 107 years old, he went to the courthouse in Franklin, Texas to receive a documental seal from Governor Allan Shivers. The papers proclaimed him an Honorary Colonel of the Governor's staff. He was able to read these papers without the aid of glasses. When he was 112 years old he danced on a television program. At the age of 113, he was presented a special Civil War medal by Assistant Secretary of the Army Hugh M. Milton, III. In 1956, at the age of 114 years old, he received the Congressional Gold Medal. In April of 1956, at the age of 116 years old, President Eisenhower appointed Mr. Williams an honorary member of the Civil War Centennial Commission.

Walter W. Williams was a man who never grew old. He'd often reply, "I'll be around when you're dead and gone." He'd often say, "I'm just sticking around to see what will happen." Each year his family would hold a reunion at his home to celebrate his birthday. On his last birthday, at 117 years old, an American Legion band serenaded him with songs of Dixie, Casey Jones, and Waiting for Robert E. Lee. The old Colonel requested loud music, lots of people, and pork ribs for his birthday. He received several stacks of mail, and many congratulatory telegrams from admirers. He also received flowers from his admirers. One such display of flowers was from the florists of Houston Texas, they had sent him an arrangement with 117 roses. A 5-tier birthday cake topped with 2 Confederate flags, and a picture of Colonel Williams in uniform, was presented by Houston television station KPRC.

This was his last birthday, and he was mourned by people all over. Houston and Texas were proud to claim him as their own. The last survivor had gone to join his comrades-in-arms. Williams was a rare distinction, symbolic of a bygone era.

sundance44s
October 1, 2008, 05:55 PM
I figured it had to be a Confederate , it`s the food is so much better down South ...he just couldn`t leave it ...bet he ate grits & gravy every morning .

scrat
October 2, 2008, 01:28 PM
Now before reading i did not post this to be a battle of who lived longer rather to salute the last two who fought and lived through the civil war. If as a nation we can not prove that some men indeed fought in the civil war then its hard to pay tribute. I am not for the north or for the south but in the history of it. The documented history on what we have. So with out further delay

The last surviving veteran of any particular war, upon his or her death, marks the end of a historic era. Exactly who is the last surviving veteran is often an issue of contention, especially with records from long-ago wars. The "last man standing" was often very young at the time of enlistment and in many cases had lied about his age to gain entry into the service, which confuses matters further.

There were sometimes incentives for men to lie about their ages after their military service ended. In addition, there were some impostors who claimed to have served but did not (such as Walter Williams, who claimed to be 117 in 1959). For example, many former Confederate States in the South gave pensions to Confederate veterans of the American Civil War. Several men falsified their ages in order to qualify for these pensions, especially during the Great Depression; this makes the question of the identity of the last Confederate veteran especially problematic. The status of the officially recognized "last Confederate veteran" is in dispute.

Confederate
Candidates include:

Pleasant Crump (December 23, 1847-December 31, 1951) of Alabama (verifiable)
Felix M. Witkoski (c.January 5, 1850-February 3, 1952) of California
Thomas Edwin Ross (c.July 19, 1850-March 27, 1952) of California
William Loudermilk (c.October 23, 1848-September 18, 1952) of Arkansas
William Jordan Bush (c.July 10, 1845-November 11, 1952) of Georgia
Arnold Murray (soldier) (c.June 10, 1846-November 26, 1952) of South Carolina
William Townsend (c.April 12, 1846-February 22, 1953) of Louisiana
William Albert Kiney (February 10, claimed 1843, census suggests 1861-June 23, 1953) of Indiana
Richard William Cumpston (May 23, 1841-September 5, 1952), of Virginia
Thomas Riddle (soldier) (c.April 16, 1846-April 2, 1954) of Tennessee
William Lundy (January 18, 1848?-September 1, 1957) of Alabama/Florida
John B. Salling (May 15, 1846?-March 16, 1959) of Virginia
Walter Williams (November 14, 1842?-December 19, 1959) of Mississippi/Texas (debunked)
Most cases are questionable, though it should be remembered that many Confederate records were destroyed or lost to history. Unlike the U.S. military archives, the Confederate records had no official archive system after the war. However, for most of the cases investigated, the ages of the claimants alone were enough to prove their claim was false.

