Practical Differences Between .30-06, .308?


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Skunkabilly
September 10, 2003, 07:41 PM
Since I will be taking delivery on my first .30-06 rifle and my second rifle, what are the practical differences between the .30-06 and the .308 that I have been shooting? Will I even notice a difference? Should I expect the same ballistic performance?

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SodaPop
September 10, 2003, 08:26 PM
The 308 can be more accurate since the gun powder tends to burn more consistently due to the case design (its fat and stubby).

The 30/06 has a longer case, and depending how the powder lays in the case, it can burn inconsitantly. I believe someone on TFL told me the guys that shoot Garands, in Hi-Power, are aware of this and point the gun upwards before aiming. Maybe it was Steve Smith???


The 30/06 handles bulllets better from 180gr on up. Most people rarely hunt with anything larger than 180gr, so, there is rarely a difference.

I reload 200gr Sierra HPBT in my '06 and it makes a world of a difference for long range shooting. I doubt most 308 rifles would shoot as well with the 200gr bullets I use.



Basically, its this................ you can pack more slow burning gun powder in an '06 than you can in a .308. When the case is full on a .308, the '06 can still take more.

Edward429451
September 10, 2003, 08:53 PM
I've had both and prefer the 308 over the /06 simply b/c it is cheaper to reload for, less recoil and less noise. The advantage of 150 to 200 fps in velocity that the /06 has over the 308 is moot for my intended uses and ranges. Nothing I could shoot inside of 300 yds would know the difference, and the /06 can do nothing the 308 can't at realistic ranges.

I don't think there are any practical differences, just preference.

P95Carry
September 10, 2003, 09:27 PM
Well, the 30-06 of course does have the edge re velocity and thus energy but ..... all I have come across re opinions on this, suggests that the same bullet will perform better from .308 ..... seems to suit better.

The other point . already made ........ is that that ''edge'' is seldom needed ...... as far as deer go round here .. it'll be 75 yds commonly or closer and rarely out beyond 150 yds .... so .308 cuts it just fine.

Art Eatman
September 10, 2003, 09:51 PM
Yeah, for 150-grain factory ammo, there ain't enough difference to worry about. A handloader, and particularly with a longer-barrelled rifle, can get a distinct advantage with the '06.

The short action of a .308 is stiffer, giving a slight edge on accuracy. As mentioned above, the powder burn can be more consistent, which also helps a target shooter.

Bambi will never notice the difference at the usual hunting-shot distances.

Art

PS: Skunk, use the "Search" feature, fer cryin' out loud! Long as you been around? Hey, we've gone through this a dozen times, this year! :D

C.R.Sam
September 10, 2003, 09:59 PM
All of the above.

Took me a long time to accept the .308 as a battle rifle cartridge.
But I am there now.

Sam

sanchezero
September 10, 2003, 10:26 PM
http://snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.htm

I have no idea how accurate this is, but I submit it for review.

Me, I'm down with the .308.

SodaPop
September 11, 2003, 12:07 AM
Did we use the same bullet in the M1 Garand as we did in the M14?



Took me a long time to accept the .308 as a battle rifle cartridge.

From what? The 45/70???:D


Sorry..... I couldn't resist.......:neener:

Skunkabilly
September 11, 2003, 02:19 AM
PS: Skunk, use the "Search" feature, fer cryin' out loud! Long as you been around? Hey, we've gone through this a dozen times, this year!

I know for some reason I thought I asked this before but ran a search for .30-06 and didn't come up with that specific question...maybe I brain farted when I clickied something or didn't put the dash, or something! :uhoh: :o

Swampy
September 11, 2003, 07:41 AM
SodaPop wrote:

Did we use the same bullet in the M1 Garand as we did in the M14?


No.

The 30-06 M2 ball load has a 150 gr. FMJ flat base.
The 7.62 Nato M80 ball load uses a 147 gr. FMJ boat tail.

The ogive on the two bullets is very different too.

Best regards,
Swampy

stevelyn
September 11, 2003, 08:59 AM
On critters in the field you won't find any practical difference and neither will they. However the .30-06 has the advantage of the having the availability of more factory loads than the .308.

Skunkabilly
September 11, 2003, 12:12 PM
Great...some people were trying to scare me telling me that the .30-06 is gonna thump the heck out of me.

Accuracy isn't as much of an issue since I've never out-shot a gun before...is there any more felt recoil or is that more a matter of the weapon system?

Steve Smith
September 11, 2003, 12:21 PM
Soda, I didn't say that. None of the competitors I know have light enough loads to warrant "pointing the muzzle up."

DMK
September 11, 2003, 12:38 PM
The 30-06 M2 ball load has a 150 gr. FMJ flat base.
The 7.62 Nato M80 ball load uses a 147 gr. FMJ boat tail.
Hmm, wouldn't the boat tail of the M80 offer some accuracy improvement over M2?

Mute
September 11, 2003, 12:58 PM
Great...some people were trying to scare me telling me that the .30-06 is gonna thump the heck out of me.

Accuracy isn't as much of an issue since I've never out-shot a gun before...is there any more felt recoil or is that more a matter of the weapon system?

The 30-06 will recoil more, but it's hardly punishing. However, I don't find a .375 H&H to be particularly bad. Anyways, the 30-06 will have an advantage if you need to shoot heavier bullets, other than that, I really don't see a big advantage. Disadvantages does include, slightly more recoil and the need to use a long action. I would go 30-06 if I only can get one rifle and need one that can take medium-large to large game. Otherwise, .308 for me. Everytime.

