Gun show problem


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camoman33935
September 27, 2008, 10:32 PM
Well... i went to the local gunshow today (1st gunshow since I turned 18 in July) and I found a a beautiful Remington 742 Woodsmaster in 30/06 for $375. I told the guy behind the table that i would take it and he sent me off to do the paperwork. I finished the paperwork and waited for ten minutes while the lady doing background checks was finsihing up with previous customers. She took my paperwork and proceeded to do my background check. She then tells me that i have some type of arrest on my background:cuss:. now I did somethings a couple of years ago and did get a charge on my record but i did the community service and was told that it would be erased off my record and never show up on a background check for anything. SO... needless to say I told the lady to forget it and left (not to mention they bent the hell outta my drivers license)..... now on monday i have to get things sorted out so that it will actually be erased. This chain of events led to a pretty bad day at the show. Man.... and I really wanted that woodsmaster too.

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Eric F
September 27, 2008, 10:37 PM
wow tough luck on that. Was it some sort of state form holding you up? I have not purchased lately so I am unfamiliar with any questions on the form now, but the federal form should have been ok if the charge was not a felony. If you have a business card from the folks you might still land that gun any way.

F4GIB
September 27, 2008, 10:44 PM
I've recently been through this with a client.

The FBI's new NICS procedure is to "speculate and ASSume" that
(1) every arrest results in a conviction [no basis in the law for this] and
(2) every assault is a DV assault [no basis in law for this either].

They just "guess" that the applicant must be disqualified.

They will back down eventually since the burden is on them to establish a disqualifying conviction actually exists but it's a fight.

JD0608
September 27, 2008, 11:02 PM
did the dealer give you the info where you can call the FBI and see why you were denied. it may not even be from your old charges, could be your name was mixed up with another guy. i`ve seen it happen before. when your denied, the dealer is only told no he dosen`t get a why. he should have given you a booklet with contact numbers and the transaction number gave to him by the FBI for your form. the FBI would then give you the details..

45Badger
September 27, 2008, 11:08 PM
They saved you a bit. 742s were nice guns in their day, but you can do much better today. Replacement parts are becoming a PIA, and that price for one is a bit high. There, don't ya feel better?

Seriously, that must stink. Get your affairs in order and then get yourself a decent 30-06.

loosecannon
September 27, 2008, 11:19 PM
When I worked as a jailer who also booked inmates, I learned that a person's criminal history shows arrests and charges even if the charges are later dropped or if the person is acquitted. This statement also applies to adjudicated convictions. You never lose the paper trail. I know the definition of "expunged", but I do not believe it happens--even though your lawyer may tell you so.

Furthermore, when we received a prisoner's criminal history, the print-out also included juvenile records which many people think are sealed. In the strictest sense of the word, that's b.s. too.

These comments apply to the more serious misdemeanors and all felony arrests and/or convictions including adjudications. I worked in a rural Texas jail which had access to Big Brother's computer which knows all and can hook up with Interpol and get the same info on a Dutchman, Englishman, Italian, or other European who might be arrested and jailed in Podunk, USA.

mio
September 27, 2008, 11:26 PM
wow background check at a gunshow? when did they start doing that?

maybe somebody should tell our presidential candidates about this so they dont waste thier time and our money trying to "close the gun show loophole"

camoman33935
September 28, 2008, 02:48 AM
nah... They didn't give me any info on how to go about getting this sorted out and the reason for the background check was it was an FFL dealer

Steve Raacke
September 28, 2008, 03:02 AM
It's similar to what happens when a person joins a Volunteer Fire department here and takes the medical First Responder class. The instructor gives you a form to fill out for your state certification which goes to the Department of EMS. One of the questions is "Have you ever been arrested?" Not convicted or sentenced, arrested. If you answer "YES" then you have to get some sort of notorised paperwork from the police department saying that you have been cleared or that you are no longer on probation or serving any sort of community service. Every 2 years when you refresh you certification you have to go through the same thing all over again.

Deus Machina
September 28, 2008, 07:03 AM
I'll share some info from firsthand experience here. Bum arrest, bogus charges, and pre-trial intervention (like probation but charges dropped after completion, and that was an ordeal in itself) because a jury will listen to a ranting vice principle before the long-haired teenager.

An arrest will show up and cause problems more than three years down the road, even with charges dropped and after the court tells you it will be cleared. It won't, and you can safely assume everyone involved from that point on is feeding you bovine excrement.

Get it expunged. Even do the paperwork yourself, but get a lawyer--this is affordable, because it's just following a paper trail and yelling at everyone from point A to point B, to C, to D, back to B, to 27, back to D, etc. Doing the paperwork myself got me half price, but I had to get a lawyer.

Fight tooth and nail the whole way--the only way to get this taken care of is to make it easier to just sign the paper (seriously, it's just signatures!) than shove it off and forget about it. I actually had to tell the DA to her face that someone wasn't doing her job and note that I could have my defense lawyer look into it, and there was no good blood between the two of them.

And, by law (in FL, at least--IANAL) all agencies must destroy the paper trail, to be reopened ONLY by court order. Some law enforcement agencies still like to pretend the law doesn't apply to them. Aggressive lawyers are good.

Ahem. Yeah, I'm a little bitter. Excuse my ranting.

TL;DR version: search out a lawyer. A couple hours of work, a firm hand, a relatively small check to a lawyer, and a couple follow-up calls and it's taken care of. You may have to make a couple calls afterward, but I let my lawyer know I would only settle for dropping off the radar or enough heads on pikes to keep bands of highwaymen out of my town.

And keep receipts--it's still a lawyer.

But, all told, expungement took about a year--including the 6-8 monthes of the DA going "It's not here yet. It's here, waiting to be signed. Signed, waiting to be sent. Unsigned, unsent. It's signed and sent. Wait, it's unsigned, I'll get on that. We sent it last week--wait, it's right here...
But a week after I got my final paperwork, I bought my first pistol. No trouble any more, background checks think I'm a saint, and--as said in the final paperwork and the judge's own writing, unless I'm under oath or court order, I can legally deny ever laying eyes on the back seat of a Crown Vic.

(Disclaimer: IANAL--check your laws)

Stryker60
September 28, 2008, 10:24 AM
"...as said in the final paperwork and the judge's own writing, unless I'm under oath or court order, I can legally deny ever laying eyes on the back seat of a Crown Vic."

That's interesting. I have done probably two dozen expungements over the past 10 years, and every one provides that the petitioner can deny the arrest/conviction under oath, without penalty of perjury. Must be a quirk of state law.

James

macadore
September 28, 2008, 10:42 AM
One of the questions is "Have you ever been arrested?"

I was under the impression that was a violation of federal law.

Deus Machina
September 28, 2008, 08:15 PM
That's interesting. I have done probably two dozen expungements over the past 10 years, and every one provides that the petitioner can deny the arrest/conviction under oath, without penalty of perjury. Must be a quirk of state law.

It seems likely. The paperwork is a little vague on it, the lawyer says I can, the judge says I can't.

State law or another case of "I'm in charge so I'm right"?

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