Walter Williams was generally acknowledged as the "last Confederate veteran" in 1950s newspapers. However, in 1959 an exposť by The New York Times revealed that he was in fact born in 1854 in Itawamba County, Mississippi, and not 1842 as claimed. Still, since John Salling and all the other "last claimants" were dead, Walter Williams was mythically celebrated as the "last Confederate veteran" in December 1959 and January 1960. Even the president joined in.

Salling's own status is disputed. In 1991, William Marvel examined the claims of Salling and several other "last Civil War veterans" for a piece in the Civil War history magazine Blue & Gray. Marvel found census data that indicated Salling was born in 1858, not 1846. In the same piece, Marvel confirmed Woolson's claim to be the last surviving Union veteran and asserted that Woolson was the last genuine Civil War veteran on either side. However, Marvel did not present research establishing who, among the several other Confederate claims from the 1950s, some of which appear to be genuine, was the real last Confederate veteran.

Although in 1900 Salling supplied a birthdate of March 1858, he appears to have been born around 1856, still too late to have served in the Confederate Army. The 1860 census lists him as four years old, and the 1870 census as fourteen.[citation needed]

William J. Bush is listed as born July 1846 in the 1900 census, and aged 65 in the April 1910 census (suggesting a birthdate of 1844). This suggests that he was at least 106 and did not add years to his age because of a pension-fraud motivation. The Civil War Soldiers and Sailors system lists two persons named William J. Bush, one of which served as a Private, Co B, in the 14th Georgia Infantry, and the other one as a Private, Co D, in the 66th Georgia Infantry.[citation needed]

sundance44s
October 2, 2008, 01:52 PM
Maybe he lied about his age when he joined Army ...Kidding ..but have known of it being done during WW11..there were 14 and 15 year old kids signing up ....heck I had hair on my face at 14 and could buy whiskey without being asked for an ID ...must be something in the grits ..lol

Serena
October 2, 2008, 03:30 PM
Scrat, thank you for the NPR link. It was lovely listening to Gen.(?) Howell.

B00SS
October 2, 2008, 03:45 PM
So I see three Confederates listed as having lived longer than Woolson, yet you only bothered to attempt to discredit two of the three. And the high road (pun intended) you took was to list an exposť by non other than The New York Times. Give me a break. I am not swayed. The fact that they are listed perhaps bolsters my case more than your own.

Is there common ground? You bet. Paying tribute to the brave soldiers who helped form what we are today, be that for the good or bad. These brave men stepped forth in a way that so many today could not possibly achieve.

To those Gray Ghosts of the past, I salute. You may do likewise for the boys in blue.

scrat
October 2, 2008, 04:32 PM
You dont get it. its not a contest of who lived longer. its about the truth of weather they were actually in the civil war. there were actually a few men that said they were confederate soldiers. Who knows maybe that was the thing to do in the 50's for old guys. You fail to see that this was something that a lot of men tried to do during the great depression to get pensions. I can come up with a lot more names on both the union and csa. However what remains is the facts that are verifiable and documented. but the fact remainds only 1 PLEASANT RIGGS CRUMP. Had verifiable documentation that proved without a doubt that he was in the confederate war. I am still researching information on Pleasant Riggs still trying to get an actual picture. Right now along with what is documented Pleasant Rigss is the last remaining soldier not water boy from the civil war. He is the last soldier to use the guns that we shoot today. As what was noted on the first and original post of this thread. A great man indeed. Weather CSA or Union dosent matter. This is about the men who fired black powder. Not the alleged men

Who knows maybe a few more men will come up today and say they are the last remaining CSA soldiers that fought in the civil war. Sorry i cant give you a break when one is not deserved.