Delmar
September 11, 2003, 01:05 PM
IIRC, some GI snipers used the M2 AP round for the 30-06 because it was a boat tail, somewhere around 170 grains because the heavier bullet carried distance better, and the boat tail helps at long shots too.

Edward429451
September 11, 2003, 02:39 PM
Great...some people were trying to scare me telling me that the .30-06 is gonna thump the heck out of me.

Thats the weird thing about the /06, some describe it as a butt kicker and some don't. I think it recoils more than a 308 but is in no way unmanageable. Its the extra noise that bothers me. It certainly recoils less than a 12 ga with slugs (180's which is the heaviest I ever went.)

Suck it up tight.

Nightcrawler
September 11, 2003, 02:40 PM
Its the extra noise that bothers me.

Heh. My FAL is the loudest gun I've ever shot, 'cause of the muzzle brake. My friend's muzzle-braked AK (7.62x39) was MUCH louder than my crowned-barreled .30-06 Remington self-loader.

Don't like brakes that much, resultantly.

VG
September 11, 2003, 03:12 PM
The 30-06 M2 ball load has a 150 gr. FMJ flat base.
The 7.62 Nato M80 ball load uses a 147 gr. FMJ boat tail.

30.06 Match ammo normally has a heavier boat-tailed bullet as well.
The Danish military 30.06 also has a boat-tail bullet, supposedly around 152 gr.
The M118 7.62 ammo is (I think) 173 gr and is used in sniper rifles. 7.62 M80 Ball has a 141 gr bullet.

Current commercial loads vary. The Federal NM ammo has a 168 gr Sierra Matchking bullet. Their Garand-safe American Eagle has a 150 gr boat-tail.
Federal makes both a 168 and 175 gr Match round for 7.62, while their AE is 150 gr boat-tail.

Hutch
September 11, 2003, 03:29 PM
As widely available to us gunnies as good .308 ammo is, there may come a time when you go afield and need to re-stock. In extremis, you're more likely to find .30-'06 on a mom-and-pop store's shelf in Nowheresville than you are .308. If that matters.

Skunkabilly
September 11, 2003, 04:47 PM
Really for some reason I thought .308 was a more common caliber?

Anyway I'll probably be shooting the light stuff, 150 grain or so.

SodaPop
September 11, 2003, 05:38 PM
Great...some people were trying to scare me telling me that the .30-06 is gonna thump the heck out of me.

Did they use the term, "kicks like a mule"??????????

I don't feel sore after shooting 150gr bullets all day. If I start shooting 180gr or 200gr I feel it at the end of the day.

Firing a 200gr 30/06 round is like firing an AR15 and FAL at the same time.

If you hold the gun right it doesn't hurt, but if you don't hold the gun right it'll retire your shoulder for the day.

Quintin Likely
September 11, 2003, 07:39 PM
'06 out of a hefty Garand is a cinch, recoil wise.

'06 out of a heavy barrel sni...er, "Tactical" rifle ain't that bad.

A sporter weight rifle, to me, in .30-06 or .308 is pretty brisk, neither are something I'd like to sit down at a bench with all day. I'm gonna guess that that SLB is gas operated? If so, that'll eat up some of the recoil. I've never handled or fired one myself, so YMMV of course. How much does that thing weigh?

Nightcrawler
September 11, 2003, 07:42 PM
Hey, Skunky, you can get 10 round mags for the SLB, yes?

Give us a detailed report when you finally get it.

Andrew Wyatt
September 11, 2003, 07:46 PM
you'll be shooting it out of a gas operated semi, so there will be a not insignificant bit of recoil attenuation there.


.30-06 recoils as much as .308, to me.

BigG
September 11, 2003, 08:15 PM
One Practical difference is the 30/06 dates back before they were putting rubber butt pads on rifles as a rule. A lot of those ole straight combed stocks have a deleterous effect on your cheekbone/shoulder subassemblies. In other words, the kick is magnified above what a properly stocked rifle like a modern 308/30/06.

Also, and VERY important. The 30/06 ain't TACTICAL - the 308 is. :neener:

Art Eatman
September 11, 2003, 11:09 PM
I dunno, BigG. Seems to me, "tactical" is whatever wins. I'd rather be walkin' away from the scene, not layin' there, lookin' purty--and dead.

:), Art

BigG
September 11, 2003, 11:13 PM
:neener:

Covey Rise
September 12, 2003, 01:46 AM
You can by Remington Accelerator Bullets that shoot 4000 fps, yeehaw, great for yotes and other fun illegal things.

Skunkabilly
September 12, 2003, 12:14 PM
All this 'slower burning case necking long action' stuff is black magic to me :confused:

I'm a 'press trigger, go bang' kinda guy :p

Yeah, Nightcrawler, the SLB in .30-06, 10 rounds of it. Very untactical looking. I already sold the M1A mags, but my friend's wife vetoed the order on the M1A. "But I want wood flooring, dear!" :rolleyes:

Art Eatman
September 12, 2003, 01:23 PM
Skunk, check out some of the discussions on this case-dimension issue and relative lengths of actions in the threads about the short magnum cartridges. We went into it at some length...

:), Art

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