[BHPshooter]

I have recently been thinking of the many choices for JHPs, and which you regard as the best. I'm not trolling, I'm just curious, as I would like to try a few other loads to compare with my favorite, the Hornady XTP.

Wes

[mgjohn]

I am a fan of the Federal Hydra-Shock.

[LeonCarr]

Speer Gold Dots first, Cor-Bon a close second. Honorable Mention goes to the Winchester White Box jacketed hollow points. Good performance, low price.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Marko Kloos]

I am partial to the Remington Golden Sabre and the Speer Gold Dot. If and when I can get my hands on it, I also like Federal's 9BPLE load for my HK P7M8.

[CZF]

Given the fact that the SENTRY +P is just too exotic
to carry (at least in this country) my first choice for
a mainstream defense load is the:

SPEER (30 miles from me) 124 gr Gold Dot +P.
Choice of NYPD and other agencies.

Some say it has equal stopping power of the
125 gr GD .357 SIG, if the 9mm doesn't have to
defeat any tactical barriers.

The 124 gr. GD is a good combination of
values for the for the modern 9 x19.

Stopping power, tactical penetration and
recoil/feed reliability.

I like the XTPs for Hunting. They (in 9mm) probably have
too much penetration for SD. The XTP was designed as
a 10mm bullet for the FBI to meet penetration
requirements.

One exception is the .380 XTP. With low velocity and
muzzle energy, i'll opt for deeper penetration. One
THR member that i know and trust his judgement-
carries the XTP in 9mm MAK.

Hornady has exceptional quality control, and i like
the fact that it is marketed as Custom Ammunition.

There are more good designs to choose from than
bad. I used to work with a guy who carried 9mm
Hardball and after a few shooting incidents to his
credit, would carry nothing else. Another went to
.45 +P after his rounds failed to reach a driver.

[New_comer]

I load a cocktail of Fiocchi 115 / 147 gr FMJHP's and 125 gr FMJ in my USP mags.


I'd upgrade to 127 gr Win Ranger Talons later. ;)


Come to think of it, how I wish to get my hands on a dozen of those RBCD rounds, just for the heck of it. :D

[Spackler]

Speer Gold Dot, 180 and 165gr in .40S&W and 124gr in 9x19.

[FJC]

I like the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P for 9mm.

In my .45's, I primarily use Remington Golden Sabers.

[DMK]

Golden Sabers in 230gr. 45ACP and 165gr. .40S&W. In 9mm I prefer 124gr. +P ProLoads with a Gold Dot payload.

[10-Ring]

I'm partial to the Hydra Shoks :D

[Redlg155]

For my two newest carry guns...

Speer 200grain Gold Dot +P out of my SA 1911 .45, 124gr +P out of a 9mm G26.

Good Shooting
Red

[P95Carry]

Been with HydraShoks for 38 and 45acp for some while but ... am keen to get some of the Corbon, I think ........ 'Powerball' ..... forget name ...... they have the ball in hollow and seem like the ideal to me ..... deals with clothing!!:evil:

[bad_dad_brad]

I second Federal Hydra Shocks. Good stuff. Expands well. Low recoil. Reasonably priced. I load my .38 SP101 and 9mm Glock and Kahr in said loads. Win Silvertips would be my second choice.

[JPM70535]

Since I seem to be alone in my choice, I'll just say the name and apply it to all calibers. "SILVERTIP'

In addition to BGs, they also work wonders with werewolves.

[David4516]

Another vote for the XTP

"One exception is the .380 XTP. With low velocity and
muzzle energy, i'll opt for deeper penetration. One
THR member that i know and trust his judgement-
carries the XTP in 9mm MAK."

I also carry a Makarov, and the XTP is by FAR the best round for it in my opinion...

[TheFrontRange]

230-grain JHPs for my .45 1911, 180-grainers for my .40 SIG P239, both of the Winchester USA-brand "white box" variety. I've also carried the Cor-Bon Pow'rBall for the .45.

[JohnKSa]

If it's made by Federal or Hornady, you won't go wrong.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I use Hydra-shocks for the .45. Get them 50 in a box from cheaper than dirt for a song. They get the job done. I like value because plinking is one thing, but practice shooting with what you plan to carry and use in a real situation is another. Expansion in a .45 is not a big issue.

In the 9mm, I like Gold Dots.