I salute both men in blue and men in grey. UNBIASED

Water-Man
October 2, 2008, 04:51 PM
BOOSS...Hope you're joking but you sound like you have an attitude problem. Not the type of thing you would expect on this forum.

tiger rag
October 2, 2008, 10:39 PM
Point Taken and well stated scrat.

mgregg85
October 2, 2008, 11:28 PM
Everytime I think about the civil war it makes me sad that the valid issue of state's rights had to come to bear on the horrific issue of human slavery.

Elbert P . Suggins
October 3, 2008, 12:38 PM
After seeing the postings by BOOS, it is safe to say the war might still be going on in some parts of the country. When my wife and I went on our driving trip back East we stopped at Shiloh Battlefield and afterwards stopped a couple of miles down the road for refreshments. There were several guys sitting at the bar and when we came in they all turned around and looked at us and our car sitting outside. One said "You alls from Idaho I see. So you must be Northerners! So what did you do growing up in Idaho for entertainment?" I told him we hunted deer and went to school dances" and ask them "what they did while growing up at Shiloh"? He smiled and little bit and said "We used to go up there to that cemetary and dig up them Union boys"! I ask him if he was joking and he looked at me with a straight face and said "What else was there to do?" We left shortly after that and my wife said "Did you see the look on that older guys face, the one with no teeth"? "Yea, straight out of Deliverance wasn't it"? That incident stayed with us the whole trip to New York and back.

B00SS
October 3, 2008, 12:48 PM
I do get it Scrat. I just disagree with your conclusion. No need for attack. It is about truth. I just don’t see one NYT article as being the end all of the conversation. Even in your own post you list:

William Lundy (January 18, 1848?-September 1, 1957) of Alabama/Florida.

Even he would have lived longer than Woolson, but you still say Woolson is the oldest. Perhaps you posted something to refute that, I didn’t see it. Your sole "evidence" about Walter Williams is some New York Times smear-atorial. You seek to slander the gentleman from the South based on that article. Southern records were often not kept so well, particularly after the war. Perhaps neither is the oldest. Perhaps you will claim to be the oldest. (joking, don’t be up tight) Perhaps we will never know. I am only attempting to present the side of the coin that you choose to ignore.
Water-man, my apologies if I have offended you in some way. I guess my "attitude" is due to an attack on a man that history has honored. A man who is not here to defend himself. One who was paid homage by some of America’s greatest men and institutions. I have the utmost respect for Scrat's opines almost anywhere else on the board. We have one issue. Don't make to much of that. Perhaps in the end, we can only agree to disagree. I respect both your opinions, I just disagree. All research I have seen shows Williams’ birth year to be 1842. I’m not sure what “evidence” the Times reported, but they have a long up hill march to overcome all the others who found Williams to be authentic. That is the only point I am making.
Indeed, my opinion may be biased. But I did have ancestors who fought on both sides. I do tend to hold in highest esteem those gallant men in gray while making no disrespect for those who fought for the north. I have seen both sides of the argument. Perhaps you can show the same respect for my opinion as I will for yours, even if you disagree.
I make no apology for not going along with revisionist history. At least not based on the New York Times.

scrat
October 3, 2008, 12:48 PM
elbert

You should have driven an orange Dodge.

Never made sense to me. The General lee is an Orange Dodge what Charger. When General Lee rhode a White Mustang. hmmm maybe Ford should come out with the General Lee.

We used to go up there to that cemetary and dig up them Union boys"!