[sm]

Regardless of brand, my first priority is reliable everytime in said gun...anywhere from 300 - 1K rounds( usually my criteria is 1K) before I carry it in a CCW. I want it accurate too. Then I worry ( really I don't) about the other stuff...rely on shot placement. Gots STHP, WWJHP, "Exotic", LWSCHP, SXT...forget what else I have--whatever is handy and I know the particular gun will do priority 1 and 2 in that order...

I shoot dirt, mud , metal, wood, glass...critters...never ran across a Jelloman-don't test for them...

[Tamara]

Well, let's see... My .45 1911's all have Golden Sabers in them, 185gr +P, I think. My 10mm has 155gr Georgia Arms, the .38 Super has 125gr Cor-Bon. My 9mm has Federal 9BPLE, while the .25 has Gold Dots in the mag and a Glaser in the pipe. My revolvers have odd lots of various loadings; 158gr LSWC-HP +P, Hydrashoks, Golden Sabers, stuff like that, except the old Model 12, which has wadcutters in it.

I'm obviously not real dogmatic on this. ;)

[Blueduck]

I've been loading up with the Ranger's in 45 and 9mm. Buying them online from a fella selling them for less than local stores carry the "normal" defense ammo once you figure the Rangers come in 50 round boxes.

Both in 230 Grain 45, and especially 147 9mm had very good luck with accuracy, and both feed well in everything I've tried them in.

[ambidextrous1]

I carry a Government Model, and load with the 230 grain Golden Saber. If it's good enough for the FBI Hostage Rescue Teams, it's good enough for me.

Having said that, I acknowledge that the 185 grain JHP has a very good one-shot stop probability, and would not feel significantly disadvantaged if it became necessary to use that round.

Please, don't be offended, but this thread may be overlooking the idea that good shot placement contributes more to succes than use of a "superbullet".

[SirPorl]

Hydrashoks and Win Whitebox JHPs

[Rob96]

1911 is currently loaded with 165gr+p Corbon Pow'R Ball, but also have 230gr Rem. Golden Sabers on hand as well as Winchester 230gr JHP.

G19 is stoked with 124gr+p Gold Dots

Ruger 4"GP-100 for HD is loaded with 125gr +p 38spcl. Gold Dots. For carry it gets either 145gr Silvertips, 125gr Golden Sabers or 110gr Win. JHP

SP-101 currently is loaded with 125gr Golden Sabers.

[Skirmisher]

My 9mm and my .45 are both loaded with Federal EFMJ ammo. This ammo feeds well in both pistols and hits the same point of aim as my practice ammo.

[MikeJ]

40S&W - 165 grain Remington Golden Saber

9mm - 124 grain Speer Gold Dot

.38 - 125 grain Speer Gold Dot +P

These choices were made as the result of reading reviews and aren't based on any first-hand personal experience, thank goodness. I believe that the majority of top name brands are probably very close in effectiveness but these are the ones I have chosen to load up with. Best, Mike

[TonyB]

Carry gun:38+p+ federal jhp 110gr.
HD gun:9mm+p corbon 115gr
Back up HD gun:Win 9mm jhp 115gr

[Berg01]

In my P228 Sig, ProLoad 115gr +P JHPs; Win Whitebox 147 gr JHPs

[Dorrin79]

I keep the 230gr Winchester JHPs (the ones in the white boxes of 50) in my 1911.

Why?

Because it's almost as cheap as FMJ, and therefore I'll practice with it.

I keep my 9mms loaded with 124gr Federal Hydra-Shoks.

[denfoote]

9mm" Winchester USA 115gr Personal Protection.

.45ACP: Federal 230gr Hydroshoks.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

My standard recommendation regarding JHP's has
always been and continues to be Federal's "Hydra
Shok's".

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[stevelyn]

Speer Gold Dots in .40, 9mm, .380, Hydra-Shoks in .45.
I'm comfortable carrying either or in all of my handguns.

[OF]

My .45 (primary carry gun) spits Winchester RA45TP, the +P version of the Ranger Talon. The USP .40 (primary bedside gun) gets Pro-Load 180gr GoldDot and the Glock 29 10mm (alternate carry gun) gets ProLoad 180gr GoldDot.

If you want some research material, read the 'terminal ballistics' forum at tacticalforums.com

- Gabe

[E357]

I like the Speer Gold Dot line and because I reload I like it even more since I can buy the heads and make my own "practice" rounds that shoot to same point of aim and feed the same.

The Cor-Bon Pow'rBall for the .45 and the Winchester Ranger T line is very impressive.

Elliot

[coldshot03/04]

Remington Golden Sabers or what ever else is available.;)

[cordex]

Currently, 230g Hydra-shoks in the .45.

[Dr.Rob]

.357 mag: 158gr Federal Hyrdashock/158 gr gas checked lead swchp
9mm:115 gr Winchester Silvertip
.45 ACP: 230 gr Federal Hyrdashock
.380: 90 gr Federal Hydrashock/Remington 90 gr FMJ
.25: Fiocchi 50 gr FMJ
.44 mag: Ultramax 240gr lead "cowboy" load

[foghornl]

Rem 230-Gr Golden Sabres for the .45ACP's (KP-90 & 1911-A1)

158 Gr- Speer Golod Dots in the .357 Vaquero

110-Gr Fed "Personal Defense Load" in the .38Snubby

[Penforhire]

HydraShock, SXT, Gold Dot -- I rotate randomly and feel equally protected. If I could only buy one -- HydraShock

[Bladrian]

Not sure what the appropriate powder will be in the States - but for what it's worth, here in South Africa a self-defense situation quite frequently requires that somebody gets reached out to and touched in a vehicle; and for penetration you're always going to need speed. The more the better.

My carry gun is a Beretta Mod92 9x19, so I started with the Speer 88gn JHP for the .380 Auto. Eventually got up to 6.5 gn of MP200, a local, fairly slow-burning pistol powder. No signs of pressure - no cratered primers, no spreading of the case base - but it ran at an average 1700 fps over a chrono. Happy with that, I took my loads to an auto graveyard. 100% penetration every time, no matter what angle, or what hardware was still inside the door. They didn't always track straight, but often enough for me to be sure of getting at least a seriously incapacitating wound 9 times out of 10.

Best of all - since the cavity in that bullet is larger than 1/2 calibre, I felt pretty sure it would expand in soft tissue. The first round I fired into clean dry sand produced a flat projectile, about 18mm in diameter ...... good enough. I didn't bother to fire a second shot.

Finally - the round feeds perfectly in the 92, but I haven't tried them in a weapon with a steep feed ramp. The overall length is shorter than the std 9x19 round, so a Browning-type ramp might present a problem with smokestacks.

[yzguy]

124 Gr +P Golden Sabers in 9mm

[Jason Demond]

I find Gold Dot's work the best in my guns. I carry 124gr+P (9mm) Gold Dot's in my carry gun.

[BryanP]

Golden Sabres in .45ACP for my Sig P220.

Golden Sabres in .38+P for my wife's Taurus 617S

Golden Sabres in .357 for the Taurus 66 and the Marlin 1894C.

Yeah, I'm partial to the Sabre, but I'm always open to suggestions.

[tbeb]

.32 ACP--Win. Silvertip, Corbon, Speer.
.380 ACP--Fed. Hydra-Shok, Win. Silvertip.
.38 special--Win. or Fed. 158 gr. lead hollowpoint, Fed. 125 gr. Hi-Shok
9mm--std. press. Federal 115 gr.
.357 magnum--Win. Silvertip, Win. USA.
.45 ACP--Fed. Hydra-Shok

[Johnny Guest]

Speer GDHP - -
In .45 ACP, 230
In .40 S&W, 180
In 9 x 19, 124

Fed HydraShok 158 or Rem 158 in .357 mag.

In .38 SPL, I'm not really as fond of any JHP as of the 158 LSWCHP+P Remington. If forced to a choice, I'd probably go with the GDHP - -What is that one, 125 or 129 gr?

In .45 Colt or .44 Spl, I'll just stick with LSWC, thank you.

Best,
Johnny

[Al Thompson]

Bladrian - welcome to THR!

I use gold dots myself - 9mm or .45.

[J.BELLINO]

.38SPL.....125GN. FED. NYCLAD
.40S&W....135GN. CORBON
.32ACP......WINNEY SILVERTIPS
45 L COLT....200GN. CORBON

[Tamara]

Ya know, the older I get, the more it boils down to three questions:

1) Does it work in the gun?
2) Can you hit what you're aiming at?
3) Is there a small chance that it will expand?