Being from california southern if it makes a difference. If they would have said that to me. I woulda said no shiiiiiiiieeeeet. Thats so cool i wanna do it.

sundance44s
October 3, 2008, 12:51 PM
Good lord the north vs south will never end ...sure would like to live to see it end ....It might... my kids grew up in the south and have no hard feeling about people in general at all ...they don`t even see color or feel where someone is from as a factor in people ..they only see good and bad in people ..refreshing to my old mind .

scrat
October 3, 2008, 12:56 PM
I do get it Scrat. I just disagree with your conclusion. No need for attack. It is about truth. I just donít see one NYT article as being the end all of the conversation. Even in your own post you list:

William Lundy (January 18, 1848?-September 1, 1957) of Alabama/Florida.

Even he would have lived longer than Woolson, but you still say Woolson is the oldest. Perhaps you posted something to refute that, I didnít see it. Your sole "evidence" about Walter Williams is some New York Times smear-atorial. You seek to slander the gentleman from the South based on that article. Southern records were often not kept so well, particularly after the war. Perhaps neither is the oldest. Perhaps you will claim to be the oldest. (joking, donít be up tight) Perhaps we will never know. I am only attempting to present the side of the coin that you choose to ignore.
Water-man, my apologies if I have offended you in some way. I guess my "attitude" is due to an attack on a man that history has honored. A man who is not here to defend himself. One who was paid homage by some of Americaís greatest men and institutions.
I have the utmost respect for Scrat's opines almost anywhere else on the board. We have one issue. Don't make to much of that. Perhaps in the end, we can only agree to disagree. I respect both your opinions, I just disagree. All research I have seen shows Williamsí birth year to be 1842. Iím not sure what ďevidenceĒ the Times reported, but they have a long up hill march to overcome all the others who found Williams to be authentic. That is the only point I am making.
Indeed, my opinion may be biased. But I did have ancestors who fought on both sides. I do tend to hold in highest esteem those gallant men in gray while making no disrespect for those who fought for the north. I have seen both sides of the argument. Perhaps you can show the same respect for my opinion as I will for yours, even if you disagree.
I make no apology for not going along with revisionist history. At least not based on the New York Times.

Oh i get it. Problem is now your discrediting Pleasant Crumps. Well it takes a long time to do the reasearch on this a long time. i have been attempting to locate relatives of Pleasant crumps. so far i have followed some old paths that have left me to no where. i know the name of a great granddaughter of Pleasant Crumps. I had an old email address that i found out wasnt valid. I guess i can also ad Walter Williams to my list. As for Albert Woolson that one i am leaving alone i have found other photos of him. They are on my other computer but records again still confirm that he is the last of the union army to have fought and used the guns that we use today. So its going to take a while. Lets keep this post alive but on the positive side so it doesnt get locked. Its pretty cool to research this stuff it just takes a long time.

B00SS
October 3, 2008, 01:39 PM
Scrat, no reason for a locked thread unless the admins are highly sensitive. And you know I said nothing to discredit Crumps, so I will overlook that. Only free thought going on here. No name calling, save my disrespect for the NYT, but they have no dog in the fight here. I'm just a fellow researcher and applaud what you have done. (again, even if we disagree) We have kept the topic lively, yet respectful. Please post up all the pictures you find! The actual photographs, especially during the war, add so much insight into our Great War.

Sundance44s, don't wish this wonderful history into oblivion. If the wounds are still a little fresh after only 143 years, then history is remembered. We could all bury our heads in our TV's and Ipods and forget it, but would we really be better off? I think it's somewhat amusing that South and North cannot even agree on what to call the war, much less particular battles. But with the institutions of learning today, it may all be for naught.

Scrat has come to his opinion from research, hard, deep research, it would appear. Keep up the research and the free thought. It is what makes Southerners and Northerners, "Americans!"