If I can answer "yes" to all three of these questions, then I'm completely cool with it. ;)

[sm]

Tamara...your right...I looked at my CCW and for two days I've been carrying Fiocchi FMJ...checked various mags loaded up and you name it...I seem to have a mag loaded up with it...including "flying ashtrays".

Sheesh, I really don't worry stuff anymore--guess that's why I got a letter today "Steve ...according to records your DL expired back in April...come see us at your convience...no retest/no penalty..."
Age- sheesh, I'm gonna be real good in another 10 years...:p

At least the darn CCW was loaded...:D

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Mine are listed below:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/SelfProtectionLoads.htm

Best.

[Kcustom45]

Yet another Federal Hydra-Shok user. I use them exclusively in my .45, and I prefer the 230gr load. I will continue to use them until something else comes along that I feel is better.

[Bladrian]

Al - thank you for the welcome, sir. And that's a great name for a gun enthusiast to have .... :) I had the privelege of possessing eight 1941 M1 Thompsons (stick mags) for a while - it was a real pleasure to shoot them.

Stephen Camp - a highly interesting site you have there. A most enjoyable browse.

[1goodshot]

Gold dots are my favorite in any caliber

[geekWithA.45]

Super reliable expansion, no additional NJ legal problems, feeds wonderfully, same impact point as practice ammo, not terribly expensive.

My second choice would be powerball, which seems to have slightly better ballistics in .45, and similarly avoids NJ HP legal nonsense.

[DigMe]

EFMJ!

Super reliable expansion



Really? I posted this pic in another forum. Not the end-all be-all but it seems to indicate less than reliable expansion from the EFMJ:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/docgkr/myhomepage/EFMJ.jpg

brad cook

[Mannlicher]

I try to shoot, and test different rounds before I use them for CCW. I look for accuracy, reliablilty, and performance in various tests I use.

for my .45ACP guns, I like Fed 230 grain HydroShock
for the .45 Colt revolvers, I like the CorBon 200 grain JHP
in .44 Mag, for CCW, I go with CoreBon 165gr JHP
in .357, I prefer my hand loads, Speer 146 grain JHP over Unique Powder
in .38 Special, I am partial to the 125 grain NyClad
in 9mm Lugar, the 124 grain HydroShock, and in .40S&W, the 180 grain HydroShock.

[Pumpkinheaver]

165 hydra shoks in my .45acp.

[Sean Smith]

9x19: Winchester RA9TA 127gr +P+
.45 ACP: Remington Golden Saber 230gr
10mm: Pro Load 155gr Gold Dots

[Slow]

I am rather fond of the new Speer GD 250 gr. .45 Colt, but also like Hornady's 250 gr. offering as well in my handloads.

[who me]

I use Georgia Arms shear power plus which uses gold dot bullets.

[Lennyjoe]

Black Hills 124 gr +P in my G19. 1250fps at 430ft lbs of energy. Black Hills uses the infamous Speer Gold Dot JHP

Speer Gold Dot JHP 165 Gr. in my Taurus PT100AFS. 1150 fps @485ft lbs.

I am kinda partial to Gold Dots due to the performance reports that I have read.

Have used Cor-bon, Hydrashotcks and Gold Sabers in the past.

Accidently put a Gold Saber 38 +P thru a wall and cubbard at home (ND) and the bullet never deformed. Thank God no one was home but me. Lessons learned:o

[Johnny Guest]

Actually, I believe any one of several 230 JHP loads would work fine in .45 ACP. For that matter, I'd not feel too handicapped with 230 FMJ, if that's all that was available.

My agency happens to issue Speer Gold Dot HP, though, mainly for liability reasons, to avoid ricochets and penetration-beyond-target. Since this is a perfectly servicable round, I use it in .45 ACP, 9 x 19mm, and .40 S&W. I can draw two boxes per year, and tend to shoot mostly handloads in practice. As I believe that a serious social dispute is resolved more by proper placement than any particular magic projectile, I'm content to use the ammo they provide. (Hey, I pay taxes, too.:D)

In other calibers, though, I prefer the loads I indicated above, and purchase them at my own expense (after obtaining approval.)

Best,
Johnny

[Zach S]

230gr Hyrda-shocks for my .45s, and, well, .45 is all I carry...