Elbert P . Suggins
October 3, 2008, 02:42 PM
Scrat, I have a confession to make. When those Rebs were telling me about digging up the Union Boys, I was thinking about getting even and telling them about my excavation experience when I was sixteen. I and two other boys had been listening to 96 year old Bill at the local watering hole talk about burying old Shady at the turn of the century. He had moved from Virginia to homestead out here and hadn't come into town for about 3 weeks to get supplies. They knew he had been suffering from venereal disease from the local cat house so they were concerned about him. They found him out there in the cabin and had been dead about 2 weeks in July. Bill said they rolled him in a blanket and buried him under the old Pine tree on the back side of the Johnson 40. One Sunday we grabbed the pick and shovels and headed out to the pine scab patch on the back 40 and found the sunken spot. We dug till dark and after 6 feet give up and 20 years later that story popped up at a little get together of friends and one guy said he and his friend had dug at that site 2 years earlier and brought him home in a gunny sack. I look back on it with no pride but am very happy we weren't succesful in our endeavours. We were just bored and looking for something to do. Kind of like throwing a lariat around the crapper and dragging it down mainstreet on Halloween nite or lighting a paper bag full of cow manure on the English teachers front porch, ringing the door bell, and watching her stomp out the fire out. Or my favorite, putting axle grease on the rope and watching the principal fall on his butt when he pulled it to ring the school bell. Those were the days when innocent fun was had but sometimes you got and deserved a good hard smack on the rear with the wooden paddle. Too bad you can't use that paddle today on some of these young inverts that wear their pants around their kneecaps and their hats sideways.

pohill
October 3, 2008, 04:34 PM
As has been said to me and a few others in the past who were "debating" various topics, "What the hell does this have to do with black powder shooting?"
I thought the original post was great, but let's not fight that war again.
Take it over here:
http://boards.historychannel.com/forum/Civil-War/100

Elbert P . Suggins
October 3, 2008, 05:11 PM
Sorry about that , but I forgot to interject the black powder part of the story. When ole Bill and the boys from town found Oscar Shady, he had used a black powder side by side 12 guage scatter gun to put him self out of misery. He evidently lost his head over the whole deal. Ole Bill's great grandson has still got that external hammered shotgun. It's looks almost like a coachgun that Shady or somebody else cut down. But anyway, thats the end of my story.

pohill
October 3, 2008, 05:43 PM
No, no, Elbert P . Suggins, I find your story and info great. I was referring to the North/South arguing, and even then I was kinda kidding. I've been "shut down" a few times while discussing an off-topic topic and this was my tongue in cheek juvenile attempt at revenge.

Elbert P . Suggins
October 3, 2008, 08:06 PM
Oh thats okay, Pohill, I didn't take it wrong anyway. I also thought Booss was gettin alittle edgy, I was just trying to lighten things up a bit with a true story that some people have a hard time believing. I got to thinking that Shady could have also been a Civil War veteran. But if he come out here in 1898 which I know was fact than he would have to have been born in at least 1845 which he would have homesteaded here when he was 53 years old. At that age he probably would have just stayed in Virginia. Most homesteaders out here were under forty. And old Bill said that when Shady would ride into town once a week he would visit The Jade Lantern, house of questionable females, every time. That's a bit much for a middle aged dirt farmer and he died in 1903. There were a couple of things we found in that grave that were left behind and that was a coffee can with long red hair and pieces of bone in it. And also his leather lace up shoes with bones rattling around in them and also leather suspender ends. This was evidently what was left after the "Black Powder" shot gun blast which sent him to a better life. You know, we did some crazy things when we were young and growing up and I'll put this one at the top of my list. I guess I can all blame it on the fact when you live on a dead end road and nothings goin on you just do some weird things to keep yourself entertained besides goin hunting and attending dances.

tiger rag
October 3, 2008, 10:39 PM
We may be kinda dim in the south and did not win the war . But the SEC owns the big pillow fight I mean big ten! Lighten up guys

scrat
May 28, 2009, 11:23 PM
the following footage is real. Its one of a few of that last known film of the original men that faught in the civil war. its from the gettysburg 75th anniversary. Notice you will see some of the men were carried in. this is where roosevelt presented the civil war monument

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgLUmiRLqW8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1byof4IAHk&NR=1

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