[glockten]

.357 Magnum: Remington 125gr SJHP.

10mm: Cor-Bon 135 & 150gr JHP.

.44 Special: PMC 180gr JHP & Winchester 200gr Silvertip.

.45ACP: Remington 185gr Golden Saber & Federal 230gr Hydra-Shok.

.45 Colt: Federal 225gr SWC-HP.

[bpisler]

What i use depends on the gun
S&W 2" 15-3,black hills 38spl 125gr +P,gold dot bullets
S&W 3" 24-3,200gr 44spl blazer gold dots
S&W 3" 65-3,150gr 357mag starfires
Ruger 2.75" security 6,357mag starfires
Tauraus 650,same black hills 38spl as above
Ruger KP-95DC,black hills 124gr 9mm +P or 124gr golden sabres +P's.

[TheeBadOne]

9 mm 115 gr Cor-bon

.40 S&W 135 gr Cor-bon primary/180 gr Hydra-shok secondary

.45 ACP 230 gr Hydra-shok

[355sigfan]

I like Ranger T followed by Golden Sabres and Gold Dots. Hydra shocks plug way too much up here and become expensive ball ammo. XTP are about the same. Although they are a good hunting bullet in the mag revolvers.
Pat

[Erik Jensen]

124gr. Speer Gold Dots in the Beretta, 165gr. Remington Golden Sabres in the Kahr MK40. the Gold Dots didn't feed right in my Kahr when I tried them. the ogive of the bullet was tapping the slide stop, causing the slide to lock back in the middle of the magazine. granted, that was before the pistol was fully broken in, but until I try a few boxes of them without failure, I don't trust them to work reliably. nothing wrong with the bullet, just a minor altercation between the gun and bullet. :p









Erik Jensen: giving more information than necessary since 1975:neener:

[OEF_VET]

Hydra-Shoks in all of my CCW guns.

For awhile, my future FIL had loaned me his Glock 22, along with a box of Black Talons to use in the gun. I normally stoked it with Hydra-Shocks though. I couldn't see shooting a box of ammo that was as valuable as Black Talons. I took the box to a gunshow once and was told by one of the dealers there that the box could be sold for as much as $75.00. That seemed amazing to me, since the Ranger SXT is the same round. Apparently, Winchester stopped marketing them under the Black Talon name soon after they started selling them in .40, so an unfired box of .40 S&W Black Talons is fairly uncommon. He said that while Winchester voluntarily stopped using the Black Talon name, there are people out there who, for whatever reason, see them as collector's items. Far be it for me to sell something that was loaned to me, even if he would have been cool with me using it.

Some people are just crazy. Anyone who would pay $75 for 20 rounds of ammo, when they can get the same bullets under a different name, for a fraction of the price, is mentally challenged. Especially when the box has the original price tag of $11.99 still on it.

Frank

[Country Boy]

I've heard so many rumors/stories about problems with Federal Hydra-Shoks that I'm in process of switching over to Speer Gold Dots. I can't say that I've ever heard of problems, expansion or otherwise, with Gold Dots.

[9 m&m]

9mm 124 gr. +p+ hydra-shoks, 124 gr. +p Gold Dots and 124 gr. +p Cor-Bons.






(I kinda like 124 gr. in 9mm :D .)

[riverdog]

Gold Dots from either Pro Load or Black Hills.

[Pylon]

I keep Winchester XST's 147grain in my SigP226. I use them because of they have a nice conical shape that would favor feeding better.

I shoot them accuractely, and they are a hell of a lot cheaper then the Winchester Silvertips so i can practice with them more. Anyways, thats me :)

-Pylon

[benEzra]

Cor-Bon 115gr JHP +P in a S&W 3913LS.

[arinvolvo]

Speer +p 9mm 124grain

[williegee]

9mm- 115 gr. Winchester Silvertips
.38 Special- 129 gr. +P Federal Hydra-Shoks
.357 Magnum- 110 gr. Winchester JHP

[mountainclmbr]

For my 3.5 inch 45 I have done much testing and found that some rounds like the Golden Saber 185 +P or any of the Cor Bons has a great deal of muzzle flash. The Speer 200 +P is my choice for now, good accuracy, good power and low flash.

For my 3 inch 40 cal nothing seems to produce much muzzle flash. My choice for now is 155 Speer Gold Dots.

For my Charter Arms 44 spl house gun I currently use 165 Cor Bons, but may switch to Federal 200 lead SWC HP.

[Chip Dixon]

Corbon 45ACP+P 185gr JHP is my favorite choice when it comes to JHPs.

[cratz2]

Well, in 45ACP and 357, I'm more open to pretty much whatever's there... Prefer at least 200 grains in 45ACP and I just feel better with 230 Gr... standard pressure Golden Sabers, Rangers in 230 or 200 Gr +P Gold Dots from any of the major mail order shops. For 357 Magnum, I tend to go towards the 158 Gr loads... either LSWCSPs or LSWCHPs. Most recently, we've lived in a country setting and over penetration isn't as much a concern. But as I said, I feel pretty confident in the 357 Magnum with any reasonable load... 125 Gr and up... soft points, traditional HPs or modern expanding hollow points.

In 40, I haven't really tried much other than 165 Gr Gold Dots other than whatever is cheap... WWB FMJ and HPs and a few other odds and ends.

38... Glasers, 125 Gr Gold Dots, Nyclad when they were easy to get. Anxious to play with the new snub load Gold Dots coming from Speer.

32ACP, Gold Dots, Corbons or FMJ.

9mm Mak, Barnaul... very cheap, completely reliable and seem to expand quite nicely.

In 9mm, I'm a bit pickier, but there are several loads I have enough faith in to carry... 124 Gr +P Gold Dots, 115 or 124 Gr CorBons (more in summer), 127 or 147 Gr Rangers. I've tried the Golden Sabers and I would feel confident in carrying them, I haven't bought any in several years for 9mm...

When I first started carrying (a 1911 of course) I relied on HydraShoks, probably because of Evan Marshall than anything else... And the fact that several police agencies issued them, again largely due to Mr Marshall. My general take on HydraShoks - in 45ACP - is this: Thye seemed to do a good job for a long time until the newer upstart ballistics places started up and they seem to show that they don't tend to expand as reliably as other choices. A 45 doesn't really need to expand. I'd feel confident in carrying FMJ in a 1911, so I'd feel equally confident in HydraShoks. But I have more faith in other loads which is why I lean towards them.

[Series 70]

230 gr Hydra-Shoks for the 1911, 129 gr +p Hydra-Shoks for the 442. I'd have to double-check, but I think the Python is loaded with 125 gr golden sabers.

The wife carries 129 gr +p Hydra-Shoks in her model 60LS, even though it's chambered for .357. She says the full-house magnum loads are a bit much. I don't think she practices with 'em enough.

Sounds like a good reason to hit the range.

[LynnMassGuy]

Federal Hydra-Shock

[Marshall]

I use Winchester 165gr SXT's in .40 S&W.

I use Winchester 200gr Silvertips in .44 Special

[YammyMonkey]

Only have .45 ACP defensive guns, Remington 230gr Golden Sabers are the primary choice, Speer 230gr Gold Dots are second, mainly because there's a greater supply of the GS around here, so I've shot more of them through my guns and know they're reliable feeders.

[Ky Larry]

Winchester White Box 230 gr JHP's for my .45 Kimber.
Winchester Silver Tip 180 gr for my .40's.
Hydrashocks for my .38's and .357's.
CCI Stingers for my Beretta BUG.
Remington 12 ga 2 3/4 inch 00 buck shot for my Winchester 1300 for serious social work.
Hydrashocks for my 9mm's.

[clubsoda22]

All my pistols eat Ranger Talon.

[JeepDriver]

Currently

9mm = 124+p Gold Dot's

(however when I run out of them I think i'm going to switch to 127+P+ Rangers. The Rangers seem to be a bit easier and cheaper to find in the 50 round boxes )

45ACP = 230gr Rangers.

(again due to the cost and being able to get them in 50 round boxes vs the Gold Dot 20 round boxes)


I really have been happy with the Gold Dot's but they are marketed in those 20 round boxes for us civilians and they cost about $5 more per 50 then the Rangers do. And right now the Rangers are fairly easy to get so I'm switching over and stocking up.

[pale horse]

I roll my own.

1911A1's
230 grain Seirra Match JHP
I think its 5 or 6 grains of Unique
wlp primers

Or standard ball ammo.